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How can companies like Nintendo really combat scalpers and their bots?
- Thread starter PunjabiPlaya
- Start date
Barrel Cannon
Member
Make people answer a skill testing question.
Make the store price $10 than the pre-order price
Allocate a huge stock to stores, offer a bonus for buying it from a store over pre-ordering.
Make the store price $10 than the pre-order price
Allocate a huge stock to stores, offer a bonus for buying it from a store over pre-ordering.
This. It's easier than making more of them. Just produce what you do now and sell them for what people are obviously willing to pay. Nintendo is just leaving money on the table with these prices.
These things are already stupidly expensive here in Sweden ($190) but preorder quantities seem to be all gone.
SoundPulse
Banned
Inspiring confidence in their audience that they'll actually, realistically, be able to buy their products if they didn't wait up deep into the night for preorders to unexpectedly open up for a whole two seconds would be a nice start. Hyperbole, sure, but personally, I'd rather resign myself to simply not buying one than deal with these shenanigans anymore.
So why are people buying 3 just to flip 2 for insane prices on eBay.
Scalpers are arseholes.
The Illiterati
Member
I got one. I still think the process is total garbage. I was just randomly on Neogaf when the BB preorders went up. I didn't put any effort in, I got lucky. I'm glad I got one. But I still think Nintendo is a bunch of assholes for setting people up this way. They can and should do better.
The idea that producing enough to meet demand is impossible is another fallacy people are buying into.
The Maverick
Member
Insane that there's any segment of people that think Nintendo isn't 100% at fault here. This is the stupidest mismanagement of a system I've seen, and it was easily predictable. But hey, they just love leaving money on the table.
Okami Haundo
Member
I honestly think that posts like these have good intentions, but kind of ignore the reality of Nintendo's approach. If they wanted to combat scalpers, it's pretty clear that they have a number of options. The sad truth is that they honestly don't care about that second-hand market when the overall takeaway will be that people are thinking and talking about Nintendo products.
We can talk in our internet echo-chamber about how this is "bad press" for them, but that ignores the idea that "bad press" can still be good PR for your overall brand. It's literally a topic that we covered in "Marketing 101" in college...
We can talk in our internet echo-chamber about how this is "bad press" for them, but that ignores the idea that "bad press" can still be good PR for your overall brand. It's literally a topic that we covered in "Marketing 101" in college...
mullet2000
Member
There's limited supply and there's Nintendo limited supply.
The average person has no chance of getting on of these. Zero. You need to follow certain discord channels, twitter users, etc, have notifications on and be ready to jump and ANY minute to get one.
Hell I have scripts set up to alert me if product pages update. And I still couldn't get one!
The average person can't do/isn't going to do that sort of thing. Joe Shmoe who isn't dedicating his life to watching for the 100 second window to order one of these should still have a chance.
A lot of consoles have a tough first few months. Switch did, Wii did (hell a whole year), PS2 did, etc, but the thing is those weren't going out of print after those first few months...
The average person has no chance of getting on of these. Zero. You need to follow certain discord channels, twitter users, etc, have notifications on and be ready to jump and ANY minute to get one.
Hell I have scripts set up to alert me if product pages update. And I still couldn't get one!
The average person can't do/isn't going to do that sort of thing. Joe Shmoe who isn't dedicating his life to watching for the 100 second window to order one of these should still have a chance.
A lot of consoles have a tough first few months. Switch did, Wii did (hell a whole year), PS2 did, etc, but the thing is those weren't going out of print after those first few months...
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
this and open up pre-orders so it aint the usual shitshow they are known for
Omegasquash
Member
Bingo. Everyone wants an SNES Classic Mini. Brand recognition in the long term vs. short term sales. Their name is in your mouth, and they'll once again have one of, if not the, hottest item for the Christmas season.
I'm skeptical of that long term brand recognition working, but this is coming from someone who loved the GameCube and doesn't have too much bad to say about WiiU. So I guess it DOES work.
I agree that they're leaving money on the table, but this is also a company that has nearly $9 billion in cash. They're being dicks about it, but I suspect that the SNES Classic represents a drop in the bucket for them.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
Off the top of my head I'd say more first come first serve in the stores, probably done in waves with a limit of one per customer in the store. Some managers are more diligent than others.
I say that knowing damn well certain stores follow that more loosely than others as well. I don't think Nintendo is legally obligated to meet a certain demand on their own products though as suggested by the OP. I wouldn't say that they shouldn't have released the NES Classic or the SNES Classic either.
I think this whole thing goes beyond just Nintendo products though, I think something probably needs to be done legally with scalpers. Its become a problem for everything from gaming, to concert tickets, to shoes. The bottom line is scalpers want to be paid for doing very little work and are rewarded with huge profits (or we wouldn't have this thread)
Society doesn't like them, how many times have you ever heard standing in line for something, "I'm gonna sell this" probably never as these guys are probably somewhat on edge that they'll get shit kicked.
I dunno maybe you make it illegal to use bots to buy up mass quantities of a product online (although "policing the internet has worked out great for anyone who's tried it so far) impose fines if you're caught scalping? (don't you guys do this in the states already?) those are only suggestions if you're doing something legally about the problem that is scalping. Another route is places like eBay stop allowing sales on stuff like this (then again eBay doesn't hate money either)
I say that knowing damn well certain stores follow that more loosely than others as well. I don't think Nintendo is legally obligated to meet a certain demand on their own products though as suggested by the OP. I wouldn't say that they shouldn't have released the NES Classic or the SNES Classic either.
I think this whole thing goes beyond just Nintendo products though, I think something probably needs to be done legally with scalpers. Its become a problem for everything from gaming, to concert tickets, to shoes. The bottom line is scalpers want to be paid for doing very little work and are rewarded with huge profits (or we wouldn't have this thread)
Society doesn't like them, how many times have you ever heard standing in line for something, "I'm gonna sell this" probably never as these guys are probably somewhat on edge that they'll get shit kicked.
I dunno maybe you make it illegal to use bots to buy up mass quantities of a product online (although "policing the internet has worked out great for anyone who's tried it so far) impose fines if you're caught scalping? (don't you guys do this in the states already?) those are only suggestions if you're doing something legally about the problem that is scalping. Another route is places like eBay stop allowing sales on stuff like this (then again eBay doesn't hate money either)
Okami Haundo
Member
We'll never get this data, but I'd be really curious to see how much money Nintendo really makes off of each SNES Classic at the end of the day. I'm sure they aren't just barely breaking even or anything, but you'd think they'd produce the things indefinitely if they were as profitable as some people like to assume they are.
TheDeadHeroAlistair
Member
The first answer should obviously be to manufacture units to meet demand. However, that is ultimately not always possible. If too many units are produced before launch, then they have to pay for the warehouse space to store them. If they want to expand on production, then they need to allocate additional resources at the expense of manufacturing other products or they need to purchase additional resources. The first would hinder production of more long-term viable products like the Switch. The cost of the second would likely either lead to an increase in price for the SNES mini, or would end up being a loss for Nintendo. Something that's generally not good for business.
If the means of production cannot reasonably be increased to meet demand, then they need to work with retail partners in order to ensure consoles go to customers instead of scalpers. This can be done through contracts and policy implementation. Limit 1 or 2 per household policy, preorder must be paid in full at time of sale (not at time of pickup), and preorders cannot be cancelled. Mandate that retail partners cannot sell preorders online, unless it is for a limited time and at a random and unannounced time. They can also work with retailers to bend return policies for the SNES mini, by shortening return windows for unwanted product (with a restock fee implementation, of course) and by having the customers prove the product doesn't work in the case of faulty product. They could also implement a purchase window policy, wherein high-demand products can only be bought to the established limit every certain amount of days, like 90 or so, and returns of product would not reset the limit.
If they worked on the second option with retail partners in a general sense, they could potentially curb scalping practices on all of their products.
If the means of production cannot reasonably be increased to meet demand, then they need to work with retail partners in order to ensure consoles go to customers instead of scalpers. This can be done through contracts and policy implementation. Limit 1 or 2 per household policy, preorder must be paid in full at time of sale (not at time of pickup), and preorders cannot be cancelled. Mandate that retail partners cannot sell preorders online, unless it is for a limited time and at a random and unannounced time. They can also work with retailers to bend return policies for the SNES mini, by shortening return windows for unwanted product (with a restock fee implementation, of course) and by having the customers prove the product doesn't work in the case of faulty product. They could also implement a purchase window policy, wherein high-demand products can only be bought to the established limit every certain amount of days, like 90 or so, and returns of product would not reset the limit.
If they worked on the second option with retail partners in a general sense, they could potentially curb scalping practices on all of their products.
theclaw135
Banned
Personally I'm holding onto my belief in collusion. Something like the worst "scalpers" being Nintendo employees and shills incognito.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Nike does it several times a year, for items that sell in the same range (hundreds of thousands at $80-$200). They've essentially squashed the second hand market by releasing just enough product to create lines, but not enough for it to be profitable to buy dozens of pairs.
Apple's pre-order system is also one to emulate - everyone who orders a phone eventually gets one, so there's no need to buy secondhand unless you're desperate to have it day one.
Tawney Bomb
Member
They could start by caring.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Exactly. They likely don't. And even if the reason for the shortages is ineptitude as opposed to intentional, they still get the same byproduct: a crazed rush and hype around a Nintendo product. I just doubt they care, and there's no real consequences for them not caring.
bananafactory
Banned
Require a Nintendo ID login to order it and limit one per customer.
Manufacturer enough to fill the NID orders then ship the additional units to retailers for casual consumers
Manufacturer enough to fill the NID orders then ship the additional units to retailers for casual consumers
There've been a few mentions of a lottery system here. You just need one that works online, and can keep rolling as more product is manufactured. I posted about this in the other thread.
Mind you, this is a retailer solution. It assumes the apparent supply constraint.
Mind you, this is a retailer solution. It assumes the apparent supply constraint.
Temeculan3000
Member
Require a receipt of an original SNES purchase from 1990-1992 to buy one.
LizardKing
Member
I bet you guys wish now that Nintendo had stuck to no preorders for SNES classic. At least scalpers can't horde 30 of them with their bots when you have to show up at a store.
kunonabi
Member
You kidding? Scalpers are always happy to talk about thier methods, hauls, and profits when in line.
TheDeadHeroAlistair
Member
The First-sale Doctrine kind of makes this a thorny issue. An amendment would need to be made in order to define scalper-made purchases as either not lawful altogether (purchases of limited-quantity product with the intent to resell at a markup, or something along those lines), or to define them as waving any rights to ownership transfer with the exception of disposal. On the other hand, the issue could be brought to court and a judge could make a ruling on whether scalper-made purchases infringe on someone else's rights or that the sale isn't valid in some way.
Seeker_Zero
Neo Member
If the gaming industry wasn't so obsessed with preorders, scalpers would have a much harder time with these.
That's what it boils down to here. No preorders means that people have to actually show up in a store, rather than set up an army of bots, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of preorders are going to the scalpers at this point, to be honest.
Nintendo could have handled this better, sure... but there's more wrong with this than just their decisions alone.
That's what it boils down to here. No preorders means that people have to actually show up in a store, rather than set up an army of bots, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of preorders are going to the scalpers at this point, to be honest.
Nintendo could have handled this better, sure... but there's more wrong with this than just their decisions alone.
Shifty1897
Member
They could produce enough product that scalpers wouldn't be able to buy it all up. Also, they would make more money this way.
I realize why this not feasible but please let me live in a world where I don't pay $250 to some jerk on ebay for an SNES classic.
I realize why this not feasible but please let me live in a world where I don't pay $250 to some jerk on ebay for an SNES classic.
dragonyeuw
Member
Why would a company with 30 plus years handling countless system launches, not be at least 'adequate' as far as estimating demand? I mean, this is kind of what preorders are for but Nintendo can't even handle *that* correctly by the looks of it.
rackham
Banned
Wtf are you even saying?
bananafactory
Banned
I don't know what the number is but it's more than 5 units per store.
For most decent traffic stores I imagine you could still easily sell out 100 systems.
LOL at people actually trying to find ways beyond "make more". Nintendo is leaving money on the table.
Make shit nobody actually wants? I guess that's one way to beat scalpers.
dragonyeuw
Member
The lack of direct communication from Nintendo on preorders, blowing their wad early and causing a PR nightmare having to cancel preorders( Walmart a month ago), for a limited production item that probably earns them VERY little profit, earning the wrath( fair or otherwise) of customers who can't get a preorder because the thing sells out in seconds, a rush of paranoid customers calling all day long about availability, and they can't make any money on selling games for it beyond the initial sale. I mean how much are they making on each unit? $5 bucks?
I can't imagine this situation being worth it to retailers, other than it driving traffic to their stores.
For real lmao
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Make more, limit orders per customer, maybe open up preordering far in advance so you can gauge interest.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The things people are suggesting (outside of simply making more) are probably more trouble/resources than it's worth it for Nintendo for something like this. The SNES Mini is easy money for them. Why over complicate things?
Marty Chinn
Member
The problem is, we don't know how many pre-orders sold yesterday. We don't know if more pre-orders will open up between now and launch. We don't know how many additional units will be available at launch. We don't know how quickly, frequently, and how many units a restock will be. There's a lot of data and information here that nobody know to jump to the conclusion that Nintendo simply flubbed this again.
Plus, you know what else sold out and was unavailable for some time? PS3, PS4, PS4 Pro, PSVR, PS Aim Controller... Even Microsoft has sold out of Xbox One X. Are these companies inept too?
Amazon lasted twice as long as Best Buy and was available for 40 minutes. The fact that almost all retailers offered pre-orders alone was a step up over last time. See above in that we don't have any data to know what the numbers are that they sold in this period. Let's also not discount that among consumers/scalpers, there's also a heighten awareness this time around too along with the fact more people have discovered means on how to get notified when something is available compared to last time. Hell, you should see how dramatically Wario64's followers have jumped in numbers between a year ago and now.
Look, I'm not saying Nintendo can't do better, but we also don't know how much better they did than last time because we don't have data. I'm more attacking the notion that the solution is simple when it's a lot more nuanced than people give credit for.
shira
Member
NinjaBoiX
Member
lol, ok fella.
Straight Edge
Member
They should sell it at a price the market will bear, around $250 or so.
Temeculan3000
Member
You don't think this can be exploited
Require $5 to sign up for lottery, one entry per household and per credit card. Name on entry must match credit card and credit card address must match household address. Selected winners are automatically charged full price, no refunds.
$5 goes towards charity.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
lotteries are frequently manipulated by big scalpers that find ways to get a lot of entries. I've seen it in action in collectibles where lotteries happen
LegendofLex
Member
Well, we have to remember that NES Classic (in the US at least?) didn't even offer pre-orders. The idea was to have them appear in stores around holiday time for people to see one, buy it for themselves or as a gift, and remember how much they love Nintendo games. Pre-order culture is a pretty new thing.
Nintendo never intended for there to be a situation where everyone scrambled to get an NES Classic on day one, and that was rational because other retro consoles had come and gone without creating much of a craze, and their back catalog wasn't exactly creating mountains of cash if their digital revenues are any indication. They also didn't intend for there to be a situation where they use pre-orders to determine the number of units to make; they never expected this to be a product they'd need to manufacture beyond the holidays to meet demand, and I'm sure they didn't plan the release to go that way.
And they obviously don't intend for these to be long-term sustainable products that are always available. This is also rational - not everyone who purchases one of these is going to convert to their new products (love of Nintendo's old games does not always translate to love of their new ones), and so funneling lapsed gamers to these products that don't generate recurring revenue isn't necessarily a winning long-term strategy for Nintendo. Nintendo wants demand for Nintendo games to be funneled toward their new platforms where people will spend add'l money on games, so "satisfying the demand" by giving an NES Classic to everyone who wants one doesn't necessarily serve their business interests.
The problem, of course, is that Nintendo's been in the games business for more than 30 years, and their 30-year-old games are still pretty relevant and widely loved today. That's not something you can say for most other game companies, which is why you don't really see other game companies have this same level of success with products that focus on their back catalogs. Most of them don't even bother to focus on such products. So it's great that Nintendo's actually put out a product that's actually in demand, but obviously they weren't ready for this to be as big as it was and with Switch and SNES Classic in the pipeline there wasn't much room to pivot priorities.
What I wish they'd do is treat these more like the Disney vault, where Nintendo puts out a Nintendo Classics Mini console every holiday, makes it fairly widely available during the holidays, then puts production on moratorium and refreshes the line for next year, with the promise that the old products will go on sale again at a future point. The idea being that there'll be retro products available for every holiday, but Nintendo doesn't have to try to work out channels for all their retro products simultaneously. Doesn't necessarily have to be holidays - could be the spring/summer, too, if Nintendo wants to make sure their new consoles get the spotlight during the holidays.
But I'm also not sure if that'd work, or if there's really only one shot at building worthwhile demand for each of these platforms.
Nintendo never intended for there to be a situation where everyone scrambled to get an NES Classic on day one, and that was rational because other retro consoles had come and gone without creating much of a craze, and their back catalog wasn't exactly creating mountains of cash if their digital revenues are any indication. They also didn't intend for there to be a situation where they use pre-orders to determine the number of units to make; they never expected this to be a product they'd need to manufacture beyond the holidays to meet demand, and I'm sure they didn't plan the release to go that way.
And they obviously don't intend for these to be long-term sustainable products that are always available. This is also rational - not everyone who purchases one of these is going to convert to their new products (love of Nintendo's old games does not always translate to love of their new ones), and so funneling lapsed gamers to these products that don't generate recurring revenue isn't necessarily a winning long-term strategy for Nintendo. Nintendo wants demand for Nintendo games to be funneled toward their new platforms where people will spend add'l money on games, so "satisfying the demand" by giving an NES Classic to everyone who wants one doesn't necessarily serve their business interests.
The problem, of course, is that Nintendo's been in the games business for more than 30 years, and their 30-year-old games are still pretty relevant and widely loved today. That's not something you can say for most other game companies, which is why you don't really see other game companies have this same level of success with products that focus on their back catalogs. Most of them don't even bother to focus on such products. So it's great that Nintendo's actually put out a product that's actually in demand, but obviously they weren't ready for this to be as big as it was and with Switch and SNES Classic in the pipeline there wasn't much room to pivot priorities.
What I wish they'd do is treat these more like the Disney vault, where Nintendo puts out a Nintendo Classics Mini console every holiday, makes it fairly widely available during the holidays, then puts production on moratorium and refreshes the line for next year, with the promise that the old products will go on sale again at a future point. The idea being that there'll be retro products available for every holiday, but Nintendo doesn't have to try to work out channels for all their retro products simultaneously. Doesn't necessarily have to be holidays - could be the spring/summer, too, if Nintendo wants to make sure their new consoles get the spotlight during the holidays.
But I'm also not sure if that'd work, or if there's really only one shot at building worthwhile demand for each of these platforms.
Ninja Scooter
Member
And when you go to pick up your system you have to present 3 forms of ID, a copy of today's newspaper and be able to name 5 characters from Earthbound.
Temeculan3000
Member
Yup, and my earlier requirement that you need a launch SNES purchase receipt. Also the system requires a constant internet connection to play, and can only be enabled with the credit card used to purchase, if you bring it to a friends house it permanently bricks the system.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
Fair enough, maybe its different here but I've seen people grab 2 copies of something before but share they weren't a scalper or a reseller. People where I live just really tend to look down on that kinda thing.
Kaleinc
Banned
Next legislation you'd support would be 6 permitted haircuts?
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
you need to have an uncle working in nintendo to be able to buy one
CloudStrife_ca
Member
Either way I think its past due that a judge makes a ruling and a precedence is finally set for this kind of thing for all issues related to scalping.
I'm not a country music fan at all but recently Garth Brookes did like 18 shows in Edmonton where I live. He did this just to screw scalpers over so that buying up tickets and reselling didn't make sense because there was so many shows. He was here for like 2 weeks doing daily shows just to combat the issue of scalpers making it impossible for the average joe to see his show. Once again although I'm not a country fan, that was actually pretty awesome of that guy to come up with a solution for the growing problem of scalping.