Support NeoGAF

[Captain Smoker]

Industry as a whole down by percentage and luanching at a different time of the year

Well, in December you have bigger numbers than in October, but the position is inferior, so it should be somewhat balanced.

And we can't see the effects on the actual sales without actual sales numbers @ bolded part.


Actually, we can't make an exact analysis without any kind of numbers, wish we would have ELSPA Sales Awards back at least . -.-

 

[radioheadrule83]

Posting wonderbukake again, because its probably an effective euphemism for how Sony feel about its success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5v2vfbH6Dg

 

[Mpl90]

The biggest irony is that, with numbers for just one title per week, we have more official numbers from GFK than from NPD.

 

[Pie and Beans]

A lot of that could be the bundle for £180 which includes camera, move, 12gb ps3 and book of smells.

So Sony have essentially constructed and sold an HD console successor to the Nintendo Wii in the UK marketplace through bundling and aggressive marketing. On Wonderbook alone. WONDERBOOK.

 

[Rolf NB]

Its not even just a case of this not exactly being a COD or Fifa, heres the secret magic eye fucking reveal moment of why Wonderbook selling more than the Wii U's top titles is astounding:

Its fucking Playstation Move required.

Yes, thats right, the punchline that became so unfunny to even keep trolling sales data with that was Playstation Move, has actually found a killer app. There is now a Playstation Move install base and the additional peripheral that is the Wonderbook that is selling more than the latest Nintendo console. BAM. YOUR MIND JUST EXPLODED.

Move, despite GAF's common disrespect, has an install base of more than ten times the Wii U at this point. Which means if you sell a Move game to 5% of the Move base, you'd have to sell a Wii U game to at least 50% of the Wii U base to have a shot at pulling even.

This is a completely expected, common, uneventful near-launch phenomenon.

In percentage terms though, the Wii U base will grow much faster. I.e. it might achieve an incremental 20%~30% base growth every week for the next month or two. Yes, that is because its base is small now. But even so, those ratios are going to shift a lot in the coming weeks. It's not an indication for a problem with the platform.

Spoiler

I see many problems with the platform, make no mistake; but this Move vs Wii U performance just doesn't prove anything right now.

 

[metalslimer]

So Sony have essentially constructed and sold an HD console successor to the Nintendo Wii in the UK marketplace through bundling and aggressive marketing. On Wonderbook alone. WONDERBOOK.

uh....

 

[zomgbbqftw]

A lot of that could be the bundle for £180 which includes camera, move, 12gb ps3 and book of smells.

Almost all I would bet. I've sent another slew of emails out to retail sources asking how sales of Wii U is going in week two, we'll see what they say this time. I can't wait for the gloating email from the guy who said Wonderbook+12GB PS3 would outperform Wii U.

Something to note, Nintendo still haven't released anything about first week sales in the UK, which points to very poor sales.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Something to note, Nintendo still haven't released anything about first week sales in the UK, which points to very poor sales.

Feel bad for that James guy that said they'd maybe have a top five entry but definitely have a title in the Top Ten. 11! So close!

 

[velvet_nitemare]

3DS isn't doing too hot either. NSMB 2 is clearly not the system seller Nintendo were hoping it would be.

 

[Father_Brain]

I'm not naive enough to think that showing more of the 2013 lineup would solve all of Wii U's problems, but the whole Launch Window Only (Until It Slips Into Q2) thing is easily one of the most inexplicable decisions Nintendo has ever made. Which is saying a lot.

 

[radioheadrule83]

3DS isn't doing too hot either. NSMB 2 is clearly not the system seller Nintendo were hoping it would be.

There's a good part in that Eurogamer interview posted earlier where Eurogamer are like "You really think Paper Mario is enough? People have been waiting for Animal Crossing for 2 years, and waiting a year since Luigi's Mansion was announced.." and they basically respond "Yes we do"... and I think they're wrong. There is plenty of cool stuff already out if you like Nintendo games and DS staples like Layton, but there is almost nothing cool coming to 3DS again before February and March. As for Mario...

3D Land >>>>>>> NSMB2
NSMBU >>>>> NSMB2

And while it lasts, Vita has better western support. Activision, EA and Ubisoft just don't seem to particularly care.

 

[EagleEyes]

Move, despite GAF's common disrespect, has an install base of more than ten times the Wii U at this point. Which means if you sell a Move game to 5% of the Move base, you'd have to sell a Wii U game to at least 50% of the Wii U base to have a shot at pulling even.

This is a completely expected, common, uneventful near-launch phenomenon.

In percentage terms though, the Wii U base will grow much faster. I.e. it might achieve an incremental 20%~30% base growth every week for the next month or two. Yes, that is because its base is small now. But even so, those ratios are going to shift a lot in the coming weeks. It's not an indication for a problem with the platform.

Spoiler

I see many problems with the platform, make no mistake; but this Move vs Wii U performance just doesn't prove anything right now.

How in the world do you know what the install base for the Move is? Every person that bought a Move more than likely has multiple wands and Sony has counted every wand they've shipped worldwide with those figures they released last month.

 

[Miles X]

Haven't you been arguing for months that Vita will be fine lol?

Wasn't he banging on about Wonderbook being fine and the type of product to have good legs ...

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

So Sony have essentially constructed and sold an HD console successor to the Nintendo Wii in the UK marketplace through bundling and aggressive marketing. On Wonderbook alone. WONDERBOOK.

PS3 sales of perrenial Wii favorites like Just Dance or Skylanders paint quite a different picture. Wii's successor is still unnamed.

If anything it looks more like 360 has a better shot at stepping in as the Wii successor. Which is humorous as it also beat out PS3 soundly for the title of PS2 successor.

 

[Rolf NB]

How in the world do you know what the install base for the Move is? Every person that bought a Move more than likely has multiple wands and Sony has counted every wand they've shipped worldwide with those figures they released last month.

Ahuahuahua.

 

[EagleEyes]

Ahuahuahua.

Nice deflection. Still didn't answer my question which I suspected would be the case.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

PS3 sales of perrenial Wii favorites like Just Dance or Skylanders paint quite a different picture. Wii's successor is still unnamed.

If anything it looks more like 360 has a better shot at stepping in as the Wii successor. Which is humorous as it also beat out PS3 soundly for the title of PS2 successor.

Considering that Wonderbook is a brand new product and concept it will take time to build a picture as to how popular it is. However, from the three weeks it has been out, the performance has not been as bad as everyone thought and Sony have had godlike marketing in the UK for it. Every third advert on the main channels is for Wonderbook + PS3 "be a student at Hogwarts!".

 

[Rolf NB]

Nice deflection. Still didn't answer my question which I suspected would be the case.

You answered your question yourself. The figures were released.
Now tell me what the Wii U install base is, compare them, and thank me for being conservative with my ratios.

 

[EagleEyes]

You answered your question yourself. The figures were released.
Now tell me what the Wii U install base is, compare them, and thank me for being conservative with my ratios.

What figures? The 15 million wands shipped? What does that have to do with the actual install base? The abysmal software sales for the Move should tell you the real story of the actual install base.

 

[jrDev]

Nintendo released the WiiU too late.

The WiiU should've been released somewhere in 2010. By doing that, Nintendo could also think about releasing a new console in 2014/2015 that could actually compete with the competition.

I'm starting to realize how this could've benefitted them alot. It's pretty early though and this is Nintendo, I've been bit in the ass for doubting them multiple times especially with the IP they have...

 

[Miles X]

What figures? The 15 million wands shipped? What does that have to do with the actual install base? The abysmal software sales for the Move should tell you the real story of the actual install base.

AFAIK the move figure includes Nav as well (it did in a previous figure they gave anyway, not sure why they'd change for this update)

Move clearly isn't at 10m+ install base WW.

 

[Rolf NB]

What figures? The 15 million wands shipped? What does that have to do with the actual install base? The abysmal software sales for the Move should tell you the real story of the actual install base.

I get the distinct impression you have no clue how this conversation even started. This isn't even about whether or not Move sales, software or otherwise, are good or bad or anything in between. This is about the expected and completely normal lower performance of software on a platform that just launched vs a platform that is much, much more* widespread.

*if fuzzy adjectives make you feel better than numerical ratios, even estimated ones, here, this one's for you

 

[Clay Davis]

My god, UK market is really dying. Funny that some time ago, people were saying it would have been overcome Japan, lol.

based on what? software sales for the playstation 3 and xbox 360 haven't collapsed from what I've been able to gather. in fact, sales seem to be on par with the kinds of figures we see from the us in npd.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm starting to realize how this could've benefitted them alot. It's pretty early though and this is Nintendo, I've been bit in the ass for doubting them multiple times especially with the IP they have...

Sure, they'll get good games out...eventually.

They just haven't given a real compelling reason to buy the console now, and you can always wait a year or two for the games to stack up.

 

[dabra]

Italy:
Week 48, 2012 - Individual Console Formats (Units)

01 (01) [PS3] Call of Duty : Black Ops 2 (Activision-Blizzard)
02 (02) [PS3] FIFA 13 (Electronic Arts)
03 (04) [WII] Just Dance 4 D1 Version (Ubisoft)
04 (03) [360] Call of Duty : Black Ops 2 (Activision-Blizzard)
05 (07) [360] FIFA 13 (Electronic Arts)
06 (06) [PS3] Assassin's Creed III D1 Version (Ubisoft)
07 (__) [PS3] Far Cry 3 D1 Lost Expedition (Ubisoft)
08 (10) [3DS] New Super Mario Bros. 2 (Nintendo)
09 (08) [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 (Konami)
10 (__) [WII] Just Dance 4 (Ubisoft)

 

[Bumhead]

3DS isn't doing too hot either. NSMB 2 is clearly not the system seller Nintendo were hoping it would be.

I wonder if Nintendo rode the crest of a wave of nostalgia with the Wii and people are now done with that stuff?

Everyone got swept up with the Wii and I know plenty of people who once they bought one, ended up buying Nintendo software for it because they recognised the brands from their childhood. Quite a lot of my mates who I'd otherwise consider as "non gamers" most of the time bought a Wii, then bought Mario Kart for it because "Woa Mario Kart 64 was amazing!" or whatever. But are those the people that are going to carry on buying systems to play that game? They didn't play Mario Kart Wii for very long. Kind of got bored of it after a while and moved back on to FIFA. That nostalgia hit worked for what they wanted from a new Mario Kart but now they're done and don't need that again. They're sure as hell not rushing out to buy a new £300 console to play versions of games they vaguely recognise from the N64 again in a hurry.

Same with NSMB, maybe? NSMB and NSMBW sort of exploded sales wise as the millions of DS and Wii owners realised they could play a new version of that game they loved so much when they were kids. Are they buying a 3DS so they can carry on playing it? Do they need to carry on buying hardware to continue relieving that experience? I'm not so sure.

 

[Saiyar]

AFAIK the move figure includes Nav as well (it did in a previous figure they gave anyway, not sure why they'd change for this update)

Move clearly isn't at 10m+ install base WW.

The PR specifically said that it was 15 million move motion controllers sold. If it was including sales of the move navigation controller they would just have said "move controllers".

 

[m.i.s.]

based on what? software sales for the playstation 3 and xbox 360 haven't collapsed from what I've been able to gather. in fact, sales seem to be on par with the kinds of figures we see from the us in npd.

I think it goes something like: "Wii U hardware / software is not selling well, therefore, the bottom is falling out of the videogame market. Vita sales collapsing, everything is tickety-boo!!!".

p

 

[Clay Davis]

I think it goes something like: "Wii U hardware / software is not selling well, therefore, the bottom is falling out of the videogame market. Vita sales collapsing, everything is tickety-boo!!!".

p

I had hoped it wasn't as simple as that. I am hopeful he will venture back into the thread and explain his post, I would very much like to know why he thinks the UK market is dying when it appears to be anything but near death.

 

[test_account]

And 'turning the PS3 around' was only possible with severe financial losses, it can't be regarded as successful in hindsight at all.

The alternative would be to do nothing, hoping that things would pick up as time went by. Sony managed to redesign the console, which cut the production costs. Doing so, they could also drop the retail price PS3 without taking huge losses. This increase the chance a lot for the PS3 to stay relevant in the market. It was said that Sony lost about $200 on each sold PS3 at launch, while now it is said that they make profit on the PS3 hardware. I think this is what people are referring to when they say that the PS3 turn around was successful.

Personally, i also think that Microsoft handled the Red Ring Of Death for Xbox 360 successfully eventhough that it cost them about 1 billion dollar.

Nintendo doesn't have unrelated diversified businesses to rely on for revenue, gaming is all they have. With the Wii U they would have to turn around their entire business plan and game development direction, because currently they are offering something very few buyers demanded.

That is true, but Nintendo did manage to turn around the 3DS, espcially in Japan. I also concider the 3DS turnaround in Japan to be very successful eventhough that it is selling for 10k yen less than Nintendo initially planned for. Nintendo had to do a big change in the business plan for the 3DS, but i think it was for the better. I think maybe it can be possible to do something for the WiiU too (if the sales doesnt pick up that is).

GBA was a boon for sure, but GC itself was incredibly profitable with a better attach rate than even 360. Even though GC moved roughly half as much software as GBA (versus roughly a quarter the userbase), manufacting costs kept margins much more slim on GBA. Even "fucking up" console side, Nintendo made far more money than SCE or MS on their consoles.

Are there any numbers for the Gamecube profitability and attach ratio? Do you mean in the UK only or worldwide?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

WiiU software bomba.

 

[Miles X]

The PR specifically said that it was 15 million move motion controllers sold. If it was including sales of the move navigation controller they would just have said "move controllers".

I'll try and find the last press release for you, pretty sure it said the same with a *includes nav controller

 

[Saiyar]

I'll try and find the last press release for you, pretty sure it said the same with a *includes nav controller

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/16/ps3-70-million-move-15-million/

You can read it here. The *1 next to the move sales is to say that it is sell-in, no mention of the navigation controller.

 

[Graphics Horse]

WiiU software bomba.

Last week we had to suffer that old 'it's only 2 days of sales, guys!' thing. That can still be the case with sleeper hits but things seem quite sleepy indeed.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Last week we had to suffer that old 'it's only 2 days of sales, guys!' thing. That can still be the case with sleeper hits but things seem quite sleepy indeed.

Last week I suspected low launch shipment and some degree of lack of interest was to blame, and I think that might still be the case to some degree (looking at the US and JPN launches which are only marginally off what Wii achieved), but this week I'm leaning more towards this being a result of Nintendo fluffing their lines here in the UK since 2010 and putting out a console that they haven't excited people enough about, and one they've put out at a price lots of people consider expensive.

It's early days, but I already like it a lot more than the Wii, given it does everything the Wii does, and has great new functions in the Gamepad, Miiverse etc... but if this continues, Wii software bomba is exactly what it is. Your move, Nintendo.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/16/ps3-70-million-move-15-million/

You can read it here. The *1 next to the move sales is to say that it is sell-in, no mention of the navigation controller.

Here's the key quote:

"SCE also announced that sales of the PlayStation®Move motion controller surpassed 15 million units*1 worldwide as of November 11"

15m wands sold to retailers. They say "motion controller" and the navcon doesn't have motion tech in it.

 

[Bruno MB]

I think people need to consider that the 2 years of nothing at the end of the Wii's life (well, Skyward Sword, XenoBlade, Last Story, and Just Dance) really turned off consumers who would have lined up day one for Nintendo's new console. As said above, when MS murdered the Xbox, the 360 was right there. Consumers may feel burned and are taking a wait and see approach. Or, worse yet, they've already upgraded to PS360 during the Wii drought, and Nintendo has lost them as customers for at least 4-5 years.

I completely agree with your point, in fact, that's what happened to me.

I was a happy Wii owner (despite its droughts) and I really felt burned by Nintendo when they abruptly abandoned their system a couple of years ago. With Nintendo 64 or GameCube they had a legit excuse since unfortunately no one seemed to be interested in any of these two systems, but with Wii? their best-selling console ever, that was so narrowed minded. No wonder so many people seem very weary of investing in Wii U after the bad experience with Wii. Furthermore, Wii U is not a cheap investment at all.

It's even more disappointing that after all this time, everything they could deliver in terms of first-party support for Wii U launch window were New Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land and Pikmin 3 which is now slated for "Q2 2013". That has to be a joke. By the way, a game that should have been released on Wii a long time ago.

 

[Miles X]

The PR specifically said that it was 15 million move motion controllers sold. If it was including sales of the move navigation controller they would just have said "move controllers".

I'm not talking about that PR release

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

NSMBU was probably the biggest of the non-casual games Nintendo could have launched and they look to have lost their touch with the casual market so this looks really bad.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Considering that Wonderbook is a brand new product and concept it will take time to build a picture as to how popular it is. However, from the three weeks it has been out, the performance has not been as bad as everyone thought and Sony have had godlike marketing in the UK for it. Every third advert on the main channels is for Wonderbook + PS3 "be a student at Hogwarts!".

If that's the sort of effort it takes to manage sales at this level, all it confirms is that PS3 definitely isn't well suited to be Wii's successor.

 

[Mpl90]

Guardian Top 20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/dec/10/20-video-games-chart

Assassin's Creed 3 platform %:

Xbox 360 (54)
PS3 (42)
PC (3)
Wii U (1)

Last week it did 53,923. Since it increased 10% this week, this means:

Assassin's Creed 3 Week 49: 59,315

Xbox 360 - 32,030
PS3 - 24,912
PC - 1,779
Wii U - 593

Since Assassin's Creed 3 is absent from Wii U Specific top 10, we know every game in the top 10 did better than 593. What a result!

 

[AzaK]

problem nintendo has is they are casual, and the price for casuals is too high, when you hear the name call of duty or other adult rated games do you ever think of Nintendo ? most people will think xbox pc or ps3. nintendeo needs to change this or they are gonna be screwed, its quite clear the WiiU doesnt have something catchy like the Wii (motion Controls n that )did .

It has something much better; the GamePad is very cool, but it's not as obvious and so expensive it takes budget away from the core tech. Overall it's going to be hard to sell. Flashier graphics are an easy sell, and so is motion control.

 

[Miles X]

Assassin's Creed 3 Week 49: 59,315

Xbox 360 - 32,030
PS3 - 24,912
PC - 1,779
Wii U - 593

Since Assassin's Creed 3 is absent from Wii U Specific top 10, we know every game in the top 10 did better than 593. What a result!

That's an abysmal attach rate, WiiU must have sold like 20k last week? that's a 2.5% attach rate.

 

[BKK]

Nintendo Land bundle was 60% WiiU HW last week, if that held this week then that would probably be under 20k WiiU HW this week.

01 (01) 360 Call Of Duty: Black Ops Ii (Activision Blizzard)
02 (04) WII Just Dance 4 (Ubisoft)
03 (02) PS3 Call Of Duty: Black Ops Ii (Activision Blizzard)
04 (03) 360 Far Cry 3 (Ubisoft)
05 (05) 360 Halo 4 (Microsoft) - 52,340
06 (06) 360 Fifa 13 (Electronic Arts)
07 (09) 360 Assassin's Creed Iii (Ubisoft) - 32,030
08 (12) PS3 Fifa 13 (Electronic Arts)
09 (08) PS3 Far Cry 3 (Ubisoft)
10 (07) 360 Hitman Absolution (Square Enix Europe) - >29,441
11 (10) PS3 Hitman Absolution (Square Enix Europe) - <26,099
12 (13) PS3 Assassin's Creed Iii (Ubisoft) - 24,912
13 (32) 360 Wwe '13 (Thq)
14 (24) PS3 Need For Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts) - <23,553
15 (15) PC Football Manager 2013 (Sega)
16 (19) 360 Need For Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts) - <20,936
17 (20) 3DS New Super Mario Bros. 2 (Nintendo)
18 (17) 360 Lego The Lord Of The Rings (Warner Bros. Interactive)
19 (18) WII Skylanders Giants (Activision Blizzard) - <18,578
20 (__) PS3 Wwe '13 (Thq) - <16,045
21 (29) 360 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (Bethesda Softworks)
22 (22) PS3 Book Of Spells (Sony Computer Ent.)
23 (21) 360 Forza Horizon (Microsoft)
24 (30) 360 Forza Motorsport 4 (Microsoft)
25 (26) NDS Moshi Monsters: Moshlings Theme Park (Mind Candy)
26 (28) 360 Skylanders Giants (Activision Blizzard) - <10,556
27 (11) WiiU Nintendo Land (Nintendo)
28 (__) WII Just Dance Disney Party (Ubisoft)
29 (33) 3DS Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo)
30 (31) PS3 Lego The Lord Of The Rings (Warner Bros. Interactive)
31 (37) 360 Medal Of Honor: Warfighter (Electronic Arts)
32 (35) 3DS Professor Layton And The Miracle Mask (Nintendo)
33 (23) WII Lego The Lord Of The Rings (Warner Bros. Interactive)
34 (__) PS3 Medal Of Honor: Warfighter (Electronic Arts)
35 (40) 3DS Super Mario 3d Land (Nintendo)
36 (14) WiiU New Super Mario Bros. U (Nintendo)
37 (25) 360 Dishonored (Bethesda Softworks)
38 (__) 360 Dance Central 2 (Microsoft)
39 (__) 360 F1 2012 (Codemasters)
40 (__) 3DS Paper Mario Sticker Star (Nintendo)

 

[Clay Davis]

Guardian Top 20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/dec/10/20-video-games-chart

Assassin's Creed 3 platform %:

Xbox 360 (54)
PS3 (42)
PC (3)
Wii U (1)

Last week it did 53,923. Since it increased 10% this week, this means:

Assassin's Creed 3 Week 49: 59,315

Xbox 360 - 32,030
PS3 - 24,912
PC - 1,779
Wii U - 593

Since Assassin's Creed 3 is absent from Wii U Specific top 10, we know every game in the top 10 did better than 593. What a result!

I thought the UK market was dying?

 

[Mpl90]

I thought the UK market was dying?

For the most part of this year, UK weekly sales were around 40-45% down compared to the same weeks in 2011. Even last week, with Wii U being released, saw a 25% decline compared to last year.

 

[Clay Davis]

For the most part of this year, UK weekly sales were around 40-45% down compared to the same weeks in 2011. Even last week, with Wii U being released, saw a 25% decline compared to last year.

isn't there a worldwide slump in sales though?

I was referencing the comments by some that the UK market is dying, the numbers, while not as good as last year don't really support such an outlandish claim.

 

[Mpl90]

isn't there a worldwide slump in sales though?

I was referencing the comments by some that the UK market is dying, the numbers, while not as good as last year don't really support such an outlandish claim.

Sales being basically half compared to last year, especially since last year already saw sales slowing compared to 2010, isn't just "as good as last year".

 

[QaaQer]

isn't there a worldwide slump in sales though?

I was referencing the comments by some that the UK market is dying, the numbers, while not as good as last year don't really support such an outlandish claim.

I agree. Especially if you compare 2012 with numbers from 2006. IMO, the contraction of the last couple of years is more of a market correction as casuals leave the market, rather than 'omg videogamz are dead'.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Wii U needs marketing full stop. Infomercials aren't working at all, Wii U needs imagination in advertisement. Something like the "U" in the US ads, that's a great imaginative thing to show in an ad.

It still isn't being stocked at all in my local supermarkets, no mention of it whatsoever. Big chains, good places for casuals. I know this is the case throughout much of the UK. Either Nintendo's plan was for a soft launch or they've abandoned the UK. No marketing.

Given how fully the current government has succeeded in its goal of making an abysmal (but slowwwwwly recovering) economy exponentially worse, I wouldn't bank on it being a priority for the others when they launch.