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[Terrell]

Fun story: Since my TV is still dead and its replacement isn't arriving until later this week, I dropped my Apple TV with my roommate in the basement of the house I live in. A day later and he's RAVING about it. And that's the previous gen model. It seems that, even in its more basic form, there's still value in the set-top box, despite the nay-sayers telling us it's dead on arrival.

An insignificant amount of people will buy any add-on for the Apple TV, let alone a blu-ray drive. Several years ago, Apple bet heavily that streaming and downloading was the future, which is why they removed all disc drives from their desktops and notebooks ("Blu-ray is a bag of hurt"). They aren't ceding any money. It's a done deal. It's over. I know it may be something you want, but it isn't something Apple wants, nor will make, nor does the vast audience of people who want Apple TV.

Again, the chance of Apple making a blu-ray add-on for Apple TV is the same percentage chance that Apple will make a blu-ray add-on for the iPad.

OK, what about the past? What about (for some) the hundreds of discs they own? People aren't in a big hurry to re-buy their content, nor learning how to take that content into the digital space.

I don't personally want it. since I'm already trying to convert my DVD collection to iTunes-friendly formats (with the anime and its multiple audio tracks and subtitles giving me significant trouble since I'd prefer them to be soft-coded onto the video) and am happy putting the effort in.

But the original iPhone release taught me there's value in a convergence device, especially if the things you converge work better together than the stand-alone options. Considering the proliferation of smartphones and the decline in the iPod business, I'm not the only one who thought so, at the end of the day.

I see the same opportunity here. Bringing the disc-based media into the Apple TV environment while offering a better user experience for the cost of a peripheral that no one is forced to buy except those who want it.

And speaking of which, for all the talk of "Apple would never do a disc peripheral!", I'd like to draw your attention to this thing that they still actively sell. They may be done with discs as an integrated must-have feature, but as an option? They still seem pretty game for it.

Sometimes leaving a little money on the table is the right thing to do. It's part of being focused. Companies that run around and desperately trying to get every single conceivable customer very often spin themselves into oblivion.

An add-on adds unnecessary complexity. Apple wants users to buy digital stuff that they get a cut of, not blurays from Best Buy. It will never ever, ever, happen.

Again, this thing that they still actively sell tells me that complexity isn't really a big deal for them at the end of the day.

Apple can want people to buy things digitally all they want, and future purchases likely would be for a person who owns an Apple TV, but if that customer owns a Blu-Ray or DVD already? That's money they'll likely never get from that customer in the first place, since they won't rebuy the content. And then you just have another device under the TV stealing time away from Apple TV that could be spent using Apple TV and encouraging more future purchases to be made through it.

The less a device is used, the less revenue it can potentially generate. So anything that has people using it more should be seen as a benefit, especially if it does it better than existing products.

When do we expect to be able to preorder/see a release?

I'm curious to know this as well.

 

[kaskade]

I think I'm going to get one of these. I tend to use my PS4 for video stuff but it gets kinda hot causing my room to get a little toasty sometimes. I think Siri is going to be a winner for it though. UI is super nice too.

 

[Blackhead]

Fun story: Since my TV is still dead and its replacement isn't arriving until later this week, I dropped my Apple TV with my roommate in the basement of the house I live in. A day later and he's RAVING about it. And that's the previous gen model. It seems that, even in its more basic form, there's still value in the set-top box, despite the nay-sayers telling us it's dead on arrival

*snip*

... Is Apple dropping the price of the TVs to 'free'?

 

[giga]

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046

The heatsink/power supply itself is the size of the old Apple TV. Gonna guess this will have thermal limits higher than any other Apple SoC.

The old heatsink was just a small metal plate.

 

[blu]

This post is full of misinformation. The A8 ran at 1.4GHz in the iPhone 6 and 6S.

Irrelevant. ATV does not have the Ah/TDP constraints of an iphone.

Only the trip-core 1.5GHz A8X was previously included in the iPad. A higher binned/upgraded A8 with 2GB of RAM running at 1.5GHz is in the new iPad Mini.

So A8 runs at 1.5GHz in 'only' two iPads - both environments much closer to an ATV in TDP. BTW, your source for the 'binned/upgraded' part?

We don't know the clock speed of the A8 running in the new AppleTV yet, only that it has 2GB of RAM, so it likely at least runs at the 1.5GHz of the new Mini.

I never claimed I knew what speeds A8 runs at in the ATV. Only that it's rated at 1.5GHz and that's what it's clocked at in more lax Ah/TDP environments, and also that it potentially could take an overclock, given its stable performance in a tablet enclosure.

So how is my post full of misinformation?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046

The heatsink/power supply itself is the size of the old Apple TV. Gonna guess this will have thermal limits higher than any other Apple SoC.

The old heatsink was just a small metal plate.

So I'm going to say at least 1.7GHz with a better GPU than the standard A8. Anyone else want to join in the speculation?

 

[giga]

So I'm going to say at least 1.7GHz with a better GPU than the standard A8. Anyone else want to join in the speculation?

Calling 2ghz if they managed to get this on 14nm finfet.
Same gpu (no architecture changes), but probably higher clocked too.

 

[blu]

Calling 2ghz if they managed to get this on 14nm finfet.
Same gpu (no architecture changes), but probably higher clocked too.

You don't use an expensive low-yields fab node for a non-premium-margins device. If apple were so much after top-tier performance in ATV, we'd be seeing an A8x/A9 in the ATV.

Surely apple will overclock the A8 to the max in the ATV, but that's about as much as we can expect.

 

[giga]

New psu is rated at 11 watts, while the old one was about 6. For comparison, the shield tv has a 40w (!) power supply and the old fire tv had a 16w one.

 

[badcrumble]

Yeah, I think this year's ATV is all about getting models in seats. It doesn't have the obvious avenues for improvement that portable devices have like thinness/battery life et cetera, but I still expect next year's revision to be a pretty good improvement in terms of the chip inside of it.

I'm surprised they ended up not letting it broadcast a WiFi network to your home, by the way (basically at the same level as an AirPort Express). I know they were apparently considering that for a while.

 

[LordOfChaos]

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046

The heatsink/power supply itself is the size of the old Apple TV. Gonna guess this will have thermal limits higher than any other Apple SoC.

The old heatsink was just a small metal plate.

Giant ass heatsink theory confirmed then. Can't wait to see clock speeds and performance.

The guesses about CPU clock aren't that interesting to me - the pipeline depth could limit upper clock speeds. The GPU part, however, is far more interesting, it's specced to be clocked much higher than Apple has them in mobile, so we could see a big improvement there. Would make sense for them to spend the extra TDP there, the types of games on it will probably be visually flashy but not particularly sophisticated to need much more CPU (since they are bound to that wand remote...Hope they relax that requirement).

 

[kaskade]

I wonder if that power and heatsink stuff is more for the gaming. I feel like just streaming the video wouldn't be too taxing.

 

[blu]

I wonder if that power and heatsink stuff is more for the gaming. I feel like just streaming the video wouldn't be too taxing.

Gaming and apps would be a fair guess.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Apples attention to internal details borders on crazy - there's no wires attaching the power supply to the mainboard. Rather the heatsink screws double as wires!

 

[giga]

One theory could be that the A8 isn't too drastically overclocked and that the large heatsink is to sustain a consistent level of workload far longer than typical iOS devices. Or in other words, no throttling. But then again, that doesn't explain the twice as hungry power supply.

 

[Pixels]

Remote is fun but I can't see how it will be good for games... Off to programming..

 

[LordOfChaos]

One theory could be that the A8 isn't too drastically overclocked and that the large heatsink is to sustain a consistent level of workload far longer than typical iOS devices. Or in other words, no throttling. But then again, that doesn't explain the twice as hungry power supply.

They do very good there already in an iPhone, the heatsink size would be way overkill just to reduce the throttling probably (a tiny thermal pad and heatsink would probably do to cancel the bit of throttling). I think it's definitely both. Higher clock speed, with enough thermal breathing room to keep it there through games.

 

[blu]

FWIW, my expectations of the clock are in the 1.6-1.7GHz range. The chip might be clockable above that just as well, with some active cooling. Actually, given ATV's non-hostile build towards modding, some people might even try that down the road.

 

[show me your skeleton]

so i'm liking the look of this generation apple tv but was wondering how it would fair compared to my WD TV. i have a mac and an iphone but i'm not massively invested in the itunes ecosystem for things like tv shows or music.
i'm guessing the major change will be the severe lack of file formats, right?

 

[Technosteve]

One theory could be that the A8 isn't too drastically overclocked and that the large heatsink is to sustain a consistent level of workload far longer than typical iOS devices. Or in other words, no throttling. But then again, that doesn't explain the twice as hungry power supply.

Maybe it has a physical hard drive ala xbox

 

[Terrell]

so i'm liking the look of this generation apple tv but was wondering how it would fair compared to my WD TV. i have a mac and an iphone but i'm not massively invested in the itunes ecosystem for things like tv shows or music.
i'm guessing the major change will be the severe lack of file formats, right?

Netflix support, Plex without routing through DLNA, a UI that's not shit, apps that you don't need to wait for a firmware update to get.

You missed those differences, as well.

 

[show me your skeleton]

Netflix support, Plex without routing through DLNA, a UI that's not shit, apps that you don't need to wait for a firmware update to get.

You missed those differences, as well.

haha yeah, i imagine the user experience is worlds apart from the WD TV!

 

[infiniteloop]

MAME running on Apple TV:

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/28/mame-emulator-new-apple-tv/

 

[badcrumble]

Basically praying for ATV jailbreaking to be as successful as iPhone jailbreaking because I wanna keep up on features while also getting to play hella emulated games.

 

[infiniteloop]

Basically praying for ATV jailbreaking to be as successful as iPhone jailbreaking because I wanna keep up on features while also getting to play hella emulated games.

If devs release the source code, couldn't you just load the emulators via Xcode and keep up with Apple's updates?

 

[Sir Abacus]

If devs release the source code, couldn't you just load the emulators via Xcode and keep up with Apple's updates?

This. Now that you can sideload via Xcode 7 without paying $99 this is entirely possible now.

 

[Raistlin]

I love how a focal point for the 6s / 6s Plus commercial I saw during football yesterday was to point out its 4K video recording.

bwahahahaahaha

 

[badcrumble]

If devs release the source code, couldn't you just load the emulators via Xcode and keep up with Apple's updates?

True. Gawd I can't wait.

 

[infiniteloop]

reminds me, i need to order a usb to usb c cable

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030319&p_id=13009&seq=1&format=2

 

[Hoo-doo]

I love how a focal point for the 6s / 6s Plus commercial I saw during football yesterday was to point out its 4K video recording.

bwahahahaahaha

I think you are in the wrong thread, champ.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I think you are in the wrong thread, champ.

Well, you can't show the 4K video at full res on the new Apple TV, so he is technically in the right place.

 

[giga]

roku 4 leaked. Looks mostly the same but with 4k support.

http://www.aftvnews.com/first-image-of-unreleased-roku-4/

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/27/roku-4-at-fcc/

 

[Raistlin]

I think you are in the wrong thread, champ.

Not at all. Plenty of people (including me) have commented on their being dismayed at the lack of 4K support on the new Apple TV.


The lack of it, while annoying to some, would at least make sense if the entire Apple ecosystem was currently bereft of it. That the new iPhones can record it and support HVEC, combined with the fact it's something they're actively marketing makes the decision here all the more confusing.

What device are we supposed to use to play it back on a large screen?

 

[Raistlin]

roku 4 leaked. Looks mostly the same but with 4k support.

http://www.aftvnews.com/first-image-of-unreleased-roku-4/

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/27/roku-4-at-fcc/

This is a confusing post. While 4k support is expected, it isn't confirmed ... and both links spend time detailing the obvious differences between the Roku 3.


* The device is notably wider

* Upgrade to 802.11ac WiFi

* Changes to quick launch buttons on remote

* Blue Tooth peripherals (assumed to support headphones and remotes / controllers)



While not detailed, one would expect a faster processor and possibly changed storage and RAM? Obviously those will need to be detailed.

 

[giga]

This is a confusing post. While 4k support is expected, it isn't confirmed ... and both links spend time detailing the obvious differences between the Roku 3.


* The device is notably wider

* Upgrade to 802.11ac WiFi

* Changes to quick launch buttons on remote

* Blue Tooth peripherals (assumed to support headphones and remotes / controllers)



While not detailed, one would expect a faster processor and possibly changed storage and RAM? Obviously those will need to be detailed.

The wireless additions were a given to me, but I kind of expected a new (better) remote. The dedicated buttons do nothing for me, especially since they removed Prime.

 

[badcrumble]

Apple TV upgrade paths are gonna be interesting if the remote stays the same from year to year. Basically the obvious way forward for it is Bluetooth 4.2, more storage, and 4K/UHD support... but that's about it unless they build in AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule functionality.

I want touchID on the remote so guests at my house can't see all of the cock pictures in my iCloud Photos collection.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Apple TV upgrade paths are gonna be interesting if the remote stays the same from year to year. Basically the obvious way forward for it is Bluetooth 4.2, more storage, and 4K/UHD support... but that's about it unless they build in AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule functionality.

I want touchID on the remote so guests at my house can't see all of the cock pictures in my iCloud Photos collection.

Didn't Jennifer Lawrence teach you anything?

 

[giga]

Here's some more roku 4 leaks: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/30/roku_4_specs_leak/

I see 4K but no AC wireless.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Here's some more roku 4 leaks: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/30/roku_4_specs_leak/

I see 4K but no AC wireless.

That seems crazy to not have AC when it's almost 2016.

 

[Terrell]

Not at all. Plenty of people (including me) have commented on their being dismayed at the lack of 4K support on the new Apple TV.


The lack of it, while annoying to some, would at least make sense if the entire Apple ecosystem was currently bereft of it. That the new iPhones can record it and support HVEC, combined with the fact it's something they're actively marketing makes the decision here all the more confusing.

What device are we supposed to use to play it back on a large screen?

Retina Display-equipped Apple computers, where you are going to be editing the videos anyways.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Retina Display-equipped Apple computers, where you are going to be editing the videos anyways.

Do that many people really take the time to edit them relative tip the people who just push it up to the TV to show other people? I can't think of anyone who had shown me an edited video compared to the number of people who just pushed it to their TV.

 

[Terrell]

Do that many people really take the time to edit them relative tip the people who just push it up to the TV to show other people? I can't think of anyone who had shown me an edited video compared to the number of people who just pushed it to their TV.

"Most people" don't push them to the TV to show other people; at best, they'd pass you their phone or upload the clip for viewing online and show them on the computer it's sent to first, if it even makes it there instead of uploaded right from the phone to the internet.

Remember, ATV has been a niche product up until now, so unless AirPlay works with non-Apple things now, you live in a very Apple-centric bubble, if the number of people who pushes video to the TV outweighs the other 80-90% of iPhone owners who can't.

 

[Marty Chinn]

"Most people" don't push them to the TV to show other people; at best, they'd pass you their phone or upload the clip for viewing online and show them on the computer it's sent to first, if it even makes it there instead of uploaded right from the phone to the internet.

Remember, ATV has been a niche product up until now, so unless AirPlay works with non-Apple things now, you live in a very Apple-centric bubble, if the number of people who pushes video to the TV outweighs the other 80-90% of iPhone owners who can't.

That's still over 25 million people with the ability to do it and that still doesn't mean most people who do show videos are editing them. I'd wager more people show then on TV rather than edit them on a Retina based Mac.

 

[Guess Who]

You're delusional if you think most people who are shooting videos on their iPhone "edit them on their Retina Mac". Most people shoot videos on their phone and then, at best, trim them right on their phone, and that's it. Then they show those videos to other people, probably directly on their phone, or sometimes through text message, and if they have an Apple TV, they are probably going to AirPlay to their TV to share a video with family long before they go over to their Mac and do it.

Not to mention exactly one Retina Mac has the capability to play 4K video at full res anyway, and I would wager the Retina 27" iMac isn't even in the top five best-selling Mac models.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

That heatsink pic is cooool!

 

[SonnyBoy]

I had the opportunity to experience ATV for the first time over the weekend, I came away thoroughly impressed. My household has been assimilated by Apple, thus the ATV would fit us best.

Granted we're only 2 days into the month but is there a projected release date?

 

[The Elite]

I had the opportunity to experience ATV for the first time over the weekend, I came away thoroughly impressed. My household has been assimilated by Apple, thus the ATV would fit us best.

Granted we're only 2 days into the month but is there a projected release date?

I think it's November.

I am not too sure though.

Edit: Ah. Late October.

 

[borghe]

There's a cool article on one of the Apple blogger sites suggesting that Apple is waiting for HDR to shake out before going 4K. It sort of makes sense.. I mean there is NOTHING out there pushing people to even care about 4K, let alone invest in it. TVs are sold because they aren't really much more expensive than HD, but actually selling 4K beyond that just doesn't exist. HDR is widely thought to be the answer to that, but a standard delivery for it hasn't been ratified yet.

It's sort of a stretch, but it sort of makes sense also.

Also the date since it's been announced has always been Late October. Really hoping it holds.

 

[infiniteloop]

I had the opportunity to experience ATV for the first time over the weekend, I came away thoroughly impressed. My household has been assimilated by Apple, thus the ATV would fit us best.

Granted we're only 2 days into the month but is there a projected release date?

If Apple are saying late October, will probably be the week of 26-30th.

 

[Raistlin]

There's a cool article on one of the Apple blogger sites suggesting that Apple is waiting for HDR to shake out before going 4K. It sort of makes sense.. I mean there is NOTHING out there pushing people to even care about 4K, let alone invest in it. TVs are sold because they aren't really much more expensive than HD, but actually selling 4K beyond that just doesn't exist. HDR is widely thought to be the answer to that, but a standard delivery for it hasn't been ratified yet.

It's sort of a stretch, but it sort of makes sense also.

Also the date since it's been announced has always been Late October. Really hoping it holds.

Not buying it in-so-far as being an actual hardware concern. HDR does already have a standard delivery. It's packed into a standardized metadata protocol in the HEVC codec, and is simply passed through HDMI. It's the display that has to know what to do with it, and the encoder side needs to place the data in there. New forms of HDR could be added at any point without breaking compatibility in terms of deliver and decode.

So for something like an Apple TV it's not a concern. All current HEVC decoders will properly pull out the metadata, and HDMI 2.0a will properly transmit it out.



I suspect there are two reasons why it isn't here yet:

1) Apple margins - they have a known amount they want to make on this device, and for this production year the HDMI Tx chips, etc aren't quite cheap enough.

2) Airplay - there has been zero information on an upgrade to support 4K via Airplay, which tells me it's not done. Apple generally tries to avoid customer confusion, so I suspect they don't want to advertise a 4K streaming box that doesn't support 4K Airplay from their phones. Much easier to wait until all the ducks are in a row and then release a 4K Apple TV that does not only 4K streaming but Airplay as well?



#2 Does bring up an interesting question. What happens if you try to Airplay something you shot in 4K from your phone to the Apple TV? Does it simply not work, or does it try to transcode it on the phone?