Soon was sounding like a few months and then we responded, people said we were silly to protest and look what happened. Since PS4 won't be that way and most likely neither will Xbox, soon now means six years from now at a minimum. Lets say PS4 is a big success, why would Sony won't to rock the boat for PS5? Soon is starting to sound very far away. There is much to be determined yet, for all we know these online only games that the industry is pushing don't do well. That throws a big monkey wrench into all the plans.
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Could MS slowly bring back their DRM features over time?
- Thread starter Boke1879
- Start date
Soon was sounding like a few months and then we responded, people said we were silly to protest and look what happened. Since PS4 won't be that way and most likely neither will Xbox, soon now means six years from now at a minimum. Lets say PS4 is a big success, why would Sony won't to rock the boat for PS5? Soon is starting to sound very far away. There is much to be determined yet, for all we know these online only games that the industry is pushing don't do well. That throws a big monkey wrench into all the plans.
christiankid7
Member
Sony tried going the arrogant route with the PS3, didn't work. Sony now is in pretty bad shape and most likely cannot afford to lose any sales. Especially since they're selling at a loss.
Nintendo...is hard to read sometimes. I don't really know. They could, but I'd think they wouldn't want to cause any ripples, especially after the backlash. I don't know Nintendo that well though.
Okay, here's the deal: People who make the association between Steam and Xbox One miss the key point that Steam exists on an open platform (PC), while the Xbox ecosystem is entirely closed. You want to play an Xbox game? You play to Microsoft's tune.
To put it in another way: You think Steam would even exist today if the only way Valve could make money off it is if people had to buy PCs built specifically for it? That shit would've gone up in smoke ages ago.
I've made my own long-ass rant in the past on the subject (which sadly I can't find in my own post history. Damned cutoff...) where I basically state as much as you said: I fuckin' hated Steam when it came out. Lots of others did as well. No question about that. Took me years to warm up to it... But all the while, I was able to play PC games while merrily ignoring Steam aside from a few Valve games that were an absolute pain-in-the-ass to get working. (Lug PC to friend's house, use hit 'net connection for a few hours, make sure everything's up and running and off-line compatible, lug PC back to own home... Not a fun routine) I, and many others, only started using Steam on a regular basis once it was able to prove itself as a viable, consumer-friendly platform through years of providing good service, discounts, benefits, etc. And even now, there's plenty of other digital storefronts on PC that I can choose from if I ever find Steam to be lacking, between GOG, GMG, fuck's sake even EA made Origin more consumer-friendly by announcing a return policy for their digital games. That's what keeps Steam in check, and I can use it under the assumption that, as long as the folks at Valve don't go completely bonkers tomorrow, they'll keep providing a good service that I am willing to invest into.
And therein lies the problem for Microsoft. The Xbox platform is a walled garden. MS chooses what terms you play Xbox games. If they want to prove to consumers that it's worth investing in their digital platforms, they're going to have to spend a lot of time and effort to prove that it's consumer-friendly and beneficial to put money toward. Thus far, they've totally failed on that account, and because an Xbox One is required to play Xbox One games (whodathunkit), forcing that transition to a digital-only marketplace meant that consumers had no choice whether or not they wanted to adopt to the new rules. Scream and cry about the DRM reversal all you want, declare that it's an inevitable future from the tallest mountains all you like, but consumers will only hop aboard once they see reason to. Judging by the reversal, they don't see reason to yet.
Saying "Xbox One was just like Steam" ignores everything that exists around Steam to make it, even force it, to be the viable platform it is today. To say the digital future on consoles is inevitable by virtue of Steam being the dominant platform on PC is to ignore everything that makes Steam what it is now.
Final note: Best way for Microsoft (and Sony + Nintendo) to prove to me they believe in a vision of a fair digital-only future is to allow other digital storefronts on their consoles. This will never happen, but it'd speak volumes about dedication to consumer-friendliness.
EDIT: A handy-dandy Jimquisition video gives a good rundown on the benefits of digital PC gaming platforms over their console cousins, and why people are willing to adopt them compared to the backlash against forcing an equivalent on consoles.
Mass Effect
Member
I think they will, slowly, but not completely, and not on an OS level. Like someone else said, they might try to do it on a game-by-game basis. I think, for MS' games at least, Forza will be the new normal; Requiring a large day-one patch to have the "full" game. Those who don't do the update will have gimped versions of the games. Maybe they'll even go as far as to require internet for the game to even function. Hell, we're already seeing that with some games (Titanfall).
I wouldn't be surprised if they also released a version of the One without a disc-drive eventually either.
I wouldn't be surprised if they also released a version of the One without a disc-drive eventually either.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
It will eventually, but where MS failed was in forcing the transition by punishing physical buyers instead of incentivising digital downloads.
And even then I still believe there will always be demand for physical products.
And even then I still believe there will always be demand for physical products.
If they do begin to implement some of the policies that made me more than a little uncomfortable (ie. always on Kinect, face detection for logging into accounts, etc) - I will either not buy one, or be selling the one I owned at the time they announce that they are trying to bring that junk back.
Doomshroom
Member
Who knows but i think they are planing to, maybe in 3 years or so.
Wickerbasket
Member
You meanLOL at those results, dat Microsoft trust and goodwill on GAF
Microsoft is polling badly everywhere.LOL at those results, dat Microsoft trust and goodwill on the internet
They've been in the news for all the wrong reasons:
Always on DRM
Forced Kinnect
NSA scandal
Add to that their terrible PR spokespeople and you have a recipe for disaster.
It's great that they've made reversals on most of their anti-consumer policies, but they've lost a lot of trust from consumers.
a Master Ninja
Member
Not true, they updated it to make it less restrictive. They added the ability for users to re-license content to a new primary console so all downloads would work offline properly. This was something I complained about a lot (mostly on GAF) the first several years the 360 was on the market and they did eventually address it.
I think it is considering how before it was believed the DRM was system wide and somehow MS can release a patch to make it all disappear. There is a switch
Visualante2
Member
Microsoft's architecture is so monolithic, that I think some things will be locked in for the entire generation. Just look at how reluctant they were to change achievements, friends lists or certification... things they probably should have done. Once it's in the wild they don't want to change things up too much for fear of breaking other services.
The concern comes when you consider how quickly they have changed track on DRM. A lot of that code is probably lying dormant waiting to be approved by higher ups.
I look at the previous generation, how generous customer service gestures have been retreated because of game sharing etc. It's always going to move in the corporation's favour. More so with Microsoft I think. Sony seems more willing to evolve their platform (through catch up if nothing else) but they have cut back on some of the niceties afaik.
The concern comes when you consider how quickly they have changed track on DRM. A lot of that code is probably lying dormant waiting to be approved by higher ups.
I look at the previous generation, how generous customer service gestures have been retreated because of game sharing etc. It's always going to move in the corporation's favour. More so with Microsoft I think. Sony seems more willing to evolve their platform (through catch up if nothing else) but they have cut back on some of the niceties afaik.
Major Nelson x Angry Joe joke went over your head I think.
batigolalone
Banned
Not sure why this is even a question. The moment when they decide that the profit outweigh the loss/backslash, they will implement this bs again without a doubt. They are a business, not your school buddy. They based their decision on pie charts and shit, not your vocab opinions.
JiuJitsuka
Neo Member
They only backed off after immense consumer pressure. Means they had big hopes on it. Wouldn't be surprised if they'd bring it back, subtly. So yes, yes.
After everything that's happened so far, yes definitely. Couldn't trust MS as far as I could throw them.
...and I'm sure you swore up and down that you would absolutely never in a million years use that piece of shit DRM, corporate, etc, etc, etc.
...and yet here you are posting a detailed reasoning behind why Steam is fine and all the reasons that it's different from the closed Xbox. Instead of sticking to your guns and never using it, you are now defending it.
So while I really do understand that the Steam platform is "better" than the Xbox platform. I can't help but wonder what you will be defending it against in 5 years, because it's should be very obvious that physical media is going away and Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are not going to let anyone else set up shop on their consoles. So the scenario you are describing with the Xbox One is going to be identical across all platforms.
It's obvious that there will be some sort of DRM in place. The 24 hour check in was probably too aggressive, but it's happening.
Nemesis121
Member
It won't happen, MS had to do a 180 on all policies because of the bad press and negative reactions from gamers, they need to make money not anger gamers, if they bring it back then they are bowing out of the console business and the rebirth of the DRM policy is just a way to suicide..
You're building your argument purely on the basis of "digital is inevitable, so suck it up and deal with it." The point of my post was that it's the mistake others continually make in their comparisons to Steam.
People will adopt digital platforms when there's proof that the trade-off is worth it. In their current form, consoles do not make that trade-off worth it. People will not make the transition if they do not provide a real benefit while implementing system-wide DRM that removes the current advantages of physical media in the process.
I'm not saying that digital isn't the future (though I'm skeptical of the notion that physical media for games will ever go away entirely - certainly not within the decade like some folks believe), I'm saying this notion that people should will just hop aboard the Xbox One DRM train because "it's like Steam" is totally misguided. People aren't going to go all-digital because "it's the future", they'll go all-digital when there's good reason to.
I don't believe they will. The way I understood that statement is that they'll push digital distribution further but I doubt they'd be stupid enough to enforce their old policies as-is.
After that first update you wouldn't need to connect your device to the internet again, or so that announcement said, no?
Even if they did can't people file a lawsuit? Too obvious bait?
After that first update you wouldn't need to connect your device to the internet again, or so that announcement said, no?
Even if they did can't people file a lawsuit? Too obvious bait?
I was going to say yeah.... Sorry for being impatient.
Wickerbasket
Member
I feel like you didn't bother reading any of his post, which really explained everything.
Steam and Xbox One aren't remotely comparable because Steam is on an open system. People still have the option to buy DRM free digital downloads on PC from a number of different stores.
Xbox One was rejected by consumers and fans because it was taking away consumer ownership rights and required a constant internet connection. Both of those things don't belong in a digital future.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
No they can't for the XB1.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Wasnt a huge bullet point in that the ability to sell your games. As far as i know you cant sell your digital games on the PC.
You couldn't sell your digital games on the XBO either.
Wickerbasket
Member
So they claimed, there's no reason MS couldn't still do that with digital games if they really planned it. I find it more likely that they were just bullshitting so people would stop complaining.
Saying that, you're legally allowed to sell your digital content licenses in the EU and lots of PC games are DRM free, so there's nothing really stopping you from selling your games. With Steam, you could legally sell your account too, but it would have to be all the games in a bundle.
Digital rights are evolving, but it's a slow process. We aren't ready for an all digital future yet, but our consumer rights are catching up slowly.
Anyway, the point is that you have choice on PC; if you don't want to use Steam's DRM, you can still buy DRM free games.
Glorified G
Member
Not banned yet. hmm
To be fair, there was supposed to be some system where you could trade them in to select retailers [Gamestop], which would at least net you some money. Whether that was store credit, Xbox credit, or actual money, I dunno, and IIRC it had to be under a publisher agreement... But there was something there.
But yeah, far as I recall personally selling games directly to someone else was a no-no. There was trading at best, which was also limited by publishers' rules.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
I do think that MS will try to bring it back and when they do, it's gonna be shitstorm. Imagine average Joe buying a game for his Xbone and it's not working because he ain't online....
Oh cool, that's what I voted.
From the original release:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
It was disc-based game trade ins...not digital.
.
Oh, right. Was thinking only in terms of licenses.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Let me see if i understand this. Are you saying on the PC if i buy a DRM free game i can sell that file to a friend and he can play it, no strings attached? So the only thing keeping me from distributing that file and both of us playing it is my own honesty?
You couldn't do that with the XBO as well, you know?
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
I know that. Dude calm down im not even talking about the XB1. Im trying to understand how this works on the PC. Jesus!
I am calm. I just didn't know you were off the whole bullet point of MS allowing digital games to be sold back.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
I was never on that. The entire time ive been asking about the PC.
mm hmm buddy
Another one for the list...
That really wasn't clear, I was just clearing up what I thought you were talking about.
There is seriously nothing anyone could do to prevent a digital platform from happening. The idea that you are shipping a 2 cent piece of plastic half way around the world, so you can walk to your TV and put it in a tray is absurd. Games are the last place this transition is happening and it's long overdue. I think when you see the instantaneous nature of PS4 and Xbone it will be incredibly jarring to walk to your television to put a disk in the console.
You can pass it off as trivial, but it's absolutely not. For many people it's been years since they have touched physical media. Between smartphone app stores, Roku streamers, smart TVs, iTunes, Pandora... Disks are dead. I can't tell you when the last time I've seen physical media in someones possession and data will back this up.
It's less absurd when you consider that games are going to be 30-50GB in size and most countries still have to deal with pretty strict bandwidth caps. Data compression has only gotten better for movies and music, but games are going in the opposite direction and becoming more and more bloated. The transition to digital will be much much slower for games.
Seems to me that Nintendo would be the best candidate to go for something like this since most people would buy Nintendo games on the eshop and AAA third party on Steam. They could make an arrangement on indies where you could buy a game on the eshop and possibly purchase a steam key for an extra $1 or two. Sony would probably be the second closest to pulling it off since they have a heavy first party presence and they seem to be open to partnerships with Valve. The benefit Nintendo and Sony have over Valve is the good will of the indie community, since Greenlight was such a mess.
Everyone is capable, I'm just starting to get a little twitchy over the hate.
Man... I just want to game already.