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Gunman kills twelve at theater in Aurora Colorado

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I

ironcreed

Banned
Fugu said:
What's your evidence that he is a psychopath other than that he killed a whole bunch of people? Was he humiliated and abused as a child?

Psychopathy is more commonly associated with serial killers, not mass-murderers, by the way.
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Because if the guy was insane, he would be disfunctional and would not be competent enough to have been a candidate for a PHD in neuroscience. Insane people cannot function in society to such a degree, but psychopaths surely can. Because they know what they are doing.

As for him being abused as a child? I don't know, do you? Plenty of people have had rough childhoods, but that does not make them monsters. I am guessing we will learn more about the guy's past as time rolls on, but he was far too functional and smart of an individual to fit the classification of someone who is insane. He sure as hell fits the profile of a cold and calculating psychopath who felt he had an axe to grind, though.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
ironcreed said:
Because if the guy was insane, he would be disfunctional and would not be competent enough to have been a candidate for a PHD in neuroscience. Insane people cannot function in society to such a degree, but psychopaths surely can. Because they know what they are doing.
Click to expand...

He is at the age where schizophrenia starts to set in. It happens to completely normal people, then suddenly (on the average) begins to set in between the ages of 16 and 28. He was at the top of his class before he started slipping and suddenly dropped out. I'm not saying for sure that he is insane. We dont know enough yet to say either way.


But none of this matters because we are in the U.S. In the U.S. we take people who previously had untreated psychosis, treat it with drugs long enough to get him to look sane in court, then execute them.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
I H8 Memes said:
He is at the age where schizophrenia starts to set in. It happens to completely normal people, then suddenly (on the average) begins to set in between the ages of 16 and 28. He was at the top of his class before he started slipping and suddenly dropped out. I'm not saying for sure that he is insane. We dont know enough yet to say either way.


But none of this matters because we are in the U.S. In the U.S. we take people who previously had untreated psychosis, treat it with drugs long enough to get him to look sane in court, then execute them.
Click to expand...

I agree that we don't know enough. I am just going with what it appears to be and what those in the know are stating. The guy meticulously planned this out and even his own mother was not surprised. Looking forward to hearing a statement from the family today. Should be sometime this evening.
 
G

GJS

Member
ironcreed said:
Because if the guy was insane, he would be disfunctional and would not be competent enough to have been a candidate for a PHD in neuroscience. Insane people cannot function in society to such a degree, but psychopaths surely can. Because they know what they are doing.

As for him being abused as a child? I don't know, do you? Plenty of people have had rough childhoods, but that does not make them monsters. I am guessing we will learn more about the guy's past as time rolls on, but he was far too functional and smart of an individual to fit the classification of someone who is insane. He sure as hell fits the profile of a cold and calculating psychopath who felt he had an axe to grind, though.
Click to expand...

Mental disorders are not so cut and dry, a good chunk of them are diagnosed over a spectrum.

There are plenty of people out there with disorders that can have a number of significant symptoms which could lead to dangerous behaviour, yet still manage to maintain a high functioning life for a prolonged period of time. If it progresses and gets worse then you start to see them lose control of that function, but that doesn't necessarily happen to every single person.

And as has been said previously in this post on numerous occasions, the age range 18-24 or so is precisely when you most commonly start to see these disorders appearing and causing issues. Which coincides with either interrupting their studies, or appearing after they have graduated and moved on to the next thing, whether that be a masters, a PhD, a job, or whatever.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
Kibbles said:
Since when can you bring backpacks in theaters?
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My 6 year old is our smuggler. She has a cute little backpack that has her favorite stuffed animal in it... and a bunch of candy.

ironcreed said:
Expect that to change. Which is a good thing.
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AMC theaters already ban guns (using whatever legal means in that particular state to do so). Given his preparation with body armor, he likely targeted an AMC theater for that reason, not that concealed weapons are super common, but 1 or 2 people in a crowded theater could be licensed and carrying.

This guy did not SNEAK into a fucking theater with hidden weapons. He came outfitted for war. How would a metal detector make you safer if he came in through the silly secondary theater exit?

The only thing that might change is that they'll now alarm all the secondary exits... which would suck.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
GJS said:
Mental disorders are not so cut and dry, a good chunk of them are diagnosed over a spectrum.

There are plenty of people out there with disorders that can have a number of significant symptoms which could lead to dangerous behaviour, yet still manage to maintain a high functioning life for a prolonged period of time. If it progresses and gets worse then you start to see them lose control of that function, but that doesn't necessarily happen to every single person.

And as has been said previously in this post on numerous occasions, the age range 18-24 or so is precisely when you most commonly start to see these disorders appearing and causing issues. Which coincides with either interrupting their studies, or appearing after they have graduated and moved on to the next thing, whether that be a masters, a PhD, a job, or whatever.
Click to expand...

It's speculation at this point either way, but the classic psychopath who knew what they were doing seems to be the shoe that fits best according to most authorities right now, and I agree. Guess we shall see, but will not be surprised if there is an insanity plea. Not that I think it will do him any good.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
Yoritomo said:
My 6 year old is our smuggler. She has a cute little backpack that has her favorite stuffed animal in it... and a bunch of candy.



AMC theaters already ban guns (using whatever legal means in that particular state to do so).

This guy did not SNEAK into a fucking theater with hidden weapons. He came outfitted for war. How would a metal detector make you safer if he came in through the silly secondary theater exit?

The only thing that might change is that they'll now alarm all the secondary exits... which would suck.
Click to expand...

I know, he ran out to his car and propped the emergency exit door open. What I meant by my statement was that we can expect more security to be enforced in general. Which there is nothing wrong with, if it keeps people safe and can prevent something like this from happening again.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Yoritomo said:
My 6 year old is our smuggler. She has a cute little backpack that has her favorite stuffed animal in it... and a bunch of candy.



AMC theaters already ban guns (using whatever legal means in that particular state to do so). Given his preparation with body armor, he likely targeted an AMC theater for that reason, not that concealed weapons are super common, but 1 or 2 people in a crowded theater could be licensed and carrying.

This guy did not SNEAK into a fucking theater with hidden weapons. He came outfitted for war. How would a metal detector make you safer if he came in through the silly secondary theater exit?

The only thing that might change is that they'll now alarm all the secondary exits... which would suck.
Click to expand...
Why? It's only a minor inconvenience and it's a good idea.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
ironcreed said:
I know, he ran out to his car and propped the emergency exit door open. What I meant by my statement was that we can expect more security to be enforced in general. Which there is nothing wrong with, if it keeps people safe and can prevent something like this from happening again.
Click to expand...

It will be harder to sneak into a theater... maybe. The theaters will do what they need to but more overhead is not something they'll be fond of.

MThanded said:
Why?
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Because those exits are usually closer to where I park and can speed up the process of exiting the theater after a show. I guess they could have an automated system that disables the alarm after a show. But tripping the alarm will immediately mean lost revenue and angry customers. It's a balancing act. Would the increased security outweigh the irritation of a false alarm from a door? One false alarm that takes too long to resolve and you throw off the entire theater schedule, or you have to refund an entire theater for that showing.
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
He looks like a fucking crybaby in court holy shit what a fucking pussy. He keeps looking like he's about to cry.

His mom doesn't seem concerned about anyone other than their family. Edit: nvm that was family attorney but was reading the moms statement in first person. I walked in late so didn't get full context.

Anyone watching this live on CNN? I hate to do it but it's out there.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Yoritomo said:
It will be harder to sneak into a theater... maybe. The theaters will do what they need to but more overhead is not something they'll be fond of.



Because those exits are usually closer to where I park and can speed up the process of exiting the theater after a show. I guess they could have an automated system that disables the alarm after a show. But tripping the alarm will immediately mean lost revenue and angry customers. It's a balancing act. Would the increased security outweigh the irritation of a false alarm from a door? One false alarm that takes too long to resolve and you throw off the entire theater schedule, or you have to refund an entire theater for that showing.
Click to expand...
It will take you how much longer to get to your car?
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
MThanded said:
It will take you how much longer to get to your car?
Click to expand...

Address the false alarm issue and potential loss vs perception of safety and losses from people who sneak in without a ticket.

Shit isn't black and white. You could address my whole comment or we could argue at some moronic level of quips and soundbytes... your call.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Yoritomo said:
Address the false alarm issue and potential loss vs perception of safety and losses from people who sneak in without a ticket.

Shit isn't black and white.
Click to expand...
You put a big ass sign on the door saying its alarmed also warning people it's a misdemeanor for a false alarm. Which is already is in many jurisdictions. Alarmed doors exist in many buildings and the buildings work day to day without much impact.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
MThanded said:
You put a big ass sign on the door saying its alarmed also warning people it's a misdemeanor for a false alarm. Which is already is in many jurisdictions. Alarmed doors exist in many buildings and the buildings work day to day without much impact.
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Alarmed doors in many buildings aren't host to unsupervised teens and pre-teens. One false alarm = thousands of dollars, in other buildings the consequences aren't quite so high. Think about how much theaters loose to people letting friends in through those doors currently? Why don't they just put alarms on them?

That doesn't even count the primary exit doors not connected to any particular theater. So now we need a guard at all points of exit/entry? How much does that cost?
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Yoritomo said:
Alarmed doors in many buildings aren't host to unsupervised teens and pre-teens. One false alarm = thousands of dollars, in other buildings the consequences aren't quite so high. Think about how much theaters loose to people letting friends in through those doors currently? Why don't they just put alarms on them?

That doesn't even count the primary exit doors not connected to any particular theater. So now we need a guard at all points of exit/entry? How much does that cost?
Click to expand...
Risk mitigation is not free. I'm a safety engineer I understand. At some point you have to realize what's feasible and reasonable. Alarming the doors seems feasible and reasonable. A guard at the entrance does not.
 
B

BankaiZaraki

Banned
I really don't think this guy is mentally unstable. He just wanted to fuck shit up Joker style. Also if he wanted to kill anyone that entered the apartment, why did he tell the cops it was booby trapped? This part is killin me.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Yoritomo said:
Alarmed doors in many buildings aren't host to unsupervised teens and pre-teens. One false alarm = thousands of dollars, in other buildings the consequences aren't quite so high. Think about how much theaters loose to people letting friends in through those doors currently? Why don't they just put alarms on them?
Click to expand...

There's alarmed doors all over the place in stores and malls and gyms.



BankaiZaraki said:
I really don't think this guy is mentally unstable. He just wanted to fuck shit up Joker style. Also if he wanted to kill anyone that entered the apartment, why did he tell the cops it was booby trapped? This part is killin me.
Click to expand...

Does a person who wants to "fuck shit up Joker style" seem mentally stable to you?
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Does a person who wants to "fuck shit up Joker style" seem mentally stable to you?
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Guy spent months amassing arms and wiring his apartment. Even if he's maladjusted, he's within his mental capacities to premeditate the slaughter of several humans at once, and had the will to see it through over the course of 4 months.

Within the mental capacity=sane.

Fuck this guy.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
D4Danger said:
Anders Breivik was found to be criminally insane and he spent years planning his attack. Buying a farm so he could buy fertilizer without suspicion, getting the correct police uniform etc.

It's not as cut and dry as some people think. They want insane people to act crazy, to rant and shout like you'd see in a movie, but that's just not how it works.
Click to expand...

It may be different in Norway. In the US, to be not guilty by reason of insanity you have to either not be able to control your actions, unable to tell the difference between right and wrong, or not understand what you are doing.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
JzeroT1437 said:
Guy spent months amassing arms and wiring his apartment. Even if he's maladjusted, he's within his mental capacities to premeditate the slaughter of several humans at once, and had the will to see it through over the course of 4 months.

Within the mental capacity=sane.

Fuck this guy.
Click to expand...

i'm not saying he's legally insane. But he's obviously unstable. Read the post I was quoting. I would consider a gangbanger who shoots and kills someone because they are wearing the wrong colors to be unstable.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
MThanded said:
Risk mitigation is not free. I'm a safety engineer I understand. At some point you have to realize what's feasible and reasonable. Alarming the doors seems feasible and reasonable. A guard at the entrance does not.
Click to expand...

With just one alarmed door going off every theater in the building would have to evacuate. They have to keep all of the extra exit doors by law in case of a fire or other emergency. So the only alternative is to not alarm the doors and put a camera around them so 1 person can monitor everyone who comes and goes from the door, or have the doors equipped with an alarm and pay someone to stand next to every door for every hour the theater is showing movies. Cant just have it alarmed with camera monitoring as a camera isnt going to prevent shithead kids from running out just to trigger the alarm.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I H8 Memes said:
With just one alarmed door going off every theater in the building would have to evacuate. They have to keep all of the extra exit doors by law in case of a fire or other emergency. So the only alternative is to not alarm the doors and put a camera around them so 1 person can monitor everyone who comes and goes from the door, or have the doors equipped with an alarm and pay someone to stand next to every door for every hour the theater is showing movies. Cant just have it alarmed with camera monitoring as a camera isnt going to prevent shithead kids from running out just to trigger the alarm.
Click to expand...
Cameras seem feasible. You don't even have I watch them you just need them recording the exit do you can can go back and get evidence
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
i'm not saying he's legally insane. But he's obviously unstable. Read the post I was quoting. I would consider a gangbanger who shoots and kills someone because they are wearing the wrong colors to be unstable.
Click to expand...

The guy is certainly unstable, but it's going to be important to a lot of people that this guy gets the book thrown at him.

There's no way he can be incarcerated in any traditional manner either--the other inmates will kill this guy in days.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
I H8 Memes said:
With just one alarmed door going off every theater in the building would have to evacuate. They have to keep all of the extra exit doors by law in case of a fire or other emergency. So the only alternative is to not alarm the doors and put a camera around them so 1 person can monitor everyone who comes and goes from the door, or have the doors equipped with an alarm and pay someone to stand next to every door for every hour the theater is showing movies. Cant just have it alarmed with camera monitoring as a camera isnt going to prevent shithead kids from running out just to trigger the alarm.
Click to expand...

shitbag kids can do that in schools and malls with alarmed doors and fire alarms and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
S

Srsly

Banned
James Holmes could very well be mentally ill to the point where he was insane, despite the fact that he meticulously planned the attack. Bi-polar disorder often manifests in early adulthood. If Holmes was in a manic phase, he could have also been delusional/psychotic. Mania is often associated with creativity and the bomb set-up meant to distract police and the plan of attack were very creative.

Even while psychotic, someone with bi-polar disorder can appear to have all their mental faculties in tact. Sometimes manic episodes can last for months, followed by a sharp crash. It seems as if Holmes had been planning this for a couple of months. The mass shooting by holmes could have been the psychotic crescendo that culminated after a couple of months of mania. I lived with a bi-polar roommate. Holmes' expression in the courtroom looked just like my roommate did after crashing from an extended period of mania.
 
G

GJS

Member
I H8 Memes said:
With just one alarmed door going off every theater in the building would have to evacuate. They have to keep all of the extra exit doors by law in case of a fire or other emergency. So the only alternative is to not alarm the doors and put a camera around them so 1 person can monitor everyone who comes and goes from the door, or have the doors equipped with an alarm and pay someone to stand next to every door for every hour the theater is showing movies. Cant just have it alarmed with camera monitoring as a camera isnt going to prevent shithead kids from running out just to trigger the alarm.
Click to expand...

What about a silent alarm that informs the staff that the door is open, then have someone tell the stewards over a walkie talkie or something that it's open and they go and secure it.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
James Holmes mugshot
NHbeP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wprNx.jpg <- bigger version
 
K

Korey

Member
The back exits in theaters are not meant to be alarm doors. They are just quick access exits that yes, can be used for emergencies, but aren't necessarily only for that. That's why they're not alarmed.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Korey said:
The back exits in theaters are not meant to be alarm doors. They are just quick access exits that yes, can be used for emergencies, but aren't necessarily only for that. That's why they're not alarmed.
Click to expand...
I guarantee someone will put legislation in place to get those doors alarmed. At least in Colorado. Even if that's not their intent.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
GJS said:
What about a silent alarm that informs the staff that the door is open, then have someone tell the stewards over a walkie talkie or something that it's open and they go and secure it.
Click to expand...

the point of those alarms are to let the people know that they need to evacuate in case of fires or, in this case, rampaging shooters. Having them be silent would be kind of worthless.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
I H8 Memes said:
He is at the age where schizophrenia starts to set in. It happens to completely normal people, then suddenly (on the average) begins to set in between the ages of 16 and 28. He was at the top of his class before he started slipping and suddenly dropped out. I'm not saying for sure that he is insane. We dont know enough yet to say either way.

But none of this matters because we are in the U.S. In the U.S. we take people who previously had untreated psychosis, treat it with drugs long enough to get him to look sane in court, then execute them.
Click to expand...

This is about right. I will be curious to see what develops, but there is no question that mental illness cannot be ruled out based on what is known.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
I don't think alarms on doors is gonna stop anyone who is determined. It's sad but we need to accept that bad things will happen and it's best not to induce more tension and fear with over-the-top measures (TSA).
 
S

spindashing

Banned
ironcreed said:
Expect that to change. Which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Definitely. It's funny because there are two theaters that I usually frequent. One has a metal detector system installed, and the other one doesn't.

I don't like going to the one with the metal detector because the neighborhood is known to be more dangerous. I feel safer over there now, haha.

Edit:

MThanded said:
For the new page

James Holmes mugshot
NHbeP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wprNx.jpg <- bigger version
Click to expand...
Interesting how he started out with a confident photo in his first mugshot and now all that confidence is gone.
 
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