-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
How do you feel about city smoking bans?
- Thread starter bill0527
- Start date
- Status
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Really? You can't think of anything that can have been claimed to have benefit toward society and also had/have public support?
- War on Drugs
- War on Terror
A couple of oldies, but goodies!
- Prohibition
- Segregation
Not all issues are created equal, but using the twin metrics of "public support" and "think of the children" is just a flawed argument.
You have a very naïve view of democracy in the UK. I like your spirit though.
I've been to places that have a smoking ban, but nobody adheres to it. I'm glad we're not like that here. I might not like the decision, but I'll respect it.
Forgive me if I don't faint with gratitude.
Being around cigarette smoke makes me feel physically ill, makes it harder for me to breathe, and makes my skin and eyes itch horribly. I tend to notice these symptoms before I even smell the smoke. I'm not exaggerating, so if that makes me prissy, then I'll happily be the prissiest motherfucker in the room, as long as I don't have to be sick and itchy on top of the prissy.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the headaches. I knew there was one I was forgetting.
Well I'm not making this up.
The set of clothes that I wore would reek of smoke.
My girlfriends afro would reek of smoke. (she was much more upset about this than the clothes)
Its the truth.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I said that actually have measurable benefit, not that are claimed to. None of those were actually effective with the possible exception of the second and even that's unlikely.
With that said I'll admit that I'd be interested in looking at a before-after study of a city with smoking bans regardless of what the results ended up being.
EYEL1NER
Member
I believe you. I've seen the complaint on GAF more than enough times.
I think if you are a smoker or are commonly around smokers you may get desensitized to it.
BertramCooper
Banned
And what about the employees of bars and restaurants? For all intents and purposes, the bar is their office.
Why is it okay to force them to inhale cigarette smoke in a restaurant while it's not okay to force me to inhale cigarette smoke in my office?
Revolutionary
Member
As a smoker: they fucking suck. I like the freedom to smoke wherever and whenever I please.
When I'm trying to quit: they're awesome. Fresh air all around.
So yeah, as you can see, I'm conflicted. On the one hand I don't think the city has the right to tell me I can't smoke at a bar, etc., but on the other I completely understand the need for the ban.
When I'm trying to quit: they're awesome. Fresh air all around.
So yeah, as you can see, I'm conflicted. On the one hand I don't think the city has the right to tell me I can't smoke at a bar, etc., but on the other I completely understand the need for the ban.
EYEL1NER
Member
That could be it I suppose. I know that sense of smell is one of the things that begins returning quickly after quitting, but maybe being around still was a reason.
Then again, most of my coworkers were quitting around the same time. The only time for 10 months that I was exposed to it was at the bar or church/bible study.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Completely understand that point. It's tough because of employees. No matter what statement you have someone sign where they state they understand the risks of working in a smoking environment, there will be evidence down the road that puts restaurants and bars at risk from former employees who get some disease because of second hand smoke.
And I'm sure there are factors that want complete bans vs partial bans to prevent other bars/restaurants from making money.
I have a set of jeans I wore last week that smells like smoke I had to put out on the porch to air it out.
In this hypothetical, there were smoking bars and non-smoking bars. Don't get a job in a smoking bar if you're bothered about that sort of thing.
Maybe I'll bold this as people keep assuming the opposite: I don't want the smoking ban repealed.
As a smoker, i dont really care much too be honest, in fact i kind of enjoy it whe going out. THe usual bars i visit have a smoking room, and its just fun to stay inside talk a bit with your friends, and then go have a smoke outside, or in the smokers area and chat with some people there. I hate staying in the same place all the time, now i have a reason for diversion!
I've met a lot of fatties who'd be much hotter with a smoking habit than a bon bon habit. "B.b.b..b I'm so much healthier gorging myself to death with food than having a couple smokes!" Riiiiiiight.
And while smoking is totally unhealthy, it takes like 20 years to demolish you. No one will ever convince me that alcohol isn't a much much worse drug. With a few bad decisions or scenarios, you can go from zero to sixty to dead in a couple hours. Or broken nose, broken possessions, lost possessions, STDs, embarassment, manic behavior, hangovers, depression, dizziness, vomiting, nausea, work issues, etc.
Meanwhile, a pack of smokes will make me stink, but the rest of my life will be intact for at least 20 years. Boy is it funny hearing how evil I am for smoking from a belligerent aggressive drunk two steps away from punching someone in the face or getting a DUI. Nothing beats that.
As an aside, I get a little satisfaction when nonsmokers have to face my "fog of death" on the way into a bar. We used to have bars and now we don't. Enjoy the cloud on the way in jerkwads!
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
That might be a tough thing to ask for considering what some may give up under a smoking ban.
BertramCooper
Banned
What if you're struggling to find a job and can only find one in a smoking bar? Should you be forced to compromise your health for your financial security?
It's not that unrealistic of a scenario these days.
EYEL1NER
Member
They could take up smoking?
jk
TestOfTide
Banned
I smoke every now and then and have no problem with this rule as long as long as I can smoke outside on the sidewalk.
Oh man, everything cannot be perfect for everyone all of the time. Case in point, I can't have a fag with my pint. These hypothetical people either take a job they don't really want, or they find alternative means to survive. Just like each and every one of us that wasn't lucky enough to find the 'correct' vocation. I don't want to sit on this uncomfortable chair in this hot office, but I sure do love my wages.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Actually...I just went to Google Scholar and typed in "smoking ban before after" and got a dozen or so studies demonstrating improvements in everything from health of bar workers to admissions to the hospital for heart disease complications
EYEL1NER
Member
And he claimed that someone being fat doesn't mean you have to smell a disgusting smell.
I don't know about him, but I have smelled some disgusting smells coming from fatties before. Where they get in the vicinity of you and that noxious odor hits your nostrils and it's all you can do to keep from physically gagging.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Can you remind me of the downsides of a blanket smoking ban? Not being a dick, just want to see your thoughts on it.
I've seen some of those and when they start documenting how the health of the community improves, it's tremendous. Especially when we start considering how much healthcare is gonna eat up our livelihoods, I think people will take another look at it.
Perfect.
Who wants to work in a place where there is a constant cloud of second degree smoke being blown around your face? Even if you are a smoker I find this hard to believe they would want those working conditions.
BertramCooper
Banned
Well, it's good that I have my college degree and a white-collar job so that I'm not forced to compromise my health like the plebeians below me who have to work in foodservice.
Sometimes I want a cigarette when I'm drinking. The downside is that I can't.
Could you expand on that? Bar toilets smell too much of piss to notice someone smelling like smoke.
Reduced freedom of choice for smokers. It ain't much on balance, which is why I wouldn't repeal the ban entirely. I'd just make it possible for a licensee to apply for a 'smoking' license, just as they need a license to serve alcohol.
Yeah but the poor fuckers might need to carve their way through the smoking room to get to the piss-stinking toilets. That's no good. Plus, the lingering smoke in hallways and passages and stuff. Nah, I understand why non-smokers don't want smokers in the same building.
I don't smoke at home because although the missus also smokes, she doesn't like the house to smell of cigarette smoke. I'll respect that because I have the choice to live elsewhere.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, in this scenario, we're talking about people who want to venture into social settings -- some of which the desire is to enjoy alcohol -- and not have to be exposed to smoke. So, in this context, yes? I'm honestly confused as to whether or not you think you are demonstrating great rhetorical skill, here.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Might be better if we force some people to smoke in there.
EYEL1NER
Member
I wouldn't mind it. I could critiqe the bars around here to hell and back, but I still like the bar environment and if I had to work in one, I wouldn't mind.
One of my dreams is to open a bar, so I would hope I could deal with being in a smoke-filled bar. Of course with the way things are going here with smoking bans, I might have to pursue my 'opening a bar in South Korea' dream over my 'open a US bar' dream.
Smelly Tramp
Member
fantastic. this is what i want.
somewhere that's not my shithole rented student house.
Smoking porch? 85% of bars in my town have smoking porches for when people want to drink and smoke, they just have to go outside to a heated patio.
williamsan
Member
It may be more disgusting to you (I agree, it does look...nasty) but it's definitely kinder to the man walking next to me. Some of my spit can't get into his mouth, whereas second hand smoke would be super easy to inhale by accident. The whole ban thing is whatever to me because I dip as well.
I do sympathize with smokers in bars, who can't smoke a cig when they drink.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Well, they tax the hell out of cigarettes here in the US, just do a good analysis and make that shit generate revenue? You got my republican side interested. But I have a hard time of swallowing that.
Where?
One day, I'll talk about the doctor I saw dipping while on rounds in an ICU. Would talk about the ventilator and spit into his cup. Funny juxtaposition.
Another thing, back in Philly, I think they had a clause for smoking bars. I used to go to a cigar lounge. Upscale, classy. There were a few and I think they were exempt. Why don't bars just become cigar lounges? I might be up for that. Then all cigarette lovers would get this high class image. Every membership gets one of those looking glasses and they can wear top coats. Would help the image vs seeing people huddled next to an exit in the cold, looking like crack heads. Less laws would be pushed thru if all smokers looked like Johnnie Walker.
Cuban Legend
Member
Someone ruining their liver with alcohol in my vicinity isn't going to hurt anyone but himself.
If he's smoking, with second-hand smoke alone he's killing everyone within sniffing distance. No thanks I'd rather live, you greedy smoking fucks.
I say let em smoke in a separate bar if they really want to.
In a warm country this wouldn't matter really, heated patios and gardens are usually a bit rubbish on the heated part when it's any season other than summer. It's cold and windy and wet and dark outside. I sometimes can't take my drink out with me either. It's purely selfish. I was nice and cosy inside with my drink and a cig, and now I have to go somewhere else to smoke. Maybe I won't get a seat and have to stand.
Portland, OR
Not applicable to every place, but some places have this here.
Pussy
People go to the heated patio here whether it's +20 or -20 because it's the only 'hip' place with one here.I am just saying there are some options to having a pint with a cigarette, at least where I live.
HammerOfThor
Member
I support it. Aside from a bad encounter with an intoxicated person, someone casually drinking wont hurt you. However, if you want to hang out with your friends and and have something like MS, you CAN NOT be around any kind of smoking at all. So a casual smoker in a bar can be harmful to people.
Pussy
Like being plucked from a warm cot and thrown into the elements to fight for myself, so I felt when the smoking ban was introduced upon this grim, grey land.
I miss having a cigarette and a coffee inside more than a beer a cigarette. After a few beers I'm invincible and don't care about bracing the ferocious winds.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
No, once again, you're mIstaking the argument with the results. Using your particular arguments against smoking - that it would be beneficial to society and it has public support - is what launched those campaigns. Undoubtably the world would be better off without alcohol, drugs and terrorism. There is a reason you can on the face of it call them ineffective. And if smoking bans are instituted, what makes you think it'll be more effective than any of these? It will be lumped in with other illicit substances, so if you support government mandated smoking bans, you support the war on drugs. They'll be one and the same.
- Status