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[NealMcCauley]

Surely I wasn't the only one who thought of The Dark Knight Rises when we find out the child in the memory is a girl.

I kept thinking how much the factory/furnace set looked like something out of a Nolan film, especially with IMAX framing.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

You can read "All the best ones are hers" in a few ways

1) She puts her own memories from time to time and they are the best.
2) Any memory she makes are the best ones out of all

Both of the above are general and apply to every replicant out there. The third one though is personal to K

3) All of the good memories K has is because of her, and that's only so because K is the special replicant i.e. the duplicate of her. Which is why when Deckard asks why he matters to K he just tries to deflect that question as he doesn't want him to know he is a duplicate.


I'm quite down on K being the duplicate, especially after reading wikipedia as whoever wrote it seemed to have interpreted the same.

She also mentioned that her created memories are good because they contain a little truth in every one. So all the best ones are hers could also mean that too. As in: other memory creators are inferior because they only come up with complete fabrications.

 

[jett]

This is news to me, Villeneuve wanted David Bowie in Blade Runner 2049

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/li...-wanted-David-Bowie-in-Blade-Runner-2049.html

“I never met David Bowie, I never talked to him. I never had that privilege. The thing is that, when you read a screenplay, you dream. It’s the birth of the dream. And there was a character that needed an actor that would come with a very strong charisma, an actor that will have a kind of theatricality, someone that will be able to deliver the lines and bring power into them—someone that will be beyond this world. Someone that you will believe has no age—that you will not know if he is good or bad—that will be a symbol of ambiguity.

Wallace, maybe?

 

[AuthenticM]

I have some things to say about the movie, but I don't feel like taking the time to write them now. I'll probably do so after I rewatch the movie next Tuesday.

I'll just say that Joi was as real and human as K was. He has faux memories implanted in him to help him interpret reality and communicate and bond with others; she comes with knowledge, vocabulary and set idiomatic expressions to help her interpret reality and communicate and bond with others. They both come with "implanted wisdom", and yet, what they do with that, is their own.

The scene where Joi tells the prostitute to leave because she has no need for her anymore: that scene nails her as a human. She might as well have a soul.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

This is news to me, Villeneuve wanted David Bowie in Blade Runner 2049

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/li...-wanted-David-Bowie-in-Blade-Runner-2049.html



Wallace, maybe?

Yeah, they've said in interviews a few times now that Villeneuve imagined Bowie for the role of Wallace when they were working on the script and pre-production stages. After he died at the start of 2016, they ended up going to Jared Leto instead.

 

[KraftyKrankins]

This is news to me, Villeneuve wanted David Bowie in Blade Runner 2049

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/li...-wanted-David-Bowie-in-Blade-Runner-2049.html



Wallace, maybe?

Yeah, it was confirmed before Wallace was supposed to be played by Bowie before he died.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

That's right. She is told that she has a compromised immune system.

Yup, 100% they told her she had that immune system problem so she'd stay safe and hidden away. I thought that was pretty obvious.

Another weird feeling I came away from the film with, is after that fight scene between Ryan and Harrison I'm...kind of ok with the idea of Indy 5 now? Clearly Harrison was in fantastic shape for this, and he can still throw a convincing punch on screen.

 

[Tacitus_]

What has me scratching my head was how the movie focused on Luv shedding a tear in a few scenes.
She claims by the end that she is the better model after seemingly beating K. Was she just afraid of being made obsolete? Or was there something deeper there.

 

[tonysidaway]

In the scene where Robin Wright's character suspends K does she know at that point that the boy is him?

There are two answers. First, Joe gives her to understand that the child is dead. Second, although at that point he has deduced that he himself is the boy, he later discovers he was mistaken.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

I kept thinking how much the factory/furnace set looked like something out of a Nolan film, especially with IMAX framing.

Honestly the furnace set felt insanely steampunkish to me. I was kinda surprised by that.

I have some things to say about the movie, but I don't feel like taking the time to write them now. I'll probably do so after I rewatch the movie next Tuesday.

I'll just say that Joi was as real and human as K was. He has faux memories implanted in him to help him interpret reality and communicate and bond with others; she comes with knowledge, vocabulary and set idiomatic expressions to help her interpret reality and communicate and bond with others. They both come with "implanted wisdom", and yet, what they do with that, is their own.

The scene where Joi tells the prostitute to leave because she has no need for her anymore: that scene nails her as a human. She might as well have a soul.

Yup, that was my takeaway too.

Although I do like that there's some room for ambiguity with Joi, given that final scene with the advertisement Joi calling K "Joe" and the lingering shot on the ad slogan about how Joi tells you what you want to hear and feel. That little added "question mark" adds another dash of tragedy to K's life as he makes the decision to carve his own path and give Deckard and his daughter a chance at happiness.

 

[JB1981]

There are two answers. First, Joe gives her to understand that the child is dead. Second, although at that point he has deduced that he himself is the boy, he later discovers he was mistaken.

Then why was he suspended again?

 

[tonysidaway]

Another weird feeling I came away from the film with, is after that fight scene between Ryan and Harrison I'm...kind of ok with the idea of Indy 5 now? Clearly Harrison was in fantastic shape for this, and he can still throw a convincing punch on screen.

That does it. Harrison Ford is totes a replicant.

 

[broncobuster]

Yeah, they've said in interviews a few times now that Villeneuve imagined Bowie for the role of Wallace when they were working on the script and pre-production stages. After he died at the start of 2016, they ended up going to Jared Leto instead.

Leto was great in the role, but I'll admit I'd have loved to see Bowie (RIP) as Tesla as Wallace.

 

[BronsonLee]

Then why was he suspended again?

Because he completely failed his baseline test

She didn't suspend him so much as give him 2 days to get his shit together

 

[Chained Prometheus]

Then why was he suspended again?

Because he'd appeared to have drifted away from the case entirely by being located in a place seemingly unrelated to the missing child. In Joshi's eyes, it looked like K has lost the plot and his baseline test after he was brought back in showed that he was totally out of whack.

 

[El Topo]

Yup, 100% they told her she had that immune system problem so she'd stay safe and hidden away. I thought that was pretty obvious.

I would agree, but then we have the log of the two orphans earlier in the movie, one of which died due to some deficiency/syndrome. I assumed it had been this immune system deficiency and they just claimed she had died.
The movie is ambiguous enough when it comes to these things.

 

[broncobuster]

As little action there was in the movie, I loved how it was mostly quick and punchy after buildup. Like after K's vehicle crashed and you see raiders approach him, there's a few seconds of him quickly shooting at them and snapping a fella's back before it's over.

 

[Captain Skeleton]

Because he'd appeared to have drifted away from the case entirely by being located in a place seemingly unrelated to the missing child. In Joshi's eyes, it looked like K has lost the plot and his baseline test after he was brought back in showed that he was totally out of whack.

It's also described as being an "upgrade centre".

 

[Flipyap]

Joi was just tryin' to help man

(I'm of the opinion that while she's programmed to say what he wants to hear, she went against him many times like with calling the hooker over and risking herself by getting put in the emanator)

She only ever did anything "on her own" to please and protect him, and in her only solo scene she spares him the awkwardness of having to personally hire/dismiss a prostitute. That's some convenient autonomy.

Joe and Joi are the GOAT, Deckard is a wuss and I hope his Bubble Boy daughter ignores him and his alcoholic dog

Haha, poor doggie. I hope it gets the help it needs.

 

[AuthenticM]

Although I do like that there's some room for ambiguity with Joi, given that final scene with the advertisement Joi calling K "Joe" and the lingering shot on the ad slogan about how Joi tells you what you want to hear and feel. That little added "question mark" adds another dash of tragedy to K's life as he makes the decision to carve his own path and give Deckard and his daughter a chance at happiness.

This is the only scene in the movie that I think fails it. It seems like the intention of the movie (and Villeneuve's) is to push the idea that K and Joi's relationship wasn't real. I mean, at least that's how K interprets that moment, with him resoluting himself to helping Deckard (supported by what the rebel leader said with "our fight is real" (paraphrasing here)). But that's why it also feels like that's what the people behind the movie also thought. I hate that. I hate it because it feels like Villeneuve and the screenwriter didn't understand Joi's character. It feels like they failed her. And it's cruel because K ends up believing that Joi didn't really loved him. Which is bullshit.

The only difference between K and Joi is he is made of DNA, while she is made of 1s and 0s. That's it.

 

[BronsonLee]

Haha, poor doggie. I hope it gets the help it needs.

I mean he's all alone but on the flip side he is in Vegas!

I think Villeneuve left a lot of things for the viewer to decide on their own. Like almost all of the movie.

 

[Window]

So Gaff's origami was of a sheep right? What a weird scene that was.

 

[hawkshockey11]

The music basically ruined the movie for me. Someone like Clint Mansell would have much better handled the music for the world and tone the movie was trying to achieve.

 

[Dead]

This is the only scene in the movie that I think fails it. It seems like the intention of the movie (and Villeneuve's) is to push the idea that K and Joi's relationship wasn't real. I mean, at least that's how K interprets that moment, with him resoluting himself to helping Deckard (supported by what the rebel leader said with "our fight is real" (paraphrasing here)). But that's why it also feels like that's what the people behind the movie also thought. I hate that. I hate it because it feels like Villeneuve and the screenwriter didn't understand Joi's character. It feels like they failed her. And it's cruel because K ends up believing that Joi didn't really loved him. Which is bullshit.

The only difference between K and Joi is he is made of DNA, while she is made of 1s and 0s. That's it.

She didn’t. She’s a product, nothing more.

People coming out of this saying they want their own Joi are taking away the wrong thing from this film.

 

[tonysidaway]

Then why was he suspended again?

His baseline tests show he is outside parameters.

 

[Surfinn]

Joi was just tryin' to help man

(I'm of the opinion that while she's programmed to say what he wants to hear, she went against him many times like with calling the hooker over and risking herself by getting put in the emanator)

Joe and Joi are the GOAT, Deckard is a wuss and I hope his Bubble Boy daughter ignores him and his alcoholic dog

What do you mean went against him?

Yeah they were easily my favorite thing about this film

 

[Chained Prometheus]

This is the only scene in the movie that I think fails it. It seems like the intention of the movie (and Villeneuve's) is to push the idea that K and Joi's relationship wasn't real. I mean, at least that's how K interprets that moment, with him resoluting himself to helping Deckard (supported by what the rebel leader said with "our fight is real" (paraphrasing here)). But that's why it also feels like that's what the people behind the movie also thought. I hate that. I hate it because it feels like Villeneuve and the screenwriter didn't understand's Joi's character. It feels like they failed her. And it's cruel because K ends up believing that Joi didn't really loved him. Which is bullshit.

The only thing different between K and Joi is he is made of DNA, while she is made of 1s and 0s. That's it.

I disagree. I think there's absolutely a strong enough case that the Joi that K knew did legitimately love him and was her own character. What makes that last scene stand out to me is that it adds in a dash of ambiguity from K's perspective. We the audience can generally feel secure in knowing that Joi genuinely loved K- but now K isn't as sure, which is really goddamn tragic and heartbreaking for both him and Joi.

It's definitely not a happy situation at all, but I think it fits in with the general approach of the story. In one of the recent interviews with Ana de Armas, Sylvia Hoeks and Mackenzie Davis, they talked about how they saw the film as being like an opera at times.

Essentially, K and Joi got royally fucked over by life.

It's probably a bit hokey for others, but I like to generally believe that there is some form of soul and afterlife for these characters in the Blade Runner universe, given the whole blatant dove flying up into the sky moment in the original film when Roy dies and how the recent Watanabe Blade Runner 2022 short features a similar moment with one of its other replicants there.

So hopefully K and Joi found some form of peace in whatever strange digital-analog divinity there is in the BR world.

 

[BronsonLee]

What do you mean went against him?

Yeah they were easily my favorite thing about this film

He didn't ask/request any of those things and said no at first to both

She eased him into both ideas and I thought the whole thing for robots is that they won't put themselves at risk, which she did

So hopefully K and Joi found some form of peace in whatever strange digital-analog divinity there is in the BR world.

Welcome to San Junipero!

(I mean Yorkie IS there)

 

[MrS]

Clint Mansell would have had a field day with this. He'd have crushed it.

The music basically ruined the movie for me. Someone like Clint Mansell would have much better handled the music for the world and tone the movie was trying to achieve.

TELL EM

Mother is still the best film I've seen this year. Really looking forward to seeing Blade Runner 2049 again tomorrow though. My feelings are still mixed on it despite enjoying the story and cinematography.

 

[AuthenticM]

I disagree. I think there's absolutely a strong enough case that the Joi that K knew did legitimately love him and was her own character. What makes that last scene stand out to me is that it adds in a dash of ambiguity from K's perspective. We the audience can generally feel secure in knowing that Joi genuinely loved K- but now K isn't as sure, which is really goddamn tragic and heartbreaking for both him and Joi.

It's definitely not a happy situation at all, but I think it fits in with the general approach of the story. In one of the recent interviews with Ana de Armas, Sylvia Hoeks and Mackenzie Davis, they talked about how they saw the film as being like an opera at times.

Essentially, K and Joi got royally fucked over by life.

It's probably a bit hokey for others, but I like to generally believe that there is some form of soul and afterlife for these characters in the Blade Runner universe, given the whole blatant dove flying up into the sky moment in the original film when Roy dies and how the recent Watanabe Blade Runner 2022 short features a similar moment with one of its other replicants there.

So hopefully K and Joi found some form of peace in whatever strange digital-analog divinity there is in the BR world.

Yeah, you might be right. That would be better. I don't want to believe that Villeneuve and co misunderstood their own character.

But man. Is it tragic that K ended up believing that she didn't love him. They were so cute together. :'(

Welcome to San Junipero!

(I mean Yorkie IS there)

HOLY FUCK I KNEW I RECOGNIZED HER

 

[Surfinn]

He didn't ask/request any of those things and said no at first to both

She eased him into both ideas and I thought the whole thing for robots is that they won't put themselves at risk, which she did



Welcome to San Junipero!

(I mean Yorkie IS there)

Oh I see what you're saying now.

Interesting. That is very interesting

I'm inclined to agree with you.

By the way, the E-some is the best scene in the entire film

 

[BronsonLee]

Remember how Blade Runner had the one big debate
2049 has like, four or five of them and doesn't resolve the one big debate at all
Sneaky Denis

 

[tonysidaway]

Yeah, it was confirmed before Wallace was supposed to be played by Bowie before he died.

I think Villeneuve merely mentioned David Bowie and said this was the kind of personality he was thinking of for the role. I don't think he went as far as implying he had ever approached Bowie's agent regarding casting.

 

[Tacitus_]

People coming out of this saying they want their own Joi are taking away the wrong thing from this film.

Wanting a hot AI sycophant is wrong now?

 

[Chained Prometheus]

I think Villeneuve merely mentioned David Bowie and said this was the kind of personality he was thinking of for the role. I don't think he went as far as implying he had ever approached Bowie's agent regarding casting.

Bowie had died before they were ready to ever approach him for casting. He was who they wanted to get for the part though.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

I can totally see a future in this world where Replicants, after conquering and/or exterminating humanity, start abusing the hell out of the AI holographic programs.

 

[Sean C]

She only ever did anything "on her own" to please and protect him, and in her only solo scene she spares him the awkwardness of having to personally hire/dismiss a prostitute. That's some convenient autonomy.

Her desire to be "real" and the way we're shown her interacting with rain, etc. isn't for K's benefit. There isn't anything indicating that K is awkward arounding dismissing the prostitute or even wanted said prostitute hired, either.

Joi is definitely very focused on K, both because of her programming and because, well, he's the only person she knows, so to speak.

 

[Jeffrey]

K's boss's death was disappointing. She comes off as a hard ass sergeant that cares for her folks. Should have put some resistance. Thought she was gonna wipe her computer but all she did was put it in sleep mode :/

 

[Einchy]

K's boss's death was disappointing. She comes off as a hard ass sergeant that cares for her folks. Should have put some resistance. Thought she was gonna wipe her computer but all she did was put it in sleep mode :/

I don't think she realize a Replicant was about to stride into her office and murder her.

 

[JB1981]

His baseline tests show he is outside parameters.

He was arrested prior to that though

 

[Addi]

Welcome to San Junipero!

(I mean Yorkie IS there)

To me she almost felt like a returning Blade Runner character because of that episode. She fit in really well.

What has me scratching my head was how the movie focused on Luv shedding a tear in a few scenes.
She claims by the end that she is the better model after seemingly beating K. Was she just afraid of being made obsolete? Or was there something deeper there.

It reminded me of Get Out somehow, that there is a person in there unable to control what her body is doing. The new replicants were made to be completely obedient, maybe that meant compartmentalising a part of their personality.

 

[Steez]

Why would that "fall on deaf ears"? It was gut-wrenching to you.

Maybe it falls on deaf ears, because the dude I quoted says 2049 has no emotional moments?

What a peculiar post.

 

[Surfinn]

Maybe it falls on deaf ears, because the dude I quoted says 2049 has no emotional moments?

What a peculiar post.

There are definitely emotional moments.

I was moved by the Joi/K scene where she uses someone else to be physical with him

 

[tonysidaway]

He was arrested prior to that though

I'll have to leave that until my next viewing. Perhaps somebody else recollects the exact circumstances in which he returns to the LAPD HQ for testing.

 

[BronsonLee]

He was never arrested

They were wondering wtf he was doing

 

[tonysidaway]

Wanting a hot AI sycophant is wrong now?

It's probably not a popular thing to say in this often very blokey forum, but that's rather creepy stuff.

 

[Tacitus_]

I'll have to leave that until my next viewing. Perhaps somebody else recollects the exact circumstances in which he returns to the LAPD HQ for testing.

He was going to get arrested (or more likely retired) but the bosslady pulled some strings and gave him a couple days of leave to straighten out before a new test that would be out of her hands.

 

[tonysidaway]

He was going to get arrested (or more likely retired) but the bosslady pulled some strings and gave him a couple days of leave to straighten out before a new test that would be out of her hands.

That matches my recollection, too. It had a little "give me your badge and your gun, I'm giving you 48 hours to fix this mess" resonance from just about every detective thriller that ever saw the light of day.

 

[Primpompano]

Those aren't plot holes:

1. Security in this world isn't what you think it is. Wallace owns everything. Luv even says she's going to tell Wallace that it was self-defense.
2. Luv was probably under orders to leave him alive by Wallace in case they needed him further. It's also hinted that she likes him.
3. He was only on leave...so yea...he got to keep his car. He knew where they were and waited for them to leave and followed. Is it that hard to believe?

1. Sure, I just find the death of the osteologist perplexing since everyone just cleans his blood off the floor like it was nothing. And Luv kills him even though it looks like he buys the permit? I don't know. I'd presume if Wallace controlled everything, he'd just replace it with a bunch of fakes or take it legitimately.

2. Hell no. K was dead in Vegas until he got deus ex machina'd.

3. He's told he has 48 hours to... hit baseline? Or 48 hours to not get killed? I can't recall. But he definitely turns his gun and badge in, and is suspended when Luv pulls up his location, not on leave. I buy him chasing after Luv and Deckard, but not in that sweet, sweet Peugeot.

Maybe the Peugeot is his own?

 

[RastaMentality]

The sex scene reminded me of Her but with more of a punch.