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Battlefield 3 | Console Community Thread | Pleasant Entertainment
- Thread starter Dreamgazer
- Start date
You might have a point. The difference is that it takes 1 hit to kill with an RPG, and 2 to 3 with the frags. The USAS is really a slingshot.
Also, you must have not played BC2.
Boss Man
Member
A direct hit with an RPG that moves slowly and takes forever to reload is a lot more difficult to pull off than 2-3 hits in the general direction of someone while the frags are flying out of your gun like normal bullets. If we're at a point where you're saying that it isn't overpowered because running around with the USAS/frags is the same thing as running around with an RPG then I guess we're all just going to have to agree to disagree with you.
edit: Even in the theoretical situation where you're just sitting in one spot, the USAS/frags combo is a lot easier, faster, etc.
An RPG doesn't move slowly. It's slower than a bullet sure, but good luck trying to outrun one.
Reload time is an issue, but it's not like the USAS has an infinite clip. From personal experience I always reload after taking 2, 3 guys at max. And I have been taken down countless times while reloading.
Frags don't fly out of your gun like regular bullets. They are much closer to sniper bullets. You can clearly see the arc they do, and have do adjust accordingly when shooting at distance. Accuracy is still required.
If you're firing at the general direction of someone with frags you're mostly going to get yourself killed. If that someone is right next to a wall the splash damage can take then down, if by general direction you mean close. But then again this is just like RPGs, which also have splash damage.
In the context of infantry as you were saying my comparison was made in regards to Seks claims that you can just camp near an m-com and spam frags all day. You can do the same thing with rockets. Read his post.
Again, have you played BC2?
Edit Just saw your post edit. Read my post again. I was making a comparison in regard to Seks claim. Geez, it's not hard to realize that.
Boss Man
Member
I have not played BC2.
So they both have high damage ratings. That does not make them equivalent.
Rate of fire, the speed of the actual rounds, reload time...RPG != USAS/frags.
I mean, the patch notes specifically state that the USAS/frags are broken. It's not intended to shoot them as quickly as it shoots bullets. How can you not think that this is overpowered/unfair? It's a bug and the results are ridiculous, but you seem to think that it has a legitimate place in the game because it's your most used weapon so it doesn't bother you. The thing is blatantly overpowered and it's just silly to sit here and argue about it.
I can only assume that you're trying to defend yourself for using it, which you shouldn't be. It's in the game and it works, so you've decided to make the most of it. Whatever. The argument that, "Other people use it, so I do too." is a sound one. There's nothing wrong with fighting fire with fire. But if you've convinced yourself that your proficiency with the weapon is your own doing and not the result of it being broken, you aren't going to convince anyone else. I don't care if you're the best FPS player to ever grace a Playstation controller, you can't claim skill with a USAS kill. If you're really just as good with every weapon, then great. I guess you're just trolling people with the USAS when you could have killed them with a less irritating method. It doesn't matter though; even if you're somehow worse with the USAS/frags, the gun itself is still incredibly overpowered and it claims many kills that people otherwise would not have gotten. It needs to be nerfed, and people have a right to be complaining.
They are not equivalent, are you reading anything I write or are you just sprouting non sense just to contradict me?
Seks said the USAS is broken on other maps besides Metro and Bazaar because anyone can camp near an m-com and spam then. I was just pointing that you can do the exact same thing with rockets and pretty much anything else. Never I said that running around with frags and rockets are the same thing, that's your assumption.
Yeah, Dice said that the rate of fire of USAS/Frags is a bug, they also said that everyone experiencing lag on the PS3 is a crackhead. The USAS is an automatic shotgun, it's supposed to fire faster. How much faster? I don't know. It's not my job to balance the game. Goind by the way you complain about it they should set USAS fire rate the same as the 870, a pump action shotgun. If it's indeed come to that, better exclude the weapon from the game.
I do think they have to readjust the USAS/frags, I've said this before I even began this argument with you. I can try to find my post to exemplify it, but I doubt you're going to read it.
I just find ridiculous all the claims that the USAS single handedly brakes the game and every worthless random player instantly turns awesome just by using it. USAS wouldn't fuck Metro if it wasn't so badly designed for rush anyway.
Also while the USAS is my most used weapon overall, I spend way more time playing the game with a variety of other guns than a single one. What is your most used weapon in the game? Do you whore it as much as I do the USAS?
And it really doesn't bother me, I'm not one to bitch every time I get killed by something. I just try to adapt myself to any situation I might face. I think I'm kinda successful in that regard as I consistently outperform most USAS players gunning for me, wether I'm using the same USAS or any other weapon. By the way, there's a lot of better players here on GAF that perform the same way, I'm not even that good.
But yeah, I'm done with this, at least we agree on that! Also I don't believe I need to defend myself for anything, I'm not a cheater, I play the game by the game's rule.
With all the USAS discussion, I thought you guys would enjoy this.
Just pray they never bring the AA-12 into the game.
Just pray they never bring the AA-12 into the game.
Boss Man
Member
Right, but they aren't equivalent. The USAS is a lot more powerful. You can camp near an m-com and spam anything, but the USAS allows you to do it in a way that's a whole lot different from (and easier than) an RPG. Hell, I'm pretty positive that you can empty all of your frag rounds before you could get a second round loaded into an RPG.
Of course the USAS should fire faster, but you shouldn't be able to spam frag rounds out of it the same way.
You keep acting like we're arguing with you for no reason, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand, you admit that they need to readjust it. On the other hand, you insinuate that the fact that it's broken is a lie and that it's not actually overpowered because [...] and you can actually do that with [...] and that the problem is actually [...], not with the USAS because it requires skill to use. When someone disagrees, you just point back to the post where you claimed they should "look into it." and play both sides.
Livestream in 3.5 hours: http://www.ea.com/1/gamechangers
With all the USAS discussion, I thought you guys would enjoy this.
Just pray they never bring the AA-12 into the game.
AA-12 in CoD8 is hilariously broken. Attach a foregrip to it and it's basically the USAS+Frag Rounds of that game.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
Thanks for the heads up Niro, will listen. Thanks for helping with the name change as well.
Almost every single weapon and accessory are going to be balanced in some way or other in the upcoming patch. Do you think all of then are broken?
Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that while I do think that adjustments should be made to avoid USAS/Frags spamming, I don't believe they brake the game in any way, except when you're playing in Metro or Bazaar because they're both awful rush maps?
More-so I said time and time again that the only way to eliminate the issues you guys have with it is to eliminate frag rounds for the game altogether. No nerfing will address your complains. Let's see:
1 - Splash Damage is too high.
Well, gee it's an explosive round! It's supposed to have at least some splash damage, maybe Dice should nerf it until it becomes a firecracker, or make explosive rounds that don't explode.
2 - Direct Damage is too high.
It's a explosive shotgun round, direct damage should be higher than a regular rifle/carbine/SMG round. Let's use explosive rubber rounds instead!
3 - Range is too good.
It's a round, not a pellet, they should have more range. Maybe Dice should scrap the rounds and add explosive pellets.
4 - Fire rate is too high.
It's an automatic shotgun! That's the whole gist of it. No matter what you think about it, they should fire faster than the others and closer to the fire rate of other automatic weapons. Maybe making an automatic shotgun fire rate the same as a pump action one will satisfy you, as preposterous as that is.
5 - Accuracy is too good.
I didn't know the USAS shot homing explosive rounds. I mean, you don't need to aim at all going by the way you complain. There's no skill involved whatsoever. Just shot in his "general direction" you said, but what the fuck is that supposed to mean? If you're not aiming close enough to someone you're not killing him with either direct or splash damage. If you hit someone directly he should be dead anyway, if you're getting killed repeatedly by splash damage stop camping and remaining stationary, it's your fault you're getting killed not the weapon.
There is no way to fix your issues with frag rounds without eliminating then from the game, admit it.
I find ridiculous that you believe that an unskilled player can drastically improve his stats (K/D and all that shit that no one should care about), and can be actually better just by using the USAS. BF is not team deathmatch, while you can play that mode the whole game is based around objectives, you're not a good player just because you're killing a lot of people.
Frankly, it just smells to me as a bad player excuse. "Hey I'm dying all the time, but only because everyone is using frags! He shouldn't have killed me, I was hiding in plain sight just next to that wall!".
I can actually understand Seks mostly because he was specific about his complains. From a rush player perspective the USAS is overpowered in Metro, but the main issue IMO is with the map, not the gun.
You on the other hand complains about frags in general, like you didn't have a multitude of ways and tools to deal with then.
Don't engage USAS users head on, don't stay stationary in a firefight with one, be mindful of cover as the splash damage can get to you, and as with everything in this game use your head before you go marching in choke points making yourself an easy target for your foes, use smoke when going for objectives specially in rush.
There's nothing extraordinary about these things, they are just stuff that every player should do, but unfortunately unskilled or novice players can't grasp.
Finally I'm not speaking on both sides of my mouth, I find that it says much about this argument that we're having that I can see valid points when you or other people complain about the USAS but you on the other hand just dismiss whatever argument I might have based solely on your experience, or a patch note or tweet by Dice.
Again, I have not played with you, I don't know how good you are. This is not a shot at you, but forgive if I don't take your word for granted.
For all I know your problem could be that you're just too much of a gentleman to play this game like Zhynto.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
awwwwww.... how cute
*gasp* JJD get that thing out of your mouth right now!
*gasp* JJD get that thing out of your mouth right now!
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Thanks for your contribution in this discussion dude...
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Name change?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
I am just going to chime in and say that while I have exclaimed "Bullshit!" after dying to USAS+frags on more than one occasion, I don't see it as too overpowered. The things DICE is adjusting on it should go a long way to make it more "balanced". But hey, it is an automatic shotgun with frag rounds, it should be devastating.
I feel the FAMAS I use needs more balancing than the USAS+frags does.
I feel the FAMAS I use needs more balancing than the USAS+frags does.
I am the artist formerly known as Darkshier, but thanks to Niro's good graces, my Forum name now matches my XBL gamertag.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Boss Man
Member
I realize that they are balancing a lot of things, but USAS/frags is explicitly broken. It is not intended to shoot frags that fast. It's not just a matter of balance, it's a bug and shouldn't be happening in the first place. It is not working as intended, and it is very overpowered.
I'm not complaining about frags in general, I'm complaining about a gun that has rapid-fire death at close and mid-range. It might be ok if it didn't shoot the frags so damn quickly. It is usually only a game-breaking problem on Metro, but that doesn't matter. It still needs to be fixed, and it can still be annoying in other games. I don't care if an automatic shotgun firing frag rounds in real life would kill the shit out of people, this is a video game where people can take multiple shots to the neck and run away. It needs to be balanced with the rest of the weapons in the game.
I'm curious how you have so many more kills with the USAS than anything else if, according to you, you've only used it for 5% of the time you've played. Don't you think it's somewhat indicative of the weapon being overpowered?
Let's check something out in your stats since you persuaded me to look earlier. Here are your top 5 weapons (time spent):
A-91 Time Spent: 8h 8m
USAS-12 Time Spent: 7h 51m
G53 Time Spent: 5h 29m
M249 Time Spent: 4h 52m
M4A1 Time Spent: 4h 41m
A-91 kills: 473
USAS-12 Kills: 761
A-91 kills/min: 0.97
USAS-12 kills/min: 1.59
G53 kills/min: 0.81
M249 kills/min: 0.86
M4A1 kills/min: 0.88
A-91 Accuracy: 16.07%
USAS-12 Accuracy: 29.37%
G53 Accuracy: 15.87%
M249 Accuracy: 11.2%
M4A1 Accuracy: 14.46%
Now, honestly. Do you not think that the USAS effects your productivity in a huge way? If you were looking at these numbers without bias, would it be difficult to spot an outlier? Do you actually believe that this hasn't had a dramatic effect on your k/d, as you said earlier?
The Faceless Master
Member
http://battlefieldo.com/threads/clues-to-the-new-expansion.4105/
lol, i never even noticed the name change because i went by the Avatar!
The Faceless Master
Member
*looks at own stats*
yeah, i can tell which shotguns i used frag rounds with based solely on accuracy %
yeah, i can tell which shotguns i used frag rounds with based solely on accuracy %
I honestly don't think that the USAS affects my productivity, K/D meaningfully. I told you countless times, I only use the USAS on Metro and Bazaar. Sometimes on Seine. Those are all infantry focused maps, pretty much everyone scores more kills on those. They're designed for that, close quarters combat.
Now if you get a high K/D average on those maps it's much more a matter of skill than weapon choice in my opinion. I've played with and against hundreds of USAS players that get a negative or barely positive K/D ratio on infantry focused maps, and why is that if the weapon is so OP? Because they're not skilled enough. Think about this, the USAS can make it more easy to kill enemies, but it don't make you harder get killed...there's still 10, 9 guys that could get you anytime.
Whatever weapon I would choose to play exclusively on those infantry maps would end up getting more kills in less time.
It's easy to realize this is you pay attention at my second best weapon the A-91. Why I have less kills with it if I've played with it more? Because I'm mostly using it on vehicle intensive maps were I spend a lot of time as an engineer in tanks or other vehicles. The difference in K/D is not even that big ...
Anyway, if I have been rude or impolite in my previous posts I'm sorry. I swear I was not trying to offend you.
It's just that all that bitching get's really annoying if you spend as much time playing this game or staying in this thread like I do.
The Faceless Master
Member
GAF has a defense force for everything, even the USAS!
I never thought I would end up on Team Shotgun...
I mean look at this post:
Boss Man
Member
Unfortunately we can't see the K/D for each weapon though, right?
I understand the logic of what you're saying, but I really doubt the K/D of your USAS stats wouldn't be just as exaggerated against the other weapons as everything else is. We can't know, I suppose. I'm not trying to attack your BF SKILLZ BRO or anything, but looking at your stats (accuracy, kill/min, etc) it does not match a 2.1 k/d if you cover up the USAS stats. I could be completely wrong about this, it's not like there's a formula for it. I guess this is the end of the line; you don't think it has a big effect and I do, but we can't look any further.
I understand completely. People don't argue about Battlefield 3 if they're having a good day or in their right mind. Personally, I'm stuck at home sick and also play enough TDM to get really pissed at the USAS.
Yeah, it's a shame. I like battlelog, but there's a lot of stuff they can do if they want to improve it. More useless stats for people to worry is always a good thing! Lol!
I don't know why you believe that my overall K/D doesn't match my other weapons stats, but here's my K/D average for more or less 2/3 of my game time.
It start's at 2.01. At it's lowest my K/D was 1.97. Right now at it's highest it's just 2.14.
Because the hit detection was hit and miss. Hell, even BC1's shotgun netcode is better for the USAS than BC2's.
And BC1's USAS is hilarious, if the Neostead didn't do rail-gun 1shot damage, it'd be the best shotgun for rocket launchers' class in the game.
Also OMG Panama Canal coming back with that Battlefieldo post!?
!!!!!!JJD: You're missing the point. We're bitching because the USAS + Frag is... again... a LAV weapon in the hands of infantry. That's why it's broken. That's why it needs the speed, spread AND damage nerfed completely to where it isn't a vehicle power-weapon in the hands of infantry.
Can someone please turn this into a "bish, banned" gif.
PROSTHETIC
Neo Member
Doin good, team is winning, I'm wreckin some dud-- OH XBOX CRASH THANK YOU
Dreamgazer
Member
frags aside, I am in total disagreement with JJD's comparison of RPG vs. USAS.
RPGs can be easily dodged if it's fired straight at you.
Keep in mind the the thing has a rocket flare to alert you + no splash damage until impact.
(awesome to hear a RPG to just swoosh by you)
That is opposed to shotguns where you cannot see the rounds fired at you + instant spread. If you account for frags, that's a much wider area of splash damage due to the spread also.
__________________________________________________________________________
I hope "close quarter combat" doesn't mean "choke point" like metro. lol.
RPGs can be easily dodged if it's fired straight at you.
Keep in mind the the thing has a rocket flare to alert you + no splash damage until impact.
(awesome to hear a RPG to just swoosh by you)
That is opposed to shotguns where you cannot see the rounds fired at you + instant spread. If you account for frags, that's a much wider area of splash damage due to the spread also.
__________________________________________________________________________
I hope "close quarter combat" doesn't mean "choke point" like metro. lol.
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Anybody fancy a conquest game right now ?
My point was in regards to m-com camping, have you read the whole post, or the ginormous ones that followed? I haven't played much of BF3 rush and have seem a lot of RPG camping when I played...if you take in consideration Carl spamming in BC2 it's a even more valid point.
Also frags only do splash damage on impact too, if you can't hit anything there's no damage whatsoever, hence the need for at least a little bit of skill. Didn't understand that argument.
But I tire of this discussion. I only tried to say that USAS/Frags is not an automatic "Win" button, or a substitute for skill.
I feel sorry that it is such an issue for some gaffers that it's keeping then from playing the game, but thankfully I have no problem whatsoever dealing with frag users either when I'm using it, or any other weapon.
OH MY GOD.
Evolved: Read the ME3 spoiler thread and save yourself $60 and anguish, dude. Thank me later!
Real spoiler!:
Aiming in general area != aiming at the person to direct hit them. What is there to not "get" about that dude? That's where the "less skill" comment comes in. Frag rounds are a "point in general area and get kills"/no-skill ammo type. Buck shot doesn't have an insane spread so you have to actually AIM at the person to get the ammo to hit. Hence: Skill.
The splash damage is insane. Fire the USAS + Frags in the general direction of the door. Round hits the door. Splash goes THROUGH the door and around the area in a mushroom cloud. NO ONE CAN GET THROUGH. How is that not broken?
Evolved: Read the ME3 spoiler thread and save yourself $60 and anguish, dude. Thank me later!
Real spoiler!:
Still going to play through that shit for the platinum but my WAIFU WREX MAY DIE. ;___;
Aiming in general area != aiming at the person to direct hit them. What is there to not "get" about that dude? That's where the "less skill" comment comes in. Frag rounds are a "point in general area and get kills"/no-skill ammo type. Buck shot doesn't have an insane spread so you have to actually AIM at the person to get the ammo to hit. Hence: Skill.
The splash damage is insane. Fire the USAS + Frags in the general direction of the door. Round hits the door. Splash goes THROUGH the door and around the area in a mushroom cloud. NO ONE CAN GET THROUGH. How is that not broken?
The Faceless Master
Member
shooting a doorway or narrow hallway with frag rounds is not something a gentleman would do.
Finally!!!
:lol I see what you're doing there.
PS3 GAF needs a no-frag round, no mobile anti-air, no rockets on infantry custom server. To bad it'll be babby mode.
The Faceless Master
Member
:lol I see what you're doing there.
PS3 GAF needs a no-frag round, no mobile anti-air, no rockets on infantry custom server. To bad it'll be babby mode.
24/7 Kharg Island, 1000 Tickets, Infantry Only, No Killcam.
Boss Man
Member
That's great news, but:
I fail to see how this is an "absolute first" on consoles. It sounds like he's saying no one else has been able to do custom servers on consoles before. I guess it's an "absolute first" for Battlefield 3.DICE CEO said:
I would be down with a no vehicle Kharg Island Rush 1000 tickets game. I dunno about 24/7 though.
At person above: He means it's the first time for Battlefield on console that custom servers are able to be made/rented. Which is kinda true, since private servers were peer to peer IIRC and wanted like 24 players to even START so no one used them. Here, they're going to let you customize EVERYTHING like PC (I wager) which is far superior.