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[Angry Grimace]

Well what does that say about the citizens that voted them in / allowed them to be voted in? Say what you want about the US, we have (mostly) free elections and this government reflects the ignorance, fears and complacency of America. We get out what we put in.

The masses are mostly out of touch with reality and would never take responsibility for the guy they voted in passing laws they don't like even though he said he would pass such a law if he got elected.

Trump: "I'm going to repeal Obamacare if you vote for me!"

Dumb Voter: "Yeah, fuck Obamacare, I'm voting to Make America Great Again™!"

*Trump tries to repeal Obamacare*

Dumb Voter: WHAT THE FUCK HOW DARE YOU REMOVE MY PROTECTION FOR ALL MY PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS

 

[Lord Frieza]

I like the part where people whine that politicians are out of touch with regular Americans when in reality most "regular Americans" are uninformed blockheads that aren't in touch with reality. This is not limited to either side, either.

Example: people complained in the aftermath of the election that Clinton lost in those key states because wasn't tough enough on bringing back the coal jobs. Except the people who voted on that were too out-of-touch to realize coal is dying and that even if you brought coal back, most coal mining jobs are going to be replaced by automated mining operations.

The average voter is a gormless oaf who probably couldn't even find Russia on a map, much less give a shit about what they're actually doing.

The great irony of all that is that she actually did talk about transitioning those former coal miners into jobs based around clean energy, but almost none of that was covered over Trump's big time fairy tale of bringing back an industry that is basically gone.

 

[HStallion]

You can't blame folks for freaking out about their livelihood disappearing. A big failure of 21st century liberalism is its inability to offer proactive solutions to help people suffering from outsourcing and automation.

They offer far more solutions than the GOP who just want to tear shit apart in the nebulous desire for less big government and more states rights and personal freedoms. I think a prime example of this is the the healthcare reform. They've been railing against Obamacare for nearly a decade and when finally given the full reigns to "fix" it they can't even agree with each other.

I have a lot of issues with the Democrats but they offer far more solutions to issues, even if they aren't the best available than the GOP have in a long time. Unless of course we're talking about restricting the rights of women, minorities, immigrants and so on then the GOP is on the cutting edge.

 

[Father_Brain]

Opposition to Trump might be enough for 2018, but probably not for 2020.

 

[Ogodei]

Remember that a lot of people who will vote Democrat don't like the Democrats, same with Republicans (much of how "independent America" is actually a very small group, most independents are just embarrassed partisans or people who like to think they're special but aren't).

The average American voter doesn't like partisan politics even if most of them readily fit inside one of the two categories.

 

[Abounder]

Sounds about right. Minus Obama, Americans have not been happy with their politicians (or media). And hell yea we're pissed considering jack shit is being done to the worst wealth inequality we've ever seen, to the point where we are drinking poison drinking water and have nothing but decades of hurt to look forward to.

You don't, though. It is extortionately expensive and time-consuming putting up any kind of serious election effort, and requires a great deal of political experience and a good set of surrogates. You aren't going to get anywhere in politics without the support of one of the major parties; they act as gate-keepers to American democracy.

This right here. For crying out loud the Dem party went all-in on a candidate who had the worst ratings ever + FBI on her ass, party politics is cancer and leads to some pretty shitty risks/consequences.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Do people in this thread really wonder why Americans view Democrats as out of touch?

While Corporate Democrats go around pandering to the financial elite (see Hillary), big donors and global corporations (and give the carte-blanche on a lot of pro-big-business legislation alongside Republicans), half of Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck. Hell, if GAF is infatuated with looking at everything through the lens of race, where have the Democrats been in the last 25 years of destruction of black and Hispanic families under the racist criminal justice system?

If anyone here is still confused why Democrats are seen as out-of-touch, one anonymous Congressman explained it well in a book:

'Screw the next generation' and 'Harry Reid's a pompous a**': Democratic congressman writes Anonymous tell-all book slamming 'nation of naive, self-absorbed sheep' as he admits he never reads bills he votes on

- 'My main job is to keep my job, to get reelected. It takes precedence over everything,' an anonymous member of Congress writes in a new book

- 'Voters are incredibly ignorant and know little about our form of government and how it works,' he writes

- 'It's far easier than you think to manipulate a nation of naive, self-absorbed sheep who crave instant gratification'

- The author is a Democrat in Congress who laid out his complaints to a long-time friend and former Capitol Hill staffer who edited them into a book

Can anyone tell me one area in the life of Americans where things are working great? the economy? education? the justice system? infrastructure? corruption in DC?

The world is rejecting the failed status quo/establishment politicians left and right because shit is fucked up for most people in the lower classes. It's why populism is on the rise. There is hope though, as people that did not favor either party were overwhelmingly FOR a genuine candidate with progressive ideas (Bernie) by 60-40 margins, and people under 30 across all races favored a genuine candidate with progressive ideas (Bernie) by 60-40 margins.

I say bring on Nina Turner for 2020. I would give everything to see Trump attempt to debate a strong black woman, without committing political suicide multiple times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUZCbYtP3DU

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

rofl Nina Turner

that's a good one

by the way your link is from a banned website/source

 

[Lord Frieza]

Opposition to Trump might be enough for 2018, but probably not for 2020.

I mean, what do you see changing from 2018 to 2020?

 

[El_Tiguere]

rofl Nina Turner

that's a good one

by the way your link is from a banned website/source

My bad on the link. What do you have against Nina Turner?

 

[Lord Frieza]

The world is rejecting the failed status quo/establishment politicians left and right because shit is fucked up for most people in the lower classes. It's why populism is on the rise. There is hope though, as people that did not favor either party were overwhelmingly FOR a genuine candidate with progressive ideas (Bernie) by 60-40 margins, and people under 30 across all races favored a genuine candidate with progressive ideas (Bernie) by 60-40 margins.

And then Bernie lost

 

[El_Tiguere]

And then Bernie lost

Pro-corporate hacks in a party and a pro-corporate media made sure the anti-corporate candidate lost by all kinds of shady ass means necessary (in a time most Americans are starving for a pro-worker candidate). Now we have Trump. Yay?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

My bad on the link. What do you have against Nina Turner?

Sorry if I don't want a failed State Senator who failed a re-election bid when apposed to be our savior for the party.

She was one of the worst surrogates for Sanders, yet somehow she should run for POTUS because she's black and a women.

Sounds like a really good winning solution.

Pro-corporate hacks in a party and a pro-corporate media made sure the anti-corporate candidate lost by all kinds of shady ass means necessary. Now we have Trump. Yay?

Bernie lost when he decided the south wasn't worth playing for and put his baskets in a non-viable strategy when the system was proportional after the half way point.

Why we're going over this in fucking April of 2017 is beyond me, but if you want to blame the loss of Sanders on everyone but Sanders, you do you

 

[Lord Frieza]

Pro-corporate hacks in a party and a pro-corporate media made sure the anti-corporate candidate lost by all kinds of shady ass means necessary (in a time most Americans are starving for a pro-worker candidate). Now we have Trump. Yay?

 

[LegendofJoe]

Sanders proved that a democratic socialist can generate the needed support to win the party nomination. Someone younger and more charismatic that doesn't repeat the same strategy mistakes he did can absolutely take the Democratic nomination for President.

 

[JABEE]

You can't blame folks for freaking out about their livelihood disappearing. A big failure of 21st century liberalism is its inability to offer proactive solutions to help people suffering from outsourcing and automation.

Their proactive approach was joining with Conservatives to bust up unions and root out the commies.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think both parties and a fair swathe of the electorate are out of touch with what should be considered a reasonable sense of reality.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Sorry if I don't want a failed State Senator who failed a re-election bid when apposed to be our savior for the party.

She was one of the worst surrogates for Sanders, yet somehow she should run for POTUS because she's black and a women.

Sounds like a really good winning solution.

You forgot integrity, passion, smarts, etc. when talking about Nina Turner. Things that Clinton lacked (alright... Clinton is indeed one cunning Prima Donna). Besides, she didn't win the Secretary of State position in 2014 versus the incumbent Republican who had the big money behind him. Big whoops when Democrats were being shunned everywhere due to mismanagement of the country and the economic "recovery".

Bernie lost when he decided the south wasn't worth playing for and put his baskets in a non-viable strategy when the system was proportional after the half way point.

Bernie lost because out-of-touch 55+ party loyalists went for another out-of-touch status quo corrupt politician (Hillary). Bernie won the 45 and under Democrat vote... a.k.a those with the most to lose in a future filled with more economic/racial/gender/social injustice. The bingo crowd gave us Hillary, which ultimately gave us Trump. Yay?

 

[Black_Sun]

rofl Nina Turner

that's a good one

by the way your link is from a banned website/source

He's the right about everything else though.

The US is an oligarchy with a plutocracy.

Most policy is decided by the rich not the masses.

The same companies who fund republicans to do their bidding are the same people that fund corporate Dems.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Sometimes I really wonder if you Bernie or Busters really understand that the primaries where voted in by actual voters and not the DNC.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Sometimes I really wonder if you Bernie or Busters really understand that the primaries where voted in by actual voters and not the DNC.

Weird... if I relied on the media early on in the primaries, I would have thought Super delegates had already anointed their Party Queen. Actual voters had their electoral process rigged at the state level in multiple instances, so there's that too.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

You forgot integrity, passion, smarts, etc. when talking about Nina Turner. Things that Clinton lacked (alright... Clinton is indeed one cunning Prima Donna). Besides, she didn't win the Secretary of State position in 2014 versus the incumbent Republican who had the big money behind him. Big whoops when Democrats were being shunned everywhere due to mismanagement of the country and the economic "recovery".



Bernie lost because out-of-touch 55+ party loyalists went for another out-of-touch status quo corrupt politician (Hillary). Bernie won the 45 and under Democrat vote... a.k.a those with the most to lose in a future filled with more economic/racial/gender/social injustice. The bingo crowd gave us Hillary, which ultimately gave us Trump. Yay?

I like how basically everything about Sander is a fucking mirror and PAM Non-stick when it comes to responsibility in his role for not winning.

"No no no, it's not his fault. Not poor Bernie! Sure he can hand wave away his own major blunders, that's not his fault!"

It's those damn corporate Democrats like me that are keeping the man in power, making sure our special liberator who yells and screams the same fucking speech over and over while dismissing large portions of the democratic voting population as too conservative because they weren't the white middle class he was targeting.

Get. A. Grip.

Maybe if young people weren't so fucking lazy and voted you would have a better argument for trying to target young people with revolution hysteria. Instead he poisoned the well because he fucking lost and cried and cried for months as it was impossible to close the delegate gap. Oh poor Sanders, woe is Sanders, our hero destroyed by the corporate elite!

 

[Black_Sun]

I like how basically everything about Sander is a fucking mirror and PAM Non-stick when it comes to responsibility in his role for not winning.

"No no no, it's not his fault. Not poor Bernie! Sure he can hand wave away his own major blunders, that's not his fault!"

It's those damn corporate Democrats like me that are keeping the man in power, making sure our special liberator who yells and screams the same fucking speech over and over while dismissing large portions of the democratic voting population as too conservative because they weren't the white middle class he was targeting.

Get. A. Grip.

Maybe if young people weren't so fucking lazy and voted you would have a better argument for trying to target young people with revolution hysteria. Instead he poisoned the well because he fucking lost and cried and cried for months as it was impossible to close the delegate gap. Oh poor Sanders, woe is Sanders, our hero destroyed by the corporate elite!

That's funny because a lot of people in this very thread won't let have Hillary take responsibility for losing the election and put a chunk of the blame on Sanders

In fact you're even throwing blame his way.

Oh poor Hillary, woe is Hillary, our poor heroine was destroyed by racists and an orange buffoon.

 

[El_Tiguere]

It's those damn corporate Democrats like me that are keeping the man in power, making sure our special liberator who yells and screams the same fucking speech over and over while dismissing large portions of the democratic voting population as too conservative because they weren't the white middle class he was targeting.

So you have not been paying attention at all and are simply parroting pundit sound bites against a candidate you apparently know very little about?

Maybe if young people weren't so fucking lazy and voted you would have a better argument for trying to target young people with revolution hysteria.

Young people wanted to vote (especially first-time independent young voters), but the DNC spit on their faces by anointing Hillary. What you call "revolution hysteria," I call young people being crushed by student debt, lack of good jobs, increasing costs of living, bad health care, etc. Should I accuse you of promoting your STATUS QUO hysteria?

 

[Lord Frieza]

Oh fucking Jesus

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Oh fucking Jesus

You can either respond to his point or not post. This didn't add anything except pointless posturing to the thread, with perhaps a soupçon of virtue-signalling to the enlightened that you are a member of their team.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I wouldn't lump Democrats in with the GOP and Trump. Hillary didn't run a very good campaign, but would have been a much better President.

The Democrats are fine.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

That's funny because a lot of people in this very thread won't let have Hillary take responsibility for losing the election and put a chunk of the blame on Sanders

In fact you're even throwing blame his way.

Oh poor Hillary, woe is Hillary, our poor heroine was destroyed by racists and an orange buffoon.

Bernie caused issues that didn't need to exist. We already know that the vast majority of Sanders voters sided with Clinton. He didn't cost Clinton the election, he just gave us annoying buzzwords to spread around now.

You can write a fucking book (like people have) on why she lost, faults of her own by doing stupid things like keeping her transcripts secret (which were then leaked and shown to literally be the most benign things) and not going in key states to lock them down before the election.

At the end of the day more people did vote for her, she lost by 100K in three states due to an amazing spin and slander machine that has been 20 years in the works. She never did herself any favors with her speeches, she wasn't very inspiring and she constantly came across as robotic in many of her appearances. She played it safe to an absolute fault and never had a real message to sell to people, even if she had the policy to campaign on.

 

[Lord Frieza]

You can either respond to his point or not post. This didn't add anything except pointless posturing to the thread, with perhaps a soupçon of virtue-signalling to the enlightened that you are a member of their team.

His point is borderline insane, and you can not backseat mod, either, so unless you have something to add here you need to just take your own advice probably.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

We do,


but it will never happen.

Trump will never be president either right.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

His point is borderline insane, and you can not backseat mod, either, so unless you have something to add here you need to just take your own advice probably.

It's not modding to point out that the standard of a conversation has plummeted to the point nobody is taking anything positive from it. If we can't make a moral appeal in good faith to the conscience of our acqaintances, there's something more than a little wrong.

 

[Lord Frieza]

It's not modding to point out that the standard of a conversation has plummeted to the point nobody is taking anything positive from it. If we can't make a moral appeal in good faith to the conscience of our acquaintances, there's something more than a little wrong.

Okay, sure, see you then

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Bernie vs Hilary is eternal.

 

[RoninChaos]

I think a bigger issue democrats need to face is voter turn out. Old ass republicans show the fuck up. Consistently. But young people, the ones absolutely getting fucked by Cheeto Jesus, couldn't be bothered to show up. A lot of the Bernie crowd that I know (anecdotal, I get it) and people who were for Bernie online, didn't show up to vote. They treated Clinton like she was the worst thing ever. What bugs me about that is at that point there were only going to be two candidates with the possibility of winning, Hilary and Trump, and Trump one. I saw people who were democrats tearing down Clinton and through their own inaction helped get Trump elected. Now those same people are acting like the world is ending and want to wash their hands of any responsibility for who we have in the white house.

 

[Valhelm]

They offer far more solutions than the GOP who just want to tear shit apart in the nebulous desire for less big government and more states rights and personal freedoms. I think a prime example of this is the the healthcare reform. They've been railing against Obamacare for nearly a decade and when finally given the full reigns to "fix" it they can't even agree with each other.

I have a lot of issues with the Democrats but they offer far more solutions to issues, even if they aren't the best available than the GOP have in a long time. Unless of course we're talking about restricting the rights of women, minorities, immigrants and so on then the GOP is on the cutting edge.

"Being better than the GOP" is quite nearly the lowest bar possible. Certainly not what the Democrats should aim for.

 

[HStallion]

"Being better than the GOP" is quite nearly the lowest bar possible. Certainly not what the Democrats should aim for.

I think you gravely misinterpreted what I was saying. I think the Democrats are doing a far better job than the GOP who are just terrible and incompetent in general and its really showing now that they have all the power and can't do anything with it, even their usual shitty ideas. The Democrats still have a way to go and are stumbling to get there but I think they're far ahead of the GOP in general by not being obstructionist idiots with extreme tunnel vision.

 

[Cipherr]

I think a bigger issue democrats need to face is voter turn out. Old ass republicans show the fuck up. Consistently. But young people, the ones absolutely getting fucked by Cheeto Jesus, couldn't be bothered to show up. A lot of the Bernie crowd that I know (anecdotal, I get it) and people who were for Bernie online, didn't show up to vote. They treated Clinton like she was the worst thing ever. What bugs me about that is at that point there were only going to be two candidates with the possibility of winning, Hilary and Trump, and Trump one. I saw people who were democrats tearing down Clinton and through their own inaction helped get Trump elected. Now those same people are acting like the world is ending and want to wash their hands of any responsibility for who we have in the white house.

Don't forget they are blaming everyone else too. Throw a fit because Bernie didn't win and don't show up. Then parcel out the blame to everyone except yourself.

Charming.

 

[thepenguin55]

I wouldn't lump Democrats in with the GOP and Trump. Hillary didn't run a very good campaign, but would have been a much better President.

That bar is so low that an inanimate carbon rod would be a better president than Trump

I'm very curious what the 2020 election is going to look like.

 

[El_Tiguere]

I think a bigger issue democrats need to face is voter turn out. Old ass republicans show the fuck up. Consistently. But young people, the ones absolutely getting fucked by Cheeto Jesus, couldn't be bothered to show up. A lot of the Bernie crowd that I know (anecdotal, I get it) and people who were for Bernie online, didn't show up to vote. They treated Clinton like she was the worst thing ever. What bugs me about that is at that point there were only going to be two candidates with the possibility of winning, Hilary and Trump, and Trump one. I saw people who were democrats tearing down Clinton and through their own inaction helped get Trump elected. Now those same people are acting like the world is ending and want to wash their hands of any responsibility for who we have in the white house.

None of us could be in all of those blue-collar states that swung for Trump, because Prima Donna Clinton promised more of the same economic hardship and distress that Democrats ignored in those states.

Most of us saw that shit coming from a mile away however (during the primaries), because independents and young voters had been rejecting tired old status quo hacks around the world more and more. It was blatantly clear when they were supporting Bernie in 60-40 margins against Clinton (and Trump).

Most of us also saw it coming from a mile away since the Clinton email shit came out in 2015, and was bound to become a hot hot mess come election time (especially when you are running against a master troll like Trump).

Most of us also saw it coming from a mile away when the DNC anointed a candidate with a NEGATIVE rating and a DISHONESTY rating which were virtually on par with Trump (versus a well-liked candidate known for his integrity, like Bernie). This is why I remember a poll saying that less than 10% of voters were actually excited about either SHIT choice. Her being corrupt for 30 years, her destroying Hati, Honduras, Libya, and the warmonger shenanigans she was trying to pull on Syria, her being the protégé of Henry Kissinger, were just the cherries on top.

Most of us also saw it coming from a mile away because economics was the #1 issue in voters minds headed into the election, and Obama had a shit shit record with at least half of the country in that regard. It should have been clear that promising a third Obama term (with warmongering pro-corporate two-faced politics to boot) was a losing proposition.

The party (and the loyalists) decided it was "her turn" though...

 

[thecouncil]

I wish they would all stop partying and get down to business.

There's a country to run.

Dad Jokes 101

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Obama didn't have a shit record with the economy. It recovered and jobs were available. It's only because shit jobs like coal and mass agriculture is being automated. The wealth gap is a whole another thing, but apparently those guys didn't care if they elected a well known rich man into office.

 

[Autodidact]

None of us could be in all of those blue-collar states that swung for Trump, because Prima Donna Clinton promised more of the same economic hardship and distress that Democrats ignored in those states.

The poster you quoted meant that Bernie's young supporters couldn't be bothered to vote in the primaries - at least, not in numbers large enough for him to win. I could be wrong, though, and I invite RoninChaos to correct me. I certainly hope you haven't wasted an angry, illogical rant for nothing.