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[Eumi]

Is the excuse to protect others from being spoiled just another way of telling people that if they want to see what happens, then to buy the game?

I wonder if this backlash will cause Atlus to back down, because this is stupid.

Definitely. Although it does remind me that originally p4 apparently had a message asking people not to spoil the game, so I wonder if that sentiment originated from the dev team.

 

[muteki]

Is the excuse to protect others from being spoiled just another way of telling people that if they want to see what happens, then to buy the game?

I wonder if this backlash will cause Atlus to back down, because this is stupid.

If I were to speculate I might think there is an anime/movie deal in place for a P5 adaptation and they want to protect that BD money, more so or just as much as game sales.

 

[marrec]

Well it's their job to cover games. Ofcourse they are free to choose what they want to cover as independent creators, but aren't restrictions like these more common in traditional games media? Like what they can show in their video review? I think atleast Phantom Pain had plenty of restrictions like this. Aren't there often some guidelines with the review copy sent. So the "professionals" have been and are still doing it. Or is this something that really doesn't happen anymore? But yeah, I can see these restrictions making the coverage less appealing to do if you aren't used to editing videos and really don't want to bother with that. Simple streaming is so much easier and effortless.

It's funny, I was just listening to the latest Giant Bombcast where they were discussing this specific topic. Jeff Gerstmann brought up two very good points that answer I think both your questions. As to, "it's their job to cover games" he simply says they will cover some other game. There's tons of releases and he's glad that they didn't plan an extensive amount of coverage for Persona 5. As to, isn't this normal? It is for pre-release coverage but is absolutely unique for post-release coverage.

At the end of the discussion he mentions that the Quick Look they recorded (A recording of about one and a half hours of the game) has not been uploaded to YouTube yet because it's not worth the hassle. This is a dude who's been making professional video content about Video Games since 1996 and is still hesitant to release coverage because he doesn't know what will happen to the video or the account if he does.

Clearly this is a major fuckup.

I understand that you're not effected because you don't produce or consume this type of content, but many multitudes of people ARE despite your flippant attitude.

 

[StarStabbedMoon]

Your boycott having zero effect because your message was not conveyed seems like it would be more of a problem for your own interests than theirs. Assuming you're really boycotting in order to change their future policies, and not simply throwing a tantrum, of course.

That's a funny way of saying "having moral standards"

 

[Zomba13]

Atlus can fuck right off with that shit. Especially with how the reason I got into the Persona games was through Giant Bombs full playthrough of Persona 4. If they pulled that shit back then then I wouldn't be a fan of the games and they wouldn't have gotten sales out of me.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

You can't play the whole "we're cool dudes" angle and then do shit like this.

 

[Sakujou]

Even though many people have proven that is bullshit? Why is Undertale so well regarded in the gaming zeitgeist? Life is Strange? Oxenfree even?

Come on, stop with this. There have been success stories of single player, story based games succeeding on the backs of streamers.

i dont want to say, you are completely wrong, but the "creator" of the original content can do as he/she pleases. time has proven that youtube is right, with being everyhint revealed on there.

there maybe people who buy games, after they have seen them on youtube, but i dont know a single person anymore in my circle of friends, who are still playing/interested in videogames, who watch and afterwards go and buy a "single-player-game".


there have been also reports of devs, who saw their games being popular on youtube, but not seing much of sales.

i dont want to compare this to piracy, since this is legal people streaming legal content, but if a company does not want to see their content streamed, people who go against that are propably as bad as pirating people? i guess?

 

[dhonk]

Atlus can fuck right off with that shit. Especially with how the reason I got into the Persona games was through Giant Bombs full playthrough of Persona 4. If they pulled that shit back then then I wouldn't be a fan of the games and they wouldn't have gotten sales out of me.

Same, bought P4 after seeing 90 percent of their play through.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

i dont want to say, you are completely wrong, but the "creator" of the original content can do as he/she pleases. time has proven that youtube is right, with being everyhint revealed on there.

there maybe people who buy games, after they have seen them on youtube, but i dont know a single person anymore in my circle of friends, who are still playing/interested in videogames, who watch and afterwards go and buy a "single-player-game".


there have been also reports of devs, who saw their games being popular on youtube, but not seing much of sales.

i dont want to compare this to piracy, since this is legal people streaming legal content, but if a company does not want to see their content streamed, people who go against that are propably as bad as pirating people? i guess?

Bullshit. Barring the legal protections afforded you, once you release your product into the wild, it should not be "yours" to control on any level.

 

[Envelope]

i dont want to say, you are completely wrong, but the "creator" of the original content can do as he/she pleases. time has proven that youtube is right, with being everyhint revealed on there.

there maybe people who buy games, after they have seen them on youtube, but i dont know a single person anymore in my circle of friends, who are still playing/interested in videogames, who watch and afterwards go and buy a "single-player-game".


there have been also reports of devs, who saw their games being popular on youtube, but not seing much of sales.

i dont want to compare this to piracy, since this is legal people streaming legal content, but if a company does not want to see their content streamed, people who go against that are propably as bad as pirating people? i guess?

"I don't want to compare this to piracy but let me go ahead and say you're​ as bad as people who pirate games"

Dude

Take a step back and look at the garbage you're spewing

There's 0 defense for atlus's position on this topic

 

[charlequin]

Well it's their job to cover games. Ofcourse they are free to choose what they want to cover as independent creators, but aren't restrictions like these more common in traditional games media?

Those restrictions are powered by reviewers having to agree to terms in order to get early review copies. They don't apply to copies bought off the shelf.

 

[thiscoldblack]

I love the Persona series and will still buy them, but shit like this... Come on, Atlus!

 

[darkwing-buck]

Lol Atlus is so backwards and obtuse.

 

[Gray-Fox]

are walkthroughs allowed on youtube?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Can someone who is capable of writing in Japanese well write a strongly-worded message to the head of ATLUS? Because they need it and they should know that this is not acceptable. They need to move on with time instead of stuck in the past.

Can probably just transcribe 80% of Ryuji's dialogue word for word to convey fan feelings about their social media policies.

 

[Lothars]

i dont want to compare this to piracy, since this is legal people streaming legal content, but if a company does not want to see their content streamed, people who go against that are propably as bad as pirating people? i guess?

How stupid of a post is this? There is no defense that Atlus can have on this. They are wrong and out of touch with how it should be and it will negatively affect their game and the preception of it. It's beyond dissapointing how they have handled this especially with how good of a game persona 5 is.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Those restrictions are powered by reviewers having to agree to terms in order to get early review copies. They don't apply to copies bought off the shelf.

And even if they did, it would be basically an adhesion contract which wouldn't fly in any court.

 

[Maggo007]

I assume there are trophies in the game that contain spoilers. Even if they are secret and can only be viewed by pressing a button. Wouldn't the same argument to contain spoiler also mean they shouldn't be in the game?

 

[LeleSocho]

Yeah it's true, but it's just not full playthrough coverage that makes some sales. It's any free coverage at all. Like aren't Pewdiepie videos usually very heavily edited and not uninterrupted gameplay from start to finish? People can watch a stream for just 3 hours and buy the game at that point. They don't need the whole 40 hours with every nook and cranny already explored before they get into the game themselves.

Yeah playthroughs are not the only important ones but they also a part of that... one would argue that it's principally stream/LP since LP/streamers could get people hooked on the game thanks to qualities not inherent to the game itself.
Also, again... we are not talking about a tiny portion of the game that they don't want to be streamed but what essentially is the whole game, even denying a tiny tiny fraction of the game would be stupid but here we are talking about the majority of the game and situations.

Your boycott having zero effect because your message was not conveyed seems like it would be more of a problem for your own interests than theirs. Assuming you're really boycotting in order to change their future policies, and not simply throwing a tantrum, of course.

My reasoning is: I'm not usually the guy that screams "boycott!" at every thing i don't like especially if i already bought the product (it's actually the first time), so if this made me so mad to actually do it i think that people more sensible on the matter are doing the same, adding all the people up i hope to reach a statistical relevance to change things around.
If my line of reasoning is somehow flawed and I end up being a lone wolf in this whole debacle so be it, i'm still proud of not encouraging and funding such a bad game from such a bad company.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

I actually canceled my order because of this sharing nonsense.

This went from one of my most anticipated titles to something that can wait.

Like many other people said, the reason I care about the series AT ALL is due to the Endurance Run.

 

[Budi]

I understand that you're not effected because you don't produce or consume this type of content, but many multitudes of people ARE despite your flippant attitude.

I think you got me there, it's hard for me to relate to this. But thanks for all the replies by you and others, you have all done good job explaining the other side to me. While I still personally don't see this as a huge deal that people should get angry for, I do understand the reaction a bit better and get that there's multiple reasons why this is so disappointing by Atlus.

Those restrictions are powered by reviewers having to agree to terms in order to get early review copies. They don't apply to copies bought off the shelf.

Thanks for the clarification and makes sense too.

Edit:

I actually canceled my order because of this sharing nonsense.

This went from one of my most anticipated titles to something that can wait.

Like many other people said, the reason I care about the series AT ALL is due to the Endurance Run.

This I still don't understand though, you like the series and want it to succeed. You like the series and couldn't wait to get your hands on it to play it. But this mild inconvenience to internet personalities is enough to make you skip the game at this time.

 

[bomblord1]

Ok, I've seen it mentioned too many times to not ask. What The Hyeck is an endurance run and how does it relate to Persona?

 

[LeleSocho]

Ok, I've seen it mentioned too many times to not ask. What The Hyeck is an endurance run and how does it relate to Persona?

Let's play made by the Giant Bomb guys.

 

[marrec]

Ok, I've seen it mentioned too many times to not ask. What The Hyeck is an endurance run and how does it relate to Persona?

Giant Bomb did an "Endurance Run" when Persona 4 originally released in which 2 groups of two commentators played the game while talking about it. It was called an "Endurance Run" because of the aggressive filming and releasing schedule, since the game was so long.

Anyway it was extremely popular and definitely helped spread the Persona and SMT franchise names beyond the niche property it was to other video gamers.

 

[bomblord1]

Giant Bomb did an "Endurance Run" when Persona 4 originally released in which 2 groups of two commentators played the game while talking about it. It was called an "Endurance Run" because of the aggressive filming and releasing schedule, since the game was so long.

Anyway it was extremely popular and definitely helped spread the Persona and SMT franchise names beyond the niche property it was to other video gamers.

Thanks

 

[dubq]

Hah

 

[Budi]

Hah

I chuckled at that. Devolver is definitely one of those publishers that has gained a lot by Youtubers and streamers.

 

[A-V-B]

So this is really about a fear of people watching the whole game on YouTube and not buying the game, and NOT about spoilers?

 

[dan2026]

So this is really about a fear of people watching the whole game on YouTube and not buying the game, and NOT about spoilers?

Yeah Atlus USA are talking crap.
The only honest thing they said was mentioning 'their Japanese masters'.

 

[JarrodL]

There's 0 defense for atlus's position on this topic

You'd be surprised.

I absolutely agree with Atlus and the content protection laws on this. Streaming the gameplay in a game like this can really hurt sales more than with other types of games.

Content piracy became so common that people think it’s righteous just because everyone is doing it. That’s not how ethics works, unfortunately. The people complaining about Atlus’s warnings need a reality check, imo.

I have to agree. We don’t allow people to just stream 2 hour movies, why would a 100+ hour narrative heavy RPG be okay? Is the value of all the work that goes into the game $0? Is it just the fact that you control it with your own input that warrants the $60 price? It’s a weird situation...

I also agree, I get Atlus’ position since this game seems to be heavily story-driven. If those streamers don’t like it they can simply boycott it and stream something else.

While I think there can be games that are good to share, linear story oriented games are not it.

My GF doesn’t bother buying any Telltale games because it’s easier for her to watch it. I got her Batman TT game, she enjoyed it but told me she rather watch the Let’s Play because she doesn’t have to do the work. And because it’s free.

I think competitive games are good for streaming but story focus games should not.

Right on!

I only partially get the allure of streaming/watching streams, and that is mostly for interesting plays in a competitive type game.

In a single-player mostly linear story, there is no need to stream it other than so people don’t need to play it themselves. This has become more than a minor issue with gamers lately, the attitude that people can say “No I watched 5 hours of XXXStreamdude420XXX and I’m not going to play that shitty game” or when in a conversation people can just watch a stream rather than actually play, and they then treat it the same as if they experienced playing the game themselves.

Get off my lawn, you whippersnappers.

Honestly my big reason with being ok with this, is that we live in a day and age where avoiding spoilers for games is increasingly hard to do, so I don’t mind that there a few less people with screenshots and videos of spoilers out there.

Completely agree, let’s not fool ourselves, the majority of people who watch let’s play videos are not going to buy the game because they have already seen what it is about. Much less in story-driven games where they can see the story unfold, what reason is there for people to buy the game if they have already seen it?. It may be debatable for games like Smash Bros, Overwatch or For Honor where the streams show gameplay. But in games like Persona ir is ridiculous.

I agree. Not to mention that it’s their product, their creation... at the end of the day, they have every right to impose the rules they want.

Agree completely. Streaming Persona games is too close to streaming movies. No way it encourages sales, best case scenario is it doesn’t take a sale away. Anyone complaining, I’d only get it if they got hit with a bad mark with no warning. But you’ve been forewarned, and you know Atlus’ history.

it kinda sucks but I have to agree. Sometimes you just have to look at it from their perspective. It’s easy to say “oh but it’s free advertising”. but sometimes, like you said, this “free advertising” can make you lose some sales.

For example, sometimes some people are curious, so they check out an hour or so of gameplay. But because of this, some will decide not buy the game anymore because they think they’ve seen enough of what the game has to offer. Or perhaps, you get immersed into the video/game only to find yourself already watching the first half of what the game has to offer. At that point, many would just rather watch the 2nd half. If this was avoided, who knows just how much more sales this could of become.

That said, there are companies who still do something to make streaming and uploading content possible like Nintendo, yet we still hear people complaining just because they don’t want to share a part of their profit. However these people are acting as if Nintendo is absolutely disallowing you from using their content when it’s not the case. Reason I added this bit is just to reinforce the fact that some people always want things their way, but in reality, just because you can’t have it your way doesn’t mean it isn’t fair. Like your last line, these people need a reality check.

I agree. I am not a fan of lets play videos, and never seen one for more than 5 minutes straight. For me, if I see one of them it would just spoil the story when I actually decide to get the game and play it myself. That is why I don’t see them. Now if you are 100% sure you won’t buy the game, of course you may watch one of those let’s play videos, since you may still want to see what the story is and watch it in it’s entirety if it’s interesting enough for you.

Who watches a complete let’s play video and then buys the game afterwards?

These are actual replies to the Kotaku article on the subject. Looks like there is indeed a defense force for everything.

 

[adamsapple]

I like the ironic big blue Share button below t he article asking people not to share things from their game.

 

[MrChowderClams]

Was really surprised to see this announcement - like many ppl here I got into Persona 4 after watching the endurance run.

I honestly wonder how much they're willing to invest in terms of enforcing this rule. I imagine it's somewhat costly to have someone go through all of the popular video streaming sites on the internet and issue DMCA takedowns for each piece of content that streams past 7/7 in the game from now through the forseeable future.

Edit: Take it with a grain of salt, but this was part of some internal research we conducted at Twitch on how streaming affects game sales: https://blog.twitch.tv/https-blog-twitch-tv-game-creator-success-on-twitch-hard-numbers-688154815817 - definitely have a look at it critically if you're interested in the ways that streaming impacts playing habits in games!

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

Indifferent about the streaming aspect, but goddammit- let me take screenshots of the game.

 

[Budi]

Indifferent about the streaming aspect, but goddammit- let me take screenshots of the game.

This is something I agree 100% with.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

This I still don't understand though, you like the series and want it to succeed. You like the series and couldn't wait to get your hands on it to play it. But this mild inconvenience to internet personalities is enough to make you skip the game at this time.

It's not a mild inconvenience. In fact, it's a major roadblock for people like me who stream to a tiny audience; those of us who don't want to invest a ton of money into a streaming set up.

I went over this in another thread, but one of my greatest gaming memories is playing Persona 4 with my brother. Now with the streaming disabled in P5, I can't recreate this.

 

[Budi]

It's not a mild inconvenience. In fact, it's a major roadblock for people like me who stream to a tiny audience. Those of us who don't want to invest a ton of money into a streaming set up.

I went over this in another thread, but one of my greatest gaming memories is playing Persona 4 with my brother. Now with the streaming disabled in P5, I can't recreate this.

Oh sorry, ofcourse it affects you more then. I didn't understand you were going to stream it too. And I actually can relate to this as someone who occasionally has friends or family as viewers in Steam.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Indifferent about the streaming aspect, but goddammit- let me take screenshots of the game.

If they just allowed this, I would be happy.

Unfortunately the most I think we'll get is them backing off their dmca take down stance, but leaving the share button restrictions in place.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Fuck them...seriously fuck them.

 

[Andrefpvs]

Indifferent about the streaming aspect, but goddammit- let me take screenshots of the game.

Same. I take screenshots for myself. I take them to reminisce about my playthrough after I finish the game. Or sometimes if I take a long break I look at the most recent screenshots to remind myself of what was happening.

Heck, at the very least give me my trophy screenshots. It's ridiculous how many system-level features this game is disabling.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Same. I take screenshots for myself. I take them to reminisce about my playthrough after I finish the game. Or sometimes if I take a long break I look at the most recent screenshots to remind myself of what was happening.

Heck, at the very least give me my trophy screenshots. It's ridiculous how many system-level features this game is disabling.

Yeah, it's going to be sad looking back through my trophies and not having screenshots. :/

 

[Graciaus]

I find it funny people are more upset about this than the Atlus tax that was on most of their handheld titles people gladly payed.

 

[Kazzy]

I actually didn't realise this was an actual thing until I tried to take my usual screenshots, and even then I assumed it was just a prologue thing.

This sucks, and yeah, how can this not be anything other than misguided and antiquated, to put it mildly.

I seem to remember FF Type-0 having restrictions on the most innocuous of things, like tiny snippets of dialogue that weren't even part of the main quests. It's cases like this that just go to show there's still some growing pains in the 'global' gaming community.

 

[Eumi]

I find it funny people are more upset about this than the Atlus tax that was on most of their handheld titles people gladly payed.

A company setting a price for their product isn't really the same thing as a company dictating what consumers can do with their product whilst threatening action if they don't follow along.

So the reaction is suitably different.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I actually didn't realise this was an actual thing until I tried to take my usual screenshots, and even then I assumed it was just a prologue thing.

This sucks, and yeah, how can this not be anything other than misguided and antiquated, to put it mildly.

I seem to remember FF Type-0 having restrictions on the most innocuous of things, like tiny snippets of dialogue that weren't even part of the main quests. It's cases like this that just go to show there's still some growing pains in the 'global' gaming community.

IIRC, wasn't the Type-0 thing related to song licensing or something?

 

[King Gilga]

Same. I take screenshots for myself. I take them to reminisce about my playthrough after I finish the game. Or sometimes if I take a long break I look at the most recent screenshots to remind myself of what was happening.

Heck, at the very least give me my trophy screenshots. It's ridiculous how many system-level features this game is disabling.

My number 1 regret with P4G was not taking even more screenshots than I already did.

Fuck atlus for taking that away from us.

 

[Keyouta]

I would have loved to watch a play through of the game, like giant bomb's, after beating it myself. These restrictions are only bad for the game.

Will the Japanese higher ups at Atlus ever get this message? How long is it expected that these rules stay in place? The game launched in Japan in September.

 

[Ritzboof]

These are actual replies to the Kotaku article on the subject. Looks like there is indeed a defense force for everything.

makes me fucking sick, and people defending this garbage a couple pages back is some crazy nonsense. i dont understand how you can be behind a company on this, just not even considering A. how the internet works, B. how online presence positively affects a games popularity, or C. the fucking law, let alone twitch/youtubes policies

in what way does any video game LP compare to streaming movies in their entirity? because it has story? thats not how this works, i know person is known for good stories, but it has gameplay if im not mistaken. i imagine theres some level of side content, and the fact that its a JRPG? that gameplay, and espacially commentary, makes that shit an original work if youre making content

as for the people that are like "it sucks but i dont see why its such an outrage", the threat of abusing content ID and copyright strikes to get your channel suspended or taken down should disgust you enough to at least scratch your head. this isnt even just an utter disregard for your fanbase and the people that wanna show your game to the world (or, yknow, the people that do this stuff for a living), its actively threatening and attacking them... and for what? spoilers? for gods sake, you cant even take screenshots

i dont see as much of it here as i did for nintendo stuff, which tells me more people are realizing this is horseshit, but this is still pretty crazy

 

[SirNinja]

If they are so protective about spoilers getting out, perhaps they shouldn't have taken 7 months to bring the game to the rest of the world.

I find it funny people are more upset about this than the Atlus tax that was on most of their handheld titles people gladly payed.

Probably because the "Atlus tax" has nothing to do with the topic at hand?

 

[Kazzy]

IIRC, wasn't the Type-0 thing related to song licensing or something?

The actual scene I'm referencing is in the chocobo stables, and it's just npc dialogue, and there's no change in music.

Spoiler

I'm sure it references character memory loss, but that's hardly a secret, and it's something that's openly discussed before/after that point.

It stuck out to me because of how unnecessary it felt.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

This is silly send what is there reasoning?

They believe people won't buy the game if they know it?