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After E3, how do you feel about the future of VR?
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shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Sold my PSVR a few months ago and nothing I saw made me regret it.
I'm not convinced that it's simply a matter of technological advancement either. I think most people really don't want to play their games this way.
I'm not convinced that it's simply a matter of technological advancement either. I think most people really don't want to play their games this way.
grosvenor_92
Member
I think it has its place within the industry but needs to be become a lot cheaper for people to actually buy into it
LittleBigGamer
Banned
I don't want to join. I just love stuff.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I'm very engaged by VR games coming out and E3 was no exception, but I still have problems with the points surrounding the purchase.
I think all of the headsets and software is still too expensive, and the exclusives for each system are really hampering my desire to pick up any of the devices. I want to play The Lab and Star Wars X-wing Mission.
I'm really keyed in on Skryim VR, Fallout 4 VR, and Doom. And there's already a handful of games out that I want to try.
I think all of the headsets and software is still too expensive, and the exclusives for each system are really hampering my desire to pick up any of the devices. I want to play The Lab and Star Wars X-wing Mission.
I'm really keyed in on Skryim VR, Fallout 4 VR, and Doom. And there's already a handful of games out that I want to try.
almostjuliuscaesar
Member
amazed Sony sold a million units in its infancy & looking forward to to the eventual blockbuster game. they seem to be confident in it and plan to support it. once the price goes downing they can get it in even more homes I'm sure we'll get some killer apps for it.
I'm a little bit shocked that MS is not interested into VR
Ummmm. Where are you shopping. These things are all over the place.
As for VR, I'm waiting for the next iteration.
outunderthestars
Banned
I find the tech clunky and too low res while I find the games to be incredibly boring.
Call me when the headsets are wireless, work much better, and there are games worth playing.
Call me when the headsets are wireless, work much better, and there are games worth playing.
GillianSeed79
Member
Stuff like Super Hot coming to PSVR has me hopeful. Skyrim VR is worth the price of admission so long as I am able to use standard controls and not have to teleport, but I'm partial to Sky rim. REVII is fucking amazeballs in VR, but I am a little concerned about the lack of big name games announced at E3. That mouse game looks decent though.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I was a little surprised, as they spoke about VR for Scorpio / X in the past but it seems like they are not ready to commit just yet and decided to wait instead.
GuitarAtomik
Member
MS is very interested. They're partnering with multiple companies to make Windows HMDs that run on their Windows Holographic platform. I think it's just that when it comes to Xbox, they're not ready. Phil's comments make it sound like they have a wireless headset in the works for Xbox (or Xbox compatibility).
Good post. This is exactly how I see it. A lot of the talk from the people who seem to actually root for VR's downfall completely mirror the conversation around mobile gaming's rise. VR games and flat screen games have their own strengths and weaknesses and they can co-exist.
It's weird to me that everyone just assumes that VR is just going to keep trucking along with a small enthusiast audience for the 5-20 years it will take for the technology to become more viable.
If developers aren't seeing good returns on their games, then the games stop (or severely slow). The poor market for software means that 2nd and 3rd generation HMDs flop, which effectively ends development of hardware. If game makers lose interest and headset manufacturers can't turn a profit then forward development on VR will pretty much halt. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen.......but it's naive to think that the tiny VR community as it exists is going to be able to indefinitely support developers and HMD manufacturers who need to see some significant ROI.
If developers aren't seeing good returns on their games, then the games stop (or severely slow). The poor market for software means that 2nd and 3rd generation HMDs flop, which effectively ends development of hardware. If game makers lose interest and headset manufacturers can't turn a profit then forward development on VR will pretty much halt. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen.......but it's naive to think that the tiny VR community as it exists is going to be able to indefinitely support developers and HMD manufacturers who need to see some significant ROI.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Developers haven't been seeing good returns on their games this whole time, but they like the technology and hope it will grow. Only a lack of hope and passion will stop the indie developers that are the true drivers of this tech. The triple AAA devs haven't even barely dipped their toes in, maybe the hair of their big toe.
Of course individual developers will have to bow out, but as a whole I think it will keep going for some time, hopefully until it really catches and they're one step ahead.
I'm not sure if you can build a platform on indies that are working with a shoestring budget on experimental products, though. Especially when there's a lot of opportunity cost associated with how much R&D and prototyping you need to do for new types of games.
The hardware seems like even more of a conundrum. At what point will the people who bought Gen1 headsets be ready or interested in Gen2 and Gen3? I can't imagine the people who just plunked down half a grand are really looking to buy a new HMD anytime soon. So how long will it take for necessary leaps in image quality and convenience to really manifest? Will the software market still be thriving years down the line when those future generations are ready?
RobertMuldoon
Neo Member
I honestly think it will be indie games that carry VR for the next little while, until there's the install base to justify AAA games
Yup. If the image quality on VR is not the same as how you see and love it on TV then it's going to hurt. This is the biggest problem with the Playstation VR which is causing Sony to screw up. Seriously, VR is definitely a force to be reckoned when-when done right in VR. As I mentioned before, Project Cars in VR on the PC is Godly, as for how these guys express greatly but on the Playstation side, if the horsepower isn't there to pump out luscious graphics then it's going to hurt your experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01KizKvFVhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tL1tOJxLQ
So yes. My point is this: do not be disappointed with VR as a whole. Be disappointed with Playstation VR. Because the horsepower isn't quite there, the VR experience shouldn't be applied to all games. A good example of a game where VR should be amazing is Wipeout because the graphical push in the game isn't strong in comparison to Project Cars, Gran Turismo, and DriveClub. My advice is this -
^ If you have a powerful PC then you MUST go for VR for it's incredible!
^ If you only have a Playstation (or you have a PC too but it's very weak) then you need to check for reviews and research properly before purchasing VR on the Playstation as the software you purchase will truly determine your experience as the PS tech isn't strong enough.
If people who are on the fence at VR are expected to only take into account their experience with high-end rigs, then I think there are very rough times ahead. Most consumers will have their first VR experience on a GearVR or PSVR with woefully underpowered hardware. If they don't enjoy it, I don't think you can easily just slip in with the proposition that they need to wait till they try Vive with a 1080 before coming to a conclusion.
I think we are approaching a situation where most people will snap to judgement after trying low-end VR solutions, and it is going to be very hard to counteract that. What everyone always feared may happen -- shoddy, low-end products like Cardboard, Pixel and GearVR may poison the well for consumers before they can experience proper VR.
Completely agree.
EDIT - It's a shame that Microsoft isn't pushing VR for XBoX for it should be amazing. However, my real guess that they are not pushing VR is due to the machine's CPU clock speed not being fast enough, and they don't want the devs to freak out about always needing to provide VR to their titles regardless of it is a case-by-case basis. Frankly, considering that the software cost is around $70 or more, these devs should push for VR regardless as people are spending handsomely for their software. I.e. stop be greedy, devs. Also, VR should be its own category as the gameplay style and experience should be unique and different along with appropriate crossovers. The biggest issue is that too many developers are making "quick wins" rather than thinking what can they make this with new tool that cannot be provided elsewhere. A prime example is Thumper, zombie horde games, and other titles where VR is not necessary and practically a waste. If VR doesn't take off then I'm sorry to say that it is not the technology fault, it's the industry on the whole and for Oculus, Vive, Steam and other platforms not providing a dedicated online store/crm that has quality control so the consumer can know where to go and experience the best of VR. Making the consumer go out to research too much is not a good thing in the long-run.
I like it still. Two reasons why I don't regulary play it though, it's just a bit of a an arse setting it up and in really waiting for Ace Combat. I don't see it as expensive though, I've seen some comparisons between a vr headset and 4k TV. I mean I simply can't afford to drop 1200 quid on a top 4k hdr tv
I haven't experienced true VR outside of the phone but I'm a firm believer of it being the future, even if it takes a couple decades. I don't even mean gaming. Just let me to sit in an immersive cabin to do my writing. I'm curious to see the quality of mixed reality headsets for mainstream usage later this year and where that goes.
SwiftSweeper
Member
I do not agree at all.
I have PSVR, and I have PS4 Pro. I tried Uncharted 4 and Infamous Second Son on my 4K tv. My tv supports HDR by the way. After messing around with these two games for a few hours, I went back to playing my PSVR games. Sure, both of these games look great and super clean in 4K, but they are the same games that I have been playing for many years. Quite frankly, I bored of most modern AAA games at this point.
Yes, PSVR games do not look as good as flat traditional games, but there are plenty good looking games on PSVR like Farpoint, Robinson: The Journey, RE7, Batman Arkham VR, Rigs, and EVE Valkyrie. Have you played any of these games on PSVR?
Furthermore, not all games need to have photorealistic graphics to look great either. REZ, Dick Wilde, Polybius, Playroom VR, Wayward Sky, Eagle Flight, Tethered, Psychonaunts, and Bound all look great.
More importantly, being inside VR far outweighs any graphical advantages of flat TV games for me, and I am sure I am not the only one.
SwiftSweeper
Member
VR mode for Thumper works great, and it is certainly not a waste. From reading forums and reviews, many prefer to play Thumper in VR.
polyh3dron
Banned
Make sure to buy Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR!
Please show me your pre order reciepts or I will get angry
I like VR, but I hate Bethesda Jank™.
I also am not a fan of Bethesda's approach to VR for the most part.
Oh, and dude who shat on the VR mode for Thumper, fight me. It is godly.
SwiftSweeper
Member
PSVR is not woefully underpowered. There are plenty of good looking games on PSVR. Also, artistic style goes a long way. It is also the most comfortable headset with the least amount of screen door effect among big 3 tethered headsets. In short, it is a very solid piece of kit.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Are there any upcoming sim games on the horizon? Cars, planes, space or whatever?
I personally feel that these are the only valid games, first person without moving for real is just weird. Then again, sims are one gazillion times better than any other game."
GTR3, Project Cars 2, DCS FA-18, MechWarrior 5.
I personally feel that these are the only valid games, first person without moving for real is just weird. Then again, sims are one gazillion times better than any other game."
GTR3, Project Cars 2, DCS FA-18, MechWarrior 5.
Gradly
Member
I said it before and still sticking to my stance, VR is gonna be similar to 3D, something came and went very quickly. I remember when 3D games were a thing now no one cares.
The issue is being inconvenience. Both tech need special equipment and pretty much a single person experience
But I think AR is gonna be a big deal, partly cuz it doesnt require special equipment at least in its base form
The issue is being inconvenience. Both tech need special equipment and pretty much a single person experience
But I think AR is gonna be a big deal, partly cuz it doesnt require special equipment at least in its base form
Stiflers Mom
Banned
This.
VR is amazing for a couple of things. Like on trade fairs or in simulators (I am working in that industry, and we are using HTC Vive a lot for that).
But when I come home, I simply wan't to open a bottle of beer, grab a game pad and have fun on my couch.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Thumper in 2D is a fun rhythm game. Thumper in VR is a fun rhythm game covered in existential dread.
Some of my favorite VR games aren't first-person. My most anticipated VR game is also not first-person.
Social screen.
Social screen asymmetric multiplayer.
Some of my favorite VR games aren't first-person. My most anticipated VR game is also not first-person.
Social screen.
Social screen asymmetric multiplayer.
Auto-Reply
Member
Cockpit games are not entirely different than first person games, and teleporting is actually more realistic in first person games than driving a car in VR because you are not moving at all in a first person standing game and the driving game is still missing the inertia despite moving around, it's a disconnect that you don't have with teleport.
There is nothing weird about teleport once you've played it a while, becomes second nature and is by far a more manageable way to move around than anything else in VR. People get instantly accustomed to it in Compound every time, very easy!
Cockpit VR is only better when compared tp playing a first person game sitting down with a controller in your hand walking around via stick/buttons. I think that's actually playing the game wrong, why are you sitting in your chair while your character in game is standing up? Why are you turning around via analog stick or buttons and not use your real body/head? etc etc It's wrong!
The best representation of a cockpit game is a slow space flight game where you can pretend to not feel the accelleration and it's still bound to make many people sick when their field of vision changes too much too quickly. I've seen this happen on the regular with Discovering Space 2, everything's fine when they are out in space, let them land on the moon though and the get hit by motionsickness.
Nah, as an avid VR fan, teleport is weird. I prefer games like Arizona Sunshine that have the option of teleportation but keep artifical locomotion for people that can stand it mixed with motion controls. Or games like Superhot where the fights don't take place while you're managing teleportation, but rather you're moving about the room physically. Teleport is the worst thing about VR, by far.
If you are not disappointed with PSVR and you are super happy with the offerings then that is great. However, there are people such as our fellow GAF poster, Border, who are not entirely convinced with PSVRs' offering. Some of the other posters in this very thread have already returned their VR headsets. Honestly, I am really glad you are all good but VR has to do A LOT MORE than just mere put you in a 3D world, it needs to provide the player with a new way of playing ganes. That's the true future of VR otherwise it will fade out quickly. This all boils down to the developer's offering and the marketing communication.
How does VR compliment the gameplay in Thumper (not a rhetorical question)? My understanding is that it doesn't compliment it at all thus it is just an extra, not a need to have. A driving game, VR makes a huge difference but not a game like Thumper. VR shouldn't just immerse you in the world with its' graphics, it needs to provide a new way of playing and/or compliment the gameplay, otherwise, it would just be seen as a "nice little experience" in people's eyes, which would then take a very fast turn to becoming a fad in respect to gaming. VR is certainly no fad but the devs need to deliver more.
Necron
Member
I want to buy a 4K OLED this year as well. Sadly, I think due to the emphasis being 4K/HDR in general at the moment (and in the near future this interest will only increase as prices drop) I believe VR will not catch on unless the software is extremely good, even then it remains kind of critical, to be honest. I somehow can't shake-off the feeling that VR is "just a fad" and thus haven't bought one, similarly to how I didn't adopt PS Move. In hindsight I really didn't like the motion control nonsense on the Wii except on a few occasions where it was amazing like RE4:Wii edition and Metroid Prime trilogy. In conclusion, the immersion with VR is certainly amazing and I hope it succeeds but I also think it'll take a long time and perhaps further revisions to fully utilise its potential.
Auto-Reply
Member
Of course options are better, but teleport is a must if you don't want to lockout outright a massive ammount of people. Many VR experienced people lose perspective of how many people are having problems with artificial locomotion if they only ever go by their own experience because they got used to it to some degree, that's what became obvious after many unexpected reactions of other people where I was sure they would react the same as me, but they didn't. This is and forever will be the biggest hurdle that VR will probably never overcome and the exact reason why the mass market success of VR is not depending on games (if there ever will be a mass market succes in the way many people hope there will be)! Teleport is not only the most natural way of moving around, it is absolutely neccessary for the medium to work at all outside of a small enthusiast bubble, even as part of that bubble, they (the devs) are not going to make games for VR forever if they scare everyone else ayway that suffers from motionsickness with no regards to options. I would actually be fine with indi games only as they are the best VR games at the moment, but even they will not want to stick to a stagnating or even declining user base, which is what not offering teleportation in these games would lead to.
I do not understand how anyone who played Batman on PSVR could walk away saying "Meh, it's a fad, I don't want to play games that way"
It's groundbreaking, the biggest shift in the gaming tech since 3D.
You're the same people that whined about High Frame Rate cinema looking "cheap" and now we have to make do with blurry, shitty 3D CGI for all movies.
It's groundbreaking, the biggest shift in the gaming tech since 3D.
You're the same people that whined about High Frame Rate cinema looking "cheap" and now we have to make do with blurry, shitty 3D CGI for all movies.
There's an assumption here that everyone experiences motion sickness in VR at first which is simply not true(I've never had motion sickness from using VR, at all, and I've used Vorpx extensively).
For people that don't get sick with artificial locomotion in VR teleport is nowhere near a natural option. For people who do get sick, teleport is a band aid. Plenty of people get scared away when they see teleport being the main locomotion option for VR.
There are other methods of assuaging motion sickness in development that are not so unrealistic, like an option for shrinking the screen as players move in some games to fend off motion sickness. This is preferable. There is no need to settle for teleportation.
Freeman76
Member
Conversely its naive to expect the community to remain 'tiny' as you put it.
rokkerkory
Member
I think we are still 3-5 years away. Also AR or MR appears to be more viable for me.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I've noticed that all of the senior citizens I've showed PSVR to experienced no motion sickness whatsoever.
I have to admit that I actually tried getting a couple of them sick once I noticed that. Nothing.
Auto-Reply
Member
I actually never experienced motionsickness (aside from rotation in Adrift) I was always extremely resistant to that and also never had problems in non VR fps games before in my life.
Saying that teleportation is the most natural way to move in VR is not stating a preference of mine, I actually prefer to move along using touchpad with speed control via controller angle and directional control via controller orientation. The best way to go forward is implementing both locomotion systems at the same time like The Solus Project (and a few other VR games) does it. You need to be able to switch to whatever you like without going into a menu!
Saying teleportation is the most natural is an objective observation that takes your senses and connections of your real life body and your VR interpretetion into account. I'm not saying it's the perfect way as you don't get the same geometrical sensation of scale and distance with teleportation that you get with artificial locomotion (and I really love that sensation, thus I prefer non teleport locomotion). It's just pretty hard to simulate inertia when you can't actually walk with your own feet more than 2 steps until you run into a wall.
So yes, teleportation is objectively the most natural way to experience VR that exists and I don't see that changing anytime soon.