legacyzero
Banned
I said SOME credit. Again, I agree with you. It's like you picked one sentence from my post and ignored the rest.
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Bill Maher Calls His Use of The N-Word a 'Comedian's Mistake'
- Thread starter ShadowSwordmaster
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excelsiorlef
Member
Some is more than the none he deserves.
Because he actively enabled and aided Milo. Just because Wilmore happened to be there isn't worth giving him "some credit.
legacyzero
Banned
Ok. We can disagree. That's cool. Disagreement is an OK thing.
I swear, you're the only poster on this site I can never find middle ground with. I kinda love ya for it
excelsiorlef
Member
Ok. We can disagree. That's cool. Disagreement is an OK thing.
I swear, you're the only poster on this site I can never find middle ground with. I kinda love ya for it
Well in this case it's because you are actively trying to blur just how awful Maher was and how he nearly empowered an active transphobe to gain more credibility and mainstream acceptance had it not been for some Reganites.
Maher actively was going to boost (and still talks of wanting to help him repair his career) a man who is a danger to my community. So yeah I'm not going to just sit back and let people claim Maher deserves even a modicum of positive credit for anything on that Milo episode.
Besides Wilmore's taking Milo to task resulted in nothing in the end because the narrative of Milo and Maher find common ground was the end result...
Thank god there were some random Conservatives out there who unintentionally did more work to help my community on this issue than Maher did... consider that.
Raven117
Member
Running behind the clown nose is such bull sheet.
Look, he has a political show. He wants to be taken seriously when he talks about politics and while he goes for the laugh its still politics. Now that he stepped in it hardcore (which would have buried other figures) he can't simply now hide behind the clown nose and say "Im just a comedian."
The rule of thumb for 99.999999% of white people out there (from comedian, to political, to janitor), is to never use the term under any circumstance ever. That last percentage is reserved for educated, intellectual and respectful discussion of the word, its history, and its uses.
What is the most shocking of Maher's use of the word is that is was so flippant. It wasn't like a Louis C.K. truly comedic dissection of the word and its use in society (dare I say, actually respecting the word for the unique position it holds in the English language). Instead, it was this cheap way to use it, say it, and not only that, use it even in a joking context that insinuated the truly dark origins of the word.
It was probably the most egregious use of the word I have seen on live TV since the 80s.
Look, he has a political show. He wants to be taken seriously when he talks about politics and while he goes for the laugh its still politics. Now that he stepped in it hardcore (which would have buried other figures) he can't simply now hide behind the clown nose and say "Im just a comedian."
The rule of thumb for 99.999999% of white people out there (from comedian, to political, to janitor), is to never use the term under any circumstance ever. That last percentage is reserved for educated, intellectual and respectful discussion of the word, its history, and its uses.
What is the most shocking of Maher's use of the word is that is was so flippant. It wasn't like a Louis C.K. truly comedic dissection of the word and its use in society (dare I say, actually respecting the word for the unique position it holds in the English language). Instead, it was this cheap way to use it, say it, and not only that, use it even in a joking context that insinuated the truly dark origins of the word.
It was probably the most egregious use of the word I have seen on live TV since the 80s.
I do enjoy how Maher was telling Ice Cube that his black jokes were okay because he's fighting racism, then stays quiet like a good little boy and looks like he's about to swallow his bottom lip when Ice Cube told him the Kool-Aid comment. Then, when he's in another interview an Ice Cube's not around, he goes on to say that he never made a jokes at black people's expense, that's when he says:
It could very well be my imagination, but I do get the feeling from how he immediately follows admitting his mistake with "but here's where I wasn't wrong" that he's just licking his wounds there. Whenever I've heard people do that - and I've heard it a million times - it's always after they apologize through gritted teeth. It's the guys who want to get the apology out of the way quick so they can get to they really want to say. He had to admit that saying the word was bad, but he doesn't have to say that making a joke where he pretended to be a house slave acting superior field slave is bad, so he's clinging to that.
Not to mention how his interview here follows that bit he never did and isn't sorry for with "you don't have to watch my show, go after the real bad people who are not me BTW". Not really what I'd expect someone who is sincerely remorseful to sound like.
"When Ice Cube said something about my telling black jokes, I wasn't going to be: ”Oh, well, I made one mistake; I might as well admit mistakes I haven't made." I've never made black jokes. I've made jokes about racists. But my fan base knows that, so it never went anywhere."
It could very well be my imagination, but I do get the feeling from how he immediately follows admitting his mistake with "but here's where I wasn't wrong" that he's just licking his wounds there. Whenever I've heard people do that - and I've heard it a million times - it's always after they apologize through gritted teeth. It's the guys who want to get the apology out of the way quick so they can get to they really want to say. He had to admit that saying the word was bad, but he doesn't have to say that making a joke where he pretended to be a house slave acting superior field slave is bad, so he's clinging to that.
Not to mention how his interview here follows that bit he never did and isn't sorry for with "you don't have to watch my show, go after the real bad people who are not me BTW". Not really what I'd expect someone who is sincerely remorseful to sound like.
BrutishMrFish
Member
Hahaha, no. He's not a genius who lined Milo up so Wilmore could knock him down, he legitimately agreed with many of the things Milo said.
People like you and me had nothing to do with that footage of Milo being released, the person who found that video was a conservative who was already looking into Milo's history at the time. Maher's exposure didn't do shit, but he's taking credit for it because he can't be humble for squat - which calls into question the idea that he can change for the better.
Not really. Both Trump and Maher are adults, both have a history of never apologizing for shit until they have no choice, and both have shown an inability to learn from their past controversies. And I've heard Trump supporters point to Trump's history of not backing down in order to highlight the sincerity of the one time he apologized, which is exactly what you're doing for Maher.
What Trump and Maher said obviously aren't equivalent, but some of the things their fans say to defend them are.
He didn't apologize, he "apologized." The way he kept defensively interrupting Ice Cube made it painfully clear that he couldn't care less about the whole thing. Ice Cube was trying to teach Maher something, and Maher didn't - and doesn't - want to learn. Ice Cube was calm and kept talking about how much he likes Maher's show, and Maher didn't even have the decency to pretend like he was paying attention. The next time Maher does something stupid, "apologizes," and invites someone else on the show to tell him how he fucked up, he should shut up. Maybe then more people would believe he was sincere.
You keep acting like Maher is ashamed. Between his interactions with Ice Cube, his nail salon joke, and him wanting to prop Milo up again, there's very little from his recent history that would suggest he feels (or is even capable of feeling) shame about any of these controversies. He just doesn't care, and he makes it so obvious.
Maher doesn't deserve any kind of credit for inviting Nance and Wilmore on the show when they did literally all the work, and they even had to go against Maher. Maher gave that actor guy who withdrew from the episode more shit than he did Milo. He was worse than useless. He was actively harmful.
This makes no sense. You can't give him no credit for having two guests on who rail against Milo while being mad he had Milo on the show. They are all guests on the show. Either he gets credit and blame for having them or he doesn't. It's literally the entire fucking premise of the format.
Uh, yes I can. Maher literally did nothing. Inviting people to do the heavy lifting for you doesn't count for shit.
You might as well be giving Maher credit for what the Reagan Battalion did.
Of course I can be made he had Milo on the show. There's a world of difference between Nance/Wilmore and Milo. People aren't going to be harmed by an audience being exposed to Nance/Wilmore. The same isn't true of Milo.
He gets blame for giving Milo a platform and actively furthering his talking points, working to prop Milo up, and for having Nance and Wilmore do everything he should have been doing. Maher doesn't get credit for fulfilling a requirement of the format.
Agree to disagree then. I don't watch Bill Maher with the expectation that Maher has to defend everything I believe in. I watch it for the debate between his guests. I love it when his guests shoot him down and make him look like an ass. Eddie Izard was on a few weeks back and repeatedly pointed out how immature his ability to talk about transgender people was. The audience went nearly silent and all the guests just looked at him like a confused old man when he tried making fun of adults for enjoying Harry Potter. In fact, his audience regularly gasps or does not give him the reaction he expects or wants. The show has never been all about him and agreeing with his views.
LordKasual
Banned
This is probably the reason why so much of GAF hates Maher.
Psychoward
Banned
being a huge leftist talking head who drops racial slurs and is transphobic along with inviting milo on to his show to agree with him isn't defensible but ok
Psychoward
Banned
also the just a joke defense doesn't really fly
if you're on tv and you let it slip as as an old white man you already fucked up bigtime
like if he had apologized that episode and didn't try and defend it anymore and didn't have a questionable history then it would be easier to look past
if you're on tv and you let it slip as as an old white man you already fucked up bigtime
like if he had apologized that episode and didn't try and defend it anymore and didn't have a questionable history then it would be easier to look past
excelsiorlef
Member
If you invite a known transphobic bigot on your show (with the claimed intent of exposing him or whatever Maher claimed he was actually doing) I asbolutely expect you to defend my community...
Unacceptable to shrug, nod and claim what is being said sounds reasonable. Unacceptable to not push back, unacceptable to not have come prepared.
Also unacceptable to then say you want to bring said bigot back and want to help him get his career back... something Maher has said about Milo btw.
My humanity is not a debate or something to toy with.
Psychoward
Banned
it's cool that you're not part of a people that maher doesn't defend I guess, but for others it's pretty gross
LordKasual
Banned
So he's a racist transphobic guy who empowers bad people
damn he sounds like the devil, i'll just take your word for it lol
Psychoward
Banned
Maher has absolutely offended me and spread misinformation about "my people". But thanks for making a bunch of assumptions. I still like the show. Sue me.
Lionel Richie
Member
Yes, at this point the people who would have forgiven him or whatever would already have done so, this serves no purpose. I have a completely non scientific theory that people who gain some kind of notoriety regardless of the field they work in get fucking addicted into having the last word, like they can't not be right about something and will argue obliviously until they are perceived as the good guy (or at least not as the bad guy) in the story.
excelsiorlef
Member
He brags about helping right wing reactionaries get careers, he is proud of that accomplishment, he is proud of having helped Coulter and Conway, he openly has said he wants to help Milo get his career back...
Psychoward
Banned
Sorry I didn't think people liked watching others who are on TV and spread misinformation about them because that would be dumb.
Netherscourge
Banned
He's still trying to defend the indefensible.
Better to have just let it fade. Now it's a full-blown stigma.
Better to have just let it fade. Now it's a full-blown stigma.
Messofanego
Banned
Yeah, cause being an anti-vaxxer among other beliefs is common sense 😂
None of it. I think he's in a bubble where he thinks he can say whatever he wants because he gets a comedy pass. But I also think he's lost the plot.
Dude Abides
Banned
You know, I'm starting to think that Bill Maher might not be all that smart.
Or maybe it's because I don't agree with the notion that the best tactic when dealing with somebody you disagree with is to vilify them or call them dumb but to have open dialogue and try to change their mind. You know, like he does on his show and unlike how threads go about him on his forum.
Psychoward
Banned
So the better tactic is to give ratings and money to allow said person who you've never even met to continue spreading their misinformation since he has no notion of ever changing?
This isn't your friend or your neighbor, this is a guy on TV who you're not having a dialog with and can't have a dialog with.
Also I'm vilifying him by using his own quotes? That's unfortunate for him.
excelsiorlef
Member
He shrugged and called Milo's point reasonable...
He did zero research to be ready to "have a dialogue" with a known and open transphobic bigot.....
It wasn't a dialogue it was Maher giving Milo a platform for a monologue.
Oppo
Member
He's not worth railing against. Save the vitriol for someone who will actually not vote with you on practically every issue, I say.
Psychoward
Banned
Did you see the gifs I posted? Along with his other stuff he's certainly not worth having an HBO slot when there are plenty of other well spoken leftists who won't constantly shoot themselves in their foot.
Here we go with the "shut up and accept your allies" lectures.
Edit: Also vitriol? Hardly.
excelsiorlef
Member
He actively wants to help right wing reactionaries find success. He might vote my way but he works against my interests too.
I watched the episode and came away thinking Milo was a fucking idiot who didn't know anything and would spew whatever controversial nonsense he could come up with. It did more to convince me how terrible a person he is than a bunch of op eds telling me how terrible he is.
excelsiorlef
Member
And yet the story that came out of it was that Milo and Maher found common ground.
It was positive PR for Milo. He'd have been riding high were it not for the Reganites
Psychoward
Banned
And Maher agreed with him on multiple points and refused to engage him on others. What does that say about him?
That you and I got very different things from that episode. Remember, I was talking about why I like the show, not making a defense for how great a person Bill Maher is.
Oppo
Member
heh. i like how you checked me on "vitriol" after calling my post a "lecture"
anyways, yes watch Chelsea Handler instead.
(Milo's in the dirt anyways, his book tanked, obviously Maher appearance didn't do a damn thing for him)
Psychoward
Banned
heh. i like how you checked me on "vitriol" after calling my post a "lecture"
anyways, yes watch Chelsea Handler instead.
(Milo's in the dirt anyways, his book tanked, obviously Maher appearance didn't do a damn thing for him)
Oh I should have clarified because I realized that looked like it was directed at you, I just meant in general your line of thought, not your posts specifically.
Also Maher's appearance got washed out because literally within 48 hours it was leaked he was a pedophile defender by a right wing org.
Oppo
Member
no worries, all good
?? didn't hear that but that probably says something good about my media habits
Let's do a little press review of Maher's handling of Milo.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...-debut-on-real-time-with-bill-maher/98088264/
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-st-bill-maher-milo-interview-20170218-story.html
http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/17/milo-yiannopoulos-spars-with-bill-maher-attacks-female-comics/
If Maher was anything but a doormat to Milo in that interview the media isn't reporting it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...-debut-on-real-time-with-bill-maher/98088264/
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-st-bill-maher-milo-interview-20170218-story.html
http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/17/milo-yiannopoulos-spars-with-bill-maher-attacks-female-comics/
If Maher was anything but a doormat to Milo in that interview the media isn't reporting it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I agree.
I personally don't get the uproar, he's done much worse, and said much worse. When I break down what he meant by his comments the takeaway is simply this: Bill Maher thinks that if he were a slave he'd have been a house slave because he's too bitch made to bare the fields, which is a statement I'd probably agree with. The fact that he even empathizes with black people for a second is far ahead a majority of white people in this country.
Now Maher's backing of Milo and Coulter are much more alarming.
Now Maher's backing of Milo and Coulter are much more alarming.
And Wilmore only interacted with Milo on Overtime, which is seen by a fraction of the audience of the main Real Time show
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