TemplaerDude
Member
Whatever helps you sleep at night there, captain.
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Andrew Breitbart has died
- Thread starter planar1280
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Whatever helps you sleep at night there, captain.
PhoenixDark
Banned
This is going to happen and many bans will be handed out. Hopefully not anytime soon though
Big Baybee
Member
It's amazing that none of his defenders are calling him out for his discretions. No way would I defend a liberal journalist who did the type of foul shit that he did. Everything doesn't have to be left and right. Come on people.
polyh3dron
Banned
yeah i hate having preexisting conditions covered and knowing that my insurance company can't drop me if i get sick too. i know that feel bro.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'll have similar disdain for Michael Moore when he goes. It's not what side he's on, it's his specific actions that garner the hatred.
polyh3dron
Banned
Did Michael Moore ever edit a video so that someone appeared to be saying the exact opposite of what they were really saying while claiming that it was some bombshell revelation and absolutely true? Did he ever claim to have damning videos of an elected official saying or doing something that would cost them their position when said video in fact never existed?
I don't think you can really compare these two people at all. This is some pretty bad false equivalency.
faceless007
Member
Did Michael Moore ever get someone fired for something they factually did not do?
eBay Huckster
Member
Yeah, ACORN sure did something wrong in 2009, and Shirley Sherrod sure did deserve to get fired in 2010.
e: Also I love how the first FOX News link in this post cuts off a rather important word from the actual headline.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Moore's not quite as bad at a person-by-person level, but he has edited plenty of video to make people look worse than they were. He's had wider influence and been active longer, so that works against him as well. I don't like the term 'class warfare' but it applied to Moore, and he's willing to lie to advance his agenda, making people look pretty bad in the process.
I won't call them equivalent, but Moore's one of my most-hated media figures, and I'm pretty liberal. I value truth over scoring points, and that's why the comparison-- the two of them played basically the same game.
Oh, also this:
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah, Moore's thing is more along the lines of exaggeration for dramatic effect. He's not straight down the middle by any means but he isn't out there perpetuating complete falsehoods like the recently departed.
SirButterstick
Banned
A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. . . . .
(breathes deeply)
AAAAHHHHHHH HA HAHAAAAAAA HA HA HAH HA . . . .
Seriously dude?
Trent Strong
Banned
Pretty close.
Slurpy2k20
Member
This is just fucking stupid. Sure, if you're braindead, you can make mindless comparisons like this in order to pretend to prove some point. For those of us willing to look at things rationally, the comments towards him have absolutely nothing to do with his political alignment. He's one of the people I would look at, and become depressed at humanity and the state of the world. He espoused nothing but lies, hatred, vilification, and never had the self respect or the class to admit when he was wrong. His entire 'journalism' career was based on extreme narcissism and the desperate need to get attention, damn the consequences. It's people like him that make the truth so hard to find from the poisonous, slanderous bullshit. The things he did were indefensible in every sense of the word, and it gives pause when people (like you) downplay it for no specific reason.
Obamacare? Really now? What a usefulness fucking comment.
Are you talking about his filmography as a whole, or a specific example?
Ever since the Acorn incident I've found this man to be pretty deplorable. I admit that I haven't closely followed his later escapades but I did find his involvement in the Sherrod incident to be another regretful affair.
Still, RIP to him and I offer my condolences to his family.
Still, RIP to him and I offer my condolences to his family.
polyh3dron
Banned
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Um, he is. Watch Sicko and look where he how he portrays the Cuban heathcare system, then go look up where they fall by accepted measures.
He also screws up the chronology of Roger and Me to make Roger Smith and the execs of GM look especially scummy.
Were those as personal, or personally damaging to any targets? No. That's where Breitbart was far worse.
Trent Strong
Banned
I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but tons of people who have been in his "documentaries" have complained about him grossly distorting the things they said, the South Park guys for instance.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Yeah, placed a cartoon that ripped off the SP style (animation) right after an interview with Matt Stone (not sure if Trey too) to imply it was created by them.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's been a while since I saw Sicko, but IIRC the point wasn't that Cuban health care is the gold standard we should aspire to, rather it was how embarrassing it is that in some aspects, the health care system in the US is worse and that should be embarrassing to us.
Edit: fixed a typo, meant to say "gold standard" not "good standard"
polyh3dron
Banned
I believe they call this parody, and yeah, that's part of moore's style, editorializing with small video clips. The Daily Show does the same thing. Still nowhere near Breibart's work which is why comparing the two is false equivalence of the highest order.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
That's excusing the movie far too much. He doesn't say "Look, Cuban healthcare is nearly as good as the US" and in fact paints it as pretty great and much better than the US. It's a gross distortion, if you don't bother to do your own research.
As I said, Breitbart is worse, but I have a special hatred of people who intentionally mislead in the realm of politics, even if I agree with a lot of their agenda.
This subthread started because of the right-wing whiners who were claiming that the response to Breitbart was purely political, and I was posing a counter-example. This isn't really the time to discuss Moore's faults-a-plenty when Breitbart is the one who kicked the bucket today.
Trent Strong
Banned
It wasn't a pardoy of South Park. Moore wanted everyone watching the documentary to believe that Parker and Stone created the cartoon. The Daily Show doesn't do this. But there are much worse examples of Moore distorting what people said that the South Park example.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Please, name some that got people fired or harmed anyone in any way.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No, that wasn't the case as Trent points out.
This is false equivalence. I mourned the loss of William F. Buckely Jr; I mourned the loss of Reagan; I will mourn the loss of Frum and Brooks. On the flipside, I will not mourn Michael Moore to any great degree, and I won't mourn Brietbart now.
This is not a consequence of Brietbart disagreeing with me; this is a consequence of the manner in which Brietbart disagreed with me. He was rude, manipulative, deceitful and cruel. Your inability to see the difference suggests a poor grasp of nuance.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This, 1000x this.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
This is the best post of the entire thread.
speculawyer
Member
polyh3dron
Banned
they're both just as bad
travisbickle
Member
I haven't seen Sicko in a long time but didn't they just travel to Cuba to get prescription drugs for cheaper then they are available in the USA.
And a lot of people I know view Cuba as a good model for health care, when looked at objectively, these people being health care professionals who view Cuba as a poor country and not an "axis of evil."
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I haven't seen it in a while, but it was more than that. They got stuff diagnosed and handled that was unhandled for several people in the US.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
You also once claimed there was more public freedom in the PRC.
Has this been posted yet http://youtu.be/PfUDdoXPZZM ? Only thing I could think while watching is "Wow".
Been a few years since I saw it too, but my recollection is that it was a group of 9/11 responders who were sick from what they were exposed to that day but couldn't get coverage in the US.
Probably a couple of videos of Bams smoking a couple cigarettes and using coarse language with his buddies.
travisbickle
Member
That's just a criticism of the American system, he could have gone anywhere to have those people diagnosed and treated, I mean I wouldn't consider diagnosis and treatment signs of a "great" system, just the basic tenets of healthcare. Cuba's infant mortality and life expectancy, on it's budget, are great though.
I don't know why people get so wound up by Moore, his movies are simple narrative: go to a point in history where systems were put in place for the good of the people, go to a point when the systems where changed for the good of the few, then show the people who have been effected negatively by the change (usually the disenfranchised) and try to speak to the people who were effected positively (usually the billionaires).
I don't think people would be willing to watch movies with the roles reversed?
Pristine_Condition
Member
Open Source
Banned
I think most of the people judging Breitbart are doing so through the prism of their political biases. Many probably would not be decrying the lack of context in a video that made their political enemies look bad, for example.
I have to say I admired the guy for his balls, his enthusiasm, and his ability to take on degenerate institutions and special interests. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he's been vindicated numerous times after withering accusations of lying (e.g., Anthony Wiener). He put up a $100,000 reward for anyone who could provide video evidence of racial epithets being hurled by the Tea Party at black congressmen, and in an era of ubiquitous flipcams and camera phones, no one was able to claim it.
He was flawed, wrote rambling articles, and did some collateral damage to people who didn't really deserve it in his takedowns. But he also fought like hell against anti-gay bigotry in the GOP and hypocrisy and elitism on the left and in the non-FOX media, and shone a much-needed light on the festering underbelly of certain special interests.
I'd be all for more Breitbarts on the left and right, because there's plenty of bullshit on both sides.
I have to say I admired the guy for his balls, his enthusiasm, and his ability to take on degenerate institutions and special interests. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he's been vindicated numerous times after withering accusations of lying (e.g., Anthony Wiener). He put up a $100,000 reward for anyone who could provide video evidence of racial epithets being hurled by the Tea Party at black congressmen, and in an era of ubiquitous flipcams and camera phones, no one was able to claim it.
He was flawed, wrote rambling articles, and did some collateral damage to people who didn't really deserve it in his takedowns. But he also fought like hell against anti-gay bigotry in the GOP and hypocrisy and elitism on the left and in the non-FOX media, and shone a much-needed light on the festering underbelly of certain special interests.
I'd be all for more Breitbarts on the left and right, because there's plenty of bullshit on both sides.
speculawyer
Member
So you just assume what anti-Castro Cubans say is complete truth? You really think that is any better?
Open Source
Banned
Let's just go to Cuba and talk to some Cubans who aren't anti-Castro, then! Which is pretty much the only ones you'll see, since the anti-Castro Cubans are either jailed, dead, or fled the country.
I stongly believe: Cuba would have been a democracy twenty years ago if Floridian ex-Cuban landowners had less political influence.
This doesn't make the fact their property was taken from then any more right, or Cuba's role in driving us to the brink of buclear ctastrophe any more forgiveable, but I suspect it's true, nonetheless.
they need to give it up now. They are not getting their shit back, besides, they are all dead now and it's mostly their kids bitching.
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