Can you elaborate on this?
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DmC E3 Demo Walkthrough - Mission + Boss
- Thread starter lowhighkang_LHK
- Start date
A good point, but I don't think a clean parallel can be drawn to "One More Day". At least in comics you have several different alternate realities by which to enjoy your favorite characters. Spider-Man still has the Ultimate series, for example.
I find that impossible to believe. Ninja Gaiden 3 is the worst game I've played in quite some time. Its combat is fucking garbage tier.
WHAT? You need to elaborate on this because I have a hard time seeing this. DmC's combat at least doesn't stop every odd second to show you a cinematic finisher and that should make it significantly better.
BULLSHIT.
Infinite Justice
Member
wow a bombshell was dropped in here lol
Need some elaboration as well since that NG3 demo i played made me go
Need some elaboration as well since that NG3 demo i played made me go
Haha, yeah. Even I can't imagine it's worse than Ninja Gaiden 3. I mean, it is by Ninja Theory, and Heavenly Sword had a worse combat system than Ninja Gaiden 3, but NG3 is like top-of-the-class awful. I'm sure this game will be awful and will leave ezkial45 crying in his sleep and pretending it's the best thing since ever to cover his shame, but worse than NG3 I can't believe.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Currently, the game makes no demands on the player to fight for their survival. There's no reason to use most of your offensive or defensive capabilities. This could change, but there's another problem.
The animation and move list isn't particularly elaborate or flashy so it doesn't really reward styling from an visual standpoint. That, along with the framerate gives it more of a brawler feel.
NG3 was a huge letdown compared to its predecessor, but it's still 60fps and the animation is decent enough. So if they're both brawlers NG3 is the one that looks better in motion.
DmC will probably be NT's best game though. Just don't expect DMC3/DMC4 caliber combat.
I am pretty sure that's what most people are expecting. But none of the impressions in there struck me as "worse than NG3". Yeah the game isn't 60FPS and has some pretty clunky animations but the core combat looks decent enough and there is enough variety even at the base level to do some fancy combos and style on opponents.
Also how were the controls? Like if Heavenly Sword's controls are a 1 and NG Black's (original) control are a 10, where would DmC be?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
And it's not like the first few enemies in DMC3/4 weren't punching bags either for you to style on and get a sense of the controls.
The bolded is kind of hard to judge based on a tutorial level, but really, basic survival against random mooks wasn't very hard in DMC either since DMC1. The basic enemies are there to style on, and survival was mostly only an issue against mini-bosses/bosses.
So far DmC's combat looks much better than NG3 to me.
Also, I don't see how DmC won't be 60FPS on PC as well.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Controls are responsive and the soft lock on is great. 7 or 8. They did a good job there. But they need to tone down hit stun from Dante's attacks, tone down gun damage and stun, increase enemy attack priority, fix looping angel/devil grabs, make enemies more aggressive, add more frames of animation, expand the move list, and get the PC version to 60fps. That would be a good start.
Also, more enemies in smaller levels.
LightofRohan
Member
Played it. It was really slick and fast -- I wasn't that interested in it, but now I'm day 1. I actually didn't want to stop... which is weird for me at E3.
Kris from siliconera said that sometime he reached a high where he couldn't use the grapples anymore, the only alternative for him was to smash his way through the ground. Are you completely sure that there is no end to the grapple abusing or maybe you gave up before that limit?
About the animation frames, I remember an interview where NT said that Itsuno was specific about stuff like "cut those animation frames so that the gameplay will be more responsive", so I don't think they'd add more frames if Itsuno already butchered what they initially had lol
Expanding the move list is not really fair to say, before this thread's walkthrough no one had used the demon and angel dodges (aside from unintentional tiggers), or Osiris' stinger-like move.
Also, did you noticed how you do stinger, and what do you do to turn it into trillion stabs? I'm curious about that.
lol dont give the devs credit, thank the fans for complaining!
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
You can do a devil axe attack to devil grab infinite. Enemies die when angel chaining before you hit the ceiling. The last hit of your air combo pops them back in the air. Never even used the stinger. Didn't really need it.
Maybe they can turn the game around before release but there's a lot of work to do. Step one is make it so the grunts aren't pushovers.
fallingdove
Member
Could the choppy animation simply be due to the 30fps? i.e. they are trying to make the animation/gameplay look faster but don't have the frames to do so?
Still skeptical about the game but it is good to see that there are a few positive previews out there.
Well, I think it's fair to say you didn't used it because it wasn't needed, but I don't think it's fair to say it is not stylish when you weren't even trying lol
Most things hardcore DMC fans are worried we won't see in this game are not needed at all. I think it's safe to say that the general audience doesn't even know that Jump Cancel exists, and yet they finished the games.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Games use more bad language than movies now for some demented reason. It makes no sense. The gameplay did look quite good though.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Good point. There's hope for the PC release.
I'm gonna say that the final version could potentially be worthy of the name but the demo wasn't ready to be served up to hc DMC franchise fans, who are already extremely skeptical of any flaws in the combat.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No, the line for Rising was massive. DmC didn't have too long of a wait at the Sony booth. Don't know if I'll get to it today.
The animation being choppy has nothing to do with the framerate, there's like no blending between individual animations in the game at this point, it's weird.
So you played the PS3 version of DmC then? Is the framerate stable, were L2/R2 the buttons for angel/demon?
So you played the PS3 version of DmC then? Is the framerate stable, were L2/R2 the buttons for angel/demon?
Like I said before. Believe whatever convenient lie you want. I put two and two together. Some people have said that they changed Dante's look to match his voice actor. I've not seen any evidence to support that, though I'm open to links. I think that the newest version looks way more like Hayden Christiansen.
The hair, his physique, the smoking, and paleness were a few of the biggest complaints from the DmC reveal, often with him being referred to as a meth head. Those all changed in the next trailer. And continued to change in the following trailers. And they admitted that they were listening to feedack and reading impressions online on Capcom-Unity. I'll give them credit for listening and realizing that their original design was a piece of shit.
Darkmakaimura
Member
I've heard people complain about voice acting in various games, but this is seriously the worst offender at least when it comes to dialogue. It's cheesy and not in a good kind of way. The overuse of f-bombs to try and sound oh-so-cool and what seems to me like Occupy/Anonymous references. Still looks like a fun game but just really, really dumb. I much prefer the cheesiness of the original series.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Trust me, NG3 combat is pretty deep once you learn all of the moves and when to implement them. I beat it on Master Ninja and IMO, the combat has more depth than most action games. Hitting square throughout the game will not work on Mentor or Master Ninja. I have a feeling that DMC will be good, but not as deep as NG3.
As I said, I can agree with the first redesign (from TGS 2010 to E3 2011) being from fan backlash, but if you see after that they only tweaked it more and more so it would look like his actor.
Like I requested. Link me to something that proves that. You may be right, I've just not seen any interviews indicating that.
If I'm not mistaken Tameem did said in the recent stream on Capcom-Unity something in those lines, but I cannot prove to you something I observed, you can look at him in E3 2011, TGS 2011 and The Fight and then Captivate and decide for yourself.
EDIT: And looks like he doesn't smoke anymore, that can be due to complains as well, even though I don't really se a reason for it. At least we could have a taunt with him burning his enemies with the cigarette like in the debut trailer.
I mentioned the smoking already. I've been following this thing pretty closely since announcement. Tons and tons of complaints streamed in regarding the smoking, as well as the sadistic nature of Dante (burning out cigarettes on enemies). The cigarettes were removed in the next showing.
If I recall correctly, Tameem said that the motion capture actors also perform the voiceacting for consistency. He said nothing about changing Dante's look, or Dante's look emulating the voice actor. I might also add that despite Tameem suggesting this as revolutionary, it's been done in DMC3, DMC4, and RE5.
Vicetrailia
Member
The combat looks terrible and broken. This is taking non-threatening enemies to a whole new tier.
The graphics look good and I liked the end of that boss fight...I'm sure that the cutscenes will be highly enjoyable.
But I can't say that I'm down with the environment shifting gimmick.
The graphics look good and I liked the end of that boss fight...I'm sure that the cutscenes will be highly enjoyable.
But I can't say that I'm down with the environment shifting gimmick.
He doesn't suggest it as revolutionary since it's not even the first time they're doing it themselves.
But did DMC3/4 and RE5 used motion capture, facial capture and voice capture at the same time? I didn't know that.
No, those games didn't use performance capture.
Performance capture generally refers to the capture of face, fingers, and more subtle expressions. Resident Evil 5 definitely used performance capture. DMC4 had performance capture staff credited.
Performance capture has more recently evolved, but it still existed back in 2008.
Yeah, voice, facial and body capture at once.
Those games only used traditional motion capture. The face and full-body capture were done separately. Performance capture is capturing everything at once. And the facial animation in DMC3 is shitcakes so I really don't see how anyone can say that had performance capture.
Yeah, voice, facial and body capture at once. Really is about capturing subtle facial expressions.
Those games only used traditional motion capture. Performance capture is capturing everything at once. The facial animation in DMC3 is shitcakes so I really don't see how anyone can say that had performance capture, nevermind being from 2005.
Do you even read before replying?
If you actually read my posts, my reference to DMC3 specifically referred to the fact that the motion capture and voice acting was done by the same people.
When I said 2008, I was referring to DMC4. Performance capture staff were credited, so I'm assuming they used an earlier form of performance capture. Performance capture is not a recent phenomenon. Avatar used the latest iteration of performance capture, and so, you might mistakenly believe that nothing pre-Avatar could have possibly had any form of performance capture.
Performance capture is what I described. Everything else is not.
Facial capture in RE5 was done the traditional way, ADR'd in a booth.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I was actually kind of surprised with all the moves and attacks that were present in the demo. A lot of I didn't even know was possible until I saw that Capcom walkthrough.
Considering a demo, is just an introductory concept, to have all that stuff on there was pretty impressive. I think with all the weapons, various firearms, stances, and upgrades this could turn out prettty intensive.
Considering a demo, is just an introductory concept, to have all that stuff on there was pretty impressive. I think with all the weapons, various firearms, stances, and upgrades this could turn out prettty intensive.
It's semantics. My understanding is that performance capture has been in existence for a long time and refers broadly to the capture of facial expressions while voice acting.
I still haven't seen anything that refutes that, except for your posts, but I'll defer to you since I'm not certain, and I don't particularly care. Performance capture wasn't something I was referring to in my original post anyway.
Why is that impressive for the same gameplay demo that's we've seen for the past year? We've seen this section over and over again, so I imagine they've been working on it all this time.
AwesomeSauce
MagsMoonshine
Without hard lock-on, it looks like he's targeting the legs sometimes when he's supposed to be hitting the giant glowing weak spot.
PeterVenkman
Member
good god the lack of variety in this video is astounding. I know that the player can change but you can't make that boss have interesting moves. Acid Spit and Swear seem to be its only repertoire.
Seeing that DT just makes me sad.
Input windows are still reliant on game visuals even if you poll at 60fps.
It can be frame-rate related. If the animations aren't ending on proper key-frames on cancel, then the animation will be janky. If the follow-up animation has too quick of a start up following a sharp cut, it will look janky. Past DMC games also had canceled animations that looked off and I'm not talking about enemy step cancels. Overall though, their animation is top notch.
I see most of the awkward transitions in DmC being a result of poor animation cancel balancing, like what I said with the sharp cut. NT likely doesn't have the experience doing transitioning at this speed and complexity. And Capcpom are one of the best in the business. But you can't rule-out poor cuts on animation due to the frame-rate. Maybe the engine is even running on 60fps animation sets (I doubt it though) and the cuts are based on the positioning of the 30fps related to input polling.
TL;DR - It's tough to say.
Just posting technical information.
They did another walkthrough, was that already posted?
http://pt-br.twitch.tv/capcomunity/b/320672063
http://pt-br.twitch.tv/capcomunity/b/320672063