Consider this...If they had the technology of the 80s and beyong in 1910 imagine what they had in 1980
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
Consider this...If they had the technology of the 80s and beyong in 1910 imagine what they had in 1980
SammiiDoogles
Member
I mean more in terms of assets and whatnot. That entire area was built and furnished, there was finished voice acting and animations. It's a shame none of it made it into the game because the stuff looks amazing.
Tokubetsu
Member
Because she was non-compliant with he father's message/mission. As she says to you in 1980s, it took time for her to totally lose hope that you were coming for her/hope in general. Also, she needed to build an army.
It happens all the time in any media's development. Books, games, movies, etc. There will always be things that got cut.
For instance, a WHOLE level got cut a few months before the launch of Infinite due to Levine thinking it served no purpose to the narrative and stating how he had 'restitch the narrative"
Of course he could just add things galore, but I'm sure he had a reason for everything he cut. I can't imagine it was just "LOL DAT LOOKS DUM. LET GIT RID OF IT!!"
Everything's how Levine wanted to be...what was cut was cut for a reason or reused in a different way in the narrative (like the tear where Liz opens to france and the jedi reference is used)
sssstententen
Member
Yeah pretty sure the fact the narrative is so goddamn tight proves Levine knows what he's doing, I'm sure that anything he cut was for the better in the long run.
Would it have been nice to play those stages? Sure. But would the game be the same? Who knows.
I'd still love to be a Irrational dev and have access to early builds of this game, my god.
Would it have been nice to play those stages? Sure. But would the game be the same? Who knows.
I'd still love to be a Irrational dev and have access to early builds of this game, my god.
Raitosaito
Member
Everybody wanting the E3 stuff needs to reexamine the narrative and think about most of that stuff doesn't fit.
This may be the consequence of a very linear narrative that needs to serve a specific purpose, but it wouldn't work with how the game in the end came to be.
This may be the consequence of a very linear narrative that needs to serve a specific purpose, but it wouldn't work with how the game in the end came to be.
SammiiDoogles
Member
Yeah I get you, just seems like a lot of great stuff to cut. The streets swathed in Vox banners looks amazing and would have slotted in perfectly into the game. The little monocle exchange as well as the 'jump' conversations are both in the game and it's clear that this was what that evacuation was supposed to be like, but in the game it's much, much smaller scale.
The streets themselves look great too - wider with taller buildings. Some interesting looking stores too - that dentist place looks brilliant.
It just seems like a tonne of stuff to not see the light of day.
Oh yeah no doubt, the narrative is airtight. I enjoyed the game immensely don't get my wrong - it's shot up to one of my all time favourites. I know the demo in particular wouldn't fit into the game as it is at all, just saying it looks like a tonne of great work that's not playable. (voice acting, animation, assets, art work). Maybe that's the art student in me coming out, seems like a lot of great artwork not being used haha.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
No, it's my fault. There's some here who believe that only the Bookers who become Comstock are killed, which although is completely open to a small degree of interpretation, I totally disagree with
.I wouldn't have wanted to experience what we saw in the E3 2011 demo precisely as it played out.
There was far too much jammed together without any sense of long-term pacing. It plays wonderfully as a demonstration to sell the concept. But as a full-length game? No.
What we ultimately got incorporated quite a bit of what we saw in the demo, albeit modified. The sequence with Songbird plays out almost identically, sans inclement weather in the background.
Admittedly, the projection of Daisy Fitzroy's face would have been neat to see, but I'm sure it was cut for a reason.
There was far too much jammed together without any sense of long-term pacing. It plays wonderfully as a demonstration to sell the concept. But as a full-length game? No.
What we ultimately got incorporated quite a bit of what we saw in the demo, albeit modified. The sequence with Songbird plays out almost identically, sans inclement weather in the background.
Admittedly, the projection of Daisy Fitzroy's face would have been neat to see, but I'm sure it was cut for a reason.
One big ass level doesn't have to do anything with the core narrative. Fleshing out side stuff is something where Infinite fails. I would have loved to find out more about the city itself. Don't get me wrong, woobley-wibly-timey time travel stuff is great, but I think they missed an opportunity to create a more "believable" and "human" city.
If that were true, then the city should have just vanished or crushed like Inception, not just burning.
Lasers or something.
Man, I just finished this about an hour ago and have been reading through this thread. I thought the ending was fantastic, but I sorta saw it coming and I suspect anybody else who's played the
saw it coming as well.
I'm still trying to process through everything but as I understand it Elizabeth killed Booker and any other Booker that have the possibility of being baptized, thus preventing his potential change into Comstock?
And what exactly is Elizabeth?
Zero's Last Escape Series (999/VLR)
I'm still trying to process through everything but as I understand it Elizabeth killed Booker and any other Booker that have the possibility of being baptized, thus preventing his potential change into Comstock?
And what exactly is Elizabeth?
I would be a good amount of a money for a next gen port of a Directors Cut of Infinite.
Seeing the pc screen shots just don't compare to how my game looks and it truly feels that that's the way it should be played, in all it's beautiful glory.
Also, maybe add some new things?
1. Include all the dlc, and extra pre order exclusive weapons/gears
2. Add a New Game Plus option (should've been there from the get go IMO)
3. Add a developer commentary playthorugh option where you can hear ken levine talk about various parts of the game while you are playing through them
4. Behind the scenes where we look at Infinite development process, what was cut, the idea's behind Infinite and so on and so forth.
5. Maybe having a deleted scenes option where you get to experience some cut stuff. (So it's not emdedd into the actual game, but you can experience it standalone)..or make it what they did with the new bioshock collection and make a columbia museum where you can see all the cut content and what not.
Seeing the pc screen shots just don't compare to how my game looks and it truly feels that that's the way it should be played, in all it's beautiful glory.
Also, maybe add some new things?
1. Include all the dlc, and extra pre order exclusive weapons/gears
2. Add a New Game Plus option (should've been there from the get go IMO)
3. Add a developer commentary playthorugh option where you can hear ken levine talk about various parts of the game while you are playing through them
4. Behind the scenes where we look at Infinite development process, what was cut, the idea's behind Infinite and so on and so forth.
5. Maybe having a deleted scenes option where you get to experience some cut stuff. (So it's not emdedd into the actual game, but you can experience it standalone)..or make it what they did with the new bioshock collection and make a columbia museum where you can see all the cut content and what not.
sssstententen
Member
I agree, my one big gripe with the game.
With the time it took for this game to be made, I would have loved to see a huge world to become even more immersed in. Imagine having some spare time to just explore some of the different areas in Columbia, fully explorable city streets with different shops, NPC's to interact with, VOX recording's everywhere fleshing it out even more.
Its a shame that this game is one of my favorites of this year just because there's barely any game to be played of it, I want more. Guess I'll wait for the DLC.
Meh, it felt just as believable and human as Rapture. IMO of course....
A voxophone has Fink mentioning that he has been using the tears to watch a very talented biologist and in another references watching a process being done combining man and machine that's irreversible and that perhaps Comstock will have a use for it someday.
So its clear Fink has been watching Rapture.
I'm sure that would be pushing the consoles to there utter limits.
Infinite on a next gen console though..imagine what they could have created
FunkyMunkey
Banned
She killed any Booker that goes to the baptism, eliminating every remote chance of a Booker turning into Comstock.
Elizabeth is an ordinary girl, but with a part of her body in a different dimension(her finger), she becomes semi-omniscient.
Elizabeth is Anna DeWitt.
She's Booker's daughter, taken from her native universe and transplanted into Comstock's world. Part of her pinky was lost due to a struggle that ensued between Comstock and Booker, thus putting her body between two dimensions.
This would be why she's able to freely open tears and travel between worlds. The Luteces can do something similar because their entire bodies were trapped between universes.
By the end, she's likened to a god, omniscient and omnipresent. This is because the device indundating her abilities was destroyed by Songbird.
sssstententen
Member
Any Booker involved with the main game of Bioshock Infinite died. Only ones left are Booker's who never even considered baptism, or who went on to lead a successful life after wounded knee, or whose wife never died in childbirth, etc.
I liked it as a Diorama and I don't know if I would have traded it for something more believable. I love the synchronized workers in Finkton, for example. Someone said that the NPCs looked like wax figures and I guess that's not wrong, but I like it.
Given the steampunk theme, there's charm in everything kind of looking like a cog serving a function.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Yeah. Ken Levine also infamously asked for a redesign of ShantyTown deep in the development of Bioshock Infinite. It was what lead Nate Wells to quit Irrational Games.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Also Ryans Song Bird?
Perhaps Levine had some sort of concept right from the get go with a mechanical bird in Rapture but had to cut it?
Or maybe he sort of had a blue sky idea that he just wanted to potentially put in for future references?
But interesting regardless...the screech in fort frolic...poster in fort frolic refering to "Song Bird"
Very, very intersting.
"Ryan's Songbird" is the name of a song in the game. Anna Culpepper is an anti-Ryan dissident, if I remember right.
The main game doesn't really explain how Songbird was made.
The Xtortionist
Member
I would pay so much money for these
Did anyone expect the Songbird to be the final boss?
I was a bit let down from that as the events before seem to suggest the next problem was the bird after Comstock was out of the picture. Maybe it was a canned idea? Somehow the timelines melded, and tensions relaxed from the Vox Pop who would help you out on taking out the bird like it was the Incredible Hulk.
In retrospect, probably it was for the better since the shooting was a chore in this game.
I was a bit let down from that as the events before seem to suggest the next problem was the bird after Comstock was out of the picture. Maybe it was a canned idea? Somehow the timelines melded, and tensions relaxed from the Vox Pop who would help you out on taking out the bird like it was the Incredible Hulk.
In retrospect, probably it was for the better since the shooting was a chore in this game.
I would love to see the original version because the current wasn't great. It was just a corridor really.
Man, Levine seems like a nightmare to work under. I mean, the current version of Shantytown is pretty bad. There is barely anything and beyond the bar, there is almost no exploration. I wonder what could have been so bad that they had to scrap everything.
Tokubetsu
Member
I think it's sort of interesting to note that Lady Comstock lived if only because Comstock was infertile but she still died for the want of her own child. Think that's definitely a major theme throughout the Bioshock games. The things we love and create end up killing us.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't haha.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't haha.
I think the only chore fights were the lady ghot fights, boring open areas with n cover... anything involving skylines or hooks though was fantastic, I dont think Ive ever moved so much in a single player shooter, much better than crouching behind cover and slowly moving around a map
EDIT: Crap DP
It wasnt bad it just didnt fit the world...apparently it was a lot of ramshackle shacks, but that didnt make as much sense as beautiful, but derelict buildings seen elsewhere in the game.... now the real root of the problem is how the old shanty town got so far in development before it got cut...some serious mismanagement there
XANDER CAGE
Member
If there's any game that needs, needs needs needs a good post-mortem documentary/commentary/whatever ala Half Life 2, it's this game. For better and worse, there's so much I need to know about that 4 year development.
Bioshock Infinte: Raising the Bar 2 ... (I would buy this in a second)
The booker is actually thing was obvious by the end, but the final sequence was anything but
Source?
The last moments in the Momument Island chapter is probably my favorite setpiece done in all of videogames, the music sets up the emotion and direness perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAi99OvzfFE&t=15m36s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAi99OvzfFE&t=15m36s
crap it was one of the hundreds of interview levine did just start googling shanty town levine
http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/1/10/3853198/ken-levine-bioshock-infinite-vgas
Read the part about "Breaking off the Arm."
The fact this was mentioned way before Infinite's release tells me that Levine knew this section sucked in the final build.
Eh, by the halfway point or so the game had already become pretty explicit about the fact that it was doing a "there are many worlds" story.
That doesn't undercut how cool the way they chose to show it you in the end was, though.
xxjuicesxx
Member
I was hoping it would be less time travel-y twist and a more looping twist, where he finds himself repeating a circle of events, hence the infinite. Possibly through tears and littler things like don't pick 77 next time it would be don't pick 78.
I guess there's a nice meta point about how all the games have a world, a lighthouse, a man and so on...a nice hint that something new needs to be done. I like the philosophical stuff that tends to get added to these games.
How come Lady Comstock the ghost was attacking Booker? That was his wife? Didnt she die giving birth to Anna.Elizabeth? That means she never could be known as Lady Comstock because Booker only became Comstock because she died and had to gamble.drink.rack up debt.
Is there any difference in the game choosing the bird or the cage for her neck piece?
Confusing story with all that time travel. !
I guess there's a nice meta point about how all the games have a world, a lighthouse, a man and so on...a nice hint that something new needs to be done. I like the philosophical stuff that tends to get added to these games.
How come Lady Comstock the ghost was attacking Booker? That was his wife? Didnt she die giving birth to Anna.Elizabeth? That means she never could be known as Lady Comstock because Booker only became Comstock because she died and had to gamble.drink.rack up debt.
Is there any difference in the game choosing the bird or the cage for her neck piece?
Confusing story with all that time travel. !
It is sort of a weak point of the final game, true, but more because of the story and pacing than the art style. The whole gun-fetch quest was undoubtedly the weakest park of the game. I was surprised that there wasn't more interaction in the game with the Finkton workers and Shantytown inhabitants. It was a perfect opportunity to flesh out Daisy Fitzroy more, as almost everything you heard about her up until that point was from the other side.
Ok, so now having twelve hours or so to digest the ending, here's what I think happened with the post credit sequence...
Troy Baker and Lizzy McLizbeth played guitar and sang.
... Also...
I think Comstock was "killed in his crib," but not Booker. I think Booker was taken to the baptism twice for a very specific reason pertaining to the one binary choice which determines Comstock's existence. It was the place where Comstock was born, but only in one branch out of two. So the first visit was the Booker path, in which he lived, and the second was the Comstock branch, where he was killed. Thus, Booker realities continue, but not Comstock.
I don't need to spoiler tag anything in here, right?
Troy Baker and Lizzy McLizbeth played guitar and sang.
... Also...
I think Comstock was "killed in his crib," but not Booker. I think Booker was taken to the baptism twice for a very specific reason pertaining to the one binary choice which determines Comstock's existence. It was the place where Comstock was born, but only in one branch out of two. So the first visit was the Booker path, in which he lived, and the second was the Comstock branch, where he was killed. Thus, Booker realities continue, but not Comstock.
I don't need to spoiler tag anything in here, right?
God dammit dude, you just spoiled the entire fucking game for me.
Just kidding, you can say anything about the story without spoiler tags.
Well he is repeating these same events. It's just that in previous times he had failed and died (booker). The chalk board with the heads and tails marking is an indication of how many bookers there were that attempted the coin flip (123 I believe it was?).
Also, every time you die, a new booker starts the journey over again up until that point.
It's also about choices and how they are just simply illusions in game design. That's why the opportunites you had to choose, they didn't differ much in the outcome. They were intentionally done that way.
No. Again though, it wasn't meant to be. Just another example of choice is irrelevant and nothing but an illusion in game design.
Not really. Read some of the flow charts, and ask any questions you have and you should have a pretty clear understanding of what's going on.
Also, a second play through helps mighty. The amount of things that start clicking like a missing puzzle piece is mind blowing in it's own right.
I remembered a nosebleed happening before, I just forgot WHEN. I actually thought it was when the statue changed, but I was wrong.
A thought of mine: maybe it's best to view Columbia itself similarly to a Silent Hill game. As exploration of the concepts of overzealous patriotism and religious views the game's kind of a failure, but as an examination of Booker? I think it actually works well, the whole thing stands as an example of how wrecked with guilt he is about his past: when baptized he doesn't try to drown it away, he tried to GLORIFY and JUSTIFY his prior misdeeds.
Yeah I agree.
I think the use of racism and overzealous patriotism wasn't meant to be a theme of the city..but rather Booker himself.
The events occurring in Columbia are really just a mirror of what's occuring to Booker. The racism, the overzelous patriotism (his murderings in Wounded Knee, and how he hates native americans), it really does tie things together really nicely if you look at it from that perspective.