Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
I'm sure it takes place, I'm also sure 90% of accusations are baseless and just people on GAF who like a good old witchhunt.
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Polygon: Xbox One policy "gross, despicable, greedy, pathetic, cowardly"
- Thread starter mcfrank
- Start date
I'm sure it takes place, I'm also sure 90% of accusations are baseless and just people on GAF who like a good old witchhunt.
I guess no matter what a website says, someone will think they're on some company's payroll.
NoirVisage
Banned
You have to look at the bigger picture, sure both deliver games digitally and verify them. But that is about where the comparison stops, for instance: you can play offline on steam, you actually pay a fair price for your games. Unlike Xbox where a year after release you still pay more than on the release date in a physical store.
It's more that people don't really give a shit if someone is paid to shill or just doing it of blind loyalty to a corporation for free. They are effectively the same. Though one is just kind of sadly pathetic.
Oh, you're not? I'm sorry then, guess I was wrong, you're just a fanboy who loves his corporation so much. They should pay you for your hard work.
The evidence is the post history.
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
Yeah, I'm an insider. I designed the Xbox One system. Now with my spare time I go on NeoGAF and try to change public perception by posting positively about the system. It's so obvious, right?
You're ignoring the point. Xbox is a closed platform. That doesn't change the fact it can be designed as a digital distribution platform. If you use iOS devices you can't access other people's stores or use your purchases on non-Apple devices. That doesn't mean the App Store suddenly isn't a DD platform.
It has more in common with Steam than it doesn't.
A cursory glance at Microsoft's balance sheet is enough. It's impossible to spend 10 billion dollars on pr & marketing every fucking year without hiring people to sing your song in public.
Graphics Horse
Member
Well there was an old rumour that it wouldn't have a disc drive, it makes a heck of a lot more sense than what they revealed.
The very fact that Steam is just an option for PC gaming, moderated by the very market and competition, and the fact that the Xbox is a closed system that imposes all these new rules, regulations and limitations upon everyone, should have ended any discussion on this issue long ago.
It doesn't even matter how wrong it is (comparing them), as Steam doesn't impose check ins every 24h to approve behavior and legality, doesn't require a camera and microphone in your home, etc, etc, because it's not comparable.
Are you actually doubting astroturfing and planting shills as a business practice? And you also mentioned the 'reddit guy' thread, so you have looked over the threads on the issue, being filled with proof, articles, links, etc.
What are you saying here? The "lol, this guy actually says that a company hired people to post on forums, ancient-aliens and flat-earth next!!11!" argument has been rendered meaningless a few years ago.
Manmademan
Member
Let me spell this out for you.
The Xbox one is a closed hardware system. The PC is an open platform.
Steam is one of many different ways I can get software on a PC. If I choose not to buy into Steam, or I don't like Valve, I am still free to play retro games, indie games, games from other platforms (Origin) on the hardware, or even make my own. Steam does not dictate what I can or cannot do with the hardware I bought.
From a developer standpoint, if a developer does not like steam they are free to release games through another channel, and PC gamers can still play it. They do not have to "buy another PC!" Steam has no say here and cannot stop that.
On the other hand, the Xbox one is completely locked down. I have to play by Microsoft's rules if I want to do ANYTHING with the system. Say I move and lose internet access?
I lose access to every single game I have.
I cannot play indie titles.
I cannot play retro games.
My console is effectively a brick. "Buy a PS4" is not a good enough answer here.
What if a developer (say, Capcom) decides that microsoft's policies are too restrictive, and they don't want to play ball? What if Indie developers can't make it through microsoft's approval process? The answer to both is that every Xbox ONE owner is out of luck and will not be playing games by that studio.
There is no comparison with the Xbox ONE and Steam.
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
Because I don't consider the 24 hour check in to be anything worthy of concern. If you do, that's fine. We're not going to reach any kind of agreement on it because I can't possibly think of a less important issue.
[poisonelf said:
Like I said, I'm sure it happens, but it doesn't happen to the extent where accusing everybody who says anything positive about Xbox is a shill. Which is what is happening here repeatedly.
You'd think they'd at least mix it up, haha. I don't know if they are getting paid, but gee, at least I hope they are =S
Link?
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
So when the Steambox comes out, will you be up in arms? Cos it's just going to be a little PC that does nothing but run a Linux version of Steam.
I mean maybe you'll be able to flash the device to run Windows or something. Would that be OK?
3rdamention
Member
Steam will not stop you from playing games If you lose your Internet Connection.
Steam has tons of sales cause there are quite a few other sites offering digital PC Content, thus adding competition. (Steam, Amazon, GreenManGaming, Origin, etc.)
Steam doesn't hide features behind a payway. You don't have to pay a fee to play your games online.
PC Games on Steam allow for Bundles, Mods, Alpha & Beta Testing, etc.
No, they are not "significantly better for consumers!"
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
It's a strange time when defending Xbone is considered a give away of being a shill. Not that we can't have a civil discourse about the console but the defenders have bunkered down with the same rhetoric of shills. They desperatly want the anti-consumer movement to be easily categorised as "rabid Sony-fans" missing the entire point of the Xbone-critisism by a good mile.
I think Yatzhee said it best, and I'm paraphrasing here, that these companies are not in need of any internet white-knightery. If the console is as good as the fans think it'll be proven. Even the "PS3 has no games"-joke is used ironicly now.
The Steambox is never coming out. Atleast not in this generation and when it does we will judge it on its own merits. And I think it'll be very easy to get Windows up and running on it, to be frank.
I don't think Dale's statements are actually that controversial; Stumpokapow said basically the same thing. They're the policies of a digital distribution platform. When every disc gives the consumer a digital copy, every game sold is part of that digital system.
Now, there's plenty of reasons why that itself might not be a good thing (I don't think I'm getting much in exchange for what I'm losing, and when there's no competition on the system, it lends itself to monopolistic pricing in a way that isn't true on an open platform), but it's an obvious parallel. Even if it's a shitty digital distribution platform, it's still a digital distribution platform.
Some of the differences between Steam and Xbox One.
- Steam isn't a closed platform. You don't need a particular box to use it.
- Steam works on any PC or laptop, long after a generation of new hardware, even two, or three.
- Steam allows you to download the game an unlimited number of times on any number of computers.
- Steam has far superior prices and sales.
- The basic RRP for a PC game is less than that of a console game, with Steam, usually cheaper.
- Steam is a digital download service, it does not use physical discs.
- Steam allows for complete offline play. No check ins at all once a game is downloaded.
3rdamention
Member
Angelus Errare
Banned
I see!
lmao
Manmademan
Member
Nice try ignoring the points I made to you. But since you asked:
I don't care about the steambox, because 1.) it doesn't exist and 2.) I choose not to play games through steam. But we weren't talking about how restrictive or not a platform that does not exist yet is, we were talking about the false equivalence between the Xbox ONE and Steam, which is such a stupid talking point it's absolutely mind boggling why anyone would try to argue it that had not been paid to do so.
So you are supporting MS's new business practices because you assume that a new PC platform which will come out some time in the future, might have some similar practices (which it really will not, since it won't require checking in to be approved every now and then, and no camera in your home), and which will still be just an option among many others, and not required, for PC gaming?
And by the way, being a PC gamer far more than a console gamer, I also dislike steam and the whole notion of not owning what you buy, so even if for some reason you actually convince someone that the xbox is somehow similar to steam, it doesn't automatically mean something.
- Steam isn't DRM and it doesn't force anyone to use DRM. (many games are DRM free)
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
1) Sure. But we're talking about consoles, in which closed platforms are the norm
2) See 1
3) You can redownload your Xbox One games on any Xbox One as many times as you like. The expectation with consoles is not anything any different.
4) TBC. WIth the retail and digital presence of Xbox One you have no idea what prices will be like. Steam will probably win because PC is a less healthy market.
5) See 4
6) Steamwork games are sold with retail discs in stores, which act as installation discs with a one time DVD code
7) Yeah. Give Steam a "tick" for that I guess.
Just because it isn't an open platform doesn't mean it doesn't have things in common with Steam. It's basically the same thing but on closed hardware. If the fact it's on closed hardware is a deal breaker to you, ok.
It is also possible that these websites that are putting out negative articles on this policy are looking to capitalize on the frothing gaming public that are looking for journalists to share their opinions
How does this work? If the game was installed on your computer but you couldn't sign into Steam for some reason, how would you play it?
How many of those did you buy for under $10? Under $5?
The whole purpose of trading in a game is to lessen the true cost you are paying for a console game. If you pay $60 for a new console game and get back whatever a microsoft-approved reseller wants to give you when you trade it in (IF the publisher has "enabled" you to), likely you still spent 30-50 dollars.
edit: and with fees now included, plus the cost behind this trading system, your return on the trade-in will less. Also, now there is a monopoly. Gamestop doesn't have to compete with the people I buy from - the amazons, ebays, and glydes out there who are gamers selling to gamers.
just launch the exe.
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
I don't know. I just bought Remember Me day 1 and it's not very good. I'd probably sell it to a friend for £10 or so if I could. But I can't. And I don't care, because I didn't purchase the game with the expectation I could.
You go out of your way to compare steam to Xbox1, and when the most crucial way by which they are different is mentioned, your argument is to ignore it because steam and Xbox1 cannot really be compared...
What does "less healthy" mean in this context? I'd think a market with intense competition between retailers, where price moves in response to demand, would be more healthy.
Ah, cool. I just tried this out with my copy of FTL and it worked.
I didn't know that was possible. It made the choice between redeeming Steam codes and direct downloading from Humble Bundles and stuff seem weird to me. Now I know there isn't really a tradeoff to using the Steam code.
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
You're trying to act like PC and consoles should be the exactly the same or the digital distribution can not be compared. When I buy a Steam game, I do it with the understanding I can not trade that game or gift it to a friend. Yeah, I can play it on the next PC I buy, as long as the game is supported by the architecture and operating system. That's an inherent pro of PC gaming. I don't count the fact I can't play Xbox One games on PS4 or possible on the next Xbox in 8 years as a black mark against it. It's just not something I expect with consoles.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
"digital distribution platform", another of the talking points.
You're working off a script and it shows.
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
I can't argue an opinion from anything but my own viewpoint. The issues you object to aren't issues to me. Xbox One actually does some things that I wish Steam did with digital purchases. The stuff it doesn't do, like an inherient compatibility with other systems, is something I'm accustomed to with console gaming. It doesn't stop me buying PS3 games knowing they won't work on PS4, and i'm not put off buying an Xbox One game because it's tied to the Xbox one system.
weekend_warrior
Banned
I've seen this exact same argument about "You sound like someone in the early 1900s saying that this whole electricity fad is going to die out" made multiple times, maybe even word for the same. It must be written on a PR Management whiteboard somewhere.
This sentiment really give me the shits. Can you not see why they are issues and why people are talking about them even if you don't think they will impact you? Can you not see that dismissing them simply because they don't concern you does nothing to placate other consumers who are worried about such issues, it just makes you look like a dick?
I get 2.5 Mbps, can't wait to spend 4 days to download Halo 5
Wolves Evolve
Member
Okay so you're happy.
Everybody else is unhappy.
We can now move on to discuss the way that Polygon, the WSJ, Time, and other news sources are using to discuss the things you're happy with and nobody else is.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Jesus, even Polygon has more journalistic integrity than GiantBomb.
Good on them.
Good on them.
PJV3
Member
Agent Dale Cooper
Banned
I think people just like a good whine and bitch. If people are constantly being actually affected by these design choices in a year, there will be a retaliation. Right now I don't put much value in the outrage because its not based on actual experiences they've had.
You're season 2 finale Agent Dale Cooper, aren't you?