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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

Danj

Member
OK, so I just finished this game, but although the ending was mindblowing I didn't really understand it. I asked in the OT, but they told me to come here. I'm sorry if you guys already explained it a zillion times already but is there a concise and easily understandable summary of WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST WATCH?

Basically most of the stuff after the zeppelin/Songbird battle (which was SUPER annoying btw, I gameovered about 3 or 4 times before asking somebody else about a strategy).
 
Why does their have to be a "first" time? That's like trying to debate the origins of the Universe. The player is transported into the mind of Booker who is beginning his 123rd runthrough of Columbia. There was only a first time out of those 123 because he was given the opportunity by the Luteces who were screwed by Comstock to change what he began. All the other times beforehand, he probably commited suicide from guilt or just lived out his life or some other incident, the possibilites of which are, wait for it, infinite.

To meet yourself there has to be a first time.
 

Alucrid

Banned
It's a time traveling mutiverse story which is worse. Why would the first Comstock open a dimensional gate in the first place? Who found the scientists Lutece? Why did they open the dimensional portal the "first" time? To cross over the multiple dimensions someone had to do it "first".

Lutece opened the gate to find her brother Lutece so that they could be together as they had been communicating through morse code with an atom that was shared between their universe.
 

scy

Member
It's a time traveling mutiverse story which is worse. Why would the first Comstock open a dimensional gate in the first place? Who found the scientists Lutece? Why did they open the dimensional portal the "first" time? To cross over the multiple dimensions someone had to do it "first".

She was doing experiments with quantum particles and other such things where I believe she was conversing with the other Lutece. That desire to bring him over is what fueled the rest of things. I believe that's the course of events the game lays out, anyway.

As for Comstock, he purposefully seeks out a Booker DeWitt to get the child due to him being sterile. He needs a blood-related heir for the prophecy (alternate future) he saw. Since he can't have one, he'll just get one from another version of himself.
 
After the special thanks turned into even more credits, I skipped the rest. I youtubed the last bit but it doesn't feel real. So for me, the loop is closed. A final ending to the booker story. The only part that bothers me is that is the lack of others there and that the booker that was killed was an old version.
 

Riposte

Member
Probably the most amusing thing about the game's themes is that I believed that I had influenced that coin flip somehow. Mainly in retrospect. I don't know why.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
The tears revealing music from the future are just freaking brilliant. I seriously said WOW when I heard Fortunate Son through a tear. It's like, wow, it explains so MUCH and fits the narrative so well.
 
N

Noray

Unconfirmed Member
Probably the most amusing thing about the game's themes is that I believed that I had influenced that coin flip somehow. Mainly in retrospect. I don't know why.

"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist." It is funny, I saw a bunch of people saying they picked heads or tails and I was like "huh, there was no choice". Booker always picks tails, and it always lands heads, just as the raffle draw will always be 77.

Also, every time Liz tosses you a coin, Booker catches it same-side up. I just can't tell which side it is =\

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/594747728569714320/6FE5FB0630C2FC15A2FD19FC66E7E6FDAFE1149E/
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
It's not a time travel story. It's a multiverse story. Think sideways movement rather than linear.

There's also time travel in the story though. The Luteces can time travel, and lots of technology and culture from the future is imported through the tears. It's just not a big focus. :)

edit: What was the point of "draining" Elizabeth again?
 
The tears revealing music from the future are just freaking brilliant. I seriously said WOW when I heard Fortunate Son through a tear. It's like, wow, it explains so MUCH and fits the narrative so well.

All of the music choices are perfect. Using more than just Dies Irae from Mozart's Requiem? Old-timey covers? Hearing the real Cyndi Lauper song through the tear? The string version of Canon in D in the order of the raven building, then the creepy organ version in the brainwashing room in Comstock House? Aaaaaugh.
 

Espada

Member
After the special thanks turned into even more credits, I skipped the rest. I youtubed the last bit but it doesn't feel real. So for me, the loop is closed. A final ending to the booker story. The only part that bothers me is that is the lack of others there and that the booker that was killed was an old version.

That's the same thing I took from it. It was there to show that the loop had been broken, and it's just Booker and his daughter. All the timelines where Comstock takes the kid are no more.

I thought it was a nice ending to the game.
 

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
The tears revealing music from the future are just freaking brilliant. I seriously said WOW when I heard Fortunate Son through a tear. It's like, wow, it explains so MUCH and fits the narrative so well.

i had the same feeling with Everybody Wants To Rule The World. Just completely out of left field and completely fucking awesome.
 
I finished the game last night and I'm still thinking about that ending. Wow. Can't wait to replay it and see all the little hints.

Also, the Luteces are quite possibly two of my favourite video game characters ever. Utterly delightful, fun and mysterious - with a lot of depth and potentially excellent backstory.
 

Espada

Member
I finished the game last night and I'm still thinking about that ending. Wow. Can't wait to replay it and see all the little hints.

Also, the Luteces are quite possibly two of my favourite video game characters ever. Utterly delightful, fun and mysterious - with a lot of depth and potentially excellent backstory.

They are fantastic. I constantly looked forward to my next encounter with them. Just going over their dialogue in my head makes me smile. One of my favorite moments is when Rosalind is posing while Robert is supposed to be painting her... but he's just painting a picture of himself. That is both in-character and such a clever hint as to what's going on.
 
No, They are both sterile/infertile/etc.

Wasn't Comstock's "infertileness" due to the multidimensional machine? Is there a Comstock that can have children due to not touching the machine? How did Comstock meet the Luteces? Why is Comstock so much older than Booker? Was Booker plucked from the past (I assume he was)? Who is Anna's mother? Was the Booker that died destined to become the "first" Comstock?
 

LordCanti

Member
It's a time traveling mutiverse story which is worse. Why would the first Comstock open a dimensional gate in the first place? Who found the scientists Lutece? Why did they open the dimensional portal the "first" time? To cross over the multiple dimensions someone had to do it "first".

He needed knowledge of the future in order to be seen as a prophet and build a following. I guess the Lutece's needed money to work on their tech, but I'm not sure if that's codified in the game.

What I'm kind of trying to figure out is if Comstock realized he was Booker Dewitt. He tells Elizabeth to ask Booker what happened to her finger, but in such a way that really vilifies Booker for selling her and not himself for selling her. He also obviously tortured Elizabeth once he got her, and responds to "You are NOT my father" with "Well, I will be" or something along those lines, despite being her father.

I'm not sure I want a super-happy ending for Booker, given his backstory.

Even gambling alcoholic war criminals that sell their daughters into torture deserve a second...

Wait...no...
 
Wasn't Comstock's "infertileness" due to the multidimensional machine? Is there a Comstock that can have children due to not touching the machine? How did Comstock meet the Luteces? Why is Comstock so much older than Booker? Was Booker plucked from the past (I assume he was)? Who is Anna's mother? Was the Booker that died destined to become the "first" Comstock?

Every permutation of Comstock is infertile because he always has the siphon. He met the Luteces before building Columbia. The machine ages him rapidly. Anna's mother doesn't really factor into the story.
 

SiskoKid

Member
It's a time traveling mutiverse story which is worse. Why would the first Comstock open a dimensional gate in the first place? Who found the scientists Lutece? Why did they open the dimensional portal the "first" time? To cross over the multiple dimensions someone had to do it "first".

Comstock did all of that because of Lutece's expertise. He met Lutece who was a scientist. She created all the technology that allowed for the floating city and tears to exist.

That said, because of the radiation, Comstock got cancer and became sterile, but he wanted a child as an heir to keep his vision a reality and to keep his religious society subdued. Lutece opened a hole to another existence where Booker never got baptised and had a baby. In that process, Lutece met her male doppelgänger and brought all 3 through: Comstock + baby + male Lutece.

Now because of Lutece's technology, they were able to even rip tears through time and space to steal other technologies from other points in time and also even entertainment. Which is why you'll see modern songs being sung on the record players but in old-timey styles. There's a red tear in the game explaining this too.

Comstock also wanted to take over America. So he brainwashed and manipulated a populace and used future technology to create an army to destroy the people below and take over. In that process, he killed Lutece because he didn't have a need for her anymore.

But a female and male Lutece that are outside of the timeline keep replaying the same timeline over and over trying different things to see if they can get a different outcome. They may seem insane, but they do feel responsible for the horrible events that take place. In the ending, they describe Booker as their 'hairshirt' which means their item of atonement.

It's unclear how Elizabeth got her powers, but I imagine Lutece helped her become that way through experimentation or because her body got caught within a wormhole, her conscious was fragmented and she had a bizarre understanding of the universe. Lutece did however create the technology to keep her powers subdued and even drain them over time to help Comstock. That's what the tower is for, it drains her powers. Once the tower is destroyed, all the understanding of the universe comes rushing back to her.

As for Comstock dying, in the ending, Elizabeth states she sees all doors (all possibility spaces) and in only one of them does she see a chance to kill Comstock. She then goes on to state that, "It will only be over when he never even lived in the first place."

So with her ultimate understanding, she takes Booker to a place where they root out all possibilities of Comstock, all possibilities of Elizabeth and all possibilities of the Luteces destroying the world through enabling Comstock. That's not to say Lutece doesn't ever find her male counterpart again in the remaining timelines, but that's neither here nor there.
 
What I'm kind of trying to figure out is if Comstock realized he was Booker Dewitt. He tells Elizabeth to ask Booker what happened to her finger, but in such a way that really vilifies Booker for selling her and not himself for selling her. He also obviously tortured Elizabeth once he got her, and responds to "You are NOT my father" with "Well, I will be" or something along those lines, despite being her father.

Comstock knew he was Booker because he specifically stole Anna in the first place because she was blood relation and he needed a blood heir to fulfill the alternate universe he saw.
 
N

Noray

Unconfirmed Member
Wasn't Comstock's "infertileness" due to the multidimensional machine? Is there a Comstock that can have children due to not touching the machine? How did Comstock meet the Luteces? Why is Comstock so much older than Booker? Was Booker plucked from the past (I assume he was)? Who is Anna's mother? Was the Booker that died destined to become the "first" Comstock?

Yes
Maybe but many more that stole Anna,
Unknown and not germane to the story,
Due to messing with the machine,
He was plucked from his version of 1912,
Presumably the same woman who became lady comstock in the parallel universe since she resembles Anna/Liz,
no, he died at the origin point of Comstock, the first baptism. Think of it as a tree - at that baptism two branches sprouted off, one where Booker remained Booker because he refused, one where he gets baptised and becomes Comstock.
 

pakkit

Banned
edit: What was the point of "draining" Elizabeth again?

My interpretation was the drains are what powered Columbia's alternate form of energy. That's why, once you remove Elizabeth from the siphon, you witness a whole lot of mechanical failures, and you have to get the Shock Jockey Vigor for a quick fix.
 
He needed knowledge of the future in order to be seen as a prophet and build a following. I guess the Lutece's needed money to work on their tech, but I'm not sure if that's codified in the game.

What I'm kind of trying to figure out is if Comstock realized he was Booker Dewitt. He tells Elizabeth to ask Booker what happened to her finger, but in such a way that really vilifies Booker for selling her and not himself for selling her. He also obviously tortured Elizabeth once he got her, and responds to "You are NOT my father" with "Well, I will be" or something along those lines, despite being her father.



Even gambling alcoholic war criminals that sell their daughters into torture deserve a second...

Wait...no...

Oi, PTSD can fuck with you in so many ways. I sympathize with him on that front and at least in one universe, he came to his senses and tried to reverse it.
 

MGrant

Member
OK, so I just finished this game, but although the ending was mindblowing I didn't really understand it. I asked in the OT, but they told me to come here. I'm sorry if you guys already explained it a zillion times already but is there a concise and easily understandable summary of WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST WATCH?

Basically most of the stuff after the zeppelin/Songbird battle (which was SUPER annoying btw, I gameovered about 3 or 4 times before asking somebody else about a strategy).

So, remember the Baptism at the end? That's a "constant" event that happens in multiple timelines, with multiple outcomes. Booker is there because he is haunted by the events at Wounded Knee and the Boxer Revolt (the two conflicts depicted at the Hall of Heroes that he fought in with Slate).

In one reality, Booker is Baptised and changes his name to Zachary Comstock, meets the Luteces, builds Columbia, basically everything you see happening in first few hours of the game. In another reality, he leaves without being Baptised, and his life goes to shit. Wife dies in childbirth, he becomes an alcoholic, racks up a massive gambling debt.

Meanwhile, in Comstock's timeline, he discovers that he and his wife are unable to conceive a child (it is revealed that his use of tears has made him infertile). He is also terminally ill and rapidly aging, so he needs an heir to complete his plans. So he gets Mr. Lutece to cross over into Player Booker's timeline and offer to buy Booker's baby, Anna. Booker agrees (though later changes his mind), Comstock gets a genetic offspring (technically), who he raises as Elizabeth.

But Booker wants his daughter back, and the Luteces have become stuck in time due to their experiments and because the multiverse has become fractured by stealing Anna and leaving her finger behind in the other dimension. So the Luteces hire Booker to "get the girl," because he already has an urge to get Anna back, though the crossover into Comstock's universe confuses Booker's memories, leading him to believe that his mission all along has been to capture some unknown girl and give her up to clear his gambling debt.

Meanwhile the Luteces and Old Elizabeth are fucking around with the timeline to ensure that Booker succeeds in freeing Elizabeth's powers, which seem to be substantially more powerful than even the Lutece's abilities. Elizabeth then takes Booker back to the Baptism and kills him in that timeline to ensure that all permutations of Comstock can never exist.
 
He needed knowledge of the future in order to be seen as a prophet and build a following. I guess the Lutece's needed money to work on their tech, but I'm not sure if that's codified in the game.

What I'm kind of trying to figure out is if Comstock realized he was Booker Dewitt. He tells Elizabeth to ask Booker what happened to her finger, but in such a way that really vilifies Booker for selling her and not himself for selling her. He also obviously tortured Elizabeth once he got her, and responds to "You are NOT my father" with "Well, I will be" or something along those lines, despite being her father.

He knows. It's key to the story - he steals Anna because she is a blood relative.
 

DatDude

Banned
OK, so I just finished this game, but although the ending was mindblowing I didn't really understand it. I asked in the OT, but they told me to come here. I'm sorry if you guys already explained it a zillion times already but is there a concise and easily understandable summary of WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST WATCH?

Basically most of the stuff after the zeppelin/Songbird battle (which was SUPER annoying btw, I gameovered about 3 or 4 times before asking somebody else about a strategy).

What questions do you have?
 

K' Dash

Member
I just finished the game.

The Memento + Butterfly Effect story was AWESOME, as was the presentation and the combat man, the COMBAT I was just there running from one side to another making Vigor combos with my Shotgun, I must say that this is the most satisfying Shotgun in a LONG time, fuck, fuck...............
 
Every permutation of Comstock is infertile because he always has the siphon. He met the Luteces before building Columbia. The machine ages him rapidly. Anna's mother doesn't really factor into the story.

How did they kill all the Comstocks and Elizabeths by killing that one Booker?
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
image.php


humanity or tear?
 

LordCanti

Member
Comstock knew he was Booker because he specifically stole Anna in the first place because she was blood relation and he needed a blood heir to fulfill the alternate universe he saw.

What happened to Anna in the original timeline where he becomes Comstock? He couldn't have sold her to Comstock since there wasn't a Comstock yet. Did he originally sell her to someone else to pay off his debts?

Edit: Oh, he never gets someone pregnant in that timeline. Got it.

image.php


humanity or tear?

Crush it in your hand and see if you regain some health.
 

Espada

Member
How did they kill all the Comstocks and Elizabeths by killing that one Booker?

Elizabeth says she can see all the doors, and what lies behind them. Behind one of them she sees where Comstock comes from. Booker says to go to the one where they can smother him in the crib.

Since Booker = Comstock, killing him there prevents all Comstock timelines. That's the origin point of all Zachary Hale Comstock timelines.
 
So he deserves to suffer? The dude is a drunk that is clearly messed up about what he did. His life isn't going to be easy from there on out, so it's not a "super-happy" ending.

What? No, I'm not moralizing, I was talking about my interpretation of the ending. I think the post-credits tease is a flashback still, because giving a dude who (if it's real at that point) burned down a building full of people to prove he hated indians a ~happy~ ending runs counter to the point of the game.

To truly be washed of his sins, Booker had to be baptized to death, yo. He had to cease existing.
 
N

Noray

Unconfirmed Member
What happened to Anna in the original timeline where he becomes Comstock? He couldn't have sold her to Comstock since there wasn't a Comstock yet. Did he originally sell her to someone else to pay off his debts?

Anna wasn't conceived until after the baptism, so there is no Anna in Comstock's universe. 1891-baptism. 1893- Anna is born and stolen from Booker by Comstock.
 

LiK

Member
What happened to Anna in the original timeline where he becomes Comstock? He couldn't have sold her to Comstock since there wasn't a Comstock yet. Did he originally sell her to someone else to pay off his debts?
.

I assume that is the case.
 

scy

Member
How did they kill all the Comstocks and Elizabeths by killing that one Booker?

It's more symbolic than anything, as far as I can tell. We're left with the assumption that killing this Comstock the moment of his birth (before any branching is done and all that) will permanently remove all possibilities of a Comstock. Without a Comstock, there can be no Elizabeth.

Essentially, the baptism has two routes: Booker DeWitt rejects it and lives his life or he accepts it, becomes Comstock, and dies immediately. Without Comstock existing, Booker DeWitt never sells Anna to him. Without that, Anna never grows up as Elizabeth in Columbia with Comstock and the Luteces. Hell, without Comstock, there is no Columbia.

All we're left with is Booker and Anna.
 

MGrant

Member
What happened to Anna in the original timeline where he becomes Comstock? He couldn't have sold her to Comstock since there wasn't a Comstock yet. Did he originally sell her to someone else to pay off his debts?

Anna is born to only Booker, after the events at the Baptism. Comstock is Baptised and leads a completely separate life sans Anna.
 
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