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A.J. Delgado: Nicki Minaj Is Worse for Young Girls' Morals Than Madonna Ever Was

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Really you guys should stop with the "this is the root of urban decay" because you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Is it empowering for those whe arent full figured or have cosmetic enhancements ? No it it puts them down.

Much like American media in general puts down full figured women on the regular? Or is that different?

Open a magazine, it's still a tall skinny chick gracing the covers getting all the photoshoots. You still have horrible medical commercials about the risks of being fat and the new wonder drug that isn't covered by your insurance that will help you lose weight; there's always some facebook/tumblr post about shaming big girls, or some stupid new (and likely fake) fad like thigh gap; and stupid caption pictures about how awesome it is to be skinny. You're still going to have a much easier time as a girl finding clothes that fit you if you're thin, you're still going to see thin women dominating Hollywood. Really the cries about Nicki saying fuck skinny chicks is eyeroll inducing when you view how much American society as a whole basically says "fuck full figured women" on a fucking hourly basis.

The idea that Nicki needs to/should represent the overwhelming narrative is stupid. No artist ever empowers people from all walks of life. If you're a full figure girl then congratulations Nicki empowers you. If you're a super skinny girl then congratulations the entire American entertainment machine empowers you.

Hardly worth crying over.
 

XenodudeX

Junior Member
I don't understand why people on here cares if her ass is fake our not.

I mean once she's sitting on your face, does it really matter at that point?
 

Halcyon

Member
Yeah, I agree with you.

On the other hand, we don't really have mainstream male artists like Bieber or JT doing strip-dances, or helicoptering their hips.

That is where you're incorrect.

helicopter_d_gif_by_swerdsi-d57cfkl.gif
 
Open a magazine, it's still a tall skinny chick gracing the covers getting all the photoshoots. You still have horrible medical commercials about the risks of being fat and the new wonder drug that isn't covered by your insurance that will help you lose weight; there's always some facebook/tumblr post about shaming big girls, or some stupid new (and likely fake) fad like thigh gap; and stupid caption pictures about how awesome it is to be skinny. You're still going to have a much easier time as a girl finding clothes that fit you if you're thin, you're still going to see thin women dominating Hollywood. Really the cries about Nicki saying fuck skinny chicks is eyeroll inducing when you view how much American society as a whole basically says "fuck full figured women" on a fucking hourly basis.

The idea that Nicki needs to/should represent the overwhelming narrative is stupid. No artist ever empowers people from all walks of life. If you're a full figure girl then congratulations Nicki empowers you. If you're a super skinny girl then congratulations the entire American entertainment machine empowers you.

Hardly worth crying over.

The idea isn't that Nicki needs to represent all women, it's that she can represent whomever she wants without tearing down others. It's completely unnecessary and contributes to the overall problem of body-shaming.
 

sn00zer

Member
In addition to this article being sensationalist, worthless tripe, let's talk about the inherent sexism:

Nicki getting singled out for mentioning drug use et al while her male peers throw more revolting filth on the regular and the public tries to peddle that as ART. This is nearly always done under the guise of but think of the children; despite the fact that, anyone that has gone through schooling will tell you that, little boys (and girls) listen to male artists spewing shit as well. Why does Nicki, or any female peer trying to assert control over their sexuality, get singled out as having some moral responsibility towards the youth of the world?

Get a fucking grip.
I thin the difference is that Nikki Minaj and Katy Perry are specifically marketed to kids in some aspects.
 
The idea isn't that Nicki needs to represent all women, it's that she can represent whomever she wants without tearing down others. It's completely unnecessary and contributes to the overall problem of body-shaming.

So basically, you people are objecting to her overt "body shaming". If it were more covert like the rest of pop music would you feel better?
 
So basically, you people are objecting to her overt "body shaming". If it were more covert like the rest of pop music would you feel better?

She had an opportunity to not contribute to body-shaming, at all, in an industry rife with it, and she didn't take it. It's just disappointing.

Did I ever indicate anything else? Dial down the snark.
 
She had an opportunity to not contribute to body-shaming, at all, in an industry rife with it, and she didn't take it. It's just disappointing.

Did I ever indicate anything else? Dial down the snark.

Boo hoo she didn't, let's make a 8 page thread complaining about how she's exactly like every other pop star in that regard but we'll hold her to a completely different standard from them because...she's black and she's suppose to be the modern MLK/Rosa Parks for her community because of a bunch of pseudo-sociologists throwing out their theories on the problems in America and their laughable "fixes" born from a wholly pathetic reductionist viewpoint on the situation.
 

Kimaka

Member
The music industry quickly continued the trend. Beyonce, who once profited off her good-girl image, buried that persona last year under half-naked magazine covers, oddly explicit lyrics, and even a reference to drug use (one track’s title: “Blow”).

So modest and wholesome This was ten years ago. Songs like My Neck My Back, Lady Marmalade, Work It, and Milkshake were played on the regular along with it while teen pregnancy has plummeted in the following years. Minaj isn't doing anything different than musicians then and now. There will always be trashy mainstream music and it is up to the parent to teach their children what is appropriate to emulate.
 

theWB27

Member
Hahahahahaha.





Thank you.

It's kinda ironic that Angelus Errare is complaining about how "not representing" bigger girls is somehow "body-shaming," but then thinks that just "representing" bigger girls is not enough body positivity, and we have to tackle of body-shaming to make up for it.

That makes no sense.

By his/her standards, if Nicki JUST sang about bigger girls without mentioning skinny girls, she'd saying "fuck skinny people," which one can only conclude that what Nicki is doing is worse than what American society has been doing to bigger girls.




Anyway Angelus Errare, the problem with this isn't that Nicki is bigger than the average Hollywood model/singer, it's the rest of the song.

You know, the glorification of violent drug-culture, and the problems that poor/urban, especially black, people face due to this continued perpetuation of OMIGOD DRUG AND VIOLENCE AND MONEY MADE FROM BLOOD SO COOL BECAUSE I GET BRAND NAME STUFF.

Music's influence on this behavior is a bucket of water thrown into the ocean compared to the influence the environment, the people who they HAVE to be surrounded by and circumstances like shitty school systems.

I wish people would stop giving TV and music so much credit for this. There's a reason black leaders, whether it was the Black Panthers, MLK, or Malcom X, were in the communities trying to make change. Whatever their methods were.

Nicki Minaj isn't going to turn the tide one way or the other.
 

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
In what world is:

Fuck the skinny bitches, fuck the skinny bitches in the club
I wanna see all the big fat ass bitches in the motherfucking club
Fuck you if you skinny bitches WHAT?

Not attacking skinny people and only "standing up" for heavier girls?

No, seriously, I'm really curious. I would totally agree with you if the lines were just about seeing "big fat ass bitches" or whatever, but a patty in-between two shit buns is still a shit burger.

I told you Nicki is abrasive. Even in superbass she says she'll slap a hoe for looking at a guy she likes (in so many words). Many female rappers are like that, they want to be edgy and kinda mean to give off an air of superiority. I even told you about her rudely talking about natural hair. She's a bitch but she's hardly out to hurt the feelings of other women, especially not women she's never met.

If anything, she's sticking up for herself after the scandal involving her cover. That's what I gather.

She's mean for it, but hey, heavy women are given a ton more shit than what Nicki said in her song about thin girls.

The idea isn't that Nicki needs to represent all women, it's that she can represent whomever she wants without tearing down others. It's completely unnecessary and contributes to the overall problem of body-shaming.

What I don't get is why Nicki needs to be told this and criticized for being abrasive, when there's songs out there with people like Taylor Swift boosting herself up for being the girl on the bleachers and somehow that makes her better than the cheerleader. She shouldn't be doing that neither right? How's the girl who wears high heels worse than the girl wearing sneakers?

It's just a prop. I'm sure Taylor Swift cleared the air for herself after wearing heels to Emmy's, etc. Nicki is thin too, I'm sure she's not trying to really do any different.
 
Boo hoo she didn't, let's make a 8 page thread complaining about how she's exactly like every other pop star in that regard but we'll hold her to a completely different standard from them because...she's black and she's suppose to be the modern MLK/Rosa Parks for her community because of a bunch of pseudo-sociologists throwing out their theories on the problems in America and their laughable "fixes" born from a wholly pathetic reductionist viewpoint on the situation.

It's really hard to have a mature discussion with you when you erroneously assume I am attacking only Nicki Minaj and pinpointing all of the industry's problems with body-shaming on her.

Nicki has previously shown progressive views in a resistant industry. That is why this is disappointing for me.

God forbid I hold someone to higher standards than the rest of the trash in the pop scene. Is that a bad thing now? Am I supposed to just shrug and say "X pop star is worse"? I have very real problems with shit that Katy Perry, Miley, Iggy, and Swift pull--but did you happen to notice the pop star that this thread is about?
 
Thank you.

It's kinda ironic that Angelus Errare is complaining about how "not representing" bigger girls is somehow "body-shaming," but then thinks that just "representing" bigger girls is not enough body positivity, and we have to tackle of body-shaming to make up for it.

Not really, you guys are like livid over all of 3 words she uttered. It was in poor taste, but you people have basically be attacking Nicki as if she's built her entire career off of body shaming skinny women and it's what she's known for. It's such a stupid argument to try and levy; then when people pointed out how dumb of an argument it was the goal post moving began, and it became about how she needs to be MLK figure for the black community; you people reach this conclusion based on a reductionist viewpoint of why the black community is in the shape it's in. It's cringeworthy reading through and through. If Nicki had a history of body shaming the poor skinny girls out there then I would completely understand the outrage and angst over it, or at least I'd be more willing to entertain the notion that Nicki is a horrible person that many of you have been trying to argue unsuccessfully.

This becomes even more hilarious when people were going on tirades about how girls need to not idolize being full figured because it's bad for you when Nicki released the album cover, also going on about how women should be modest in dress as she sat there in a pair of Jays and a bikini thong, the same type of swim wear girls of all sizes have been wearing since the 90s and Sisquo released Thong song.


Anyway Angelus Errare, the problem with this isn't that Nicki is bigger than the average Hollywood model/singer, it's the rest of the song.

You know, the glorification of violent drug-culture, and the problems that poor/urban, especially black, people face due to this continued perpetuation of OMIGOD DRUG AND VIOLENCE AND MONEY MADE FROM BLOOD SO COOL BECAUSE I GET BRAND NAME STUFF.

Ah yes the reductionist argument. If you want to talk about the social issues plaguing poor people/minorities. Talk about them in full or don't speak on them at all; stop simplifying it to cause and effect. It's no more Nicki's job to address that, than it is Eminem to stop talking about AKing a bunch of kids because Little Timmy or Crazy Pete just might do it.

Since we're going to talk about the subject, I'll talk about it in full. The idea that poor people are selling drugs and are into gang violence because of music is an argument brought forth by those who don't have the mental fortitude to actually research the subject at any depth. If the argument they put forth was correct then drug dealing would be primarily an American product as rap is an American product.

The truth is culture influences music much more than music influences culture; people in urban cities have been dealing drugs and the like since the 80s and well before; rap music "glorifying" it didn't become a thing until the mid to late 90s. The actual reason for the violence and drug use/sales is simply due to availability of avenues of success. If you're poor you simply don't have many. When your educational institutes are below subpar compared to everyone else's (as the education system and it's value are tied directly to money put into it by the community) many kids are going to lose interest because there is no engagement. Then you look at their home life in which for many of these kids their father isn't in the picture most likely because he's in prison. He's not in prison because of rap music. He's in prison because despite whites and blacks dealing and using drugs at the same proportional rate, our "war on drug" laws of the 90s disproportionately targets African Americans. Because they do, cops are more likely to be in a black neighborhood shaking down people for illicit drug use/distribution.

People want to levy the argument that rap music/suggestive lyrics are the cause of the rampant drug dealing/usage among poor/black people are singing nonsense; because I just previously stated despite this misconception the reality is blacks and whites consume and deal drugs at proportionate rates. So now the question is...what is the excuse for whites? It's easy to sit here and point to suggestive lyrics as one of the "problems" but the reality is, it's not really one of the problems at all. It's commentary on the current state of our nation. You think girls are going out and fucking "ballers" and "drug dealers" because rappers are telling them to? You're not very bright if you believe such foolishness. Look throughout any country on earth and you're going to see the exact same occurrences within the more financially stripped segment of the population. They simply don't have many avenues for success so they turn to instant gratification. That is a human tendency, not a black one, not a poor one. In S. Korea, Russia, France and pretty much every other country...in these places among the poor populous many girls will use their body in order to get out of their current situation if they feel that's the best avenue for success. They see other girls who "made" it and assume they can make it too, despite also seeing how many women don't make it, or their situation worsens. Many turn to drugs to cope or deal because they feel they can get out if they do. They see locals who did such and ascribe to be like them; doubly so if these people take an interest in them and give them a sense of belonging that they can't get elsewhere.

The argument levied also becomes dumb when you realize that majority of Nicki Minaj's fanbase are affluent 12-16 year old white girls not poor struggling black girls. That is what it means to have mainstream appeal, to get that demographic buying your album. Young white men and women consume rap/hip-hop/pop at a much higher rate than black youth do because the former group has much more disposable income. Yet you're not seeing white girls by the dozen lining up to actually suck a drug dealer's dick. You're not seeing a bunch of rich white girls going into the hood to find them a "gangsta". They're not doing that because they don't need to. The kids who are doing, aren't doing it because some rapper told them to. They're doing it because they don't have many other avenues to get out of their current situation. Which is again why you can go to any country in the world, look among the poor populous and see the exact same phenomenon happening the world over. Music is a symptom of social issues, not a cause. It isn't in 2014, it wasn't in during the Beatles boycott, much like it wasn't when Elvis was banned from some radio stations because parents feared he was corrupting the youth, much like parents were trying to boycott Eminem, Marilyn Manson and other artists. It's pointless and utterly stupid as all of those artists just like kids are ultimately products of their environment.

You are basically making the argument "because America mistreats you, every single artist needs to be a shining beacon for black youth because it's their responsibility". It's not more Nicki's responsibility to be the beacon of truth for the black community than it was for Marilyn Manson to be the beacon for white community at a time kids were going around AKing schools and the like. It's a dumb reason to hold Nicki to a different standard than everyone else, and really is just a reductionist form of shift blaming the problems in America from our legal system, the political system's view of poor people, the lack of funding to better those who are poor, our horrible laws to everything else.

Either we talk about the issues effecting the poor in depth or we don't talk about it at all. The reductionist derping about "the music is evil and making our kids want to sell drugs, and makes little girls want to suck drug dealers dicks. Think about the kids <insert artist here>" is hollow and addresses very little. You people can continue to point to music, videogames and other things as the cause; but no matter how much you want them to be...they never will be. Because despite all of it, our crime rate continues to drop, our teenage birth rate continues to drop (at a much slower rate). While at the same time music/videogames/movies continue their upward trend of glorifying violence, sex, and drug usage. You're merely looking for scapegoats because you don't want to admit/realise that the issue are much bigger than something so convenient as music.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Both are extremely visually and lyrically tame by today's standards. OPP was so good. I didnt remember Queen Latifah was in that video.

Not really. OPP had as much transparent double entendre as anything in anaconda, and Rump Shaker was full of ... shaking rumps.

And you had Mix A Lot dancing on enormous fake butts.

People who think there is any qualitative difference in the salaciousness of today's pop vs. the 90s are wearing rose colored glasses.
 

I only skimmed the article, but the song seems pretty angsty if you are girl who doesn't have a big ass to show off in the club. I dig that women should own their own sexuality but I thought Beyonce was about that? A lot of her songs "shoulda put a ring on it" always seemed very women-empowering to me.



I am not crazy about the Anaconda song. I think Brazzers got Back (NSFW, actual porn music video) is a much better loop and well written. Sure it's actual porn, but a) it has Remy Lacroix in it, and b) it doesn't have Drake crying in it.



Also, I just came across Iggy Azalea... Is she the white washed version of Minaj? They seem like copies of each other. I can't tell anything apart anymore? Am I out of touch with anything that isn't pornhub or kink?
 
Not really, you guys are like livid over all of 3 words she uttered. It was in poor taste, but you people have basically be attacking Nicki as if she's built her entire career off of body shaming skinny women and it's what she's known for. It's such a stupid argument to try and levy; then when people pointed out how dumb of an argument it was the goal post moving began, and it became about how she needs to be MLK figure for the black community; you people reach this conclusion based on a reductionist viewpoint of why the black community is in the shape it's in. It's cringeworthy reading through and through. If Nicki had a history of body shaming the poor skinny girls out there then I would completely understand the outrage and angst over it, or at least I'd be more willing to entertain the notion that Nicki is a horrible person that many of you have been trying to argue unsuccessfully.

Yeah, look at me, so livid, attacking Nicki and her career whilst complaining she needs to be a black community figurehead.

Spot on. I actually think the song is decent but that part is so obnoxious and, worst of all, unnecessary. You can make a song that praises curves (or big asses) without tearing down others.

The idea isn't that Nicki needs to represent all women, it's that she can represent whomever she wants without tearing down others. It's completely unnecessary and contributes to the overall problem of body-shaming.

She had an opportunity to not contribute to body-shaming, at all, in an industry rife with it, and she didn't take it. It's just disappointing.

Livid.

I agree with all of it. "Feminists" are mad because Nicki and this song doesn't represent them, but these feminist tend to forget that the feminist movement isn't even inclusive to all females ffs. >.>

Stop inventing arguments. Who is crying about not being represented? And I don't even know what you mean by "the feminist movement isn't even inclusive to all females".
 
Yeah, look at me, so livid, attacking Nicki and her career whilst complaining she needs to be a black community figurehead.
Livid.

Yea because I'm clearly talking about just you. You're not that special. If and when I do talk about you specifically, I will quote you and address you directly. Bye Felicia.
 
Guess "you guys" means "backslashbunny" now.

Backslash, pkm, Prologue and others who have this idea that Nicki needs to/must be the modern MLK/ambassador for the black community as they've demonstrated in this very thread you've clearly failed to read at any length. If the shoe fits then yes I'm talking to you. If you haven't been advocating such...why would you think I was talking about you? Persecution complex much?

You can continue to pretend to be dense, I have no problem responding to you in that fashion.
 

Trey

Member
Boo hoo she didn't, let's make a 8 page thread complaining about how she's exactly like every other pop star in that regard but we'll hold her to a completely different standard from them because...she's black and she's suppose to be the modern MLK/Rosa Parks for her community because of a bunch of pseudo-sociologists throwing out their theories on the problems in America and their laughable "fixes" born from a wholly pathetic reductionist viewpoint on the situation.

No. Not you too. Angelus...
 

ohlawd

Member
the thing I find most surprising is finding out Nicki Minaj is marketed to young girls.

I get Katy Perry but Nicki? I'm outta the loop, yo. Thought she was like, young adult material.
 

studyguy

Member
the thing I find most surprising is finding out Nicki Minaj is marketed to young girls.

I get Katy Perry but Nicki? I'm outta the loop, yo. Thought she was like, young adult material.

Who says a demo has to be limited to just one group.

If you're old enough to turn on the television and swap to a channel, you're free game.
I have 6 year old cousins able to flip to youtube and make playlists, they're free game too I'd imagine.

The point of marketing is to get exposure after all.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Aren't there studies or something revealing that teens don't actually listen to music lyrics or take them to heart? I think to most of them it's just background noise but it'd be better if someone actually found that data. In my case I usually just listen to a song if I like the beat and flow of the lyrics.
 

Brakke

Banned
Won't somebody PLEASE finally think of the skinny girls???

Also, I just came across Iggy Azalea... Is she the white washed version of Minaj? They seem like copies of each other. I can't tell anything apart anymore? Am I out of touch with anything that isn't pornhub or kink?

Lol I love everything about this.
 

ohlawd

Member
Who says a demo has to be limited to just one group.

If you're old enough to turn on the television and swap to a channel, you're free game.
I have 6 year old cousins able to flip to youtube and make playlists, they're free game too I'd imagine.

The point of marketing is to get exposure after all.

yikes dude, that's approaching "no shit" tier

you know what I meant. I couldn't stop a 2 year old or 81 year old getting into Nicki.
 

studyguy

Member
yikes dude, that's approaching "no shit" tier

you know what I meant. I couldn't stop a 2 year old or 81 year old getting into Nicki.

No offense intended, it is what it is though. Sorry if I came off that way.
You regularly have kids getting linked to celeb content through ads or while they're rolling through even the kid friendly stuff on youtube. It's crazy stuff, but marketing execs know how to work it. Again, it is what it is though, till someone tells these marketers to do otherwise, they're going to appeal to as many people as they can.
 

Infinite

Member
A weak essay preaching to the choir. I really don't buy that the male gaze has been subverted in "Anaconda" or in any of the videos for her songs. One of the essay's faulty assumptions is that she has authorship of the music video. (Ever notice that music video directors almost never get credit?)

Nicki wrote the song tho

And video directors are credited all the time on the video itself.
 

Fey

Banned
I think perhaps, because I'm so thin, I probably don't notice fat-shaming songs... so... I'd love to have some examples of where this happens, especially since you said it's "much more abundance."

hmmmmmm i have to agree with you. you really scored a ~touchdown~ with this post, backslashbunny! as if the ~cat ate the fish~!
 
Yeah, I agree with you.

On the other hand, we don't really have mainstream male artists like Bieber or JT doing strip-dances, or helicoptering their hips.
No, we don't. Although to be fair, and this is purely anecdotal from what I have heard from friends, women don't really enjoy things such as male strippers (whereas men clearly enjoy the female equivalent) so merely being a 'hot guy' is enough for most women to enjoy.

Or, perhaps, in a culture where women are already quite scantily clad, one would feel the need to push the boundaries further and be more risque. Males in the industry may not feel the need to push those boundaries.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
Gotta teach those tweens about rimmin' somehow. How else will they come to accept it as a casual sex act that they will be laughed at and bullied about at school if they don't engage in it?
 
Nicki wrote the song tho
She gets some credit since it's an adaptation (for the lack of a better word) of her work and she acts in it, but the music video is not her (visual) words.
And video directors are credited all the time on the video itself.
But not in discussions such as these. Especially not in casual discussions. It's always "Lady Gaga's new music video" and not "[director]'s new music video for Lady Gaga's [song title]."
 

Ratrat

Member
No, we don't. Although to be fair, and this is purely anecdotal from what I have heard from friends, women don't really enjoy things such as male strippers (whereas men clearly enjoy the female equivalent) so merely being a 'hot guy' is enough for most women to enjoy.

Or, perhaps, in a culture where women are already quite scantily clad, one would feel the need to push the boundaries further and be more risque. Males in the industry may not feel the need to push those boundaries.
Wasnt Magic Mike a huge hit? Channing Tatum even gave Ellen a lapdance and the audience clearly loved it. The least these male popstars can do is remove their shirts.
 
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