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The Last Night: IGN Article [Quack Quack Slurp Slurp]
- Thread starter Bits N Pieces
- Start date
CopperPuppy
Member
LOL @ the posts ITT saying "wait a sec guys he's just targeting the bad, extremist feminists."
How does it feel to be that naïve? Will you be asking Santa Claus for more ethics in your gaming journalism this year?
How does it feel to be that naïve? Will you be asking Santa Claus for more ethics in your gaming journalism this year?
KonradLaw
Member
And that's fine. It's your right as a consumer. I just find the notion some people here displayed that not boycotting it is somehow immoral a bit silly.
Well, I haven't played the game. How's it like in the future? Trump impeached yet?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why does it have to be this way?
Ragnarsson
Member
I didn't say any of those things. Fiction you don't agree with is fine, it can even be illuminating and you're free to enjoy it. However, I take issue with the notion that fiction is totally separate from the real world. It's not. Fiction is always at least somewhat based on reality and it can help shape reality and our understanding of it. Its status as fiction doesn't shield it from any sort of criticism. And that's what I did in my post: I criticized this game and I directed criticism at people who make false correlations in trying to defend this project - for instance, comparing this project to Polanski's movies or Naughty Dog's games, in both cases missing the point that in this particular case the concept is based on GamerGate "ideals"; also, linking the game's concept to its assuredly beautiful visuals, which is a vapid stance on the issue. I didn't say people couldn't buy this product, they're free to do that (though I really believe they shouldn't, since that's my personal stance on the issue - I would never willingly support hate speech).
If one were to give this guy a charitable assessment of the ideas he wants to tackle...
In a future society where gender roles and reproduction have changed quite a bit, there are bound to be people who feel uncomfortable with the future and long for the old times. This is a case where he might be unknowingly satirizing himself.
Similarly, the question of what we do with ourselves when we don't have to work to survive isn't exactly new or groundbreaking, and it's been previously explored by quite a few science fiction works. This game seemingly approaches it as a problem and a contributing factor to a dystopia (people aren't creative anymore because the artists aren't starving?), but this is a pretty natural thing for someone to explore from an anti-capitalist perspective as well.
In all likelihood the game will handle both topics with the subtlety of a bag of hammers. There's just a possibility we'll be able to see a trace of the more reasonable underlying concepts depending on the execution.
In a future society where gender roles and reproduction have changed quite a bit, there are bound to be people who feel uncomfortable with the future and long for the old times. This is a case where he might be unknowingly satirizing himself.
Similarly, the question of what we do with ourselves when we don't have to work to survive isn't exactly new or groundbreaking, and it's been previously explored by quite a few science fiction works. This game seemingly approaches it as a problem and a contributing factor to a dystopia (people aren't creative anymore because the artists aren't starving?), but this is a pretty natural thing for someone to explore from an anti-capitalist perspective as well.
In all likelihood the game will handle both topics with the subtlety of a bag of hammers. There's just a possibility we'll be able to see a trace of the more reasonable underlying concepts depending on the execution.
I think you'll be waiting on this forever. I'm also waiting for a simple apology for his BS.
You'll be waiting on that for forever too.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Your post is beautiful and great. HONESTLY! But you are forgetting one thing. He said feminism winning leads to dystopia.
Dystopia: A dystopia (from the Greek δυσ- and τόπος, alternatively, cacotopia, kakotopia, or simply anti-utopia) is a community or society that is undesirable or frightening.
This is a huge problem.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
I honestly could not care less about the dev's politics.
• Ender's Game is still a classic even though Orson Scott Card is a homophobe.
• Chinatown is still a masterpiece even though Roman Polanski is a rapist.
• Revolver is still groundbreaking even though John Lennon beat up women.
Artists are people. They're fucked up and imperfect. Often, that's why they make great art. Boycotting something because you disagree with the creators' politics is great way to seal yourself in a hermetically sealed bubble. But then again, a safe little echo chamber is probably what some of you want.
• Ender's Game is still a classic even though Orson Scott Card is a homophobe.
• Chinatown is still a masterpiece even though Roman Polanski is a rapist.
• Revolver is still groundbreaking even though John Lennon beat up women.
Artists are people. They're fucked up and imperfect. Often, that's why they make great art. Boycotting something because you disagree with the creators' politics is great way to seal yourself in a hermetically sealed bubble. But then again, a safe little echo chamber is probably what some of you want.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
What a load of bull shit.
who knew boycotting something could hurt someone so much
Enders Game isnt a homophobic manifesto.
Chinatown isnt a rapist manifesto.
John Lennon is a piece of shit.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Ahhh I see. Still not even really well-versed on the whole GamerGate thing either..
If you can separate an artist from his politics, then fine! No one's going to stop you! But trying to call out people who disagree as babies who want safe spaces is childish and rude. You don't have to agree with someone else's opinion but you could at least respect it, ffs.
And if the game is directly about those politics? Then you still don't care, I assume.
Being against what GamerGate stands for is not some echo chamber.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Great argument. Truly insightful.
I also wanted to add that this point is complete bullshit and you know it.
Capitalism IS a hermetically sealed bubble. If I dont like you, I dont have to buy shit from you. 🤷🏻
arturo2666
Banned
Giving yourself away with the bolded. Just a tip.
arturo2666
Banned
jack_package_200
Banned
There is a difference between enjoying art from a problematic artist and enjoying art which is a reflection of the views of the problematic artist.
I recognize your username. Aren't you a well known social conservative from GameFAQS or am I thinking of someone else?
I recognize your username. Aren't you a well known social conservative from GameFAQS or am I thinking of someone else?
No one is arguing the quality, are they?
No. Nope. That's not what is happening here.
Get out of here with this nonsense "disagree with the creators' politics" shit. Misogyny is not "politics." It is not an "opinion." It is factually wrong.
Now, if you can look past that and play this game, that is completely fine. But don't delude yourself. He is a bad person.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Boogie?
Have fun watching Victor Salva's movies, particularly Clownhouse.
There's obviously a limit to acceptability for reprehensible people, their art, and how one influences the other. Plugging your ears and shouting about echo chambers just makes you sound foolish.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
We know next to nothing about the content of this game. I guess I'd argue for waiting to see what the game actually is before writing it off. And lol, no I've never posted on GameFAQS.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Ender's Game isn't about homosexuality being bad
Chinatown isn't about rape being okay
Revolver isn't about how great it is to beat up women
Try again
SomedayTheFire
Member
Wait do echo chambers only exist when they oppose your viewpoint? Or are you in your own echo chamber too, not listening to those of us that have differing viewpoints to you?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Except he told us what the premise is so.....
TetraGenesis
Member
The. Difference. Is. The. Message. Of. The. Game. Is. Feminism. Is. Objectively. Evil. And. Would. Lead. To. Dystopia.
He has said -- in very clear terms -- that this game is a product of GamerGate.
He has publicly expressed a desire to have "Vivian James" in his game.
He regularly Likes GamerGate and Alt-right posts on Twitter.
This is a narrative game. The narrative, the themes, the message is the game. This isn't a matter of separating art from the artist. This game has a purpose, an objective. It is to disseminate hateful, vicious, regressive ideas in the form of narrative fiction.
The only way you're okay with that is if you are okay with the ideas GamerGate sought to spread. Full stop.
We know what the game's premise is and after that leaked out after the E3 showing, all we have is a back peddle that we are supposed to take at face value even though the dude that said it has clearly not changed.
You say that, yet you're literally not open to the idea of someone choosing not to play a game for a political reason and instead dismiss those people.
And multiple people have pointed out that The Last Night prominently features Soret's toxic views whereas the examples you mentioned do not feature their artists' problematic traits.
The Last Night has more in common with Orson Scott Card's Empire than it does Ender's Game.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Here's the deal. If this game is literally about how feminism was the primary cause of the world falling apart, everything I said is moot and the guy is a dipshit and his game will be garbage.
If, and I think this is more likely the case, the setting is a dystopia in which a number of significant social changes have occurred, only one of which has to do with gender dynamics, then I will reserve judgment based on how it is actually handled, what the game has to say about it, and whether it simply raises questions or takes sides in a clumsy and stupid way.
I doubt that a game will be able to capture all of this stuff in a sophisticated way, but that's a separate issue from any possible political agenda.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but how do we know what this game is about? The most I've seen are some very vague comments about feminism and dystopia from the creator. Sounds a little weird and possibly offensive, but the dude obviously has a vision, so I'm willing to see where it goes. It's the prejudging that I don't understand.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
"vague"
Edit: Look, if you want to wait for the game to be released, that's fine. I'm not judging you. But to write off everybody that reads and reacts to what the lead developer said about his own game as "living in an echo chamber" while simultaneously boasting about being open to opposing points of view is....weird
CopperPuppy
Member
Please see the post:
The. Difference. Is. The. Message. Of. The. Game. Is. Feminism. Is. Objectively. Evil. And. Would. Lead. To. Dystopia.
He has said -- in very clear terms -- that this game is a product of GamerGate.
He has publicly expressed a desire to have "Vivian James" in his game.
He regularly Likes GamerGate and Alt-right posts on Twitter.
This is a narrative game. The narrative, the themes, the message is the game. This isn't a matter of separating art from the artist. This game has a purpose, an objective. It is to disseminate hateful, vicious, regressive ideas in the form of narrative fiction.
The only way you're okay with that is if you are okay with the ideas GamerGate sought to spread. Full stop.
SomedayTheFire
Member
The. Difference. Is. The. Message. Of. The. Game. Is. Feminism. Is. Objectively. Evil. And. Would. Lead. To. Dystopia.
He has said -- in very clear terms -- that this game is a product of GamerGate.
He has publicly expressed a desire to have "Vivian James" in his game.
He regularly Likes GamerGate and Alt-right posts on Twitter.
This is a narrative game. The narrative, the themes, the message is the game. This isn't a matter of separating art from the artist. This game has a purpose, an objective. It is to disseminate hateful, vicious, regressive ideas in the form of narrative fiction.
The only way you're okay with that is if you are okay with the ideas GamerGate sought to spread. Full stop.
I mean, it ain't looking good
The Hermit
Member
Looks good, but the story is bold_strategy_cotton.gif
I really wanna see how it turns out
I really wanna see how it turns out
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
And yet none of this can be derived from the trailer or his recent interview. So simply as a matter of curiosity I want to know what this game actually has in it.
The dude said some stupid shit for sure. That point has been made.
i believe tim soret pre E3 more than i believe tim soret post E3
Ninja Scooter
Member
I have absolutely zero reason to believe you are asking in good faith, but the answer to your question are all over this thread if you would have actually taken the time to read it and educate yourself. But you are just going to either deflect any evidence presented to you or move the goalposts so why bother. Save yourself the trouble.