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Polygon COD: Ghosts Review update: (XBONE better version)

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mitchman

mitchman

Gold Member
antitrop said:
It's actually far more simple than that.

Infinity Ward isn't as good of a developer as Treyarch and Ghosts isn't as good of a game as Black Ops II.

Boom.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's more about CoD being a money printing machine and can be developed with a "skeleton" crew for more profit. The incentive to invest in the engine comes when they no longer make a billion in the first 24 hours, but far less. When people no longer can be bothered to buy their crap, then they might change up and invest more in development. Until that happens, why bother?
 
A

antitrop

Member
mitchman said:
Maybe it's more about CoD being a money printing machine and can be developed with a "skeleton" crew for more profit. The incentive to invest in the engine comes when they no longer make a billion in the first 24 hours, but far less. When people no longer can be bothered to buy their crap, then they might change up and invest more in development. Until that happens, why bother?
Click to expand...

Heh, they shipped one billion dollars worth of units to retail stores.

How many copies are still sitting on the shelf at your local Best Buy?
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Shosai said:
Higher than what? Frostbite? Defining good is subjective, but my definition of a decent engine is certainly broader than "having a higher resolution, framerate, FOV, and textures than Frostbite".
Click to expand...

Defining good graphics overall may be subjective,(it's generally not, but hey, if you say so), but there are metrics for the things I mentioned, and generally, when those metrics are higher, the graphics produced are better.

However some people can wear rose coloured glasses and think games made on out-dated engines look better than those pushing new limits. I suppose in your case, this must be how you see things.
Again, i'd like for you to explain how an engine is decent given your "broad" definition, when to almost everybody else's eyes it looks sub-par.
 
S

Shosai

Banned
antitrop said:
Developers like Crytek and DICE have been working on updating their engines to make them "next-gen ready" for years (at the expense of current-gen performance, Crysis 2/3,BF3/4 are kind of a joke on current-gen), and now the fruits of their labors will pay off.

Activision has been pumping out sweatshop CoD games year after year without any chance to significantly upgrade the engine and now they are being properly left in the dust.
Click to expand...

You're falling back to pure hyperbole again. DICE, Treyarch, and IW are all on a two-year dev cycle, upgrading their engines with each iteration. You're free to hold whatever opinions about the games, but if you're going to throw around accusations of sweatshop practices, then you ought to point to something more indicative of an actual disparity in their approach to development. The idea that EA is some magnanimous publisher that never puts their studios under crunch is laughable.

Parapraxis said:
Defining good graphics overall may be subjective,(it's generally not, but hey, if you say so), but there are metrics for the things I mentioned, and generally, when those metrics are higher, the graphics produced are better.

However some people can wear rose coloured glasses and think games made on out-dated engines look better than those pushing new limits. I suppose in your case, this must be how you see things.
Again, i'd like for you to explain how an engine is decent given your "broad" definition, when to almost everybody else's eyes it looks sub-par.
Click to expand...

Well, this represents a shift in goalposts. The original argument wasn't over whether or not IW engine is better than Frostbite, it was over whether or not it's "good".
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
Parapraxis said:
Defining good graphics overall may be subjective,(it's generally not, but hey, if you say so), but there are metrics for the things I mentioned, and generally, when those metrics are higher, the graphics produced are better.

However some people can wear rose coloured glasses and think games made on out-dated engines look better than those pushing new limits. I suppose in your case, this must be how you see things.
Again, i'd like for you to explain how an engine is decent given your "broad" definition, when to almost everybody else's eyes it looks sub-par.
Click to expand...

Not only subar... ancient and archaic! The fact you need 6 gb and a 780 gtx is recommended on pc is beyond laughable! Might as well say pong requires a dual core minimum ;).
 
A

antitrop

Member
Shosai said:
You're falling back to pure hyperbole again. DICE, Treyarch, and IW are all on a two-year dev cycle, upgrading their engines with each iteration. You're free to hold whatever opinions about the games, but if you're going to throw around accusations of sweatshop practices, then you ought to point to something more indicative of an actual disparity in their approach to development. The idea that EA is some magnanimous publisher that never puts their studios under crunch is laughable.
Click to expand...
DICE wasn't busy porting someone else's game to the WiiU in the middle of their dev cycle...
 
D

Dawg

Member
antitrop said:
Heh, they shipped one billion dollars worth of units to retail stores.

How many copies are still sitting on the shelf at your local Best Buy?
Click to expand...

I visited the big tech store in my city. CoD is usually pretty sold out there.

It had every version... and the CE's. Even the prestige edition.

Nuff said.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Skeff said:
Also from what I've seen/heard xb1 has more dips than ps4.
Click to expand...

ibvanlLg85phb7.gif
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Shosai said:
Well, this represents a shift in goalposts. The original argument wasn't over whether or not IW engine is better than Frostbite, it was over whether or not it's "good".
Click to expand...

And I said in so many words the IW engine wasn't "good", to which you did nothing to elaborate how it actually was.
You claimed that engines are good on a subjective level, not based on measurable metrics.
Yet you can't explain in what way they are "good."
It's pretty rich you are saying I am moving goalposts, when you yourself can't actually articulate why the IW engine is good, when setting anything tangible or objective, such as resolution, framerate, FOV, performance, texture, AA etc aside.
 
S

Shosai

Banned
antitrop said:
DICE wasn't busy porting someone else's game to the WiiU in the middle of their dev cycle...
Click to expand...

No, but they were tasked developing the multiplayer for someone else's game (Medal of Honor, Medal of Honor: Warfighter). Criterion and Black Box also had to pitch in for Warfighter's driving levels, because Danger Close apparently couldn't build a shooter on their own. Your point?

Parapraxis said:
And I said in so many words the IW engine wasn't "good", to which you did nothing to elaborate how it actually was.
You claimed that engines are good on a subjective level, not based on measurable metrics.
Yet you can't explain in what way they are "good."
It's pretty rich you are saying I am moving goalposts, when you yourself can't actually articulate why the IW engine is good, when setting anything tangible or objective, such as resolution, framerate, FOV, performance, texture, AA etc aside.
Click to expand...

Great, and if your definition of "good" is "better than Frostbite", that's your opinion and we'll have to leave it there. I already spelled out why IW engine meets the criteria of being an effective game engine earlier:

Shosai said:
IW engine could be described as a "Frankenstein's Monster amalgamation", if the only other game engine to exist in the universe was Frostbite. As it stands in the game industry, IW engine is a highly-polished, highly efficient game engine capable of delivering AAA visuals at low latency to the satisfaction of millions of people and game critics year after year.

The fact that multiple studios can easily use it, modify it, and produce blockbuster games from it every year is a pretty objective measure of a good game engine. Your personal opinions of Call of Duty aside
Click to expand...
 
J

JacksUsername

Member
toddhunter said:
Nice post, but that still largely misses the point of resolution gate. Even if people don't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p it still represents a big difference in the capabilities of the two systems.

For an individual game it may not make all that difference. Where it will matter is when games are matched on resolution and presumably the PS4 has a lot more power in reserve to dedicate to other tasks.

For example in this case, you could presume they could drop the PS4 version down to 720p and get it running rock solid at 60fps or even higher right? (assuming it isn't a bug of some kind). It doesn't change much when looking to play the game, but it should be a significant point when deciding on a purchase of the console.
Click to expand...

Thanks and fair points in return. In terms of the larger scope of system power and purchase decisions, I definitely agree. The PS4 seems to have a lot more potential in scalability as the generation moves forward. I just wish that point had been made more clearly through the entire controversy, since as someone who only followed it casually, I mostly saw blurry image memes, vision distance charts, and game comparisons. So that's what typically annoyed me whenever I went into one of those threads, since on a game by game basis, it's really not that critical a factor to the majority of people, resulting in my mini-rant.
 
A

Appleman

Member
Yoday said:
IGN comparison video

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/12/call-of-duty-ghosts-in-1080p-ps4-vs-xbox-one-commentary

Interesting. PS4 version clearly sharper looking with more noticeable detail, and the framerate issue is "an odd minor hiccup".
Click to expand...

Just watched this in 1080p, although their player is garbage, it doesn't jive with the words that he's saying. In the video it looks like both versions are running at the same resolution, with some differences in colour palette.

Why do all of these comparison videos show the PS4 version running in the exact same resolution as the XBO?
 
A

antitrop

Member
mitchman said:
I don't know, but that was not my point. They need to feel it in their wallets to be bothered.
Click to expand...

Well, they're gonna feel it this year, once their shareholders start wondering why Ghosts sold less than Black Ops II. Sure, sure, sales were hampered by a small percentage holding out to buy the next-gen versions, but let's be real. This is the beginning of the decline.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Shosai said:
Higher than what? Frostbite? Defining good is subjective, but my definition of a decent engine is certainly broader than "having a higher resolution, framerate, FOV, and textures than Frostbite".
Click to expand...

At no point did I even use the word Frostbite, I am saying that compared to other games running on next gen consoles and PC the IW is objectively shitty.
And engines with higher metrics in regards to resolution, framerate, FOV, and textures, etc are across the board regarded as being better graphically. Not just "subjectively", these are measurable, and proved to be true.

You can keep repeating the fact that you think "good" is subjective though.

I'm still waiting for you to explain in what way, disregarding the things I listed.
Anyways, let's stop the back and forth, seems we're getting nowhere here.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Skeff said:
So to clarify superior framerate is important on cod but not on bf? Ok polygon.

Also from what I've seen/heard xb1 has more dips than ps4. So what gives? Look forward to the DF analysis.
Click to expand...

We have one video and one tweet from Jeremy Conrad both imply that Xbox One should have framerate dips... but all media says that Xbox One version is smooth 60fps, so?
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
I'm hoping sales for this drop like a stone and gives Activision a much needed kick in the rear. This is becoming as bad as some sports games that get released every year. Give the development team time to make a finished and polished product. There is really no excuse here for a game that makes billions of dollars.
 
iceatcs

iceatcs

Junior Member
Y

Yoday

Member
Appleman said:
Just watched this in 1080p, although their player is garbage, it doesn't jive with the words that he's saying. In the video it looks like both versions are running at the same resolution, with some differences in colour palette.

Why do all of these comparison videos show the PS4 version running in the exact same resolution as the XBO?
Click to expand...
Compressed video on the internet makes comparisons extremely difficult. The differences between resolutions will almost never come through in internet video form. That is why it is important to have commentary to go along with the comparison video like IGN did for this one. Compressed streaming video is MS's greatest ally in this whole resolution debate.
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
Parapraxis said:
At no point did I even use the word Frostbite, I am saying that compared to other games running on next gen consoles and PC the IW is objectively shitty.
And engines with higher metrics in regards to resolution, framerate, FOV, and textures, etc are across the board regarded as being better graphically. Not just "subjectively", these are measurable, and proved to be true.

You can keep repeating the fact that you think "good" is subjective though.

I'm still waiting for you to explain in what way, disregarding the things I listed.
Anyways, let's stop the back and forth, seems we're getting nowhere here.
Click to expand...

Dude, no one is going to win this fight. If there is something I learned is everything is defendable no matter how stupid it is. People will just keeping coming back with valid/invalid arguments. Let it be... if he enjoys it, all the better for him ;).
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
I just don't see the need to get worked up over it when it is obvious that we should move on from Call of Duty and move to other FPS games. I'm going Killzone /Battlefield 4 for now. Hopefully, Destiny lives up to its potential and that becomes the next big shooter.
 
iceatcs

iceatcs

Junior Member
ArchedThunder said:
I lost a lot of trust in DF after the BF4 next gen thing.
Click to expand...

I agree about the image quality trust problem because can be doctored very easy.
Framerate counter might be only option, but still can using a fake measure.


Hopefully someone make a framerate counter device/software for public unlike DF refused to share.
 
Blackage

Blackage

Member
Polygon knew full well what they were doing giving Call of Duty Ghosts a higher rating on the Xbox One. They knew it would create this kind of reaction/outrage, and they knew it would get them a ton of hits/news. There's no such thing as bad controversy.

That said, they're going to have to continue giving scores like this to retain any type of credibility, well what little they have. From what I know about Arthur Gies, and after this amusing debacle the website does seem to do some rather questionable press towards Microsoft.

We also know even if they do patch the PS4 version of CoD: Ghosts, they're going to ignore the higher resolution regardless and just give it the same 7 as the XOne version.
 
O

Obscene Jester

Banned
Appleman said:
Just watched this in 1080p, although their player is garbage, it doesn't jive with the words that he's saying. In the video it looks like both versions are running at the same resolution, with some differences in colour palette.

Why do all of these comparison videos show the PS4 version running in the exact same resolution as the XBO?
Click to expand...

It's because they both are running at 1080p. The Xbone is upscaled from 720p however, giving it a more pixelated look.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
ElTorro said:
ibvanlLg85phb7.gif
Click to expand...

I see all the people quoting this, but I'm curious if what you are implying by the GIF is what I get out of it.

Because reading all the anti-XB1 posts over the last month on Neogaf would have you believe that what you see in that GIF is what a large contingent of people on GAF believe the difference will be.

I've seen the argument 720p.. stay with 360. Like somehow the Xbox One outputs the same graphics and power of a 360.

It's reached absurd levels of crazy... who gives a shit if the Xbone version is better. It doesn't mean the PS4 sucks, or someone is picking a side on which console you should buy. Stop searching for confirmation bias.


Blackage said:
Polygon knew full well what they were doing giving Call of Duty Ghosts a higher rating on the Xbox One. They knew it would create this kind of reaction/outrage, and they knew it would get them a ton of hits/news. There's no such thing as bad controversy.

That said, they're going to have to continue giving scores like this to retain any type of credibility, well what little they have. From what I know about Arthur Gies, and after this amusing debacle the website does seem to do some rather questionable press towards Microsoft.

We also know even if they do patch the PS4 version of CoD: Ghosts, they're going to ignore the higher resolution regardless and just give it the same 7 as the XOne version.
Click to expand...

Or maybe, just maybe.. the Xbone version runs better. Why does there have to be a conspiracy everytime you don't hear what you want to hear?
 
A

antitrop

Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Shouldn't polygon be a banned site given they were essentially funded by Microsoft?
Click to expand...

You have to wonder if accepting MS' money for the "documentary" was the deciding factor in whether or not Polygon would be able to go live as a site or not.

And if it wasn't, where was the guy who should have said "Hey guys, if we do this, it will affect our reputation and credibility for the rest of the life of the site", and then you have to wonder how the people that told him to shut up had the balls to put up an "Ethics Policy" on the site.
 
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