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[Wowfunhappy]

Subjective - calories counts vary wildly by person. This count in google could actually lead to worse habits - i.e. "Google told me I burned 100 cals walking (when you actually only burned 20) I can have that extra cupcake!"

So does walking speed, but Google still shows an estimated arrival time. If you blindly trust the arrival time and leave too late for a super-important job interview because Google said you could, that's on you, not Google.

Making people aware of their calories isn't going to magically increase fitness, but the extra bit helps. I would argue that absence of this information leaves more potential for bad, because when that cookie looks super tempting, people will assume whatever they can to justify it.

 

[Painguy]

If a cupcake image bothers you enough to be upset, I think you have bigger issues.

 

[Phased]

Yeah those snowflakes with debilitating eating disorders! Fuck them amirite????

I think Snowflakes is a pretty harsh term to use, but most people should have learned early on that the world isn't going to change for them just because they are inconvenienced by something. That's a major part of being an adult, recognizing that you don't always get your way just because you don't like something.

If just seeing calories triggers somebody then that's a problem with them not the rest of the world. Having a debilitating eating disorder is horrible but expecting the world to accommodate you and your issues and not the other way around is not going to lead to a happy life.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I know. These are bogus concerns. Anyone who legit gets mad at cupcake iconography is beyond fragile.

The option to not turn it off is not a bogus concern...


I'm not going to bother with the cupcake thing (my contention was that it was pointlessly cutesy) since you're outright arguing fragility and snowflakes....

 

[_Ryo_]

Remove the cupcake thing. Leave the rest. To remove all of it is just ridiculous.

Should have opt in.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think Snowflakes is a pretty harsh term to use, but most people should have learned early on that the world isn't going to change for them just because they are inconvenienced by something. That's a major part of being an adult, recognizing that you don't always get your way just because you don't like something.

If just seeing calories triggers somebody then that's a problem with them not the rest of the world. Having a debilitating eating disorder is horrible but expecting the world to accommodate you and your issues and not the other way around is not going to lead to a happy life.

There is no need for calories to be a part of Google Maps without an option to turn it off... that's not demanding everyone else accommodate you, it's common sense.

You are not being inconvenienced because others want the option to not have it on.

 

[Horsemama1956]

I mean the simple solution is make it an option and make it not stupid and "cute" by talking about cupcakes.

People with eating disorder care big about this. People who count every single calorien. But they should just ignore it I guess, right? Its just a mental illness, its their fault to just not ignore it.

So these people don't go anywhere? They would see junk everywhere. This is just whiners complaining on the internet.

No doctor is going to tell everyone with beatings disorders they have to get anything resembling junk out of sight in the outside world.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So these people don't go anywhere? They would see junk everywhere. This is just whiners complaining on the internet.

No doctor is going to tell everyone with beatings disorders they have to get anything resembling junk out of sight in the outside world.

There's no inherent reason Google Maps need to have calorie displays without any option to turn it off....

Like you're upset that instead of doing that Google took it away... well bitch to Google because the solution was a toggle, and most of the criticism was in fact about the lack of a toggle.

 

[NastyBook]

1. You couldn't turn it off... that's the first issue
2. The cupcake is stupid... that's the second issue
3. It's not an integral part of Googlke Maps therefore there is zero reason it couldn't have been opt-in and less stupid.
4. Bright pink frosted cupcakes can easily be seen to have a gendered element to it...

#4 is a Dhalsim reach.

 

[Audioboxer]

If a cupcake image bothers you enough to be upset, I think you have bigger issues.

They should use a piece of fruit instead 🍇🍈🍉🍊🍋🍌🍍🍎🍏🍐🍑🍒🍓🥝🍅

Take your pick Google.

Semi-serious question but, I'm assuming the cupcake was a problem for some because it's associated with junk food and junk food is often associated with health concerns? As above, would people get as "mad" to quote that ladies tweet with a piece of fruit?

 

[nicoga3000]

Just showed this to my wife. We both agree that this is really really dumb. I just don't get how the picture triggers eating disorders or over-exercising. How do competitive people feel about Apple Watch exercise rings? Or runners who post their total miles ran?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Subjective - calories counts vary wildly by person.

Slightly inaccurate =/= subjective. Subjectivity deals with being influenced by opinions, thoughts and feelings. Google is simply using averages, which obviously means there are differences between people who aren't the average. But these types of estimates are used throughout the app anyway for time/cost of different travel options and people understand that so I don't know why this would be treated differently

 

[ChainedMaster]

This lady and gentlemen is why people make fun of safe places. And why the term special snowflakes is used.

 

[King Gilga]

lmao this is so dumb.

They should keep the calorie part and just remove the cupcake part.

Fuck add an opt out to prevent people from crying if you must.

People are ridiculous.

 

[TuckingFypo]

I didn't even know this was a thing, probably because I've only used the desktop version. I have a fitness tracker but it still sounds like a great feature!

 

[Chris R]

Should be added back as an option.

Also, nobody ever has to post stuff with trigger warnings since people who get triggered by stuff are just fragile people according to most posts in this thread. Good to know!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The option to not turn it off is not a bogus concern...

Yes it is. The information is easily ignored and doesn't get in the way. It's probably better to have the option to turn it off just for UI tidiness' sake, but it's certainly not something worth getting mad/offended over.

I'm not going to bother with the cupcake thing (my contention was that it was pointlessly cutesy) since you're outright arguing fragility and snowflakes....

So what if I am? The term "snowflake" is meant to be used to someone whose ego is so fragile they get upset at the smallest, most trivial petty shit. It's stupid when it's co-opted by nazis to describe anyone left of Thatcher, but absolutely applies here.

This lady and gentlemen is why people make fun of safe places. And why the term special snowflakes is used.

Pretty much.

 

[llien]

My main concern is how little does it take for a giant company serving billions of people to remove its features. What was that, a tweet with 500 likes? Putin laughs...

You do understand there's a difference between looking at the box of a food item, or the menu of the restaurant you're currently at, and your navigation app, right?

What's with all these fallacies in this thread?

If you're in a restaurant, reading the menu, you're already dealing with the context of food and nutrition.
If you just wanna know the fastest route to the next bookstore, you're not. To some the context of food and nutrition can be incredibly stressful, because they have a MENTAL DISORDER.

Actually it's you not being consistent about it. Who told you that I want to see calories "when dealing with the context of food"?

Context is "it is triggering people" since "there is no way to opt out". Why doesn't it apply to food you buy in supermarket or stuff you buy in restaurants? They, logically, also must make it "opt out", not to freak population 40% of which is obese. Who says you that you must know calories? If "it offends people" flies, restaurants should have menus with and without calories (or have calories column hidden by default.

 

[Henrar]

again THIS IS NOT ABOUT "FAT PEOPLE that don't wanna be reminded of how little they work out" - neither is it about people with a genetic predisposition to weight gain / loss.

This is about calorie counts being a trigger to people suffering from Anorexia - a widespread and severe mental disorder. Something that roughly 1-2% (depending on sources) of women and roughly .5% of men suffer at any point in their lives. Many of them - much like alcoholism - never fully recovering and always having a disturbed relationship to food, calories, their bodies and nutrition.
It's the third most common chronic disease among young people, after asthma and type 1 diabetes.

Anorexia has a mortality rate of up to 4%. (and that's with treatment. Without it's up to 20%)

Calorie counting apps are built in right now in almost every smartphone. Should we remove them, because some people have eating disorder?

 

[devilhawk]

It was this tweet that started the blowback.

https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/920076957735440384

One of her tweets contained this phrase said unironically:

perpetuating toxic diet culture

I could not find an instance of "Toxic diet culture" in a single scholarly journal - let alone a medical one. You google the term and all you get are psuedoscience garbage.

 

[Theodran]

Thanks Taylor Lorenz, for coercing Google to remove a feature that I would have used to make a bit of a fun game out of my long walks on weekends.

 

[Garou]

again THIS IS NOT ABOUT "FAT PEOPLE that don't wanna be reminded of how little they work out" - neither is it about people with a genetic predisposition to weight gain / loss.

This is about calorie counts being a trigger to people suffering from Anorexia - a widespread and severe mental disorder. Something that roughly 1-2% (depending on sources) of women and roughly .5% of men suffer at any point in their lives. Many of them - much like alcoholism - never fully recovering and always having a disturbed relationship to food, calories, their bodies and nutrition.
It's the third most common chronic disease among young people, after asthma and type 1 diabetes.

Anorexia has a mortality rate of up to 4%. (and that's with treatment. Without it's up to 20%)

I have trouble putting these two together, what is in your opinion the worst-case scenario in how this function could badly influence someone with Anorexia?

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

One of her tweets contained this phrase said unironically:
I could not find an instance of "Toxic diet culture" in a single scholarly journal - let alone a medical one. You google the term and all you get are psuedoscience garbage.

Try again:

I found this in like 30 seconds, so you obviously didn't look
Diet and eating disordered culture is definitely a thing, even if you don't want to believe it

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

If you want to track your calories while walking, get MFP or any one of the insane amount of exercise apps. I track my calories in apps that are tailored to my age/height/weight, not random info that google maps thinks the average person burns. It's inherently inaccurate.

Some people just don't want to be reminded about calories in an app that has nothing to do with calories. Like what about this is so hard to understand??

Sure, it can be useful I guess, and I get that some people would want that - so make it a toggle! That's literally all everyone's saying.

 

[KahooTs]

We are an embarrassing species on occasion.

 

[snail_maze]

I honestly do not understand so I'm probably missing something here, but how does a calorie counter trigger an eating disorder? Is it that people see how many calories they failed to burn by using a car and then try and make up for that with destructive eating habits?
I am also confused about the over-excercising comment, has there ever been a case of that with sth like Pokemon Go? As a very popular game which encourages walking I imagine that there would be a lot of reports about that if it were an actual thing

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

lmao how does a cupcake upset you of all things

guess random twitter person needed to make a mountain out of a ant hill

 

[HariKari]

Didn't know this was a feature but I'm legit sad it's gone, as I generally try to walk a good amount outside of work every day. Would have been interesting to map out some routes.

Are we at the point where we're going to shutter anything that offends the tiniest minority at the expense of utility to an order of magnitude more people? If it triggers you, can't you just not use the app?

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

It's not about cupcakes. It's about the intersection of incredibly common disordered eating and exercise habits being reinforced by an unavoidable reminder of them. Google Maps in not a diet app, it's a Map app.

 

[Oppo]

Android people working on candy-named updates gettin’ nervous

It's not about cupcakes. It's about the intersection of incredibly common disordered eating and exercise habits being reinforced by an unavoidable reminder of them. Google Maps in not a diet app, it's a Map app

this logic doesn’t really fly. calories are a unit of energy. the map app is telling you the required energy to move yourself to the destination. it’s totally appropriate and useful info in this exact context.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

the sheer amount of terrible hot takes in here is unbelievable

yikes

 

[Y-Z]

I would have loved this option. It always motivates me if i see the kcal listed, hope they make it an option in the future, maybe with customizable snacks so you can choose to track a piece of fruit, cupcake hamburger or whatever.

 

[HariKari]

Google Maps in not a diet app, it's a Map app.

So use another app or have a way to opt out of it. The outcome here is the least useful one possible.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

Sounds like a good feature, shame people have to ruin things.

 

[Wrestlemania]

“God what is wrong with these snowflakes why don’t they just ignore this” says several hundred outraged, overly sensitive men in reaction to a calorie counter being removed from an app that nobody would have known existed if not for their mass outrage.

 

[snail_maze]

It's about the intersection of incredibly common disordered eating and exercise habits being reinforced by an unavoidable reminder of them.

I don't understand the issue with the calorie counter, like in what manner is it related to an eating disorder? And how would walking be a negative exercise habit?

I suppose an opt out option would always be good with this kind of stuff, so I imagine that will be introduced in an update

 

[Daingurse]

They should just make this a toggle option you can enable.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

Android people working on candy-named updates gettin’ nervous



this logic doesn’t really fly. calories are a unit of energy. the map app is telling you the required energy to move yourself to the destination. it’s totally appropriate and useful info in this exact context.

It's not useful information - it's inherently incorrect. I also don't think it's appropriate - Google Maps isn't about 'required energy' - it's about how to get from point A to point B. I actually think it's more harmful than helpful in its most basic form.

With an opt-in and personalized energy information, sure - but it's still pushing it for me. It's secondary to the app's purpose and makes it more bloated.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It's not about cupcakes. It's about the intersection of incredibly common disordered eating and exercise habits being reinforced by an unavoidable reminder of them. Google Maps in not a diet app, it's a Map app.

Google maps shows multiple paths when I use it for planning a journey. I think it'd be great if I could see a estimate for how many extra calories a longer route would burn when planning. It really doesn't need to be very accurate for me either. The two app ideas aren't entirely separate. Just include an opt out if people really hate the idea of knowing how much energy something takes.

 

[1upsuper]

The feature itself is fine. Just don't call it a cupcake calorie counter for pete's sake. Google's painfully "hip" vibe frequently dips into condescension as it does here.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

“God what is wrong with these snowflakes why don’t they just ignore this” says several hundred outraged, overly sensitive men in reaction to a calorie counter being removed from an app that nobody would have known existed if not for their mass outrage.

“God what is wrong with these snowflakes why don’t they just ignore this” says some random guy on NeoGAF trying to position himself as superior to several hundred outraged, overly sensitive men in reaction to a calorie counter being removed from an app that nobody would have known existed if not for their mass outrage.

 

[elyetis]

Sure, it can be useful I guess, and I get that some people would want that - so make it a toggle! That's literally all everyone's saying.

In the very first page ( 100 post per page thought ) :

Like I said. As it would be just that easy. These people will opt it anyway, and it will harm them. Maybe you should befriend someone with eating disorder, then you would understand my point of view on this and my reaction to your super easy solutions.

So it does range from " it's useless let me opt-out" to "it shouldn't exist".

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

“God what is wrong with these snowflakes why don’t they just ignore this” says several hundred outraged, overly sensitive men in reaction to a calorie counter being removed from an app that nobody would have known existed if not for their mass outrage.

There's nothing unreasonable about being outraged over a (admittedly small) part of the perpetuation of probably the greatest danger facing the west.

 

[Kinyou]

It's not about cupcakes. It's about the intersection of incredibly common disordered eating and exercise habits being reinforced by an unavoidable reminder of them. Google Maps in not a diet app, it's a Map app.

The cupcakes were very much brought up as an issue and it's fair to point out that this is a ridiculous thing to get upset about.

 

[Wrestlemania]

There's nothing unreasonable about being outraged over a (admittedly small) part of the perpetuation of probably the greatest danger facing the west.

A fat white man on Facebook told me the greatest danger facing the West was Islam.

 

[boneyjangles]

What am i doing with my life reading these types of threads from beginning to end.

 

[Chuckie]

What am i doing with my life reading these types of threads from beginning to end.

You could have spent that time walking. I bet you would have burnt 3 mini cupcakes worth of calories/

 

[Gunblade47]

Shame they removed it outright instead of having it as an option. Wouldve liked having a excersise minigame for my lunch breaks at work.

 

[Condom]

“God what is wrong with these snowflakes why don’t they just ignore this” says several hundred outraged, overly sensitive men in reaction to a calorie counter being removed from an app that nobody would have known existed if not for their mass outrage.

I use google maps every day just like millions of other people. This isn't some niche app, it is the go to map application on android.

The reality is that the vast majority of people would benefit from this. 1% anorexia pop is not significant at all when there is an obesity epidemic in the tens of percents in most countries. Help them with mental care yes, (I'm a socialist you can't attack me on that) but the standard should be something that helps on macro scale.

Furthermore one is a mental disorder and the other also a biological addiction. If they would make it an option it should be opt out not opt in because that makes sense when looking at the numbers. Shit like this is why public policy tackles problems slowly in certain areas, people just think about the worst scenario instead of helping the vast majority of people in need (ok that was a bit hyperbolic).
We need action on obesity and we need it right now.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I use google maps every day just like millions of other people. This isn't some niche app, it is the go to map application on android.

The reality is that the vast majority of people would benefit from this. 1% anorexia pop is not significant at all when there is an obesity epidemic in the tens of percents in most countries.

Furthermore one is a mental disorder and the other also a biological addiction. If they would make it an option it should be opt out not opt in because that makes sense when looking at the numbers. Shit like this is why public policy tackles problems slowly in certain areas, people just think about the worst scenario instead of helping the vast majority of people in need. We need action on obesity and we need it right now.

If Google are serious about finding some way of using Maps to encourage people to walk/exercise, which I think is actually a good idea, there are countless better ways they could do it than a basic as fuck calorie counter with condescending cupcake bullshit around it.

Here’s one way - one of the daily goals on the Apple Watch is half an hour of exercise. Maybe they just let you opt in to showing how much each route would contribute to that goal, or if you don’t have an Apple Watch just have that as a goal tracked in the app.