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Aloy is my favorite videogame protagonist in recent memory
- Thread starter Memento
- Start date
Everyone loves Aloy because she's a proper video game protagonist. But if I were to objectively look at it, she lacks personality, same with geralt. It's usually done that way because the player experiences the world through thier eyes so they have to be devoid of personality so they become a shell for the player to inhabit. Good video game character but not great character overall
I didn't say she was entirely flawless, but rather a bit too much on the perfect side.
But alright, this one (imo minor) aspect could be viewed as a character flaw, but what I would say to that is: Is it presented as a flaw? Is it painted in a negative light?
Because I don't think it's intended to be a flaw. I perceive it as one because I don't think her attitude is at all called for and she ends up being antagonistic for no reason.
But clearly a lot of folks here enjoy her sassiness. From their point of view, what character flaws are there?
IMO there aren't any real compelling flaws that are explored in any meaningful way or add interesting layers to her character. Even if you contend that her abrasiveness is evidence of her being more flawed than I give her credit for, that's still not something the game actually deals with. It's just there and it has no effect whatsoever on her relationships to the people around her. Everyone likes her regardless.
Nor does she undergo any kind of growth as a person other than learning about her origins.
The Last One
Member
SPOILER
After she gains access to all-mother and then leave it, what she did in the cutscene about people worshiping her... Incredible, amazing character.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I had really low expectations after this Dynasty Warriors-caliber cutscene, but the game proper absolutely blew me away immediately, especially during The Proving segment. Top-tier stuff.
I know, there's something really appealingly dorky about her emotes and character in all of the memes I've seen. It actually makes me want to play the game as her and see if her personality matches the one I've fabricated in my head based on the material I've seen.
Femryder fanclub checking in. <333
Some of the accidental facial animations make me want this character in another game. I haven't played andromeda but his character has taken on a life of her own in my head. Strangely one of my favorite characters this gen. Aloy and 2B are up there, too.
I know, there's something really appealingly dorky about her emotes and character in all of the memes I've seen. It actually makes me want to play the game as her and see if her personality matches the one I've fabricated in my head based on the material I've seen.
Yeah, I agree with you. I really like Aloy and her design. She's got a round face which isn't a typical damsel face, she's cute not sexy, confident not arrogant and caring. But with all that, she's still very much an avatar that's devoid of personality just like Geralt
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I loved the character. Probably my favorite since Ellie and Joel.
The only thing I thought was weird was how well rounded of a human being she was considering that she grew up knowing no one but Rost, a principled but close minded guy who didn't talk much.
For a sequel I wish that she would get a few scenes where she loses all tension and gets to relaxe for once.
The only thing I thought was weird was how well rounded of a human being she was considering that she grew up knowing no one but Rost, a principled but close minded guy who didn't talk much.
For a sequel I wish that she would get a few scenes where she loses all tension and gets to relaxe for once.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Vanasha would be an awesome protagonist for a spin-off or fuck it even the sequel. I think Sylens is
gonna be a great villain tho
Heh, my favorite protagonist Kat is the opposite, she usually says keeps what's really on her mind to herself when she does shit for other people, and it's usually hilarious snark.
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with being just an avatar.
But for Aloy to be that she would have to allow the player to fully control how she responds to situations. As it stands the opportunities to do that are few and far between.
So I think they half-baked the avatar thing and they half-baked the character thing. They tried both but fully succeeded at neither. Because you can't have it both ways. You either go blank slate or write a fully realized character.
This is blatantly untrue. When
Aloy exits the all mother
This is shows that Aloy has developed a sense of self worth after discovering the truth of her past that is far removed from her childhood insecurity over wanting the love and aproval of others. Aloy has been able to put her bagage about her whole life as an outcast aside as she continues to accept her place of importance within the Nora tribe.
How is consistent characterization a sign of bad writing? Should she start as a bad ass and finish as Samas Aran in other M? Should she start as a less competant character so she can have a greater growth ark that is now rendered implausible due to her lack of competance at the games start?
How would she be more interesting to you? How could Gurella have improved Aloy to supposedly write a more "interesting" character?
polarizeme
Member
Man, I couldn't agree more, OP.
I was really nervous going into this game. GG's first open world game and, to be honest, I wasn't a big fan of KZ stuff. They were fun tech demos but lacked (for me) as actually enjoyable games.
Her design, both in character and physicality, were attractive without being needlessly showcased or sexualized. Voice actress and performance capture actress were both spot-the-fuck-on, IMO.
Just in general, though, I think the story and art direction were stellar. I didn't really know what to expect going in, other than what trailers had shown. I was expecting an "okay" game, but having a Pro and it being a totally new venture for GG made me curious. I think one of the best things GG and Sony did was to absolutely avoid showing entire sides to the game. It left me able to enjoy the adventure, mystery and discovery of what the character(s), story and world had to offer me and I think it played better and wound up being more enjoyable for it. I miss the discovery of games and movies because everyone markets the fuck out of all the details to the point where it's easy to lose that.
Anyway, I absolutely loved this game and Aloy as a character in general. I'm excited to see what this DLC is they've talked about, as well as what this little world has in store for us down the road.
Also... holy shit am I stoked to see what KojiPro does with the Decima engine.
I was really nervous going into this game. GG's first open world game and, to be honest, I wasn't a big fan of KZ stuff. They were fun tech demos but lacked (for me) as actually enjoyable games.
Her design, both in character and physicality, were attractive without being needlessly showcased or sexualized. Voice actress and performance capture actress were both spot-the-fuck-on, IMO.
Just in general, though, I think the story and art direction were stellar. I didn't really know what to expect going in, other than what trailers had shown. I was expecting an "okay" game, but having a Pro and it being a totally new venture for GG made me curious. I think one of the best things GG and Sony did was to absolutely avoid showing entire sides to the game. It left me able to enjoy the adventure, mystery and discovery of what the character(s), story and world had to offer me and I think it played better and wound up being more enjoyable for it. I miss the discovery of games and movies because everyone markets the fuck out of all the details to the point where it's easy to lose that.
Anyway, I absolutely loved this game and Aloy as a character in general. I'm excited to see what this DLC is they've talked about, as well as what this little world has in store for us down the road.
Also... holy shit am I stoked to see what KojiPro does with the Decima engine.
How the hell is she devoid of personality? I dont agree at all.
This is why I was so surprised by Ashley Burch's talent, since I'm used to her gags. Then I found out she was the voice of Chloe Price this whole time, and I realized she would really nail it. And for Horizon she has.
The Anointed wouldn't like all this praise, OP
But agreed, she's fantastic. After Killzone, Guerrilla was the last studio I expected a flagship protagonist from. But they pulled it off.
True hahah
CerebralTiger
Member
Combat? I'd say they're fairly equal in that area. One is great at hack and slash, the other does great mid/long-range combat encounters.
Granted, the way she treats the tribe and their beliefs the first and second time she tries to
enter the cradle facility
But I think there's something to be said about lack of consistency. If her dealings with the tribe in communicating what she has learned inside shows maturity versus the last time around (And I agree it does to an extent. Although bear in mind that you can choose to act agressively and vitriolic towards Lansra to gain access.), then there are plenty of examples to show how little she has changed, as well. In dealing with Resh, for instance.
She shows maturity and cleverness in navigating the Nora's belief system to get them to understand, in their terms, what needs to be done. But in equal measure she angrily chastises them for their worship.
But I don't see how this relates to her self-worth. She has gained some, but if anything she just seems more hardened and aware of the fact that she doesn't need the Nora (at least not on a personal level) and isn't like them.
Are you talking about "Aloy, despite the Nora"?
Radical Edward
Member
Combat is awesome in both. I loved how amazing all the different animations were in NIER. Neither was perfect though. Nier lacks a good middle ground between Normal and Hard. If you do the sidequests, it's easy to become OP. HZD was awesome when fighting robos but i thought the melee and stealth stuff was poorly handled
So a complex human acts somewhat inconsistently in a situation thats highly charged emotionally while still staying within the range of her core personality/ trajectory. That doesnt sound one note or boring like was previously being made out. These inconsistencies are her "Character Flaws" Aloy is stubborn and hotheaded and occasionally lets that get the better of her as she navigates tense political situations. Thats something a "Flawless character wouldnt do"
Aloy has never needed the Nora. Thats why the start of the story structures her as an outcast. The whole purpose of Aloy's journey is that while she may not need the Nora, they need her. Aloy's journey is built towards navigating the question of why she should bother helping them and making things better. In many ways Horizon's narative sets itself as opposed to the increasing indivadualist and objectivist views rampant in modern society.
How this relates to Aloy's own personal self worth is that previously Aloy had chosen to embrace the her situation as an outsider, she's snarky and abrasive and mostly acts out of self interest early in the game. After she discovers her origon she becomes increasingly focused on the success of others. Knowing her own value has changed Aloy from someone who seeks others to justify her own worth to someone who is more interested in seeing others realise their own value just as she has. From that moment on Aloy's quest for answers becomes motivated by her own curiosity (and the pragmatic reality that she is the only person who can save the world )rather then a need to validate and her existence.
Its quite a large transformation despite being presented rather subtley.
See I can't really agree with this. I think firstly she acts out of self interest for the majority of the entire game when it comes to the main story. She vigorously opposes sincere, desperate requests for help even from allies such as Erend ("Get out of my way!") and Sylens is often frustrated at her preoccupation with
her mother in the face of life-defining revelations.
when the entire world is threatened, does she fight for a purpose greater than herself, out of necessity.
On the other hand, when looking at the game as a whole and not just the main story, from the very start Aloy is more than happy to assist everyone she comes across, fetching boar skins, dreamwillow herbs, and running just about every trivial errand asked of her. (Which I think makes her response to Erend's request even more startling and weird.)
You can chalk all that up to the complexities of human behavior. But in my view that's uneven writing/characterization.
As for her fighting for the Nora, you did remind me of what Rost tried to instill in her in the beginning and how that sets up a beautiful arc. But where is that payoff to that arc, really?
The final conflict and battle are about the world at large, not so much the Nora. She comes to their aid when the Sacred Land is attacked, but I dare say her own goal within the mountain was her first priority.
I can see some evidence of what you're talking about. Like the way she talks to Varl, perhaps. You can sense a real desire there to enlighten and empower him, whilst also being tremendously patient.
But I struggle to come up with specific examples that point unambiguously one way or the other. I honestly feel like Aloy acts inconsistently throughout the game. Sometimes sassy and aloof, sometimes caring and impassioned. I think you may have hit it on the head by describing it as "subtle". I think you made a good case for some subtle thematic threads running through the narrative. But I can't help but feel like it's not very well fleshed out. And maybe those threads are more interpretation.
And that also leads back to the original point I made. Does any of this complexity really affect the world around her? Does the story deal with this? Are there consequences? Does she actually antagonize anyone with her attitude at any point and learn from that?
I think the answer is No to all of these. How she acts and reacts is as inconsequential as your own dialogue choices. I think it was just written as flavor rather than conscious character development.
Under that Criteria i think its really hard to find specific examples of how Aloy's behavior changes/effects things, because human interaction can be complicated and because Aloy's personal internal journey is tied by fate to many things that are much larger then herself. Do following those threads count as outward focused or selfinterested? I personally think there is a tipping point in the middle of the game where Aloys focus goes from Internal to external, however i could easily understand others having a different interpretation.
As for Aloy's conversation with Rost. That has 2 distinct payoffs. Once when
and Finally
On an unrelated note. I like Varl a lot. One of the better supporting male characters in this medium.
Edit: an example of this complexity effecting the world around Aloy is her relationship with Sylens. At some point Aloy overreacts and makes it all about her, he calls her out on it(He's a dick about it and later apologises) and she takes onboard that message.
As for Aloy's conversation with Rost. That has 2 distinct payoffs. Once when
Elisabeth is teaching Gaia emotion around the midpoint of the game.
In Elisabeth's final audiologs after the main campaign that serve as sort of a manifesto detailing Horizons world view.
On an unrelated note. I like Varl a lot. One of the better supporting male characters in this medium.
Edit: an example of this complexity effecting the world around Aloy is her relationship with Sylens. At some point Aloy overreacts and makes it all about her, he calls her out on it(He's a dick about it and later apologises) and she takes onboard that message.
If there is such a tipping point then I think maybe the game could have spent a bit more time developing that and making all this development more overt.
But yeah, I think there's no doubt the game has some strong themes and that those themes are not only well thought out, but tightly woven into the fabric of the story.
Elisabet's last log is indeed a nice payoff for what Rost wished for Aloy.
I liked Varl a lot, too. And I found it a bit frustrating that I wasn't able to show some amount of affection towards him through dialogue options. Instead Aloy felt the need to keep him at arm's length the entire time during the "Revenge of the Nora" questline,
before later out of the blue admitting to liking him to Rost's grave. Again, inconsistent IMO
I interpret Aloy's dismissal of Erend when she first comes to Meridian as her inability to sort her feelings from the
. She can't really handle others when she's occupied with her
.
When she's out and about helping the people from the small settlements, those thoughts are just swirling in the back of her mind, but when she needs to handle it directly
and talking about it with Erend she just can't be as nice because those thoughts take over.
situation at the proving
grief and anger
When she's out and about helping the people from the small settlements, those thoughts are just swirling in the back of her mind, but when she needs to handle it directly
by looking for Olin
Rexatality
Member
If this thread proves anything, its that GAF shouldn't ever be taken seriously when it comes to video game writing
Aloy? Inconsistent and shallow? Give me a fucking break
Aloy? Inconsistent and shallow? Give me a fucking break
I believe they usually call this the straw man. The protagonist curse because we can't give them strong personalities because the player. Compare Joel to Aloy for example, Joel actually makes decisions, Aloy often reacts to decisions. She's still well done compared to majority of what is out there but I never once thought ooh this is Aloy. She's everything you the player decides her to be, she has a range that goes from caring to defensive to aggressive. A character can be those things but usually within a spectrum. An isolated person will either be craving attention and do all they can to get attention or they become pure isolationist who don't like dealing with people very much. If you consider her upbringing and experiences, she isn't really reacting as a character would instead she's reacting as you the player would. She's essentially a semi avatar
Do you think that compromise really works though? Too often I found Aloy to react very differently from how I would and felt frustrated at not being given a dialogue option instead.
You're right, she's only a semi avatar, as well as a semi character. Sometimes you'll be playing Aloy, other times as Aloy. I think those two are at odds and they should have committed to one or the other.
I'll quote the other post I've made in this thread:
I am aware that not all characters need to have humble beginnings to be interesting (though she does have a bit of that in the prologue, as I've said). I just felt it wasn't good enough, at least from my experience.
The writing in general was halfway decent at best in my opinion. The problems I have with the writing far outweigh my annoyances with Aloy's character and personality, not to mention her not-so-great voice acting.
It may seem like I'm nitpicking, but I do this because I loved the game. Coming from Witcher 3's brilliance, I think I might be spoiled, but maybe it's just me.
Seems like Horizon was just a rebound RPG for you. It might be worth revisiting later. Also set the voice language to German if you dont like the English. Its fantastic.
It seems like most of your issues with Horizon arent about its lack of quality but rather your lack of interst with what it chooses to be. If you have problems with the writing more specific criticisms are usually better for discussion then "It must be bad because i didnt like it"
At some point when comparing Horizon to TW3 you need to accept the difference in scope and ambition between the two games. Horizon is trying to be a linear action adventure game that is set in an open world mostly for ambient reasons. TW3 is much longer and more focused on using choice and consaquence within its quests to tell its story. That is something Horizon isnt interested in doing. That is also arguably the most sensible choice given Horizon is the first game in a potential long running series and needs a largly uniform world for all players to progress the story. This was untrue of TW3 since it was the final game and could much more easily leave loose ends for its players in the form of multiple different endings
Well, first, I wasn't comparing the two games from a gameplay/world/ scope perspective, but rather from that of writing. How is the writing not good, you ask?
How about those cheesy little speeches Aloy gave at certain points in the game? Or maybe how some characters' dialog seems so forced and unnatural I felt compelled to skip them to get on with the game...
It's mostly something that's prevalent throughout most of the game in general. Sylens, for example, was one of the characters they got it right with. His dialog and voice acting were pretty good, in contrast with Alloy's jumbled mess.
I want to make it clear though, that I don't think the writing is bad. It's just usually mediocre with some good or decent exceptions. Compared with most videogames, it's not bad at all, and even great, but after playing Witcher 3, I could see the differences in writing and voice acting qualities.
You say it's my lack of interest with what it chooses to be, and I disagree. I think the flaws are there, and what I say does not stem from personal failed expectations, but rather from how the game presented itself. Of course it's my opinion, and obviously it's good that you and other people enjoyed the writing and liked Aloy's character. Just don't assume your opinion is a hard fact.