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[Fancy Clown]

That's kind of why I didn't like it. A civil war movie should've focused solely on the civil war, having it be the real battle, not a distraction created by Zemo.

The titular civil war is represented by a lot more than just that one airport fight. The civil war is every inter avenger conflict that climaxes with Captain America beating the shit out of Iron Man. The whole point of the movie was the "civil war", it wasn't a distraction for Zemo but the end game.

 

[The Artisan]

They're not "supposed" to be anything. You would prefer they be solo.

I'm sure in 2008 Spiderman wasn't "supposed" to join and the Guardians of the Galaxy weren't "supposed" to happen, but here we are.

no, they're supposed to be solo. that's why it has captain america in the title, not avengers. that's the point of the avengers movie, to be an ensemble.

This is such a weird way to look at stories. They didn't need anything to happen, they wrote it that way because of the trajectory set by the previous movies in the MCU. The Iron Man movies, Captain America movies and Avengers movies all dealt with taking responsibility for one's actions and it placed Cap and Tony at two opposing ends. Cap 3 is the culmination of those themes, events and their relationship.

it could have been done better. there could have been a film having civil war the main focus of it all instead of something perpetuated by another villain with an even potential greater threat, which was shut down by the end of the film anyway

The titular civil war is represented by a lot more than just that one airport fight. The civil war is every inter avenger conflict that climaxes with Captain America beating the shit out of Iron Man. The whole point of the movie was the "civil war", it wasn't a distraction for Zemo but the end game.

for me, the symbolism isn't a saving grace for the film, tbh. it's clear that as a captain america film the main thing he's after is this thing with bucky, not fighting the sokovia accords.

 

[Blader]

That's kind of why I didn't like it. A civil war movie should've focused solely on the civil war, having it be the real battle, not a distraction created by Zemo
The crossover films are meant to interconnect characters and their stories the most. The solo films are supposed to be solo. That line was blurred with Cap3.

That line was blurred back in Winter Soldier, which starred three Avengers + Nick Fury.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Are you seriously arguing that Marvel's good will doesn't cut them more slack? We have people here who defend Thor: The Dark World with "it's not that bad" level stretching.

Also see my "it's a better film than BvS" post.

Don't know about cutting slack. I DO know that it's popular to say there's a double standard. I've watched Civil War/BvS multiple times, and I don't find BvS a better after more viewings. I just enjoyed Civil War much more. I watch every movie..almost. Refused to pay money to watch Thor in theaters, although this next one might be my first.

Iron Man 2 was garbage. People that mention Thor 2 usually only do it to get y'all folks heated..it's funny to watch. Those who actually REALLY like it? Are they stretching? I dunno. Some of y'all will try to convince me broccoli is delicious. I'd rather eat shit covered glass. Opinions and all that..

It's not that there are actual differences in movie quality, you're just biased against DC and love Marvel!

And so are the vast majority of movie critics and audiences!

It's a worldwide conspiracy!

lol..I tell ya.

It's a Cap movie from beginning to end.

Yup..

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

no, they're supposed to be solo. that's why it has captain america in the title, not avengers.

Are you so pedantic to the point of no return that you need every character involved in a narrative to be named in a title?

Once again "supposed to" is your hang-up.

 

[The Artisan]

That line was blurred back in Winter Soldier, which starred three Avengers + Nick Fury.

2 out of the 3 avengers weren't major Marvel characters.

Are you so pedantic to the point of no return that you need every character involved in a narrative to be named in a title?

Once again "supposed to" is your hang-up.

i am a lot of things, if you call me pedantic that is another. your general attitude is a reflection of my closing statement in the OP about how an unpopular opinion can't go unpunished.

 

[RangerX]

Nah its easily in my top three comic book films. Its very much Captain America's story. Still love it.

 

[hipsterpants]

Overrated bloated movie that somehow manages to make it work, yet it still kinda dumb. Manages to be inferior to TWS in just about every way, particularly the action acenes. I'm 1000% mad we didn't get a third Cap solo movie and instead got Avengers 2.5.

Airport scene is garbage in the context of the movie.

After the hype of it being the best superhero movie ever, it ended up being my biggest disappointment of the year. Not bad but just... mediocre. Killed my ability to be hyped for superhero movies anyway. I'll watch it again tonight maybe and see if I change my mind at all.

 

[Bleepey]

Like?

Let's see General Ross' speech

There are some...
would prefer the word "vigilantes.

"

If I was Captain America I'd say. Let's see:

Tony Stark: I recall the govt asking Tony for Iron Man suits to do whatever the govt likes and you are now calling people like him a vigilante
Warmachine: Yeah you asked him to take down Killian/Mandarin in the last movie. Oh and US army Major
Hawkeye: SHIELD agent
Black Widow: see above
Scarlet Witch: Deputised Shield Agent
Cap: Decorated US soldier/SHIELD agent and living embodiment of the flag

And what word would you use,
Mr. Secretary.
How about "Dangerous?"
What would you call a group of
US-based, enhanced individuals,
who routinely ignores sovereign borders
and inflict their will
wherever they choose
and who, frankly,
seem unconcerned about
what they leave behind them.
New York.

We were the people that stopped a nuke going off and leaving behind a nuclear winter aftertaste but please go on.

Washington DC.

Hydra, which infiltrated all levels of govt

Sokovia

.

Blame Tony for that one

Lagos.

Aren't there like 100 witnesses who saw a suicide bomber try to YOLO the fuck off this mortal coil and saw Scarlet Witch try to contain the blast, there were a fair few lives saved that day. Meanwhile General Ross what was the shit you pulled in Harlem?

Okay.
That's enough.
For the past 4 years, you operated
with unlimited power and no supervision.
That's an arrangement the governments
of the world can no longer tolerate.
But I think we have a solution.
The Sokovia accords.

Oh and Tony is all gung ho about the Sokovia accords and so naturally recruits a 15 year old kid to have a big fat play fight with Super soldiers, mutants and people in super suits. I doubt the govt would be cool with a masked, unaccountable vigilante running around.

The fight stopped because Vision was aiming for the vulnerable black dude lower to the ground and instead hit the black dude who was higher up in the invulnerable supersuit. Warmachine barely survived and they just about missed him, if he had hit Falcon what do you think would have happened? A huge mess that's what. I could do a lot more.

 

[flintstryker]

The only Marvel movies I think aren't overrated to some extent are Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier, but they are generally solid so I can't hate the often exaggerated enthusiasm.

 

[Blader]

2 out of the 3 avengers weren't major Marvel characters.

Neither are most of the Avengers in Civil War.

 

[phanphare]

it did continue the winter soldier storyline though. that's one of the main reasons cap is so hesitant to sign away his rights as a superhero. and bucky. always bucky.

 

[Glass Rebel]

it could have been done better. there could have been a film having civil war the main focus of it all instead of something perpetuated by another villain with an even potential greater threat, which was shut down by the end of the film anyway

coulda woulda shoulda

At this point it's clear that you're judging the movie on the merits of what you expected based on the title and subtitle combo rather than what it actually is.

 

[Fancy Clown]

no, they're supposed to be solo. that's why it has captain america in the title, not avengers. that's the point of the avengers movie, to be an ensemble

All films have supporting casts, this one just happens to have one made up of characters we already know. The emotional arc of the movie and screen time is carried primarily by Captain America, and he drives most of the plot as well. Tony is the major supporting character but he's not the protagonist. The Avengers films are actual ensembles in that they have multiple protagonists, which isn't really the case here. Even Tony is just a major supporting character.

 

[Siegcram]

coulda woulda shoulda

At this point it's clear that you're judging the movie on the merits of what you expected based on the title and subtitle combo rather than what it actually is.

Yeah, seems obvious at this point that we're arguing personal preconceptions, which sounds like a rather fruitless endeavour.

 

[The Artisan]

Neither are most of the Avengers in Civil War.

what? i thought most of them were. and whoever aren't will become them.

coulda woulda shoulda

At this point it's clear that you're judging the movie on the merits of what you expected based on the title and subtitle combo rather than what it actually is.

i watched the film a couple of times, watching it does not make it any better. i wanted to love it, and i can't. you can't help how you feel.

All films have supporting casts, this one just happens to have one made up of characters we already know. The emotional arc of the movie and screen time is carried primarily by Captain America, and he drives most of the plot as well. Tony is the major supporting character but he's not the protagonist. The Avengers films are actual ensembles in that they have multiple protagonists, which isn't really the case here. Even Tony is just a major supporting character.

this wasn't just a supporting cast, it was an ensemble film as well.

The film is directed by Anthony and Joe Russo, with a screenplay by Christopher Markus & Stephen McFeely, and features an ensemble cast, including Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr., Scarlett Johansson, Sebastian Stan, Anthony Mackie, Don Cheadle, Jeremy Renner, Chadwick Boseman, Paul Bettany, Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Rudd, Emily VanCamp, Tom Holland, Frank Grillo, William Hurt, and Daniel Brühl.

 

[Fancy Clown]

it's clear that as a captain america film the main thing he's after is this thing with bucky, not fighting the sokovia accords.

The two plots are intertwined. It's because of his loyalty to Bucky that he is drawn into the Civil War, and why he stands against the accords. Bucky is part of the theme of "civil war" because he is a character who is forced to do things he doesn't want to do, which is what Captain America is afraid the accords will do. For Captain America's character, Bucky is the externalized representation of the theme of the movie, which is what the civil war is all about.

this wasn't just a supporting cast, it was an ensemble film as well.

Ensemble doesn't mean multiple protagonist though. Ensemble just means a big supporting cast of characters. Captain America is the protagonist whom the script revolves around. The most you could argue is that it's a joint movie with Stark, but I'd argue against that as well. He's the major supporting character though.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It's a good movie with a lot of plot holes that are masked a lot better than in Age of Ultron.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah, seems obvious at this point that we're arguing personal preconceptions, which sounds like a rather fruitless endeavour.

I don't think anyone read the OP.

There was a really old rumor that the civil war story was supposed to actually be an Avengers installment instead of a Captain America movie by name.

That film would've happened much later on in the MCU when the catalog was bigger, and the civil war would've been the actual war, the actual conflict superheroes were having

 

[The Artisan]

The two plots are intertwined. It's because of his loyalty to Bucky that he is drawn into the Civil War, and why he stands against the accords. Bucky is part of the theme of "civil war" because he is a character who is forced to do things he doesn't want to do, which is what Captain America is afraid the accords will do. For Captain America's character, Bucky is the externalized representation of the theme of the movie, which is what the civil war is all about.

Then it isn't a great adaptation of the civil war. The film could've focused entirely on bringing Bucky back and had Crossbones be a more important villain instead of a setup to the Accords

 

[jon bones]

The DCU persecution act will work a lot better once they release a film that isn't total garbage.

Looking at you, Aquaman.

 

[WillyFive]

I think the directors and action of the movie and Winter Soldier are overrated, but it was a pretty good Captain America movie; after all, part of his character is that he leads the Avengers, and it would be dumb to not have them there when it's part of his life.

 

[iPaul93]

It's a decent movie,but that's all.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Then it isn't a great adaptation of the civil war. The film could've focused entirely on bringing Bucky back and had Crossbones be a more important villain instead of a setup to the Accords

The civil war from the comics is dumb as hell, so I'm glad it didn't adapt that 1 to 1. I'm kinda unsure why you think that would lead to a better movie. Crossbones isn't nearly as interesting as Zemo, and Bucky and the accords were linked to each other and the theme of the movie in a meaningful way.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Movie was amazing

Gaf needs to automatically change titles that say am I the only one or anyone besides me like they do for PSA.

 

[The Artisan]

The civil war from the comics is dumb as hell, so I'm glad it didn't adapt that 1 to 1. I'm kinda unsure why you think that would lead to a better movie. Crossbones isn't nearly as interesting as Zemo, and Bucky and the accords were linked to each other and the theme of the movie in a meaningful way.

was it that dumb? sometimes i hear it was a fan favorite. either way, if they did a more proper adaptation of it i'm sure they would make sure it wouldn't take whatever bad people said about the comic.

as for crossbones, they could have made him more interesting but they didn't. they wanted him out quick

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

was it that dumb? sometimes i hear it was a fan favorite. either way, if they did a more proper adaptation of it i'm sure they would make sure it wouldn't take whatever bad people said about the comic.

No, the movie does a way better job at portraying the two sides of the dispute as relatively balanced and subjective. You could side with either really.

In the comics, Tony becomes a fascist zealot essentially.

 

[ugoo18]

Not sure about exploitative but certainly overrated. To each their own yes but it's not even the best Captain America movie. Winter Soldier will always stand head and shoulders above CW. It's for me at least not even in the top 3 movies that the MCU has put out with Winter Soldier, Dr Strange and Avengers 1 claiming those spots. Yet the way its spoken about by some you'd get the impression it was the second coming of the comic book movie genre. Heck i have a love hate relationship with Nolan's movies specifically because of similar sentiment towards Interstellar however his Batman trilogy especially the Dark Knight is of an entirely different league to something like Civil War.

Is Civil War the best CA film: Not even close, Winter Soldier takes that crown easily
Is Civil War the best MCU film: Also not even close, Winter Soldier takes that crown easily
Is Civil War the best comic movie this year: Far from it, Deadpool and Doctor Strange share those honours
Is Civil War the best comic movie in recent memory: The entire Nolan trilogy (Especially the Dark Knight), Winter Soldier again, Doctor Strange, The first Avengers, Deadpool and DOFP to name some all are far better movies imo.

CW also unlike some of the ones i mentioned previously gets worse on subsequent viewings. Overall i expected more from the Russo's after Winter Soldier raised the bar for the MCU and they failed to deliver with CW.

 

[The Artisan]

No, the movie does a way better job at portraying the two sides of the dispute as relatively balanced and subjective. You could side with either really.

the movie portrays the dispute as a distraction to cap. it wasn't even his main concern throughout the movie.

In the comics, Tony becomes a fascist zealot essentially.

that's what I mean, stuff like that - if they went with a full fledged civil war movie, could've been taken out

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

The titular civil war is represented by a lot more than just that one airport fight. The civil war is every inter avenger conflict that climaxes with Captain America beating the shit out of Iron Man. The whole point of the movie was the "civil war", it wasn't a distraction for Zemo but the end game.

Tony had that fight in the bag if weren't for bucky

 

[guek]

Overrated where? Certainly not on gaf.

The only part of the OP I kind of agree with is that it could have been titled an Avengers movie and been fine. It works as a cap movie within the context of the MCU but also as a general MCU movie with focus on cap.

 

[Lebron]

Phase 2: "Why don't any of the other Avengers show up in these movies?"

Phase 3: "Why are all these Avengers in this movie?!"

Basically that's all that needs to be said.


Movie was hype.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

the movie portrays the dispute as a distraction to cap. it wasn't even his main concern throughout the movie.

... it's directly intertwined. The huzzah with Bucky (as it might have been a huzzah with anything) is a framing device as to why the Accords "need" to be put into place.

You can't have the view that superhero intervention is wrong being presented and highlighted if superheroes don't... intervene with anything.

 

[Hero]

When Spidey hold Cap's hands with his webbing, there shouldn't be any chance in hell that Cap could show any type of resistance. The movie showed that Spidey is far stronger than Cap, because he held Bucky's iron arm like a toy. Like he did with the car. Also, it's not like Peter couldn't think as a tactical fighter. He thought a plan to beat Ant-Man and he beat Falcon and Bucky.

I didn't say he wasn't tactical, I said he was too green. Inexperienced relative to everyone else, especially Captain. He relied on his power set to carry him through the fights and while he did get the upper hand against Falcon and Bucky, Falcon got him with his drone.

 

[Nibiru]

It's a really good movie that a lot of people think is really good. I think it's accurately rated.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

There is an argument to be made here that the reveal, and consequent fight, was the most dramatic and exciting segment in any Marvel film up until now. Spiderman was fun to see, and Blank Panther made a great debut.

Everything else was trash.

 

[The Artisan]

... it's directly intertwined. The huzzah with Bucky (as it might have been a huzzah with anything) is a framing device as to why the Accords "need" to be put into place.

You can't have the view that superhero intervention is wrong being presented and highlighted if superheroes don't... intervene with anything.

a movie focusing solely on the civil war and not having two plotlines "directly intertwined" would've been a better adaptation of the civil war in my opinion

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't understand why Steve sending that letter leads people to think that they are suddenly BFFs again.

Because can't say "know steaks" otherwise, silly..

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I don't think anyone read the OP.

There was a really old rumor that the civil war story was supposed to actually be an Avengers installment instead of a Captain America movie by name.

That film would've happened much later on in the MCU when the catalog was bigger, and the civil war would've been the actual war, the actual conflict superheroes were having

This comment makes it sound like your problem is that it's not like this years old rumor. Are you saying it would have made more sense for Infinity WAR to happen before Civil WAR? If so, why?

was it that dumb? sometimes i hear it was a fan favorite.

lol no

 

[Glass Rebel]

a movie focusing solely on the civil war and not having two plotlines "directly intertwined" would've been a better adaptation of the civil war in my opinion

was it that dumb? sometimes i hear it was a fan favorite. either way, if they did a more proper adaptation of it i'm sure they would make sure it wouldn't take whatever bad people said about the comic.

as for crossbones, they could have made him more interesting but they didn't. they wanted him out quick

Have you even read it?

 

[SillyEskimo]

It was awesome. Another comic book brought to life on the big screen courtesy of Disney. An excellent continuation of Tony Stark's character arc and a great introduction to BP and reintroduction to Spiderman. The movie accomplishes so much in such a short amount if time and its all a joy to experience. I love how it furthered the overall MCU by adding layers to all the relationships in the series.

I think the only reason Vision missed his shot was because Scarlet Witch was in his arms.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

a movie focusing solely on the civil war and not having two plotlines "directly intertwined" would've been a better adaptation of the civil war in my opinion

For the Civil War to be meaningful there needs to be some instances of that being applied. Lots of movies have "A plot/B plot".

 

[Can Crusher]

"I don't think this works because it's not a solo Cap movie" is not a valid complaint. Your opinion about what the movie should be is irrelevant. What the movie does, and if it does it well or not is the only thing that is reasonable to argue in regards to its quality.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Civil War wouldn't even work without the Bucky storyline being intervowen but saying that it's about Bucky is a complete exaggeration.

Both Cap and Tony almost manage to agree on the Sokovia Accords (although on false pretenses) by the midpoint but fail because of personal factors clouding their judgement. Without the Winter Soldier conflict you'd have a 40min movie ending with Cap and Tony discussing shit over a beer and agreeing on some amended Sokovia Accords lite.

 

[Blader]

what? i thought most of them were. and whoever aren't will become them.

I seriously disagree that any of the other Avengers in CW outside of Iron Man and Spider-Man are bigger characters (in terms of movie recognition/popularity) than Black Widow. This is total semantics anyway, and I'm not really going to argue whatever your own definition of an Avenger-worthy major Marvel character is.

At the end of the day, this movie is called Captain America: Civil War because it is still largely Captain America's story and is predominantly driven by Cap's actions. If you removed Cap from this movie, you'd have no story. With the possible exception of Iron Man, that's not true for any other character here, and even then I'd argue that you could do a Sokovia Accords and/or Winter Solider follow-up story just fine without Tony's involvement. To say nothing of Spider-Man, Panther, Ant-Man, Vision, etc. who all have something to add to the film, but aren't completely integral to it. Cap and Bucky, and to a lesser extent Tony, are the only ones integral to this film. It doesn't work without them, hence, Captain America: Civil War and not Avengers: Civil War.

 

[Lebron]

a movie focusing solely on the civil war and not having two plotlines "directly intertwined" would've been a better adaptation of the civil war in my opinion

Maybe you should actually read Civil War and see why changing that garbage for the movie adaption was the best move they could have done.

 

[Astral Dog]

Well, it worked

 

[xxracerxx]

a movie focusing solely on the civil war and not having two plotlines "directly intertwined" would've been a better adaptation of the civil war in my opinion

You haven't read the comic run, I am not sure how you can say this.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

This thread is... pretty much what I expected it to be.

 

[Nester99]

Nope.