Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
*Ahem*
Lazy and unmeaningful you say...
Wow, what a douche... That was a sick burn!
Glad the Sony guy shushed him
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CNN reports on Next-Gen Used Games Policy #PS4NoDRM; IGN and Giantbomb remain silent
- Thread starter GuardianE
- Start date
Wow, what a douche... That was a sick burn!
Glad the Sony guy shushed him
Right here (aka the SEC).
Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193088/Partys_almost_over_for_GameStops_used_games_business.php
Like virtually every journalist ever?
i cant c it...RIGHT HERE (aka the SEC).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193088/Partys_almost_over_for_GameStops_used_games_business.php
I wish people would stop believing whatever suits their purposes.
BlastProcessing
Member
I would argue that second hand sales are right. If I can't resale something I don't actually own it. The concepts of Ownership and Property are the foundation of a capitalist system. This is the kind of morality that a kindergartner inherently knows is fair. If I sell you a candy bar. It isn't your candy bar anymore. You don't have a say about what I do with it. If I turn around and sell that candy bar for a profit you are not entitled to that money. This basic principal underpins the entire free market.
I find it funny that media companies fought for years to have their product defined as property. It's not a game its IP. But now they want to argue that it isn't really property, not always. It is property when it benefits them and not when it would benefit the consumer. A market dosen't react well to uncertainty, but they are going to charge ahead with a model where the consumer never really knows if what they are buying is a particle or a wave. It's crazy.
Beelzeboss
Member
I really wish these movements wouldn't resort to calling out people that don't support them.
It just seems so petty.
It just seems so petty.
Omnistalgic
Member
Hmm...if used games are such an issue, why doesn't Sony/MS just make digital downloads more appealing? Say much much quicker installs/download (which they are already doing) and better incentives for buying digital like future b/c goals, discounts, trading between friends like current PSN titles, and really really really huge HDD or even some way to store games on cloud servers for future use.
Wouldn't that kinda make everyone happy?
I mean there's been developers say they are happy with certain titles on Vita which has a very small world wide user base. Isn't easy digital the way we should be going? Countries without strong internet would likely benefit a lot more from hard copies of games, and the current system should be kept in place for them.
I don't get why this is complicated...
Wouldn't that kinda make everyone happy?
I mean there's been developers say they are happy with certain titles on Vita which has a very small world wide user base. Isn't easy digital the way we should be going? Countries without strong internet would likely benefit a lot more from hard copies of games, and the current system should be kept in place for them.
I don't get why this is complicated...
jediyoshi
Member
He also points out the shitty, obvious side effects of what it entails. It's a pragmatic stance, it's hand in hand with people's doom and gloom scenario, just taken to its conclusion.
BronsonLee
Member
It's very likely that Jeff knew about the DRM stuff since like January, along with Sony's.
Games media and games industry are going to, typically, be on the same side, unless we are talking about things that make a game literally worse(bad DRM practices, crappy gameplay, and ect). A lot of these guys are friends with developers, who believe the lines publishers have told them, that 2nd hand sales is forgone growth(just because they say so). They have no reason to have a different opinion then the game industry, as a whole, they don't even consume games like the people who go to their sites.
You guys are expecting too much from most of them. Ironically, the only website that really took MS to task for this crap was Kotaku. The interests of the games media and game industry are near one and the same. Lets ignore the fact that getting rid of the 2nd hand market isnt forgone growth, lets assume it is; we as consumers have no vested interest in going along with these companies even still. The game industry doesn't deserve to exist, specially as it exists now. The idea that, since the perception to the industry is that the 2nd hand market is forgone growth, consumers should be ok with it, is just insane(even if what they said is true).
People like TB, giantbomb, IGN, and any other website or game company that relies on the the game industry more then the consumer, in terms of giving them a pay-check clearly will lean on the side of the industry over the consumer. We really dont have a games journalism industry, we have a few game journalists, but that distinction is significant. There really isnt a consumer advocacy website/journalism on the gamers side. Unfortunately the game industry isnt built like the tech industry where there are tons of sites looking out for the consumer. IMO, though, people really need to get out of the mindset that the game industry "deserves" to exist simply because people enjoy it. It only exists in that it fills a demand, and that demand should be fought for on what is best for the consumer(specially if you claim to be the press) not industry. The industry though has the games media fully trained to wait until they feed them the information they want, and then it gets reported to us. They have no real motivation to do otherwise, becuae their income is a derivative of the industries profits, not our wants.
You guys are expecting too much from most of them. Ironically, the only website that really took MS to task for this crap was Kotaku. The interests of the games media and game industry are near one and the same. Lets ignore the fact that getting rid of the 2nd hand market isnt forgone growth, lets assume it is; we as consumers have no vested interest in going along with these companies even still. The game industry doesn't deserve to exist, specially as it exists now. The idea that, since the perception to the industry is that the 2nd hand market is forgone growth, consumers should be ok with it, is just insane(even if what they said is true).
People like TB, giantbomb, IGN, and any other website or game company that relies on the the game industry more then the consumer, in terms of giving them a pay-check clearly will lean on the side of the industry over the consumer. We really dont have a games journalism industry, we have a few game journalists, but that distinction is significant. There really isnt a consumer advocacy website/journalism on the gamers side. Unfortunately the game industry isnt built like the tech industry where there are tons of sites looking out for the consumer. IMO, though, people really need to get out of the mindset that the game industry "deserves" to exist simply because people enjoy it. It only exists in that it fills a demand, and that demand should be fought for on what is best for the consumer(specially if you claim to be the press) not industry. The industry though has the games media fully trained to wait until they feed them the information they want, and then it gets reported to us. They have no real motivation to do otherwise, becuae their income is a derivative of the industries profits, not our wants.
derExperte
Member
Problem is that his head is so far up his own ass that he probably hasn't even realized he got told.
Still like his WTFs and the attention he brings to small indie titles so he's kinda useful.
I would be okay with just even reporting. Sometimes when I hear people make excuses for mega corporations, I think they are industry advocates.
I also don't think GiantBomb has been silent, I just think they have made too many excuses that rely on the notion that "business being business" is an excuse worthy of justify encroachment on consumer rights.
I'm glad that those reporting on the movement going on have done so. I like having amplifiers (outlets) working for gamers rather than the industry. The normal atmosphere is PR gets the outlets to stick to their message and plan (air support), while ad agencies inundate consumers with positive truths and misleading advertisements that do nothing other than inspire feelings of consumptions within its audience.
UncleSporky
Member
What is this about? Link to post?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
These two things have nothing to do with each other and I don't know why you think they would. Bad logic.
Actual SEC filings:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193088/Partys_almost_over_for_GameStops_used_games_business.php
The rest of your arguments are spurious as well.
Or lets look at the 10k:
"Consolidated net income (loss) attributable to GameStop Corp.
2012 - (269.7)
2011 - 339.9
2010 - 408.0
2009 - 377.3
2008 - 398.3"
Figures in millions of dollars.
Also this idea that GameStop make over $1bn in profit from used products is BS. They make that in gross profit which is not exactly money in the bank. Staff, rent, bills, rates, taxes, all of this shit needs to be paid.
great post. props to you sir. if there wasnt a market for it, it wouldnt exist. there is a risk to pre owned as well. just because you bought it in, it doesnt guarantee that that used copy will sell. it might hve to be heavily discounted first.
23,000+ tweets, 190 articles.
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01854.htm
This movement doesn't concern you then, so butt out.
Pubs are lobbying for it, we're lobbying against it.
Get out.
It's cute that you make those statements as if they're proven facts.
So, what's with these juniors?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60276093&postcount=352
Fried Food
Banned
Giantbomb talked about it on the podcast
BlastProcessing
Member
These two things have nothing to do with each other and I don't know why you think they would. Bad logic.
Actual SEC filings:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193088/Partys_almost_over_for_GameStops_used_games_business.php
The rest of your arguments are spurious as well.
Are you arguing that a companies profits don't effect its valuation? Companies with a -2.21 EPS don't tend to do so well.
Also that graph proves my point right? Look at their bottom line. Retail is a low margin business and Gamestop is not raking in profits. Their most profitable year of the last 4 was 2012 when they made a whopping 663 million dollars.
BlastProcessing
Member
If publishers wanted Gamestop dead they could just lower Digital Download prices and offer an attractive Digital trade in program.
Instead Publishers want to eat their cake, eat Gamestop's cake, and still have both cakes too.
What is in place won't change because of twitter. Only how those companies handle PR.
Edit: Listening to this bombcast now. Jeff is now saying how the kinect watches you is a legitimate concern. How the fuck is this being a shill?
jediyoshi
Member
So if they do write something negative involving a publisher, we can rule them out of the money hat, right? Who does that leave left?
Max O Power
Neo Member
These giantbomb discussions are crazy. Giantbomb might be my favorite site, but it's a fucking video blog. Do you expect everybody with a youtube channel to report on this too?
And Patrick isn't a news guy, he's a feature guy. All of his long format stuff on GB has been features about developers and games, the "Scoops" nickname is clearly ironic. That said, he did talk about getting back into news now that he is moving to Chicago, and won't spend as much time with in front of the camera or doing quick looks.
And Patrick isn't a news guy, he's a feature guy. All of his long format stuff on GB has been features about developers and games, the "Scoops" nickname is clearly ironic. That said, he did talk about getting back into news now that he is moving to Chicago, and won't spend as much time with in front of the camera or doing quick looks.
*snip*
So, what's with these juniors?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60276093&postcount=352
Kudos for posting this. I kept seeing posts about a potential topic by bishoptl in various threads, and was curious about the details.
Oh please let this happen. It would be glorious.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
*Ahem*
Lazy and unmeaningful you say...
It does depend rather heavily on the people responding not lying though their teeth.
JesseEwiak
Member
Indeed. You have an absolute right to sell, give away, or let other people borrow your disc. But, Sony or Microsoft or Valve have a right to say, "if you want to access our architechture, pay the toll." That statement you've cut 'n' pasted doesn't imply you have an absolute right to buy and sell anything with no strings attached.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
And they get their money, when they sell the game originally. After that they have zero right to money made my people selling the game they have bough. It's their now, they can do what they want with it. Gamestop rebuys the game, and resells it. That's their business, and they are deserving of all profits from that sale.
I believed him. I guess it's time for me to eat crow.
You know, the more I think about this, after how the SimCity crap went down, it is no surprise that most of the industry has been sheepish with the potential DRM news stories. Even when the SimCity always on crap went down, only RPS and a select few actually though the problem was the DRM, most thought the problem was it just wasnt done well.
Doctor Decimate
Member
WHAT NO GIANT BOMB AND IGN ARTICLES?!?!
are we really pretending that's a big deal?
are we really pretending that's a big deal?
JesseEwiak
Member
To be frank, it's the difference between the reaction of a grown man with sources, a history in the industry, and a job versus the reaction of a lot of people heavily invested in a niche culture.
Nothing against the people involved in the grassroots movement, but this whole situation reminds me of people who are upset with Obama because he hasn't magically ended the recession, stopped all military action by the US, and passed single payer health care with the force of his will while people who have actually worked in politics try to explain the situation to a bunch of the more fringe people at an Occupy protest.
Sure, but when you go that route, imo, you lose any "industry care" consumers ever had about devs. When the end result is about you and not the consumer, and what you are taking away only hurts the consumer there is no reason to hope the industry as we know it survives, since its goal isnt to serve the consumer, with this act. I guess we will see if the console industry has any impact on these issues, but I know my money isn't on market expansion.
Sorry no, it applies to the content of the disc as well. Learn some reading comprehension.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
I understand the concern of IGN ignoring the story, but I don't think GB actually gets as much traffic on-site as they'd like. The Bombcast is the main draw of that site.
But it's because if their size and you would like to think they of all outlets would be able to take publishers to task and push for answers. It's a clear partnership with when and how a game is revealed. The publishers need they too in a small way.
TheLaughingStock
Member
http://i.imgur.com/cqkcU75.png
http://i.imgur.com/b8dXflF.png
*Ahem*
Lazy and unmeaningful you say...
Holy shit that's a lot of salt.
JesseEwiak
Member
98% of consumers couldn't pick a dev out of a lineup. The 2% of us who know what a Insomniac or a Double Fine is don't make or break a game. So, I can see the belief that sense there is no loyalty to devs from the vast majority of consumers as they'll happily buy a game thats been out for about two weeks for $55 instead of $60, why should they care about the supposed rights of the consumer? The difference between used games and used cars/DVD's/etc. is that games are in this sweet spot where there's evidence that used games are hurting the industry (YMMV) and the price point of new versus used is enough that is could impact a buying decision, unlike a new vs used DVD.
MomoPufflet
Member
I was skeptical that the hashtag campaign would do anything, but I don't get how you can continue to objectively dismiss the sheer number of articles written specifically about it. Not to mention the twitter messages from Sony (and some MS) higher-ups specifically referencing it. If that isn't traction I guess don't know what traction is.
BlastProcessing
Member
If only publishers had control over their own prices!
It really doesn't matter what devs think about whether or not used games are hurting the industry, if the methods they employ stomp on the rights of consumers as I quoted above then they deserve all the shit thrown at them. You want people to buy new? Give them incentive to buy new, not take away their ability to buy, resell and trade used copies. That's just fucking greedy.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
We all knew IGN were nothing but PR pawns, but GiantBomb jumping the shark is just sad.
Well everything they tried this gen to do that (DLC keys in new copies, online passes etc) was bitched at like the world was ending.
find the missing vital part
"The company has issued conflicting statements about whether installing a game on a second console would require a fee, or whether doing so would lock the game on the original console.
The company's latest statement still leaves questions.
We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One, but we have confirmed that we designed it to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail," the company said, with no elaboration, in a statement to CNN. "Beyond that we haven't confirmed any specific scenarios."
we designed it to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail,"
trade in and resell games at retail,"
retail,"
this more or less confirms that only selected retail stores will be able to activate and deactivate games a la the rumours from MCV.
I hope MS will be comfortable with being audited by the European Commission (again)
yes, IGN makes me sick whenever they talk about used games. They are wined and dined by their friends in the industry. Off course they want that their friends they have among the game developers should get more money and not lose their jobs.
"The company has issued conflicting statements about whether installing a game on a second console would require a fee, or whether doing so would lock the game on the original console.
The company's latest statement still leaves questions.
We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One, but we have confirmed that we designed it to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail," the company said, with no elaboration, in a statement to CNN. "Beyond that we haven't confirmed any specific scenarios."
we designed it to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail,"
trade in and resell games at retail,"
retail,"
this more or less confirms that only selected retail stores will be able to activate and deactivate games a la the rumours from MCV.
I hope MS will be comfortable with being audited by the European Commission (again)
yes, IGN makes me sick whenever they talk about used games. They are wined and dined by their friends in the industry. Off course they want that their friends they have among the game developers should get more money and not lose their jobs.