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[Jackpot]

Serious question: why can't they hold another vote?

It seems like a lot of new info has come out about Brexit after the vote that would have affected the vote heavily.

If there's new evidence in a murder case, the case is reopened and sometimes an innocent person is freed.

So why can't they reopen Brexit and hold a revote in light of all this new info?

"Having a vote would be undemocratic" - genuine leave voter's post

We just keep voting until we get the right answer?

Why on earth can't we have another vote if the electorate's views have changed? One vote and the matter is settled forever? We'd still be in the dark ages if we followed that line of thinking. What gibberish.

 

[theaface]

Fascinating to read the thoughts of a Leave voter here, simply because the years and years of Tories scapegoating the EU for our domestic woes and widening inequality seem to have actually worked. He really believes it.

It's incredible that somehow the malevolent neoliberal European superstate is to blame for the state of the nation and not just bad government, despite EU investment into forgotten and improverished parts of the country, as others have already pointed out. Whatever happened to the simplest explanation is usually the right one?

 

[Stumpokapow]

okay now that this dude pantsed himself, the media will be responsible and never ever ever ever ever cite him again, right?

 

[theaface]

okay now that this dude pantsed himself, the media will be responsible and never ever ever ever ever cite him again, right?

No need when they can wheel out Nigel Farage for a talking head segment every 5 minutes to get people frothing at the mouth in indignation about refugees and democracy. Never mind the fact that he's never been an MP and now isn't even the leader of a political party.

 

[Muffin1611]

No need when they can wheel out Nigel Farage for a talking head segment every 5 minutes to get people frothing at the mouth in indignation about refugees and democracy. Never mind the fact that he's never been an MP and now isn't even the leader of a political party.

I was definitely surprised when I tuned in BBC when the general election was happening and they still had Farage talking there for them.

Didn't think British media standards were that low by now.

 

[elyetis]

And to your edit, we won't have a Conservative government for ever. And should a left wing labour government get in, it's a good thing (I think) that they won't be constrained by the EU.

That's quite the risky bet when the far safer approach would be to such a gouvernment elected so that it can begin it's change with a better economy, and only when/if needed, take the brexite route.

It's like being an ecologist, but voting to stop any non green energy generation before it actually got replaced by green energy.

 

[BGBW]

 

[boxoctosis]

That's quite the risky bet when the far safer approach would be to such a gouvernment elected so that it can begin it's change with a better economy, and only when/if needed, take the brexite route.

It's like being an ecologist, but voting to stop any non green energy generation before it actually got replaced by green energy.

Don't get your analogy particularly but I do accept it's uncertain and risky. I would also argue that voting Remain is a vote for certainty of more of the shitty same.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Hahahaha.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Don't get your analogy particularly but I do accept it's uncertain and risky. I would also argue that voting Remain is a vote for certainty of more of the shitty same.

Voting Tory is voting for certainty of more of the shitty same. Voting for remain was trying to avoid an inevitable fuck up that will make things worse regardless of which government we have.

 

[Ont]

A more socialist one less in thrall to the markets. That would never happen whilst in the EU.

The problem I have with the people in the UK who argue for socialist revolution is that they typically have never experienced that themselves.

I lived four years in a formerly socialist country and saw it being lifted to prosperity after it joined the EU and free market economy. No one I know there wants to go back to the time before the EU membership/free market capitalism.

The ideal system cannot be based on some old utopia or ideology. You need to combine both the free market capitalism and socialism, and most importantly, the new policies should be based on actual facts and numbers.

Personally I think the UK has been becoming a more unequal and shameful place to live in over the last 30 years.

There is too much focus on equality, what really should matter is that the society is fair and everyone gets the same opportunities. When the government tries to force equality in a society, the country quickly becomes a miserable place to live in.

The new technologies replacing low skilled jobs have more to do with the problems that most countries are facing today. A government that is leaning too far to the left or right can only increase those problems with their policies that are not based on hard numbers and scientific research.

My outlook for the UK looks fairly bleak currently with both May and Corbyn hellbent on leaving the EU no matter what the cost will be. It already looks bad for my industry. I'm sure it is a similar story with the universities, nuclear science, and the trade deals which will be inferior to the ones that a bigger bloc like the EU can negotiate.

For hundreds of years this country tried to prevent united European front against this isolated island, and then with a single masterstroke of stupidity, the benefits of those old foreign policy objectives will get erased. This whole uncertainty revolving around the final form of Brexit which we will get is damaging on its own. A colossal waste of tax payer money.

 

[commedieu]

Should be illegal

 

[elyetis]

Don't get your analogy particularly

That's because my analogy is bad.
The general idea is, even if you see something as inherently bad ( EU / non green energy ) you still need to consider it's positive now, before removing it.

With my shitty analogy, it mean reducing non green energy only when you do have it replaced by green energy, not before just because you think/hope you will be able to have a full green grid at some point.

In the case of the EU, based on why you don't like the EU, you still need to see if with the current political climat, you are not simply putting the country in a worst place now. Even if I disagree with the premise that EU is inherently a bad thing for the UK or any european country for that matter, at least I could understand why someone who just elected a *very* socialist government would vote to leave the EU and allow it's newly elected gouvernment to push even further it's reforms etc..
But doing it *now* for those reason is pretty much only a good bet/idea if you think that the UK will embrace socialism in the next couple year but won't keep that idealogy in power long enough to leave the EU. If you can't even have a government trying to go at least as socialist as country like Sweden, there is just no reason to *already* leave the EU because it prevent the country from becoming even more socialist than that.

but I do accept it's uncertain and risky. I would also argue that voting Remain is a vote for certainty of more of the shitty same.

It would only be true if the EU had far far more impact on what your government can or cannot do than it currently does. Voting Remain only mean that you think that for now your country is better with the EU than without it.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I hope the UK becomes an example of what an isolationist state ends up like. The UK still hasn't seen the full extend of the economical concequences of the brexit. It's going to be brutal.

Why do you hope that? And why haven't you seen it yet?

Also, what's more brutal than being apart of the EU and following the advice of that leadership since 2008?

Maybe you've been run into the ground like Greece or after many years of being in crisis mode you're seeing some life in your economy like Portugal after doing the opposite of what you were told.

In any event, Britain should look to other countries who enjoy high living standards and are competitive without the EU set-up/worldview. They don't really need the burden to be powerful, wealthy, and happy.

 

[daviyoung]

Why on earth can't we have another vote if the electorate's views have changed? One vote and the matter is settled forever? We'd still be in the dark ages if we followed that line of thinking. What gibberish.

Yes, one vote and we're on the path. The public have spoken and the government now have a purpose and must deliver the Brexits. Have you been paying attention to the rhetoric?

The only way you're going to get a vote on whether you're in or out again is if there is some unexpected event (like Brexits directly affecting rich people) or a new government. Not because some people may or may not have changed their mind, that time has passed for good.

 

[BigDes]

So when the inevitable happens and we vote to come slinking back through the catflap in 30 years, how hard are the EU going to fuck us before they let us back in?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

So when the inevitable happens and we vote to come slinking back through the catflap in 30 years, how hard are the EU going to fuck us before they let us back in?

Every British man shall be denied the privilege of queuing. All queues shall be eliminated.

 

[Opto]

I know it's pot calling the kettle black since I'm an american, but half you guys got duped.

 

[RocknRola]

If this wasn't real life, this would really be a top tier comedy. God damn.

 

[BigDes]

Every British man shall be denied the privilege of queuing. All queues shall be eliminated.

Mother of God

 

[Fbh]

I know politics are a complex thing so candidates keeping all their promised is basically impossible.

But I really don't get how you can blatantly lie in campaign like this and face no legal consequences.

An orange juice says it has 1 Gram less of sugar than it actually has and all hell breaks loose.
Politicians blatantly lie in an referendum that's going to affect millions of people and it's like "lol, shit happens"

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I keep hearing this vanity project moniker thrown around a lot.

What do the people believing think it means?

The EU allows this collection of small countries to be on the same level as the United States and China.

How can the UK negotiate better trade deals than the EU?
It's like a grape being squashed by a watermelon.

To explain it extremely simply.

You know how our media hypes the living shit out of the English football team every time the world cup comes around?

And how people seem to believe that we should do amazing, basically just because we're England? I mean, were ENGLAND ffs. Of COURSE we can win!

The only time the reality sets in and we remember that being English doesn't make you the best, is when we're scraping through groups and finally ejected from the tournament with nothing to show for it.

It's kind of like that.

David Davis, Boris Johnson and Theresa May is our English football team, and brexit is the world cup.

Of COURSE were gonna win, were ENGLAND ffs.

And when someone attempts to explain in detail the intricacies of why its much more likely that we will lose based on statistics and facts, they're drowned out by chants of:

WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEY, COME OOON ENGLAND, COME OOOOON ENGLAND, COME OOON ENGLAND.

OF COURSE COUNTRIES WILL GIVE US A BETTER TRADE DEAL THAN WITH A TRADING BLOCK OF 26 OTHER COUNTRIES FORMING ONE OF THE LARGEST AND EASILY ACCESSIBLE TRADE DESTINATIONS I THE WORLD.

WE'RE ENGLAND FFS!

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I know it's pot calling the kettle black since I'm an american, but half you guys got duped.

I know misery likes company, but we shouldn't really compare the UK's stupidity to what happened with Trump.

Americans overwhelmingly voted for Clinton, it's the electoral system that screwed the American people. If the US had a FPTP system, she'd be President right now.

 

[hawk2025]

Few things are as reliable and predictable as the stupidity of starry-eyed fools fighting the neoliberalism strawman.

Shameful.


You got conned.

You can pretend to tie a little bow around your decision with a soundbite or a term you don't understand and label it whatever you want:

"Taking back our country"
"Changing direction"
"Fighting neoliberalism"



It's all the same shit-pie: You got conned, and now you are trying to make an omelette out of the egg on your face.

 

[BGBW]

If this wasn't real life, this would really be a top tier comedy. God damn.

It's literally why a lot of writers of political comedy have given up.

What's the point when real life will trump you every time?

 

[Pyramid head]

The bus doesn't actually imply the NHS will get 350mil a week though .

It does though, doesn't it? Heavily. You really would have to be a special kind of moron to not get the implication wouldn't you?

Besides, if the bus message was to vague for those special morons, the leave campaign had them covered.

They were a vital portion of the leave voter base afterall.

 

[SteveWD40]

With all the senior figures making statements like these right now, I can't help but feel the Gov't is floating the idea of a reversal of sorts and gauging reactions, remember only a few of the Torys actually want to leave.

I can't see an actual "fuck it were staying" position, but rather a slow creep away from the edge, with lots of talk about "long term interim positions" that essentially keep things as they are, without the EU having to put up with the shit our current govt give them.

Leave can say we left, but things tick over, no one is happy, but it's better than the vision IDS and co have of us masturbationg over a Union Jack while our currency is used for kindling and we hunt the poor for food.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

With all the senior figures making statements like these right now, I can't help but feel the Gov't is floating the idea of a reversal of sorts and gauging reactions, remember only a few of the Torys actually want to leave.

I can't see an actual "fuck it were staying" position, but rather a slow creep away from the edge, with lots of talk about "long term interim positions" that essentially keep things as they are, without the EU having to put up with the shit our current govt give them.

Leave can say we left, but things tick over, no one is happy, but it's better than the vision IDS and co have of us masturbationg over a Union Jack while our currency is used for kindling and we hunt the poor for food.

I doubt tjr EU would be okay with this.

 

[operon]

I doubt tjr EU would be okay with this.

I can see the EU being ok with this. Well lose our rebates and most op outs but it would solve everything and no country will ever try to leave

 

[Burai]

With all the senior figures making statements like these right now, I can't help but feel the Gov't is floating the idea of a reversal of sorts and gauging reactions, remember only a few of the Torys actually want to leave.

I can't see an actual "fuck it were staying" position, but rather a slow creep away from the edge, with lots of talk about "long term interim positions" that essentially keep things as they are, without the EU having to put up with the shit our current govt give them.

Leave can say we left, but things tick over, no one is happy, but it's better than the vision IDS and co have of us masturbationg over a Union Jack while our currency is used for kindling and we hunt the poor for food.

I think it's more like everyone getting their excuses in before the shit hits so they can say "I saw all this coming so you can still totally trust and vote for me". See also: Jeremy H*nt's "leaked" document.

They really, really were counting on a total wipe out of Labour at the GE. Now that's failed and because the government is so precarious, everyone's pretending to be humble.

 

[ultratruman]

Great job

 

[RedSparrows]

There is too much focus on equality, what really should matter is that the society is fair and everyone gets the same opportunities.

That is a form of equality, Ont ;D

'Equality' is consistently misrepresented, I feel, as 'everyone being exactly the same in all ways'. But there's equality of opportunity, equality of treatment, equality of consideration, etc. Marx's dictum of to each according to need, from each, etc etc, is by no means saying 'everyone must wear the same clothes', for instance, and that's Marx.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Why do you hope that? And why haven't you seen it yet?

Also, what's more brutal than being apart of the EU and following the advice of that leadership since 2008?

Maybe you've been run into the ground like Greece or after many years of being in crisis mode you're seeing some life in your economy like Portugal after doing the opposite of what you were told.

In any event, Britain should look to other countries who enjoy high living standards and are competitive without the EU set-up/worldview. They don't really need the burden to be powerful, wealthy, and happy.

So what you are saying is these governments have all the freedom to do as they want, eve if it goes against the wishes of the EU. So how come the narrative is the evil EU is forcing their rules on everyone?

Please name me those countries in Europe with a high standard of living outside of the EU. Hint: they don't really exist. Even Switzerland and Norway basically are part of it because it is a benefit to them.

 

[danowat]

Maybe something will happen, May appears to be a (faux?) populist who'll bend to which ever way the majority seem to be going, she'll do anything to keep a grasp on her job, so maybe if things really do swing (much) more in favour of the softest of soft brexits, or a complete u turn, maybe she change tack, the lady maybe for turning.

A part of me would like to see it just to see the wailing and nashing of teeth from hardline brexiters!

 

[SteveWD40]

I can see the EU being ok with this. Well lose our rebates and most op outs but it would solve everything and no country will ever try to leave

Yeah, on paper a long term interim should not exist, but this is unprecedented territory and the EU would much rather have the money / trade / freedoms than not.

 

[clarknova156]

It will take far, far langer to wash away the shit Trump has done, rebuild trust with USA's closest allies and Trump could be able to stack the supreme court for an entire generation (look at how there are still Reagen-era Supreme Court Justices on the job).

Brexit is even more catastrophic and destructive but Trump will be felt for decades.

Took Obama 8 years to wash away 8 years of Bush largely. Trump is so incompetent that even after 4 years a decent replacement could make up the difference.

The real problem facing Americans is mid term elections. Now those fuckers could fuck us for decades.

 

[ramparter]

The bus doesn't actually imply the NHS will get 350mil a week though .

So your brother/mother/lover whatever comes and say "I cancelled my PS4 Slim order and saved 300$, let's buy a Switch instead", you go to the store, you get the Switch, you expect them to pay and they are like "I never implied I would use they money I saved to buy the Switch"

 

[Yudoken]

Brexit in a nutshell.

 

[liquidtmd]

To explain it extremely simply.

You know how our media hypes the living shit out of the English football team every time the world cup comes around?

And how people seem to believe that we should do amazing, basically just because we're England? I mean, were ENGLAND ffs. Of COURSE we can win!

The only time the reality sets in and we remember that being English doesn't make you the best, is when we're scraping through groups and finally ejected from the tournament with nothing to show for it.

It's kind of like that.

David Davis, Boris Johnson and Theresa May is our English football team, and brexit is the world cup.

Of COURSE were gonna win, were ENGLAND ffs.

And when someone attempts to explain in detail the intricacies of why its much more likely that we will lose based on statistics and facts, they're drowned out by chants of:

WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEY, COME OOON ENGLAND, COME OOOOON ENGLAND, COME OOON ENGLAND.

OF COURSE COUNTRIES WILL GIVE US A BETTER TRADE DEAL THAN WITH A TRADING BLOCK OF 26 OTHER COUNTRIES FORMING ONE OF THE LARGEST AND EASILY ACCESSIBLE TRADE DESTINATIONS I THE WORLD.

WE'RE ENGLAND FFS!

'B-b-but we won it 51 years ago and we wrote a fairly good football anthem in Three Lions twenty odd years ago, IT'S GOTTA BE OUR TURN NEXT BRO BELIEVE!!!'

 

[Donnie]

Can't the UK do a revote or something?

Get like 60% pro-EU, kick out May and tell the EU it was all a big mistake.

How on earth could the public respect their right to vote if the government just keep doing revotes until things turn out the way they want? Of all the shit that's come from the referendum, lies and bullshit on both sides, the stupidest thing of all are people saying we should just do another vote because the result didn't go their way. You destroy peoples trust in democracy by doing shit like that.

 

[Acorn]

Tories are going full retro lmao

Using lines Osbourne used in 2010

 

[Jackpot]

How on earth could the public respect their right to vote if the government just keep doing revotes until things turn out the way they want? Of all the shit that's come from the referendum, lies and bullshit on both sides, the stupidest thing of all are people saying we should just do another vote because the result didn't go their way. You destroy peoples trust in democracy by doing shit like that.

Because there's been a marked change in the electorate's views. Duh.

"Allowing people to vote more will destroy their trust in democracy!"

 

[Walshicus]

How on earth could the public respect their right to vote if the government just keep doing revotes until things turn out the way they want? Of all the shit that's come from the referendum, lies and bullshit on both sides, the stupidest thing of all are people saying we should just do another vote because the result didn't go their way. You destroy peoples trust in democracy by doing shit like that.

This is why we've never had more than one election. Only fucking idiots change their minds when additional information comes to light, am I right?!

 

[ClosingADoor]

How on earth could the public respect their right to vote if the government just keep doing revotes until things turn out the way they want? Of all the shit that's come from the referendum, lies and bullshit on both sides, the stupidest thing of all are people saying we should just do another vote because the result didn't go their way. You destroy peoples trust in democracy by doing shit like that.

This is a major decision. It was a very close result. After the vote a lot of new details sunk in for people. So if the majority still wants it, that is fine. But why does it hurt to double check something that has an impact that last decades?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Maybe the UK wouldn't have such delusions of grandeur if they got rid of the royals.

 

[Donnie]

So lets have a vote on something, then a bit later if we think people may have changed their minds lets vote again? Then maybe a month later we'll try another vote in case things have changed again?

Should we vote in a government and then a month later do another vote in case people have changed their minds on a certain primeminister/president?

Democracy isn't improved by constant voting every other month, its simply devalued. People won't take there right to vote seriously if they know its just going to a revote anyway.

This is a major decision. It was a very close result. After the vote a lot of new details sunk in for people. So if the majority still wants it, that is fine. But why does it hurt to double check something that has an impact that last decades?

Well you make a fair argument, but where does it stop? If the next vote comes out 52% want to stay, how is it acceptable to stay with a result just as narrow as before?, another vote then until its more unanimous?

 

[ClosingADoor]

So lets have a vote on something, then a bit later if we think people may have changed their minds lets vote again? Then maybe a month later we'll try another vote in case things have changed again?

Should we vote in a government and then a month later do another vote in case people have changed their minds on a certain primeminister/president?

Democracy isn't improvement by constant voting ever other month ,its simply devalued. Honestly get your heads out of your arses. People won't take there right to vote seriously if they know its just going to a revote anyway.

A ton of things require multiple votes though. Over here if they want to change the constitution, it required both the old and 4 years later the new government to agree with a 2/3 majority for example.

Democracy is not just 50%+1 says this is OK, then we do that and can't do anything else.

-looks at the Dutch royal family-

We're still doing fine. I think shitty populistic media might be a bigger influence.

We could sent them a new Willem of Orange to replace their current royals. See if the country improves a bit.

 

[Carn82]

Maybe the UK wouldn't have such delusions of grandeur if they got rid of the royals.

-looks at the Dutch royal family-

We're still doing fine. I think shitty populistic media might be a bigger influence.

 

[BGBW]

Maybe the UK wouldn't have such delusions of grandeur if they got rid of the royals.

Sweden still has a royal family and they're always on the podium for what a country should be like.

 

[Donnie]

Because there's been a marked change in the electorate's views. Duh.

"Allowing people to vote more will destroy their trust in democracy!"

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Democracy isn't about how many times you can vote per year, that merely devalues the system. Plenty of people feel there vote doesn't count as it is, with pretty bad voting turn outs. Revoting on a issue that has already been decided will be seen simply as "We didn't like the result, go again" and the trust in the voting system will go further down the pan.