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[akira28]

just say what you want to say.

what are you getting at.

are you waiting for someone else to make the distinction you're trying to make? just say it.

your schtick is tiring. dancing around the subject, playing dumb to what you're actually saying. just let it out. the world is waiting to hear what has already been inferred.

Ok so you're annoyed and tired of my schtick.(?) And apparently I'm dancing. I thought I was being clear as day. I would feel taken advantage of if I was put into a situation that I probably would have avoided if I knew all of the information. And I think that withholding of information, while it may protect the feelings of someone, keeps someone else, who is supposed to be a willing partner, in the dark, which is wrong. And if the argument is, that it's just sex, and it wouldn't have mattered, then the argument is wrong.

And still even underneath all of that, I never said anything about me being a victim, and I said I wanted both parties to be safe and unhurt and emotionally intact. And that the best way for that is honesty.

But what am I "playing dumb to"? And what are you inferring other than I'm somehow some transphobic glad-hander here to deceive you because I say I can like a transgender person but not want to have sex with them?

 

[TheChits]

Personally I'd like to know up front, but they aren't obligated to.

 

[Devolution]

Honestly there is a solid difference between

"it's a personal issue of mine" vs "they're just not real women"

If some people in this thread cannot recognize the difference, then maybe those people need to open their minds a bit when it comes to gender. And I will put money on the table that their definition of what a real woman is, is more exclusionary than they're even willing to recognize.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Honestly, having gone through all of this thread earlier today for modding purposes, I found it pretty hard to judge what is and isn't allowed. You want to get rid of the bigots, but on the other hand, you don't want to get the ones who legitimately just don't know/understand and say dumb shit because of that.

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it is either you're a bigot or too dumb to understand? In context of the original post and title?

 

[Hop]

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it is either you're a bigot or too dumb to understand? In context of the original post and title?

I think he's saying, in terms of comments that might be bannable, you have to assess if it's comments out of bigotry (and thus more ban-worthy) versus comments out of innocent ignorance (which shouldn't get somebody banned), which is a really hard distinction to make on the whole.

 

[Gaborn]

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it is either you're a bigot or too dumb to understand? In context of the original post and title?

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that if someone has a negative reaction to a transgender person, is it out of ignorance or bigotry?

For example, if someone said "I don't really like the idea of a trans person coming on to me, it's really gross to think of them having man hands"

That would be difficult to parse as bigoted or ignorant. There is a way to say you're not interested vs going over the top and coming off as a bigoted jerk.

 

[Devolution]

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it is either you're a bigot or too dumb to understand? In context of the original post and title?

"i don't know If I could handle it" vs "omg they're fucking disgusting"

 

[Yaboosh]

How functional/realistic are the penis to vagina conversions?

 

[Gaborn]

How functional/realistic are the penis to vagina conversions?

Everything I've heard is that it would be very realistic and functional to other people. It's going the other way, FTM that is much more troublesome. I think I remember reading that the choice there is basically between more real or more functional. But for trans women? It's MUCH easier to have something realistic.

 

[LCGeek]

How functional/realistic are the penis to vagina conversions?

It's not a true conversion as in you do not end up with a womb or things related to it. You do however have a convincing look if it's done right and you do have to pee like someone who has a vagina. A stent is required for sometime so that the hole doesn't close up.

Does this help you out?

I'm tg btw.

My thoughts the main subject have been said. From my personal experience I don't need to confront this issue because whom I'm around it's clear who we are. If I was around vanilla types than I would have to think about this but to be honest unless I was totally comitting to someone I'm content to let them find out the hardway. Rather it's not deception if you aren't going to ask. We aren't in a society where gender roles are so obvious so I don't see why or how some can clearly be blind to the possibility what they are attracted to just might be trans.

 

[Hellion]

Honesty in a relationship? Well I never!

First post gets it.

/thread

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

yes

 

[Garbaga]

How functional/realistic are the penis to vagina conversions?

I *think* this is my hold-back regarding trans-women.

I, along with many other people, are turned-off by surgical enhancements. Boob jobs, lip injections, botox, etc.

Transforming a male body to a female body via surgery and therapy seems even extremer than those, so is it really odd that I'm turned off by it?

 

[mollipen]

First post gets it.

/thread

But that wasn't the question. It wasn't about honesty in a relationship, it was about honestly going into a potential relationship. So, no, "/thread" doesn't work here.

 

[LCGeek]

I *think* this is my hold-back regarding trans-women.

I, along with many other people, are turned-off by surgical enhancements. Boob jobs, lip injections, botox, etc.

Transforming a male body to a female body via surgery and therapy seems even extremer than those, so is it really odd that I'm turned off by it?

It's not enhancement. Doctors do not add anything extra they invert and reconfigure.

While I understand against being against plastic culture this not that or should be considered that.

 

[lexi]

Neo-vaginas (from the right surgeon) are good enough that most people would never know the difference.

I have a post-op friend who is currently dating a woman, they had been together for months, had sexytimes many times before my friend opened up about her transness.

Her GF had no idea, but more importantly, did not feel deceived or lied to, they're still together and have a great relationship.

 

[kinggroin]

It's not a true conversion as in you do not end up with a womb or things related to it. You do however have a convincing look if it's done right and you do have to pee like someone who has a vagina. A stent is required for sometime so that the hole doesn't close up.

Does this help you out?

I'm tg btw.

My thoughts the main subject have been said. From my personal experience I don't need to confront this issue because whom I'm around it's clear who we are. If I was around vanilla types than I would have to think about this but to be honest unless I was totally comitting to someone I'm content to let them find out the hardway. Rather it's not deception if you aren't going to ask. We aren't in a society where gender roles are so obvious so I don't see why or how some can clearly be blind to the possibility what they are attracted to just might be trans.

I think you see the world in a much more idealistic light than most here anyway (myself included). Yeah, the line is blurring some, but I think we are still a ways off from being at the level you're describing, that a man would always have to question if the woman he was hitting on is trans or not. Further, I think having that mindset in today's world, could even be dangerous emotionally and physically.

 

[Cipherr]

Oh, it’s not overtly offensive, that makes it okay.


Here’s a collection of posts that I confidently feel are transphobic.








“Transgendered people scare me, keep me away from them”



“Transwomen people are just men in dresses”



“Transwomen are just deceiving men”



Self explanatory.





“Transwomen are men”



“Transwomen aren’t really women”



“Transpeople scare me”



“Transwomen aren’t real women”



Self explanatory.



Self explanatory.



“Transwomen aren’t real women”



“Transwomen aren’t real women”



“Transwomen are men”



“Transwomen aren’t real women”


As you can tell, there is one opinion that seems to be pretty common: transsexual people aren’t really what they say they are. Hey, that’s the one you think is okay, because it’s not overtly offensive! But that is not just an insult, it is wholesale refusal of transsexual people. The fact that the opinion isn’t “overtly offensive” is why it’s so dangerous! Ignorant people (and I use ignorant in the nicest way (honestly)) come into this thread, and aren’t sure what to think. They read some posts and think that all they have to do to be respectful to transsexuals is use the right pronouns. They don’t have to think that the transsexual in question is a real woman or man. They can even be vocal about that, but as long as they’re using the right pronouns, they’re being respectful. Right?


WRONG. You are not being respectful. You are just patronizing transsexuals.

I just think this post should be quoted and immortalized so that it cannot be edited later.

One of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted on this board in the roughly 6 or so years Ive been around. You literally took any post you could find where someone stated that they would personally like to know if a person was transgendered before dating them or becoming intimate with them, and twisted it into those people 'hating' transgendered people.

Fucking astonishing. The leaps in logic you had to make in some of those quotes are breathtaking, especially the one where the guy said "I don't think it would be a good idea to found a relationship on a secret or dishonesty" and you took that to mean he was a bigoted transsexual hater.

Incredible incredible incredible job mate, you have it all figured out. Every single person who doesn't say "It doesn't matter to me" is a transphobic douchebag right? Thanks for your input.

I'm kinda saddened this thread has been ban-free so far.

Fixed.

 

[lexi]

I just think this post should be quoted and immortalized so that it cannot be edited later.

One of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted on this board in the roughly 6 or so years Ive been around. You literally took any post you could find where someone stated that they would personally like to know if a person was transgendered before dating them or becoming intimate with them, and twisted it into those people 'hating' transgendered people.

Fucking astonishing. The leaps in logic you had to make in some of those quotes are breathtaking, especially the one where the guy said "I don't think it would be a good idea to found a relationship on a secret or dishonesty" and you took that to mean he was a bigoted transsexual hater.

Incredible incredible incredible job mate, you have it all figured out. Every single person who doesn't say "It doesn't matter to me" is a transphobic douchebag right? Thanks for your input.

Fixed.

Excuse me?

Why would it be edited? It's the magnum opus of this thread, successfully pointing out and explaining many ignorant / hateful posts.

 

[Cipherr]

Excuse me?

Why would it be edited? It's the magnum opus of this thread, successfully pointing out and explaining many ignorant / hateful posts.

Don't "excuse me". Look at every one of those examples. Some of those responses are perfectly fine and are NOT transphobia at all. Some guy answering the question of:

"Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates"

with:

"Yes, thats probably a first date topic"

Is NOT fucking transphobia. Period. People need to look up that suffix and realize what the hell it actually means. Some woman saying that she wouldnt want to date a male does not translate to androphobia. That is not how it works.

 

[LCGeek]

I think you see the world in a much more idealistic light than most here anyway (myself included). Yeah, the line is blurring some, but I think we are still a ways off from being at the level you're describing, that a man would always have to question if the woman he was hitting on is trans or not. Further, I think having that mindset in today's world, could even be dangerous emotionally and physically.

I don't have many ideals while I have ideas I do not hope, rely, or count on most of mankind growing up to a certain level to make them possible or practical. If you want to label me based on that thought go ahead but that's not idealism.

I don't think the world is at all ways off from that. There is difference between not choosing to do so and not having to do so. There are many known examples of tg people tripping up those with or without fame. Not all tgs or even most are in the era of being hairy linebackers in dresses despite how we framed in the media.

 

[Emitan]

Don't "excuse me". Look at every one of those example. Some of those responses are perfectly fine and are NOT transphobia at all. Some guy answering the question of:

"Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates"

with:

"Yes, thats probably a first date topic"

Is NOT fucking transphobia. Period.

Why should someone tell something deeply personal and difficult on the first date?

 

[lexi]

Why should someone tell something deeply personal and difficult on the first date?

Because who gives a fuck about trannies? They're expected to disclose their entire history within the first minutes of talking to anybody, and FUCK the consequences!

 

[Cipherr]

Why should someone tell something deeply personal and difficult on the first date?

That's completely besides the point of whether or not having that particular preference or point of view is "transphobia". You can disagree with him that it should be discussed on the first date all you want, he could even be wrong about it, but it doesn't make him transphobic.

Because who gives a fuck about trannies? They're expected to disclose their entire history within the first minutes of talking to anybody, and FUCK the consequences!

Don't do that, address the topic we are discussing, I dont care about your strawmen. Either defend your position that every single one of those positions constitutes transphobia or walk away. Here's a hint, walk away.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

yeah, that would be sorta weird on the first date. if there's enough attraction for a first date and subsequent dates to occur then you can deal with this later. if there's mental and physical attraction (and everything works as it normally would on a women) then it's only an issue in regards to reproduction and religious beliefs (or are there ways around this now?).

 

[Amir0x]

If the person is going in assuming one thing, then yes it's important to disclose it immediately if you even remotely want to have a long term relationship. If you drop it into the relationship after it gets too deep, you might not only isolate that individual, they might be hurt, even angry at you. It would feel like a deception, even if it was necessarily withheld due to nerves or something.

It's a very difficult subject, but if you're trying to get anything serious, disclose earlier, not later. Consenting adults is fine; one of the parties is really not consenting if you're misleading a person about the very essence of who you are. Before even a first kiss, do it.

 

[Devolution]

If transwomen/men are expected to disclose that info on the very first date, then what else is expected? Gotta admit if the carpet match the drapes? Gotta disclose dick size? Piercings? STDs?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Before they sleep with you (supposing that you both are in your sober minds) then yes, you should expect them to tell you. That's the culture of today, almost everyone will want to know.

First date? Ugh I dunno, probably not the easiest thing to do i'd imagine for a significant amount....unless they try to sleep with you.

 

[videogames]

actually, nah, cipherr is on a role

 

[squidyj]

If transwomen/men are expected to disclose that info on the very first date, then what else is expected? Gotta admit if the carpet match the drapes? Gotta disclose dick size? Piercings? STDs?

Don't bother with dick size, I'm just going to lie anyways.

 

[Gaborn]

That's completely besides the point of whether or not having that particular preference or point of view is "transphobia". You can disagree with him that it should be discussed on the first date all you want, he could even be wrong about it, but it doesn't make him transphobic.



Don't do that, address the topic we are discussing, I dont care about your strawmen. Either defend your position that every single one of those positions constitutes transphobia or walk away. Here's a hint, walk away.

Why would anyone want a relationship based off of a lie? The attempt at deception alone is enough to send every red flag waving.

First you mentioned this one. It was categorized by fireside as:

“Transwomen are just deceiving men”

Now, you can disagree with Fireside's characterization but it's hardly unfair. People don't tell each other everything about themselves right off the bat and it's not "deception" to live as the woman you are. It's being true to themselves.

Next this one:

First date topic. Hell, it should be brought up the moment either person asks the other out on a date.

categorized as:

“Transgendered people scare me, keep me away from them”

Honestly, that's how I read it too. The point of a "first date topic" is because it would likely preclude the possibility of a second date, and that in the absence of that there might WELL be a second date which of course would be a bad thing in their view.

I think you're the one trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

everyone enters relationships with huge assumptions (positive ones) about the other person. if each person gave their life's history up front, no one would be in relationships lol.

if a person is mentally and physically a women in all senses of the word, I don't think she needs to disclose anything in the first couple of dates. however, I don't think this is something you should or could keep hidden forever, so it needs to be disclosed eventually (maybe in the period where the relationship is moving beyond 'seeing each other' to 'dating'.

 

[Emitan]

If the person is going in assuming one thing, then yes it's important to disclose it immediately if you even remotely want to have a long term relationship. If you drop it into the relationship after it gets too deep, you might not only isolate that individual, they might be hurt, even angry at you. It would feel like a deception, even if it was necessarily withheld due to nerves or something.

It's a very difficult subject, but if you're trying to get anything serious, disclose earlier, not later. Consenting adults is fine; one of the parties is really not consenting if you're misleading a person about the very essence of who you are. Before even a first kiss, do it.

How is it misleading? Transwomen are women. If he thought he was with a woman and then found out... he's with a woman, it's not deceptive.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

How is it misleading? Transwomen are women. If he thought he was with a woman and then found out... he's with a woman, it's not deceptive.

the man may have expectations about the woman's ability to bear his children

that said, is an infertile women expected to disclose that she is barren (antiquiated word but I enjoy it) on the first date? no. but it's a topic that should come up eventually - before the relationship becomes extremely serious but after the intial 'seeing each other' phase.

 

[Gaborn]

If the person is going in assuming one thing, then yes it's important to disclose it immediately if you even remotely want to have a long term relationship. If you drop it into the relationship after it gets too deep, you might not only isolate that individual, they might be hurt, even angry at you. It would feel like a deception, even if it was necessarily withheld due to nerves or something.

It's a very difficult subject, but if you're trying to get anything serious, disclose earlier, not later. Consenting adults is fine; one of the parties is really not consenting if you're misleading a person about the very essence of who you are. Before even a first kiss, do it.

How are you defining "essence" here?

 

[Cipherr]

Honestly, that's how I read it too. The point of a "first date topic" is because it would likely preclude the possibility of a second date, and that in the absence of that there might WELL be a second date which of course would be a bad thing in their view.

I think you're the one trying to defend the indefensible.

No I think your trying to hard, as evidenced by the "Thats how I read it" qualifier. Just putting that out there as a disclaimer right before you jump to conclusions and Im just going to hammer hammer hammer away at you everytime you try and lay one of these massive leaps of logic on me to try and defend this nonsense. The bolded is absolutely ridiculous. Yes they would not want a second date, because he/she has a preference of not dating a transgendered individual. And a preference is not a guarantee of a phobia.

Are you trying to say that he has no right to such a preference? I certainly hope not considering childbirth and other variables that weigh into this. Honestly Gaborn, the only thing you could suggest is that it shouldnt matter to him either way. But YOU dont get to decide that do you? No.

So again, that is a massive failure to display transphobia. All it does it throw shots at someone who has a preference you disagree with. Again, show me concrete proof that all of those examples fall well within a reasonable range of Transphobia, and not just an opinion you don't like.

 

[LCGeek]

the man may have expectations about the woman's ability to bear his children

that said, is an infertile women expected to disclose that she is barren (antiquiated word but I enjoy it) on the first date? no. but it's a topic that should come up eventually - before the relationship becomes extremely serious but after the intial 'seeing each other' phase.

That's funny considering how both sides have pushed culture to thinking sex was just about sex these days. Fine some men want to have children with women don't act like in the US that most men are about raising family when stats show otherwise.

 

[Amir0x]

How is it misleading? Transwomen are women. If he thought he was with a woman and then found out... he's with a woman, it's not deceptive.

The topic is 'transgender', which has far more wide ranging implications than your simplistic characterization. There are different categories of Transsexual/Transgendered individuals.

I personally would not want to be intimate in any way with someone who was once a man, but had surgical gender reassignment because that individual 'identified' more with the opposite sex. That's just me. It's an extremely complex issue, sure, but this is a little more hefty than discussing any ol' topic. This is a subject that demands both parties make a very informed decision, as complex and unique as this is.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Not in one night stands or anything but if it's a relationship?

I have to say I would prefer that it at least was...common practice.

 

[Gaborn]

No I think your trying to hard, as evidenced by the "Thats how I read it" qualifier. Just putting that out there as a disclaimer right before you jump to conclusions and Im just going to hammer hammer hammer away at you everytime you try and lay one of these massive leaps of logic on me to try and defend this nonsense. The bolded is absolutely ridiculous. Yes they would not want a second date, because he/she has a preference of not dating a transgendered individual.

Does a half black woman have an obligation to disclose her parent is half black on the first date just because she might have met a racist?

Are you trying to say that he has no right to such a preference? I certainly hope not. Honestly Gaborn, the only thing you could suggest is that it shouldnt matter to him either way. But YOU dont get to decide that do you? No.

No one is deciding their preference, the issue is someone's right to know personal information. Should a woman that had an abortion be required to disclose that on the off chance her date is extremely pro-life?

So again, that is a massive failure to display transphobia. All it does it throw shots at someone who has a preference you disagree with. Again, show me concrete proof that all of those examples fall well within a reasonable range of Transphobia, and not just an opinion you don't like.

I think you're over-emphasizing preference. I think it says a lot when the "preference" is after the fact. That is, no one is saying you have to like or approach a woman you think is trans and ask her out. But having asked a woman out she is not obligated to disclose everything about her past and whatever "preference" you might have obviously did not prevent you from approaching THEM. THAT is the crux of the issue.

Although, I think it would be interesting if you went up to every woman you wanted to date and asked them if they had a penis. See how many favorable responses you get.

 

[Slayven]

No I think your trying to hard, as evidenced by the "Thats how I read it" qualifier. Just putting that out there as a disclaimer right before you jump to conclusions and Im just going to hammer hammer hammer away at you everytime you try and lay one of these massive leaps of logic on me to try and defend this nonsense. The bolded is absolutely ridiculous. Yes they would not want a second date, because he/she has a preference of not dating a transgendered individual. And a preference is not a guarantee of a phobia.

Are you trying to say that he has no right to such a preference? I certainly hope not considering childbirth and other variables that weigh into this. Honestly Gaborn, the only thing you could suggest is that it shouldnt matter to him either way. But YOU dont get to decide that do you? No.

So again, that is a massive failure to display transphobia. All it does it throw shots at someone who has a preference you disagree with. Again, show me concrete proof that all of those examples fall well within a reasonable range of Transphobia, and not just an opinion you don't like.

Thank you for perfectly articulating my thoughts on this thread.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Can't really say that I think anyone is obligated to tell anyone anything. Whether it's fair play in a relationship is another matter entirely, and should probably be based on those social dynamics and people, can't really wrap a formula around it.

But I can say this, I actually dated someone who eventually went transgender years later back in early high school. And if you were intimate with someone (even long ago) and then you see them as a hairy dude years later, with a deep voice and whatnot...it's weird. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[LCGeek]

Although, I think it would be interesting if you went up to every woman you wanted to date and asked them if they had a penis. See how many favorable responses you get.

Damn way to nail a point some guys in here aren't getting or don't feel they need to get. Regardless of preference how you come at someone you're attracted to and want to spend time with speaks volume if you approach in that manner thinking there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Cipherr]

Does a half black woman have an obligation to disclose her parent is half black on the first date just because she might have met a racist?

In the context of deciding whether or not the people quoted in my original post are all Transphobic, this question means absolutely NOTHING.

No one is deciding their preference, the issue is someone's right to know personal information. Should a woman that had an abortion be required to disclose that on the off chance her date is extremely pro-life?

That a very nice issue, worthy of discussion, and a great question, but again absolutely irrelevant in terms of whether or not these people that have been labeled transphobic are actually transphobic.

I think you're over-emphasizing preference. I think it says a lot when the "preference" is after the fact. That is, no one is saying you have to like or approach a woman you think is trans and ask her out. But having asked a woman out she is not obligated to disclose everything about her past and whatever "preference" you might have obviously did not prevent you from approaching THEM. THAT is the crux of the issue..

Thats interesting, I thought the crux of the issue I presented in my very first post of this thread was that a lot of people were labeled transphobic by an individual unfairly. And Im again seeing you veer off of that into completely different topics, but none of this means anything and does nothing to address my point, which makes me wonder why you even bothered to come running to defend those allegations if you clearly dont want to, or can't.

Although, I think it would be interesting if you went up to every woman you wanted to date and asked them if they had a penis. See how many favorable responses you get.

This again, has nothing to do with the point I made. In fact, I never made my own personal feelings on the topic known (I saw the sidetracking strawmen coming a mile away, your out of luck on this one). Your digging, and there's nothing buried there. I would give you a link back to my original post, but GAF has that built in now, and after all, you quoted me, so Im not exactly feeling like I should need to help you follow the conversation.

 

[Gaborn]

In the context of deciding whether or not the people quoted in my original post are all Transphobic, this question means absolutely NOTHING.




That a very nice issue, worthy of discussion, and a great question, but again absolutely irrelevant in terms of whether or not these people that have been labeled transphobic are actually transphobic.



Thats interesting, I thought the crux of the issue I presented in my very first post of this thread was that a lot of people were labeled transphobic by an individual unfairly. And Im again seeing you veer off of that into completely different topics, but none of this means anything and does nothing to address my point, which makes me wonder why you even bothered to come running to defend those allegations if you clearly dont want to, or can't.


This again, has nothing to do with the point I made. In fact, I never made my own personal feelings on the topic known (I saw the sidetracking strawmen coming a mile away, your out of luck on this one). Your digging, and there's nothing buried there. I would give you a link back to my original post, but GAF has that built in now, and after all, you quoted me, so Im not exactly feeling like I should need to help you follow the conversation.

You know, it's hard to discuss an issue with someone when they're spending all their time ducking and dodging the issues their position naturally brings up.

Your repetitive responses make me wonder how credible you honestly think you're being. This IS about these issues, you can't just say it's about one scenario and nothing else because the real world doesn't work like that. Either someone has a right to keep some information private or they do not.

 

[FoneBone]

Don't "excuse me". Look at every one of those examples. Some of those responses are perfectly fine and are NOT transphobia at all. Some guy answering the question of:

"Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates"

with:

"Yes, thats probably a first date topic"

Is NOT fucking transphobia. Period

Why is it a first-date necessity when so much other personal information wouldn't be?

 

[kinggroin]

So let me get this straight.

She does NOT disclose that information to someone because, well, that's an admittance so to speak of not being a woman in every sense of the word.

If the information ISN'T disclosed and I discover while getting down and dirty, and have an adverse reaction that may or may not lead to a breakup.... I'm transphobic?

So in essence, its wrong to NOT want to be with someone based on their previous identity? Serious question.

And if I AM transphobic, what do I do to fix that?

 

[Cipherr]

Why is it a first-date necessity when so much other personal information wouldn't be?

How does his opinion/preference that it is a first date neccessity make him transphobic?

You know, it's hard to discuss an issue with someone when they're spending all their time ducking and dodging the issues their position naturally brings up.

Your repetitive responses make me wonder how credible you honestly think you're being. This IS about these issues, you can't just say it's about one scenario and nothing else because the real world doesn't work like that. Either someone has a right to keep some information private or they do not.

Because the issue I presented is Transphobia. The topics that phobias bring up are things like Anxiety and Impairment, you arent bringing those up, you are offshooting it into something altogether. You would have a point if I was questioning whether or not their points of view were reasonable or not, or whether or not they were over reacting, or whether or not they were being unfair, or whether or not their expectations were ridiculous, but thats not what I said.

I said they were unfairly called transphobic, and many of them were. What you call ducking and dodging, I call staying focused on a point and not letting nonsense shroud the actual issue.

Is every person he accused of being Transphobic actually Transphobic Gaborn? Can he reasonably make that assumption fairly based off the quotes he included in his post?

This is a very straightforward issue really, a yes or no question even. All the wringing about is because I get the feeling you don't like the answer to that question, but thats not really my problem. Personally I think the discussion would be aided if people stopped throwing that word around like he did against everyone who has an opposing opinion on the matter.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I think this discussion is getting a bit too far sighted. As human beings, our natural urge to approach a relationship with a man or woman is inexorably to eventually have sex, it's a passive understanding of the species. With that in hindsight, I do think it's rational to assume that your partner be forthcoming about things that could be unsatisfying/emotionally uncomfortable sexually as soon as the time is appropriate. I don't think that's a irrational or unfair position. I don't think it's appropriate to not say anything until it's obvious or heard through the grapevine. But that's just me.

 

[lexi]

I said they were unfairly called transphobic, and many of them were.

Of all that was quoted, there may have been 1 or 2 that were said out of ignorance more than anything else, but they're still transphobic, and there's nothing wrong in calling that out, if only to promote education around the topic.

What makes you the judge on transphobia btw?