lead like a fox.
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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
lead like a fox.
We aren't near to the point where the hardware can do anything you think up. Physics and AI has a ways to go. Parallel Computing is making a return. Nintendo messed up. They would have been better off building a system that rides the current wave of change instead of going with old tech and a tablet controller.
Joeshabadoo
Member
there have only been 4 NSMB games in over six years, and we wont be seeing any more until new platforms are released (so a while). Aside from that it should be considered a spin-off series and are extremely high quality games. People just get hung up on the fact that they look similar. The proper Mario franchise iterations are separate (64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Galaxy 2 etc.) also what Taurus said
test_account
XP-39C²
Nintendo doesnt control the gaming industry. If Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony had stopped making games, there would be a lot of other companies that would still make games.
It is important for Nintendo that they are successful in the gaming business though since that is pretty much all that they're doing and they dont have anything else to fall back on right now.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I can't see it being pricier than GDDR though. I just bought 32GB of full size DDR3 for like $100.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The DDR3 in the Wii U is different. Its more akin to the RAM in your iPhone/iPad/Android equivalents.
lightchris
Member
In terms of main RAM bandwidth about 5 Gamecubes (12.8 GB/s vs 2.7 GB/s) and in terms of main RAM size 40 Gamecubes (1024 MB vs 24 MB). Satisfied with that answer?
I'm playing great looking 720p and 1080p games, that run great, and controlling them with a pretty nice tablet controller with both touch controls and physical ones? This console feels new, and feels pretty fresh.
Time will tell if I feel this way in a couple of years, but....
With Wii U, Nintendo catches up to current display and audio tech. The biggest issues I had with Wii were the resolution and the poor audio. Those problems are gone. 1080p games with 5.1 LPCM? Fuck yeah. Add quality Nintendo gameplay on top? I don't think I'll be disappointed in the Wii U once the other 2 tech heavy consoles hit.
Time will tell if I feel this way in a couple of years, but....
With Wii U, Nintendo catches up to current display and audio tech. The biggest issues I had with Wii were the resolution and the poor audio. Those problems are gone. 1080p games with 5.1 LPCM? Fuck yeah. Add quality Nintendo gameplay on top? I don't think I'll be disappointed in the Wii U once the other 2 tech heavy consoles hit.
Guh? I thought the whole point of going with tis tech in the first place was cause it would be cheaper?
Do you have any credible proof that foreshadows the doom of the industry if Nintendo were to crash? I don't want them to leave the industry nor do I care for Nintendo franchises. So as a person who has relied on PC and then HD consoles for gaming, I am oblivious a clause that outlines the impending demise of the gaming industry contingent on the absence of Nintendo from gaming world.
Firstly, MS and Sony aren't buying RAM at retail price. Secondly, the RAM bus bandwidth for PS3/360 was 128 bit which although somewhat anaemic by today's standard is double of WiiU's 64 bit. So at worst, if speed and bus width were to remain the same with upped capacity, it'd still be better than what Nintendo decided to do with Wii U.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
they're smaller low-power, low heat, 'fast' chips. Not exactly the DDR3 that appears in your desktop.
Brad Grenz
Member
No they didn't. I've seen no indication they're using LPDDR3. We know exactly what RAM they are using, and it's as basic, commodity RAM as you can buy. It is lower power than specialized, faster GDDR3/5, but that doesn't mean it is "low power".
Yea, I have to give credit to Nintendo for pure efficiency. Under 40W stress load. Similar performance 7 years ago would have required between 6 and 7 times the power.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
From one of the teardowns they're using Micron DDR3L, the same chip here
http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Data Sheet/DRAM/4Gb_1_35V_DDR3L.pdf
The teardown: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2
"DDR3L SDRAM (1.35V) is a low voltage version of the
DDR3 SDRAM (1.5V)."
But you're right, it's not exactly the same used in ipods. That was hyperbole
We're in a pretty confused situation when you got people wondering if the WiiU can be on par with 360, and other people are guessing that it will be the lead platform next gen..
Anyway, if this situation occurs, right now, it's cause, if indeed, the WiiU has a way to push something more modern than a 360, like we've heard here since forever, well there isn't ANY proof of it after it's already launched.
At last E3 i was saying that Nintendo missed his last opportunity to impress gamers while they still hadn't a concrete idea of next gen graphics. And by that i mean the mainstream gamer, not the one that goes on gaf.
This missed E3 and the period after, then the launch line up now, have deeply printed the idea that the WiiU is on par or even lower than the actual consoles.
This is Nintendo fault IF they actually designed the console to be that graphically cheap.
If this is just launch mess, and the console can delivers way more, this IS STILL nintendo's fault cause they did nothing to show that.
Did they focused entirely on the difficult gamepad steaming problem ? I don't know but i fear this technical miracle is pretty invisible to people, and won't matter that much. Even a simpler, cheapest technology of tactile screen in any next gen console pad will be enough to deliver the same type of gameplay idea as ZombieU... I doubt this difference stays as long as the motion control did.
But anyway. I'll put it simply.
To me there was a window where Nintendo could play the "omg, i don't know what next gen will be but this looks next gen to me, and i won't be waiting for 2 years!" card. Just look at the Zelda demo (when it's 10 years old models and 720p..) reaction.
Now they missed that, and people know the WiiU won't be a first step into future.
That doesn't look good for the west. In Japan, things are different.
Anyway, if this situation occurs, right now, it's cause, if indeed, the WiiU has a way to push something more modern than a 360, like we've heard here since forever, well there isn't ANY proof of it after it's already launched.
At last E3 i was saying that Nintendo missed his last opportunity to impress gamers while they still hadn't a concrete idea of next gen graphics. And by that i mean the mainstream gamer, not the one that goes on gaf.
This missed E3 and the period after, then the launch line up now, have deeply printed the idea that the WiiU is on par or even lower than the actual consoles.
This is Nintendo fault IF they actually designed the console to be that graphically cheap.
If this is just launch mess, and the console can delivers way more, this IS STILL nintendo's fault cause they did nothing to show that.
Did they focused entirely on the difficult gamepad steaming problem ? I don't know but i fear this technical miracle is pretty invisible to people, and won't matter that much. Even a simpler, cheapest technology of tactile screen in any next gen console pad will be enough to deliver the same type of gameplay idea as ZombieU... I doubt this difference stays as long as the motion control did.
But anyway. I'll put it simply.
To me there was a window where Nintendo could play the "omg, i don't know what next gen will be but this looks next gen to me, and i won't be waiting for 2 years!" card. Just look at the Zelda demo (when it's 10 years old models and 720p..) reaction.
Now they missed that, and people know the WiiU won't be a first step into future.
That doesn't look good for the west. In Japan, things are different.
You mean a game that runs great on the Wii?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
I think people are projecting goals on Nintendo that they never had in the first place. My guess is that Nintendo pretty much ignored the 360/PS3 architecture entirely and wanted the Wii U to merely be an HD console that streams to a tablet controller and based their entire design around that end goal, competition be damned. I think a lot of people thought Nintendo had "changed their tune" so to speak after the Wii and decided to pull back to satisfying a particular graphical standard. Evidently, that isn't the case at all. I imagine if someone directly said to a Nintendo guy "The Wii U can't do x and y tech as well as the 360 can." the immediate response would be "Yeah, so what?"
I'm not sure how well that'll work out for third parties but then, the entire gaming industry is in a pretty volatile state right now (a more or less self-inflicted volatility mind you, but that's another topic).
Shouldn't AMD and IBM be the ones getting credit there? lol
Except they openly admitted the Wii was in some way a failure and that they suffered from being out of the loop for big multi titles. That's what's we're discussing right here. And they didn't show anything to prove the situation would be different now. The only thing they're showing with this launch is that the WiiU is no yet ready to compete with the actual 7 years old market for those titles. If what they aim is to compete with PS3 and 360 for the next years, well... ok, nice for them. It's like trying to reach a sinking ship...
They could get double the bandwidth using more chips fairly easily. That would give them ram with speeds approximately the same as current 360/PS3, and then hopefully with more edram for the heavy bandwidth stuff
Brad Grenz
Member
From one of the teardowns they're using Micron DDR3L, the same chip here
http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Data Sheet/DRAM/4Gb_1_35V_DDR3L.pdf
The teardown: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2
"DDR3L SDRAM (1.35V) is a low voltage version of the
DDR3 SDRAM (1.5V)."
But you're right, it's not exactly the same used in ipods. That was hyperbole
Now where's your evidence they're paying some kind of premium to save .15 volts, and not just ordering a bulk park at their desired voltage (which happens to be slightly different from the 1.5 volt standard for DIMMs)?
Extra Sauce
Member
Only for marketing reasons.
Teletraan1
Banned
I have thought from the beginning of the PS4/720 speculation that I think they will both have the same amount of fast VRAM and various amounts of DDR3 ram on top of that. I dont think split memory pools are as disastrous as the PS3 made them out to be. If both companies have the same amount of vram there will be no issue. I say 1-2GB GDDR5 and 2-4GB DDR3. I just think that going full blown GDDR5 is too expensive...and full blown DDR3 is too slow. Unless they Rigby out these systems with exotic not on the market memory tech I cant see them doing it any other way that makes sense.
Doesn't using more memory chips mean that the motherboard has to be more complex thus raising the price of the console?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Its a much newer part, man. If it were cheaper, it would be used everywhere since there are literally very few if any downfalls to using it instead of DDR3.
More expensive longer life laptops tend to use DDR3L, the ones made by HP and Chinese manufacturers use DDR3.
And the difference can be anywhere from 20-40% in power savings.
It's like Nintendo asked what is the cheapest, highest yield lower voltage RAM available. of course theres an even smaller variation but that would yield even more criticism and higher prices.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
It would be a terrible decision at this point to buy a Wii U unless you're that much of a Nintendo fan or are really interested in one of the launch "window" games. Until we hear about more upcoming titles, the hardware and the poor third-party support should be a huge turn-off for any potential buyers.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
It's not that much of a newer/more expensive part, Crucial have been using those exact same 1.35v Micron chip on their value range (cheap! £27 for 8Gb) PC-1600 DIMM's for quite a while, at least since Jan/Feb when I bought my 8Gb (2x4Gb) sticks.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Quite the opposite. 1080p being "full HD" was a marketing ploy by Sony.
HD is official standard meaning 1280x720
Full HD was created by sony and it is not official standard. But whole industry uses it anyway
gamergirly
Member
Development doesnt stop on December 31, 2012
Time for Fox Sports to throw away their cameras.
Fourth Storm
Member
Honestly, who cares if it uses DDR3, DDR3L, gDDR3, LPDDR3, or whatever? It's the same shitty bandwidth no matter what!
Damn, in all the endless speculation, I never considered Nintendo enlisting multiple RAM manufacturers. It really keeps them at a lowest common denominator as far as performance goes. :\
inpHilltr8r
Member
How about a big ass pad with a second screen? Sacrificing that probably gets you some money back for memory.
if you are implying Nintendo shouldn't have gone with the second pad, i don't see why not. it is a unique selling point that will give it a selling point over the other two consoles, and better specs likely wouldn't benefit Nintendo in the same way.
Fourth Storm
Member
I think the bulk of us are still trying to figure out how all the components in the controller add up to so much that they felt a sacrifice was necessary. Maybe Nintendo's partners decided they were gonna play hardball, but if deals were going down around 2009, the Wii was selling like gangbusters. You'd think they'd have gotten some negotiating leverage from that...
Brad Grenz
Member
Exactly. Acting like it is some premium version of DDR3 is pure nonsense.
DragonSworne
Banned
The lose of revenue from Nintendo would cripple the industry.
Just look at the lack of Wii sales and what it has done to the market. Without Nintendo, a huge void in the industry would exist that couldn't be filled anytime soon.
Just look at the lack of Wii sales and what it has done to the market. Without Nintendo, a huge void in the industry would exist that couldn't be filled anytime soon.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
That's what I was thinking
Yeah I kinda guess that but the Ram thing confused me
Thunder Monkey
Banned
They weren't.
Newer than standard DDR3? Yes, they did say that. And yes it's true. Didn't see anything in the Abominable's post that alluded to it being any premium form. A little more costly sure.
Some people just need to take a step back and stop acting like everyone disagreeing the WiiU is uniformly weak and outdated is some crazy deluded Nintendo fan. It's really not a weak system.
Strangely designed from the norm? Definitely.
Comparable to the 6 year old efforts of Sony and MS? Duh.
But in no way is any of that weak. It wasn't last year, it won't be ten years from now. You'll still be able to create a title like Last of Us or Beyond on it. That is the likely ceiling. While that ceiling will continue to rise with newer more powerful hardware... how does that make the games that came before worthless or ugly?
It doesn't. The only time it has is in the N64 era. And that's back when you were lucky to achieve a character model of 800 polygons. Once you start getting well designed character models at 30,000 polygons with normals to simulate much higher poly counts it starts becoming much more difficult to create noticeably improved character models with more polies. Higher res normals would help much more.
Basic IQ? That can always be improved. And in this WiiU falls short. But I don't expect the most marvelous of endeavors in that arena on Orbis or Durango either. Resolution and Image Quality are always the first things sacrificed in console gaming. To free up resources for whatever is viewed as necessary.
So we all need to take a step back. I don't want to see anyone banned for going crazier than usual.
Nintendo "catches up" to 7 years ago. Did you not have a 360 or PS3 to think these graphics are "great" looking? Genuine question.
xxbrothawizxx63
Member
360 is even better. Only 32mb.