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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]

M

metalslimer

Member
Father_Brain said:
It probably won't be quite as bad as on Wii; I'm sure multiplatform support will benefit at least somewhat from having a modern GPU architecture, but I suspect the lifetime percentage of multiplats received will still end up closer to that of Wii than even GC.

Nintendo probably could have future-proofed it quite a bit more than they did at a fairly low additional cost, had they not been so set on keeping the size and power draw of the actual console as low as possible. Sigh.
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I'm still trying to figure out exactly how they are losing money on the system. The only thing I can think of is the exchange rate.

But if worst comes to worse and they find themselves in another 3DS scenario, I wonder what they'll end up doing
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They are already in loss territory so Nintendo as a company can't handle the type of losses that MS and Sony used to prop up the PS3/360 for the first half of this generation. I imagine they would just ride it out.
 
A

AstroNut325

Member
Amir0x said:
jesus...christ. This is legitimately going to make some larger world games impossible to port over without huge sacrifices once PS4 and Xbox 720 come out.

If it's not one thing it's another with Nintendo. :/
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Yup. Development of multi-platform titles will get more expensive partly due to more customizations and optimizations needed for Wii U.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
What happens in the scenario that the PS4 and Xbox 720 fail to attract a user-base?
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Gahiggidy said:
What happens in the scenario that the PS4 and Xbox 720 fail to attract a user-base?
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Then developers stick with PS3/360 while problems get sorted out. That would be a nightmare scenario for 3rd parties as they are probably spending a shit ton of money getting engines and games ready as we speak. Conceivably the PS3/360 generation could stretch on for another couple of years.
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
The way I see it, the 360 and PS3 will have healthy support even after their successors launch for at least a year, if not two or even longer. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 3 or 4 CODs see a release on 360/PS3, and EA sports titles will probably make an appearance for even longer.

After that point, however, I see troubling times for the Wii U.
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
metalslimer said:
Then developers stick with PS3/360 while problems get sorted out. That would be a nightmare scenario for 3rd parties as they are probably spending a shit ton of money getting engines and games ready as we speak. Conceivably the PS3/360 generation could stretch on for another couple of years.
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No doubt. Unless prices go up again on games, i dont see how any of the major publishers can forgo a PS360/U version of their major tentpoles for the next 2 years at minimum without serioulsy hurting their bottom line.
 
M

magash

Member
metalslimer said:
Then developers stick with PS3/360 while problems get sorted out. That would be a nightmare scenario for 3rd parties as they are probably spending a shit ton of money getting engines and games ready as we speak. Conceivably the PS3/360 generation could stretch on for another couple of years.
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That is what is more likely to happen.

People seem to also have forgotten that we are economically speaking worse off than we were in 2004/2005. Another thing is that 3rd party output is most likely going to be far smaller than this generation.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Besides this memory clock rate, is there any reason to be bearish on Wii U?

How much of the console's production costs are likely going towards the GPU/CPU/RAM?
 
M

MadeInBeats

Banned
Gemüsepizza;44529530 said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34909953&postcount=5407
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metalslimer said:
I actually feel bad for how people jumped down arkham's throat and pretty much called him a liar since pretty much everything he said is true.

Edit: I think developers won't even bother trying to port many games once PS4/720 come out if they are having a litte trouble with the PS3/360.
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Since people are quoting Arkam:

Arkam said:
Originally Posted by bgassassin:
Have (some of) your impressions "lightened up" since January? :p
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Some yes. But the same problems are still present if you are porting a game over from the Xbox360. So if companies dont want to invest retooling games, you will get crappy(downgraded) ports.


That said,I am nothing but excited for the console and cant't wait to see the first round of games made from the ground up on the WiiU. That is when we will see what this little beast can do!
Click to expand...
 
V

v1oz

Member
This is what Arkam said. Basically specs are disappointing. The CPU is enhanced Broadway. Memory is slow. No mention of eDram.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34909953&postcount=5407

Arkam said:
Fair enough. Not sure what I can say that will back my claims up without getting my self in trouble. But I will try to clarify a bit without getting too specific.

The current Wii U dev kit i am talking about (not this supposed new one in the last few weeks) Is slightly LESS powerful than the Xbox 360. What I mean by that is that we would have to scale back/change our Xbox/PS3 games to run on the console. Its a tri core out of order cpu with 1GB of pretty slow ram and a decently featured gpu that lacks raw muscle. Its good and efficient, just not that powerful. As we all know they can change it and according to rumors they have. But nothing they can do this late in the game is going to dramatically change its performance. When it ships it will be in the ball park of the Xbox 360/PS3 (give or take a little). But in no way will it be 2x or more powerful then the HD twins. Just not happening.

I am a huge Nintendo fanboy, so I am disappointed that they are not putting more power in the box. Nintendo will have no problem making great looking games on it, and 3rd party studios will be able to port games from 360/ps3. But when ever MS/Sony show their next consoles it might not be so true.

So believe it or not. Either way is cool by me.
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Arkam said:
Now I'm shady? Its not my fault I am not an engineer and call them like the docs say. About the cpu I am sure of this. The term "enhanced broadway" is straight from nintendo.
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P

Perkel

Banned
dr. apocalipsis said:
Most intensive bandwidth stuff will run on eDRAM.

You DON'T need crazy numbers at system ram, as PC's proves:

hl2.png


To those chip counters, go count low end GPU's with crazy low density chip numbers and 128 bits of BUS. Counting chips it's only a guess. And you don't have any clue of latencies either.
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I'm dying here people.

1. PC have Vram on graphic cards which is main pool not normal Ram which is nice to have fast but it isn't like Vram.
2. Good ram can only if game is more advanced where assets which are very big need to be loaded fucking fast, add bazylion of effects like in Crysis 2 and that is place when good high speed ram will matter.
 
G

Guerrillas in the Mist

Member
magash said:
That is what is more likely to happen.

People seem to also have forgotten that we are economically speaking worse off than we were in 2004/2005. Another thing is that 3rd party output is most likely going to be far smaller than this generation.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that the Xbox and Gamecube were in a much weaker position (more or less dead in the latter's case) when the current generation came around. The PS2 received strong suppport for a number of years afterwards, especially as it was the casual console of choice for a long time. Meanwhile, the PS3 and 360 continue to do well, and will breach 150 million soon if they haven't already.

The current generation of consoles are going to go out very slowly.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Arkam was always full legit, we made sure of that. He kept posting, every now and then, in other threads, including the last spec thread that I made. Sadly his voice of reason was lost beneath the 'speculation'.

EDIT: I should note we confirmed Arkam legit around that post, and people still swept it under the rug.
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
EatChildren said:
Arkam was always full legit, we made sure of that. He kept posting, every now and then, in other threads, including the last spec thread that I made. Sadly his voice of reason was lost beneath the 'speculation'.
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I can only imagine if AceBandage has been lurking these past couple days. I wonder if he pretends to type rebuttals. Hope news hasn't sapped his last hold on reality.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.
 
M

MadeInBeats

Banned
Glorified G said:
The hivemind in those threads were amazing.
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Hoo-doo said:
Damn, I still remember the Nintendo mob in that thread completely tearing him to shreds. Nobody could believe it would ever be that bad, but here we are.
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Hive mind? And yet the quote from Arkam I posted above a few minutes ago (made after his RAM speed post) is just totally ignored like it isn't there :)

You guys are amazing haha.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42010101&postcount=1420
 
F

Falch

Member
Gahiggidy said:
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.
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Well, every developer is bounded by the hardware it works on. I wouldn't expect wonders.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Gahiggidy said:
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine the console itself costs $300+ to manufacture, as the controller is what drives the price up, not the HW inside the Wii U itself. Besides, the PS3 originally cost like $800 to manufacture, yet you didn't see it having 'plenty of performance' compared to the 360.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Gahiggidy said:
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.
Click to expand...

Unless the gamepad is soaking up a lot of resources. Hell production costs can be spent on a lot of things. Look at the Nexus 7. It's much weaker than the PS3/360 and costs 200 dollars to make.
 
H

Hoo-doo

Banned
MadeInBeats said:
Hive mind? And yet the quote from Arkam I posted above a few minutes ago (made after his RAM speed post) is just totally ignored like it isn't there :)

You guys are amazing haha.
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What in the post you quoted invalidates his previous statements?

And I try to instinctively gloss over your posts these past few days, it keeps me sane. ;)
 
D

Diablos54

Member
MadeInBeats said:
Hive mind? And yet the quote from Arkam I posted above a few minutes ago (made after his RAM speed post) is just totally ignored like it isn't there :)

You guys are amazing haha.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42010101&postcount=1420
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So 360 ports will suck, and the Wii U will depend on games built from the ground up to impress? Because some people have said that and got 'LOL SLOW RAM' as a response. At least we have confirmation.

metalslimer said:
Always said arkham was legit.
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We've known he was legit for months now, I don't why some of you are so surprised. :p
 
V

v1oz

Member
Gahiggidy said:
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.
Click to expand...
I refuse to believe Nintendo sells this machine at a small loss. If they do they are getting screwed by their partners.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
The controller can't be more than $80 to produce, leaving plenty of budget for the console's guts. We'll know more when Nintendo releases the replacement price of the Gamepad.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
MadeInBeats said:
Hive mind? And yet the quote from Arkam I posted above a few minutes ago (made after his RAM speed post) is just totally ignored like it isn't there :)

You guys are amazing haha.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42010101&postcount=1420
Click to expand...
That post doesn't contradict the other one at all though. He says lazy ports will suck, and of course they have, and he's looking forward to seeing the dedicated ground up games, from the 'little beast'. But he also said the little beast will be on par with PS360 in the other post. I take that to mean he is looking forward to seeing the Halo 4's and God of War's of the Wii U, not that he expects anything notably beyond the realm of the HD Twins.

I think everyone expects that at this point though.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Does slower RAM use less electricity? Generate less heat?
 
M

metalslimer

Member
StuBurns said:
That post doesn't contradict the other one at all though. He says lazy ports will suck, and of course they have, and he's looking forward to seeing the dedicated ground up games, from the 'little beast'. But he also said the little beast will be on par with PS360 in the other post. I take that to mean he is looking forward to seeing the Halo 4's and God of War's of the Wii U, not that he expects anything notably beyond the realm of the HD Twins.

I think everyone expects that at this point though.
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Pretty much. He's a Nintendo fan and is looking forward to the great looking games that will come out the system.

Wouldn't they be lying to their stockholders then ?
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People refused to believe the 3DS is sold at loss as well. Most people seem oblivious that stuff doesn't make itself for free.
 
M

MadeInBeats

Banned
Hoo-doo said:
What in the post you quoted invalidates his previous statements?

And I try to instinctively gloss over your posts these past few days, it keeps me sane. ;)
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Well, if you're breaking it down to semantics, no, but the end result, yes. Games will perform poorly is developers can't be arsed... look, it's from Arkam, confirmed legit...

If I were you, I'd gloss over my posts too ;)
 
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