Whitecrow
Banned
People need time to enjoy feeling good about someone making a mistake.
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Kendrick Lamar halts performance after white fan he invited on stage says N-word
- Thread starter WinterIsComing
- Start date
WinterIsComing
Member
To me, this seems like something that shouldn't provoke any kind of offense or outrage.
Yes, everyone knows white people shouldn't say the nword.
Yes, everyone knows black people get offended when the nword is said by white people.
But... yes, KL called her on stage, and yes, KL asked her to sing his song.
Yes, everyone knows white people shouldn't say the nword.
Yes, everyone knows black people get offended when the nword is said by white people.
But... yes, KL called her on stage, and yes, KL asked her to sing his song.
Yes, that is correct. She is allowed to buy the album. She is allowed to pay to attend the concert. She is allowed on stage to sing along. But she better not get caught up in the moment and actually sing all the words because of her skin color. If she does, she is the racist.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So I'm pretty sure that everyone in general universally thinks the following:
- White people using the n-word is knowingly offensive
- Black people are allowed to use the n-word in whatever context they want and it is knowingly not offensive (I'm generalizing)
...in any normal social context, a white person using the n-word is knowingly using a word that is offensive to black people. It isn't a suppression of free speech that these social contracts exist around this word. You are free to say whatever word you like. But if you're white and you use that word in public, you MUST know that you're breaching these generally accepted facts of society. You cannot act surprised or upset if people get upset with you or offended.
Now here's a grey area that I don't think there's been any generally accepted conclusion:
- White people singing the n-word in a song
...I think contextually, it's understood that the word being regurgitated as part of a song isn't intended to really offend anyone, but IS a breach of the universally understood "white people using the n-word is offensive" thing above.
I'm genuinely interested in what black people think about this. Like if a white person is in their home or their car singing along to the lyrics, would that person be expected to censor themselves in private? Would you care if you knew that every single white person was in their home singing these lyrics which included the n-word?
...and if you don't care about them doing it in private, do you now care if they're doing it in public?
I think based on the reactions we see, the answer is at the VERY LEAST: yes, SOME people get offended.
If this is the case, than white people in general should either just censor themselves in public by default unless explicitly cleared to go ahead and sing it. That's the safest route to go. If you don't really know your audience and their views on this, it's best to just be cautious.
Being in a very public setting around strangers is not the time to test the waters on this.
I don't think any of these social contract things are inherently racist. Of course white people are ALLOWED to say the n-word. Someone who's saying "white people can't say the n-word" isn't literally saying that it's a criminal offense for white people to say the n-word. They're more saying "if white people say the n-word, it will offend me".
I understand this woman in the crowd probably didn't have time to really think all this through. There was a ton of emotion and social pressure in that situation, I can understand why she wouldn't be thinking clearly in this scenario, and would be too embarrassed to either attempt to censor herself or ask for permission. Of all the shit to get upset about, I don't think this ranks super high.
If Kendrick was being a bit more understanding, he'd let it all go and then make some little joke at the end like "that was great...but don't let me hear you saying that n-word anymore now that you're done!" and everyone would go about their lives.
...I've officially wrote way to fucking much about this.
Most black people that like hip-hop know that white people say the "N" word when they sing along to hip-hop\R&B music privately (in their house or vehicle). Most of us don't mind that either. Now personally, I'd tell any white person that it's just best not to use the word in public. I've told this story a couple weeks ago on GAF, but my best man at my wedding is white. He used the "N" word many times with me and his black friends. Because we knew his heart we gave him a "pass". But he was aware enough to know not to use it around black people that wasn't close to him as friends. He NEVER ever used that word even around my family when he came to cookouts, parties, etc because he understood.
I agree with this. Kendrick is literally my favorite rapper at the moment (my favorite all-time is NAS) and he knows better. I'm assuming his DJ screwed this one up and played the wrong version.
Because for the life of me I'm always trying to find out why white people get so upset that when they say the "N" word there's backlash, but when black people in Hip-Hop use it there's no backlash. I read and hear white people say that things should be 100% equal when it comes to the "N" word. I'm honestly confused why white people even want to use that word in public even when singing a song.
As a straight male, I've never felt this way about the word "faggot". I don't care about the context. I never feel the urge or want to say it in private. The few times I get pissed at someone on the road and say it to myself about a stupid driver that cut me off, I even correct myself. And especially in public, I never get close to saying it. Even typing the word here with the proper context of a discussion just now feels odd.
Who really thinks this chick is a racist? This is more about her as a white person crossing a line and using the "N" word in public. Everyone there understood the context.
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Don'tBeWeird
Member
He didn't get mad. He politely gave her a chance to give it another try.
She was able to sing along while being respectful. It wasn't a horrible request, and it's certainly not difficult thing to do.
Let's be outraged, though.
infinitys_7th
Member
Come on, you are better than this at reasonable discussion. She recited a lyric he asked her to recite.
BANGS
Banned
Nigga please...
infinitys_7th
Member
Would you feel it would cross the line for a white person to say the N-word while reading "To Kill a Mockingbird" publically, like in a classroom?
This is just bizarre to me. It's literally just an innocent recital.
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Lionel Richie
Member
That's some great taste in hip-hop right there, Nas is truly the GOAT.
I think by and large white people prefer not to say it because of its historical origins. But look at it from this perspective. White kids growing up today idolize artists and their music just like they have for decades. They buy the albums, they attend the concerts, they buy the merchandise. They see everything as normal and cool. But if they sing the entire song, they can be painted racist solely because of their skin color. Sorry, but that is racism. Anytime we have special rules by skin color - that is racism. Is at racism on the level of 1840's racism? No, of course not and to suggest such is stupid. But it is still racism, and people will always get upset when they are the victims of racism.
manfestival
Member
This comparison doesn't work to me simply because people won't go around calling each other THAT word in place of brother or friend. That word always has a negative connotation even if it is said in jest.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
White folks are all good to say it there. Music is more personal to people, hence why it's viewed differently than reciting a poem or reading a book out loud. And be honest, we all know bad words are bleeped out on the radio anyway, so we don't have to act like bleeping words out of a song is unheard of. I've never heard of a book being printed that bleeps the bad words out of it.
Yep, proximity to a disenfranchised community is probably right. This stuff isn't 100% straight science though because we are dealing with human emotions amongst 10s of millions of people. But on average, yes brown people get a hall pass to use the "N" word. White people don't due to 400 years of American history.
Switch out the word "faggot" in my previous post and change it to "queer" and my point still stands. From my short viewing of some tv shows on cable, members of the LGBT community seem to call each other queers like it's nothing. Though I'd never use that word with them or in speaking about them. Why would I feel the need to?
Us black people have been lying to America and ourselves about that for 25 years. It takes no negative power away. We may want it to, but it doesn't.
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manfestival
Member
I get what you are saying but I guess my point is that the N word in all of its variations is a special case and not really comparable to any other word int he english language. I personally do not use the word queer either but it has multiple meanings as well and there are even shows out there with the word in its name like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Ultimately meaning that the word is far less impactful in the negative connotation than the original term of discussion. Especially since I see nobody attempting to govern those words in the same manner.
LegendOfKage
Member
Only in the most technical sense. I still don't view it as a double standard, unless you're saying "You can't use racial slurs about other races due to the color of your skin, but other races can use racial slurs about your race." Not that anyone should be using racial slurs in the first place, of course.
But not everyone agrees with my opinion, and I acknowledge and understand that. It's also why
it's maybe not a good idea to bring up a nervous white fan and assume you have this unspoken agreement that they will censor themselves.
Guiberu
Member
racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
- prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
- 1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
lil puff
Member
Whether this use of the word is an issue to you or not is on you. I personally will not police that.
But it is an issue to some people as we can see. Do you honestly think he should have told the crowd to get over themselves? I highly doubt that would have happened, and I would disagree with him if he took it that direction.
Yes, I honestly believe he should have told them that. He should have not stopped the song or if he was going to he should have addressed the people disrupting. He should not have pushed the blame on to this fan that he brought on the stage to sing a song with him. He didn't seem to have a problem with it, and only jumped in when people in the crowd started booing. He didn't stop her when she said it the first or second time, and he had ample time to do so between each instance.
If I were the artist and it was my song, I would have asked the people disrupting if they didn't like the song. Putting it on them. If they still wanted to disrupt I would have quit the show and walked off with the fan. Showing my support for her instead of the people disrupting.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Just gonna share some thoughts of mine.
Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode. The lyric was Colored Boy. Changed to Country Boy to get played on the radio. Berry knew Colored Boy wouldn't be played on white radio.
This is what white people see/think when thinking of racism in the USA imo. And why people think racism isn't current imo.
Todays white youth doesn't see Nigga as racist, but do see Nigger is.
We've seen the disappearance in the USA of Black and White culture by name. As an example speaking black or white has been replaced by speaking street and speaking country. Urban/City culture and Country/Rural culture.
Todays white youth doesn't feel connected at all to the sins of racism past. So it's understandable that they don't understand.
Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode. The lyric was Colored Boy. Changed to Country Boy to get played on the radio. Berry knew Colored Boy wouldn't be played on white radio.
This is what white people see/think when thinking of racism in the USA imo. And why people think racism isn't current imo.
Todays white youth doesn't see Nigga as racist, but do see Nigger is.
We've seen the disappearance in the USA of Black and White culture by name. As an example speaking black or white has been replaced by speaking street and speaking country. Urban/City culture and Country/Rural culture.
Todays white youth doesn't feel connected at all to the sins of racism past. So it's understandable that they don't understand.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
It seemed like he was reacting to the crowd turning on her. He rescued the situation and she carried on but of course the internet has to turn it into a shitstorm.
lil puff
Member
It seemed to me that he saw what was happening, and some people would have a problem with it. So he did the best he could to mitigate the situation for all involved.
Would I have brought her on stage during this song? No. I would have smelled this shit a mile away. But people have a right to react to what they feel connected to, and for him to just ignore that is unrealistic.
They can act how ever they want. He didn't mitigate the situation. He pushed the blame on to this fan and made her change. She didn't do anything wrong. He should have scolded the audience for this. Again, ask them if they didn't like that song. Show them their own hypocrisy, or stand with the fan that he put in the situation.
RubxQub
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Saying that she didn't do anything wrong implies that everyone universally agrees that she didn't do anything wrong. Well, a very vocal group of people at that concert thought she did something wrong. You don't have to agree with them.
The situation wasn't white girl doesn't offend anyone, Kendrick makes her feel like an idiot.
The situation was white girl offends a large number of people at a concert, Kendrick tries to mediate a situation where there's no obvious right thing to do
Kendrick could have done something different, but he's then forced to tell a bunch of people at his concert (that are very likely black like he is) that THEY are wrong. Instead of alienating a large number of his audience, he chooses to somewhat alienate a single person on stage with him (the target of the anger from the audience).
It wasn't a perfect response. It wasn't an obviously innocent act by the white girl. It wasn't an awful response. And it wasn't an obviously malicious act by the white girl.
Imperfect situation, imperfect response to that situation.
GeekyDad
Member
It's a confusing request, at least to some of us. I asked about it (seriously) on "the other site," and got a three-day ban. Evidently some folks just can't handle civil discussion if it rubs against a sensitive issue.
Honestly, I am baffled as to why the word is NOT offensive when a black person says it, but -- in the same context, and alongside the person who wrote the lyrics you've been asked to sing along to -- when a white person says it with the same intent, it's then offensive to the person who wrote the lyric. That's some confusing as fuck shit. That's all I'm sayin'.
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People chose to be offended by a song that they expected to hear at the concert. There is obviously a right thing to do. Stand by his choices. He chose to bring a white girl on stage to sing a song with the word in it. He didn't tell her before hand to censor herself.
Why are they offended by a song they expected to hear, and if he would have sang it they wouldn't have been offended. Sorry they are wrong here and he should have told them that. Thats the problem. They should be alienated in this case if they want to keep that mindset. He did what he thought would be best for him and his image. Not what was right.
MastAndo
Member
Can't we just accept that there are clearly two versions of the word - one comes from a hateful place and the other doesn't? I'm not sure why the latter is still deemed completely off-limits. Each should illicit a certain, dinstinct reaction, yet out of white people's mouths, it's almost treated the same. I'm not saying white people should go around calling one another "my n-word", but if we're at the point where a fan is reciting lyrics when asked to do so and everyone is up in arms, something has to give. It's almost like a knee-jerk reaction happening without really caring to look at the context.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
He's only human. He may not have thought people would be upset. And he then tried to defuse the situation. It doesn't seem at least to me that he had ill intent.
Being wrong and having ill intent are different. I don't think he was being malicious to the girl or anything. I just think that he should have took on the blame instead of pushing it to the fan.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Understood.
lil puff
Member
They are not offended by the song. They (some of them) probably did not want to sit there and listen to her go thru the entire song using the word.
There are people, like it or not that have certain feelings about when, who and why the word should be used and that part is indeed complicated. Saying that it is wrong seems to point to your own perspective. Not theirs.
They are offended by the song being sung by someone white. It is not complicated in who should use the word. If you use the word, do not complain when others use the word. If you don't tell everyone that uses the word they are wrong. Its simple and easy. They chose to make it complicated with the addition of the rules they impose.
lil puff
Member
This is different than telling a crowd of black people to get over hearing the N-word..
Some sort of 'my bad' acknowledging that he should have thought better - I have no problem with. Again, I think this entire thing is a bit odd that he did not know better from the start.
GeordieMark
Member
So I guess the girl could have used her common sense and self-censored, but Kendrick also should have had an idea what might happen if he gets someone up to sing a song that features that word as many times as the song does. It’s hard to tell what’s genuine and what’s a stunt these days, but nobody comes out of this looking particularly smart.
GeekyDad
Member
See, now that's a completely reasonable and understandable consideration. I had no real knowledge of the circumstances other than what was written in the post. If that was truly the situation, I can totally see him justifiably improvising a sort of damage control. But holy fuck, I got banned just for asking about it. Them fuckers over there need to step outside of their hotplate or something, fuck!
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Welcome back. Hakuna Matata!
infinitys_7th
Member
If anyone really wants to feel like the world is doomed, just read through Era's thread. There are people saying she deserves to go to jail for this (in the context that one poster said she would go to jail if she was in the UK).
Maybe not jail but she could definitely face fines in the UK. Remember the story of the girl that posted the lyrics to a rap song on her instagram and got fined for it.
D
Deleted member 713885
Unconfirmed Member
Pro tip for white people and saying the N word..
1. Stop this argument about saying it via music by stop listening to friggin rap music.
I wont lie, I lived through the 90's, I loved Wu-Tang, Nas etc.. but now, I can look back on that music and just cringe! Its embarrassing. I know ZERO about "da hood" other then being poor white trash, not a single part of adult me wants to talk about/be seen listening to/adhere to music about expensive clothing, diamonds in my mouth, "long dicking bitches", selling keeeysss, etc..
If your 30 years old, on your way to work at Gamestop, white, and I pull up along side you and your car is blasting..
put them bricks in the fender/My bitch, she walk around like she Kris Jenner/I used to break and then enter/Then Takeoff running like the game of temple/It's simple, I play with the mental/Mama said she saw me on Jimmy Kimmel/Canada, ’cause I'm a money symbol/Walkin' with the racks, I'm lookin' crippled"
Then your a fucking fool
Just stop white people.
I know, I know..
The minute I open up the "Rap music is poison/trash" argument the first responses are gonna be..
"Well, well not 'insert semi-positive, bookbag wearing Howard University graduate, who skateboards, is trendy, who's only slight is misogyny"
The only thing less worse then rap music is rap music made by white people.
Even worse then them is people who listen to it in the car with their kids...ugh..
Summer is almost here..which means I'll be at a stop light and see a dad bobbing his head to a profanity laced song about drugs and bitches while his kids are in the back seat slowly being indoctrinated into stupidity.
1. Stop this argument about saying it via music by stop listening to friggin rap music.
I wont lie, I lived through the 90's, I loved Wu-Tang, Nas etc.. but now, I can look back on that music and just cringe! Its embarrassing. I know ZERO about "da hood" other then being poor white trash, not a single part of adult me wants to talk about/be seen listening to/adhere to music about expensive clothing, diamonds in my mouth, "long dicking bitches", selling keeeysss, etc..
If your 30 years old, on your way to work at Gamestop, white, and I pull up along side you and your car is blasting..
put them bricks in the fender/My bitch, she walk around like she Kris Jenner/I used to break and then enter/Then Takeoff running like the game of temple/It's simple, I play with the mental/Mama said she saw me on Jimmy Kimmel/Canada, ’cause I'm a money symbol/Walkin' with the racks, I'm lookin' crippled"
Then your a fucking fool
Just stop white people.
I know, I know..
The minute I open up the "Rap music is poison/trash" argument the first responses are gonna be..
"Well, well not 'insert semi-positive, bookbag wearing Howard University graduate, who skateboards, is trendy, who's only slight is misogyny"
The only thing less worse then rap music is rap music made by white people.
Even worse then them is people who listen to it in the car with their kids...ugh..
Summer is almost here..which means I'll be at a stop light and see a dad bobbing his head to a profanity laced song about drugs and bitches while his kids are in the back seat slowly being indoctrinated into stupidity.
infinitys_7th
Member
I know that, but the REEEseters don't. It's just frightening that they would think she should.
Then again, these are the same people who hoped Dankula would get killed in prison :/
bucyou
Member
PhendranaMama
Banned
Nobody on Era thinks this girl should go to prison.
TrainedRage
Banned
I'm reporting you for bursting my bubble. How dare you be confused?
It's simple , "something, something white people, something."
It's simple , "something, something white people, something."
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Please don’t make this about another site.
infinitys_7th
Member
THIS NOT ONLY APPLIES TO INFINITY BUT ANY OTHER USER THAT IS TOUCHING UPON THE OTHER BOARD: PLEASE STOP.
Edit: I won't bring this up anymore. I just keep going down the abyss and finding more cosmic horrors whose images follow me back out, and it is frustrating. I want to laugh, but, like I said, the mentality is frightening to me. Imagine if these people held power?
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mr.dilya
Banned
Also, I tend to agree that it is stupid for white people or non blacks in general to use the word, especially if they are not from the hood. But anyone who grew up in the hood knows blacks don't just call each other nigga, they call everyone nigga, my nigga, this nigga, that nigga, fuck that nigga etc; so to act like it's some closely guarded word withon the black american lexicon is pure bullshit, and so is the phony outrage.
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