efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Looks good, though didn't expect damage numbers to be so visible...
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25 minutes of Monster Hunter World footage
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Damage numbers is probably the worst addition to this game so far. Most stuff about World looks great, with improvements on the formula thrown in there. But even though I can turn off damage numbers its existence hurts some of my emotional attachment to MonHun fights as this organic thing.
The stats of equipment are such a huge deal in MH that I don't mind the addition to damage numbers at all. It'll be nice to actually see the final result of all those damage calculations that go on behind the scenes. That is the one part of MH I've always been confused about even after playing it for 10 years. To actually see how much more damage I'm dealing with a weapon that has 500 STR and 200 Fire damage compared to a weapon with 500 STR and 350 Fire damage will be informative.
ShemhazaiX
Member
The only difference between having damage numbers now, and the old Monster Hunter games is that rather than the numbers being on the internet somewhere for you to look up if you wanted, you now have the option to just see it on your PS4.
Damage calculation in MH is complicated with base damage , elemental damage , status damage and motion values.
It will be useful to have some new tools in the game to understand what are the weakest points of the monster.
Still don't like damage numbers and never will. As a compromise I would've preferred a training dummy in town that displayed damage values when hit. And yes I'm aware you can turn them off, that's missing the point.
But hey, at least they didn't fully cave in and add monster health bars.
At any rate, visible damage will at least help the hit feedback problem with bowguns. They've been better with it lately, with screen shake and different sound effects when hitting the right parts. When you get a good pierce 2 off it's very satisfying. But it's still not as intuitive as with melee weapons.
It's too bad the stream had the HBG user in a small screen almost the whole time. I wonder if some dedicated individual has analyzed it thoroughly in order to determine what's been changed.
But hey, at least they didn't fully cave in and add monster health bars.
At any rate, visible damage will at least help the hit feedback problem with bowguns. They've been better with it lately, with screen shake and different sound effects when hitting the right parts. When you get a good pierce 2 off it's very satisfying. But it's still not as intuitive as with melee weapons.
It's too bad the stream had the HBG user in a small screen almost the whole time. I wonder if some dedicated individual has analyzed it thoroughly in order to determine what's been changed.
NormalFish
Banned
I think I'd prefer damage numbers if they were stored in a log. Like, buy a book and train your cat with the felyne observer skill and then it will record all your damage hits including weapon used, attack used, monster hit, part hit, and damage value. Just seeing it on the monster looks kinda out of place, and I liked the hitflashes indicating weakness.
Equanimity
Member
Why does this game look so good? I have not particularly enjoyed any of the MH games that I've got to play but this one might just change that.
Night Angel
Member
I can't see the addition of damage numbers as anything but a good thing. The only previous way to see the effectiveness of each hit was to look it up, as the feedback was really only effective in telling you the weakest spot rather than the relative weakness of each zone. You couldn't really get any kind of accuracy from just fighting the monster unless you made sure to only attack one part until it died.
The ridiculously complex equations for damage obfuscated your effectiveness and made it difficult to pick between raw and elemental weapons. This time around, you'll be able to swap between them on a hunt to test it directly.
This won't help most people know exactly when to cap a monster (since most people won't be adding up their damage on the fly); they'll still need to keep an eye on monster behavior. All it does is remove the need to consult the wiki for damage info.
Some people think consulting the wiki is an enhancement to the game because it creates community involvement, but the size of that involved community is miniscule compared to the amount of people playing the game. Most (almost all) players contribute nothing to the wiki and only use it to figure out info that should be in the game.
The ridiculously complex equations for damage obfuscated your effectiveness and made it difficult to pick between raw and elemental weapons. This time around, you'll be able to swap between them on a hunt to test it directly.
This won't help most people know exactly when to cap a monster (since most people won't be adding up their damage on the fly); they'll still need to keep an eye on monster behavior. All it does is remove the need to consult the wiki for damage info.
Some people think consulting the wiki is an enhancement to the game because it creates community involvement, but the size of that involved community is miniscule compared to the amount of people playing the game. Most (almost all) players contribute nothing to the wiki and only use it to figure out info that should be in the game.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Thanks for the heads up. Will watch.
Training dummies wouldn't be very helpful as there are a lot of monsters with all kinds of body parts and resistances.
The best compromise is that you can turn it off.
Ghostofst4rm4n
Neo Member
I'm hoping as more of the demos come out that we get to see how the hunter guide is updated. I was trying to follow along when the hunter was harvesting any items. But I don't have an eye for translating any of the Japanese.
My hope is that as you forage items from the map, and kill/capture monsters, your hunter compendium is updated. It should hold use cases for item and item combos. As well as providing chances for item drops from monsters. For a long time it has always been a second screen experience having to look this up outside of the game itself. Please give me a reason to stay in the world they are creating. I'm all for surfacing numbers for those who want them.
Don't know why "Damage Numbers" is being seen as such a big deal if it can be turned off. Hell knows that for those who might not know specific weaknesses for monsters, this would allow some to experiment and see if certain weapons elements are more effective than others while also seeing their damage output. If it was something that couldn't be toggled, I would get the hate, but it is really raising complaints about something that can be resolved by going into the options and switching it to "Off." I know that for myself, I'm probably going to leave them on since I do want to know if I'm doing damage or not to a mosnter.
Other than that though, I can't wait to see what else we'll see in world since we got quite a bit of details just from the initial viewing. Pretty sure that we got alot of other things that could be seen as new additions too. Can't wait for 2018 to roll around.
Other than that though, I can't wait to see what else we'll see in world since we got quite a bit of details just from the initial viewing. Pretty sure that we got alot of other things that could be seen as new additions too. Can't wait for 2018 to roll around.
DrROBschiz
Member
I was turned off by the idea of damage numbers at first but have since come around on it
Seeing it in the recent demo made me realize that its not a bad change and can be toggled
Im over that small nitpick and simply want this game in my hands!
Seeing it in the recent demo made me realize that its not a bad change and can be toggled
Im over that small nitpick and simply want this game in my hands!
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Reason I'm not a fan of damage numbers is it feels much less organic than paying attention to monster behavior. This series has always strived for a sort of semi realism with its mechanics which was a big part of what made the hunting experience so immersive, and this kind of breaks from that norm.
It's no deal breaker, but I would have preferred it if there was another, more realistic way to inform players on how and where to attack monsters. For example, perhaps there could be detailed in-game anatomy charts for each monster indicating location of major blood vessels, crucial organs and their function (puncturing a lung would have a different effect than, say, a spleen or liver..)
There could then be entire missions based on dissecting captured monsters and gradually filling in these anatomy charts.
It's no deal breaker, but I would have preferred it if there was another, more realistic way to inform players on how and where to attack monsters. For example, perhaps there could be detailed in-game anatomy charts for each monster indicating location of major blood vessels, crucial organs and their function (puncturing a lung would have a different effect than, say, a spleen or liver..)
There could then be entire missions based on dissecting captured monsters and gradually filling in these anatomy charts.
I don't like damage numbers because it will disprove my head-canon that Aerial Bow is the strongest Hunter Style.
Damage numbers is a good thing. At the very least, it'll help finally solve the argument I have with my brother on who should get to hit a sleeping monster; his Lvl3 GS Charge, or my full phial Ultra Amped Elemental Discharge.
You don't go online to check damage values? At some point, knowing the exact damage values are necessary if you want fast times; especially important if you're farming for 1% drops.
Damage numbers is a good thing. At the very least, it'll help finally solve the argument I have with my brother on who should get to hit a sleeping monster; his Lvl3 GS Charge, or my full phial Ultra Amped Elemental Discharge.
You don't go online to check damage values? At some point, knowing the exact damage values are necessary if you want fast times; especially important if you're farming for 1% drops.
I would prefer it to be an armor skill or something but I don't think it's a big deal.
As long as it's a toggle, I don't mind their inclusion for those that absolutely need them to figure out what they're doing. Personally, I don't think they've ever been necessary with how great a job the game has always done with tells and the game also letting you figure out elemental resistances and weaknesses by simply looking at their accompanying armor pieces, but there are plenty of people in other co-op driven games that simply can't function without damage numbers.
You'd prefer an optional feature that many players would appreciate having which can be toggled on/off to be a specific armor skill instead? Why?
I mean, I can function without damage numbers, but I'd use it because the series does a poor job of telling you how much damage you're doing at all times with barrel bombs, poison, etc. I've got 10 ballista shots, should I use them or should I just go hit the monster with my weapon instead? Questions like that will be easily answered.
IMO if anything it teaches beginners early that you can't just hack 'n slash and actually need to learn how the monsters move and attack. But I might be biased as a GS main...
Night Angel
Member
You'll get a similar experience with other weapons, you just aren't punished as much for not having time to charge your attacks.
IMO it's not a truly beginner friendly weapon because it forces you to be great to get good results. Teaching mechanics is good, but throwing new players that far into the deep end might push people away.
IMO it's a perfect weapon to play with after getting used to the game for a bit, because it really does sharpen your skills like no other weapon.
This is exactly why it'll be nice to have numbers.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Not that hardcore of a player, to be honest. I don't care too much about rare armor and the like. Mostly play MH for the immersion.
Damage numbers are just a layer that doesn't need to be peeled back. Just makes it feel more like an MMORPG and it starts triggering the raider tryhard part of my brain. I 100% understand exactly why they are doing it but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
At least as an armor skill there would be a tradeoff and I wouldn't feel like I was intentionally gimping myself by disabling it. But autotracker was an easy to obtain armor skill too, and new players always complained about not being able to find monsters so I get why they wouldn't do it.
Who knows, maybe high damage zones are super small now. Or high rank online monsters just have a shit ton of HP and you'll need a group playing optimally instead of random goobers bringing fire weapons to Rathalos. Doubt it though.
At least as an armor skill there would be a tradeoff and I wouldn't feel like I was intentionally gimping myself by disabling it. But autotracker was an easy to obtain armor skill too, and new players always complained about not being able to find monsters so I get why they wouldn't do it.
Who knows, maybe high damage zones are super small now. Or high rank online monsters just have a shit ton of HP and you'll need a group playing optimally instead of random goobers bringing fire weapons to Rathalos. Doubt it though.
So it's there (put it in beginner armor sets, make it easy to gem in) so that it's easy for people to use it for research and understanding, but people are incentivized to go without it after they've learned what they need to.
Night Angel
Member
^Why should there be a disadvantage to wanting to see their damage? It's relevant information through all stages of the game, and the series has never been good at illuminating that info in the past.
If you just want it to be obscure, that's fine. That's why it's optional. But I don't get why it's better that you have to either waste an armor skill or perform calculations via mhwiki to learn that info.
If you just want it to be obscure, that's fine. That's why it's optional. But I don't get why it's better that you have to either waste an armor skill or perform calculations via mhwiki to learn that info.
Seems odd that you're bemoaning the existence of optional damage numbers as someone who never cared to see how much damage you were doing.
How would I be able to see how much damage my most powerful armor set can do then? How would I be able to compare my best sets with the most optimal armor skills for different weapons if I have to waste a skill slot on something that's tied to the HUD/UI of the game?
I mean, an armor skill that's completely HUD related makes no sense. It'd be like having the option to zoom in/out of the minimap as an armor skill.
Comandr
Member
This. this guy gets it. This is what I want to see. Bring on the numberrrrrrrssss.
Edit: It can often be a huuuuge hassle to get even a small upgrade for a weapon. Particularly if its not your "main weapon." Being able to see the real world effects of those stat changes will be a huge benefit.
By put it in beginner armor sets, I mean on top of other skills -- like all armor below a certain rank could have it. So it's not wasting armor skills etc. They'd still be there and easily accessible, so it'd still remove the need to look stuff up in wikis etc.
Once you know the most damaging hits and combos for your weapon and the weaknesses of the monster, the numbers only confirm what you already know. So at that point, it'd be neat to take the training wheels off.
I think there is something to be said for playing without them (and observing the feedback the hits give you), so it'd be nice if the game retained an incentive to play like that while still adding them to help people get into the game or figure out exactly how much dmg they're doing with new equipment -- seems like the best of both worlds to me. But without the incentive (just making it an optional setting), I don't think most players will bother so they'll probably miss out on the feeling and sense of reward from playing without them.
But again, it's not a big deal to me -- I've been hyped for the game since day one. This is a tiny nitpick for me.
edit:
It could also be an item so you could get it temporarily without speccing your armor for it. There's already precedent with psychoserum and the psychic armor skill. That's the sort of trade I like in monster hunter. Better than having the monster appear on the map all the time, I'd think.
Night Angel
Member
I'd say the thing to be said is that you learn almost nothing from that feedback. You see only what the weakest points are with no differentiation between any other parts. If the games did this better, I could see your point. But they don't.
If you get enjoyment out of it, that's fine. I don't see the point in keeping that layer of obfuscation, even if only for the late game. It helps with crafting end game sets and will be a great feature for determining if using environmental traps and monster fights are worth the time they take.
It's not 'optional' for me if it's just a menu option that makes me arbitrarily worse. Some people don't have that kind of mentality and I can't just turn that part of my brain off. If the information's available I'll want to see it even if the entire time it bothers me. Logical or not that's the way it is.
I fully understand that it's the simplest solution for the problem people had with needing external information to play MH, I mean I'm a gunner at least 50% of the time, I know. I'm not saying it's game breaking or demanding they remove it. I just don't like it. I'll just add it to the list of things I don't like about MH like Kushala Daora or gunlances and move on with my life.
Snowybreak
Member
Looks like a Monster Hunter I want to play. Also, the damage numbers are surprisingly smaller than I expected and don't really get in the way, love it. Also, GRAPPLING HOOK.
dragonlife
Member
Please don't move on. I want to know what about them you don't like now
.Night Angel
Member
I can answer to those.Please don't move on. I want to know what about them you don't like now
1. Constant fucking wind.
2. Garbage weapon that looks cool but drags hunting groups down, especially when you get blown to shit by the big bang.
Soul of the Beast
Member
I can not express how happy I am right now, this is the Monster Hunter I've been waiting for.
I still remember putting litereally thousands of hours into Monster Hunter 2G and Portable 3 on the PSP.
Back then MHP3 was a big deal in here East Asia, one of the biggest PSP system seller games.
After MHP3, MH3G suddenly became a 3DS exclusive, ever since then I stopped following the franchise. (I was a high school student, so I was poor as fuck, simply saving for the PSP took me an entire year. Getting a 3DS was impossible for me.)
I can't believe this day will come....a new Monster Hunter on the freaking PlayStation 4....PLAY . STATION . F O U R ......HOLY . SHIT.
I don't know how Japanese are reacting to this, but in here Taiwan we are hyped as fuck.
FuuuukYeaaaaaaaaaaaahh
I still remember putting litereally thousands of hours into Monster Hunter 2G and Portable 3 on the PSP.
Back then MHP3 was a big deal in here East Asia, one of the biggest PSP system seller games.
After MHP3, MH3G suddenly became a 3DS exclusive, ever since then I stopped following the franchise. (I was a high school student, so I was poor as fuck, simply saving for the PSP took me an entire year. Getting a 3DS was impossible for me.)
I can't believe this day will come....a new Monster Hunter on the freaking PlayStation 4....PLAY . STATION . F O U R ......HOLY . SHIT.
I don't know how Japanese are reacting to this, but in here Taiwan we are hyped as fuck.
FuuuukYeaaaaaaaaaaaahh
Night Angel
Member
Zin better come back.
I'd be really surprised if he wasn't in there. Despite the play for this entry looking more realistic, he's a staff and fan favorite. Plus, he's a goddamned dragon wolf.
Please don't move on. I want to know what about them you don't like now
kushala is a fucking asshole, his wind mechanic can go to hell, and I always have to farm that piece of shit a million times because his HBG is so good.
when filthy casuls post their hot takes about monster hunter combat being clunky they are wrong unless they mean gunlances.
I liked Kushala back in Gen 2 before he had his stupid black wind.
It's one of the best monsters in the series os yeah, it had better.
I'd love it if every flagship (except Azure Los) was in World.
It's one of the best monsters in the series os yeah, it had better.
I'd love it if every flagship (except Azure Los) was in World.
Night Angel
Member
Unpopular opinion time: I love the Jhen Mohran fight. I hope we get something like that in this one.
Some of the clunkier fights might actually be interesting with fresh gameplay via World.
I guess it's possible. Jhen is in MvC:I.
Dah'ren actually.
Speaking of Jhen and Dah'ren, is there actually any difference between them? I sure as hell couldn't tell, although admittedly I barely ever fought Dah'ren in 4U.
dragonlife
Member
Haha, I rarely have a reason to fight him, so I guess I don't have much of an opinion on him. I'll fight him in your honor later, since I picked up HBG a few days ago.
I use Gunlance
. It's one of my favorite weapons after Hunting Horn. I acclimated very fast to it and don't find myself making any errors with it. Controlling it feels really good to me, honestly. I tried Lance and I couldn't warm up to it, strangely enough. I'll have to try it again.Soul of the Beast
Member
I still remember the days when Zin was a new monster and all of my PSP MH buddies was like ''That's it, this is my favorite monster from now on.''
7 years after the release of MHP3, It is still my favorite.
<-- Best monster. Best theme song
Lyon N. Laap
Member
I can agree with the Kushala. Was always too lazy to craft a specific armor for it since it didn't really have much equipment I wanted (sole exception being it's HH).
Fight isn't really that bad with poison/a good HH though, and I do like the classic European dragon look it has going for it. But if you don't have those things or armor the fight is pretty obnoxious (can probably say this for a few monsters, but constant wind pressure is meh).
But Gunlance is amazing in the right hands, at least back in MH4U. Was good at breaking because of shelling, artillery god made for some mad potential damage, and Wyvren Fire has always been cool. Didn't bring down a hint at all if they knew their weapon.
MHGen nearly crushed the weapon's potential. But they did try to address the balance between shelling and poking (done poorly, but with a good idea I think).
A good Gunlance user will communicate when they Wyvren Fire/understand that Barrels/Greatswords go first on a sleeping monster.
Edit; As a Hammer player, I've been knocked down more constantly by Longsword users then Gunlancers, even adjusted for the latter's rarity.
Jhen has two tusks and a yellowish coloring, while Dah'ren has an oversized horn and a more orange-ish color. Their routine is different between the two of them, but they share the same animations and are fought the same way regardless.
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