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[MisterAnderson]

Is EA really going to give me a reason to boycott them instead of Activision? I have been routing for BF3 to take on MW3 this fall and have been incredibly excited to get my hands on it. But if BF3 is not on Steam, no sale.

 

[Stallion Free]

I tried to figure out how EA would think there way through this and my brain broke.

 

[domlolz]

Digital distribution sucks anyways.

wrong-o!

 

[GJS]

Most of the pc games I recently bought were from steam sales.
Knowing EA I can imagine they'll never do any sales.

EA already do sales.

 

[jaundicejuice]

EA is OBVIOUSLY going to use BF3, Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars Old Republic as exclusive, killer-apps for their download service.

Why do you think Valve trojan-horsed Steam into every copy of Half-Life 2 when it was still an early piece of shit? Because they knew the only way to get the snowball rolling was to force people onto the service with a game they wanted.

It's not an unfair or unintelligent business practice. You use what you have (anticipated games) to get what you want (users on your service).

I disagree, I think it is an unintelligent business decision and not the first that EA has made in regards to Steam and, directly, Steam customers. This pissing contest EA have decided to get into with Valve by releasing games on all DD services BUT Steam until some indeterminate time later, by pulling pre-order shenanigans excluding Steam for multiple games now, by removing games from Steam they damage their own business because they alienate existing customers and miss out on potential customers.

If the people behind the Origin initiative had two brain cells to rub together they would sell all of their games day and date with the same content on all DD services to use them all as a vector for games bundled with Origin. They would offer great content at great prices on all DD services, with the best deals saved for Origin. Microsoft has figured this out, sort of. The latest sad attempt at re-launching Games For Windows Live is available for purchase through Steam.

There's some sketchy language in Origin's Terms Of Service, I'm sure people could go digging through Steam's TOS and find parallel's but the difference is this, I've been using Steam since it first launched (2003? 2004? I'm trying to remember when Day of Defeat switched over from the WON servers to Steam), the service has done nothing but grow and improve. Steam gradually over the years has, through that quality service, changed my attitude toward digital distribution. Iwent from owning a few games from Valve's catalogue to owning over 150 games on Steam. In short, I trust Valve. They've demonstrated themselves to be a pro-consumer company and they've done a lot of good for PC gaming.

EA on the other hand I have nothing but well-founded mistrust for. They're one of the only companies that make me buy physical media still, at a significant discount because their games tend to come bundled with terrible, anti-consumer drm. I've tied one of those games, Darkspore, to my EADM/Origin account. I eagerly await the day they shut that games servers down and I cannot even play the single player campaign because you have to access that through an online lobby and I imagine that will be soon given how badly the game is doing. If EA ran the servers for Counter-Strike 1.6, those wouldn't be online anymore, they wouldn't patch and continue to support the game.

It would take EA nearly a decade of continued and improved service to get me to trust them and Origin the way I do Valve and Steam, but I doubt it'll take very long for EA to do something stupid and/or horrendous. It's EA. As someone else posted earlier, shareholders uber alles.

 

[scorpscarx]

I tried to figure out how EA would think there way through this and my brain broke.

Yeah, it's like they wan't future Origin exclusives to completely flop on PC.

 

[coopolon]

So the simple fact that people like using the one largest most reliable service with the best sales and the best client as their sole service/client to deal with instead of having several services/clients to have to deal with to manage a library that might span hundreds of titles? That is absurd? I have a hard time understanding why the factor of simple ease of use with the best client around has failed to even be acknowledged by you to begin with.

In my person experience the ease of use argument is no longer true.When using Impulse, Origin, and GoG I find they all offer experiences that rival Steam's (and improve on it in some places.) And D2D isn't that far behind.

And it also doesn't even have the best sales anymore. Hell, D2D has their own sales, and they'll price match any Steam sale on top of that.

Certainly the one that has the most features though (screen shots, cloud saves, community features, time tracking when it works, etc). And obviously the strongest history, and because of that history it's where a lot of people are already invested.

Edit: Actually, I misunderstood the D2D price matching. They don't price match sales, only regular prices, which renders it useless.

 

[X05]

They can't even place me in the proper region pricing games to me in Euros instead of Dollars and you expect me to have an ounce of faith in their service rivaling steam?

This, the Origin store claims I'm in Spain (I'm not) and doesn't let me change the region :/

 

[Stallion Free]

Yeah, it's like they wan't future Origin exclusives to completely flop on PC.

They want an excuse not to make PC games anymore. Kinda like Capcom who sets us up for failure too.

 

[Hylian7]

So I haven't seen this explained, or maybe I missed it, but what happens to people that already own Crysis 2 on Steam? Can they still redownload it?

Also if this was really pulled because they don't like Steam, then I'm probably not buying Mass Effect 3. There comes a time when enough is enough.

 

[szaromir]

So the simple fact that people like using the one largest most reliable service with the best sales and the best client as their sole service/client to deal with instead of having several services/clients to have to deal with to manage a library that might span hundreds of titles? That is absurd? I have a hard time understanding why the factor of simple ease of use with the best client around has failed to even be acknowledged by you to begin with.

It's OK if you like all of that. It's also OK if EA don't want to offer their games there. That's my point. If your first criterion of buying a game is if it's available on Steam, then maybe you should reconsider your hobby.

Steam doesnt have a monopoly and if they do, its almost entirely because people like the service and trust Valve. Valve had to work to get to where they are and they did it in a ridiculously pro consumer fashion. Sorry if I dont have faith in EA.

They still have DRM and are (in most cases) twice as expensive as retail. Not exactly reasons to scream of joy.

 

[cicero]

Man, it was basically like HL2 shipped with an STD in the box. People went nuclear.

Part of the reason I don't care is that it will really force EA to figure out how to make their service not suck on the quick. DD services have come a long way so I think the time frame EA has to figure this out successfully has become dramatically smaller.

And yet EA had all this time to figure out the basic things that Steam did, like not expiring downloads or requiring extra money for "download insurance", and they failed to do it. Now we are supposed to simply take it on faith that they will "figure out how to make their service not suck on the quick" because they...have to?

It took years for me to accept Steam, I doubt I will receive EA in the same way, even if they match Steam's turnaround, and that simply because I don't want to have to deal with numerous clients to manage my purchases, and because I have even less faith in EA than I ever did in Valve after the HL2 debacle.

 

[HK-47]

Actually, the majority of games are either equivalent or overpriced on Steam compared to retail. Steam just has fantastic sales, but the other 99% of the time Steam is the worst place to buy a game.

Which is why people wait for sales...like any smart person waits for Amazon or bomba sales on retail shit.

And its like that on any DD service, since the publishers control the prices, not the service provider.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They still have DRM and are (in most cases) twice as expensive as retail. Not exactly reasons to scream of joy.

To be clear, your current argument is that Steam is, in most cases, twice as expensive as retail.

 

[FStop7]

Dragon Age: Origins now only on Origin. An Original.

Spoiler

No sales tax in Oregon.

 

[LCGeek]

EA is really workin to ensure I don't buy this game. I loved the beta but not for 60. Not only that things got worse especially in commands useable and the netcode is still garbage. Way to bungle this ea and crytek all the sales that were in the bag are going with crap like this. Steam would've made sure the sales whore were around to pick up at times with this I'm out.

Maybe next gen when I find this stuff or the next engine crap in the used bin barrel I will pickup my pc money isn't going support this crap.

 

[szaromir]

To be clear, your current argument is that Steam is, in most cases, twice as expensive as retail.

My argument is that EA not offering their game is not anticonsumer as people suggest, at least not more than anything Valve is doing. I'm just saying that Steam isn't the ultimate app that some evil people want to destroy just for the sake of it.

As for pricing, it's nottoo important, they can offer €200 games as far as I'm concerned. It's other people who constantly use the "best sales" and "best prices" argument.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So I haven't seen this explained, or maybe I missed it, but what happens to people that already own Crysis 2 on Steam? Can they still redownload it?

This. Wtf? Can I never redownload Crysis 2 ever again if I get a new PC without buying it again on Origin? Is this grounds to sue EA's ass? Cause if that's the case I might.

 

[Smash88]

Welp, there goes my purchase of Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, and Mass Effect 3, if they do decide to omit the latter two from Steam.

 

[Dmented]

Valve has fanboys because they have fucking earned it. They make the best games and have the best download service with the best prices and the best features.

Why am I supposed to dislike them exactly?

I guess were not supposed to be fanboys of companies that give a shit.
We should all just hug on Kotick's nuts instead. Right?

 

[Salazar]

app that some evil people want to destroy just for the sake of it.

This caricature is largely of your own invention.

 

[venne]

And yet EA had all this time to figure out the basic things that Steam did, like not expiring downloads or requiring extra money for "download insurance", and they failed to do it. Now we are supposed to simply take it on faith that they will "figure out how to make their service not suck on the quick" because they...have to?

It took years for me to accept Steam, I doubt I will receive EA in the same way, even if they match Steam's turnaround, and that simply because I don't want to have to deal with numerous clients to manage my purchases, and because I have even less faith in EA than I ever did in Valve after the HL2 debacle.

Team Fortress 2 has been my wake up call to not take any of these clowns seriously. Valve made my favorite game a marketing sandbox. I'd be really impressed if EA did something worse.

 

[HK-47]

It's OK if you like all of that. It's also OK if EA don't want to offer their games there. That's my point. If your first criterion of buying a game is if it's available on Steam, then maybe you should reconsider your hobby.

They still have DRM and are (in most cases) twice as expensive as retail. Not exactly reasons to scream of joy.

Which is why you wait for sales if you dont buy at launch. And steam is the most beign DRM I know of and comes packaged with tons of features that are beneficial to me. Otherwise you can buy retail and then use the steam overlay. If you can tell me what EA is going to do to make its better than Steam or force Steam to improve (which it constantly does anyways, much like it still has ridiculous sales despite supposedly being a monopoly and thats so bad for us cause of some vague bullshit about competition) then I'll be impressed.

 

[aeolist]

My argument is that EA not offering their game is not anticonsumer as people suggest, at least not more than anything Valve is doing. I'm just saying that Steam isn't the ultimate app that some evil people want to destroy just for the sake of it.

You're setting up a strawman here because nobody is arguing that.

EA is publicly owned and responsible to shareholders which means that they have a very very long history of making anti-consumer decisions that make people wary of tying their game purchases to a download service they control totally (especially if they make the retail copies and downloads from other services require Origin which seems likely). Steam on the other hand has a long and well-deserved reputation for responding quickly and positively to their customers and make decisions that largely benefit them.

I don't think being upset at this is a crazy position to hold.

 

[Mrbob]

EA tried to bury PC gaming 5 years ago with all other major publishers. Valve stuck with it through the bad times and prospered. Now have continued to do so now that PC gaming is becoming hot shizz while Steam is maintaining a high level of excellence.

Now EA is singling out Steam because Valve are the king of the mountain. Pathetic move by EA which reeks of jealousy. Just another case of EA trying to stick it to Steam, yet it really doesn't matter. They won't stop the Steam train from moving. Only thing this hurts is EAs bottom line.

 

[Gaogaogao]

do they really still not have a dx11 patch? and they pulled the game from steam? fuck this game.

 

[sflufan]

This. Wtf? Can I never redownload Crysis 2 ever again if I get a new PC without buying it again on Origin? Is this grounds to sue EA's ass? Cause if that's the case I might.

I'm 100% certain that you will be able to download Crysis 2 from Valve's content servers. Just because the game isn't in the store doesn't mean that it's not on the content servers.

 

[domlolz]

ea isn't getting my bitcoins anymore!

 

[Stumpokapow]

As for pricing, it's nottoo important, they can offer €200 games as far as I'm concerned. It's other people who constantly use the "best sales" and "best prices" argument.

To be clear, your argument here is that when people suggest they pay less for games on Steam than elsewhere, they are incorrect, and they are actually paying in "most" cases "double" what they would be if they bought retail.

 

[coopolon]

Which is why you wait for sales if you dont buy at launch. And steam is the most beign DRM I know of and comes packaged with tons of features that are beneficial to me. Otherwise you can buy retail and then use the steam overlay. If you can tell me what EA is going to do to make its better than Steam or force Steam to improve (which it constantly does anyways, much like it still has ridiculous sales despite supposedly being a monopoly and thats so bad for us cause of some vague bullshit about competition) then I'll be impressed.

The ability to run games totally independent of the client is a valuable feature that I appreciate. The obvious caveat is the games have their own DRM, but for me personally I prefer one time online activations than always having to have a client running.

 

[Acosta]

In my person experience the ease of use argument is no longer true.When using Impulse, Origin, and GoG I find they all offer experiences that rival Steam's (and improve on it in some places.) And D2D isn't that far behind.

What experiences? None of those services offer anything extra (and please, don't tell me me "no client" is a feature.)

And it also doesn't even have the best sales anymore. Hell, D2D has their own sales, and they'll price match any Steam sale on top of that.

This is simply untrue, I check Impulse, GG and D2D sales frequently and they don't match the big ones from Steam, at all.

Certainly the one that has the most features though (screen shots, cloud saves, community features, time tracking when it works, etc). And obviously the strongest history, and because of that history it's where a lot of people are already invested.

Of course, it´s all about the "history", but all those features, having an established community and the trust in a service are meaningless. It´s just about "personal investment."

Crazy thought, maybe people value those features, even if you don't.

 

[Wallach]

And yet EA had all this time to figure out the basic things that Steam did, like not expiring downloads or requiring extra money for "download insurance", and they failed to do it. Now we are supposed to simply take it on faith that they will "figure out how to make their service not suck on the quick" because they...have to?

It took years for me to accept Steam, I doubt I will receive EA in the same way, even if they match Steam's turnaround, and that simply because I don't want to have to deal with numerous clients to manage my purchases, and because I have even less faith in EA than I ever did in Valve after the HL2 debacle.

Have faith? Fuck no. The only thing you should have faith in is that the market is going to force them to figure out what sucks about their service even faster than it would have five years ago. There's a clear standard now and a handful of exclusive titles is not going to rock the boat much. If they actually care about Origin being a competitor to the likes of D2D/Steam/Amazon they'll take the steps to fix those flaws very quickly and we'll see where it goes. If not, they basically gave a fancy name to their EA Download Manager and we're mostly back where we started, except EA's game will have sold worse in the interim.

 

[Josh7289]

So instead of trying to convert customers to their new service by actually working hard to make it better, they're just going to force everyone who wants their games digitally into their own service...

I'm no expert but last I checked this kind of monopolistic behavior usually doesn't fly too well with consumers.

 

[bangai-o]

this is ridiculous.

Spoiler

the Steam fanboys i mean.

 

[szaromir]

Which is why you wait for sales if you dont buy at launch. And steam is the most beign DRM I know of and comes packaged with tons of features that are beneficial to me. Otherwise you can buy retail and then use the steam overlay. If you can tell me what EA is going to do to make its better than Steam or force Steam to improve (which it constantly does anyways, much like it still has ridiculous sales despite supposedly being a monopoly and thats so bad for us cause of some vague bullshit about competition)

I'd prefer if Steam got rid of any DRM. Pirates break pretty much any DRM on day one, I'm stuck with longer booting times.
Steam doesn't have to do anything. They're the content creators and it's up to them where they offer said content for sale. Valve doesn't offer their games on GOG where I could buy themDRM free, but I understand it and accept it. I consider the argument "no Steam no sale" hillarious as it suggests you're more interested in collecting stuff on your Steam account more than in playing the games themselves.

To be clear, your argument here is that when people suggest they pay less for games on Steam than elsewhere, they are incorrect, and they are actually paying in "most" cases "double" what they would be if they bought retail.

Well, that is true, at least where I leave.

 

[scorpscarx]

, but for me personally I prefer one time online activations than always having to have a client running.

I valued that five years ago, but I love Steam as a client now, it's my favorite app on my PC in fact.

 

[HK-47]

The ability to run games totally independent of the client is a valuable feature that appreciate. The obvious caveat is the games have their own DRM, but for me personally I prefer one time online activations than always having to have a client running.

Why? Is your comp so in need of processing power that you cant? Are the unified community and great feature set not worth it?

 

[x3sphere]

If BF3 is Origin exclusive I'll be skipping it, sorry DICE I've invested a lot in Steam and that's where I plan on staying. Juggling a bunch of different clients does not appeal to me.

 

[venne]

So instead of trying to convert customers to their new service by actually working hard to make it better, they're just going to force everyone who wants their games digitally into their own service...

I'm no expert but last I checked this kind of monopolistic behavior usually doesn't fly too well with consumers.

Isn't securing exclusive content a way to make your platform better?

 

[Mrbob]

Have faith? Fuck no. The only thing you should have faith in is that the market is going to force them to figure out what sucks about their service even faster than it would have five years ago. There's a clear standard now and a handful of exclusive titles is not going to rock the boat much. If they actually care about Origin being a competitor to the likes of D2D/Steam/Amazon they'll take the steps to fix those flaws very quickly and we'll see where it goes. If not, they basically gave a fancy name to their EA Download Manager and we're mostly back where we started, except EA's game will have sold worse in the interim.

Indeed. Steam may have started out as a service for Valve games, but it has expanded way beyond this reach. Steam is a social network for PC gamers. There is no need for Origin to exist at all, other than fragmentation in the market. Not worried though as EA is going to learn a hard lesson that they don't offer a real incentive for PC gamers to leave their friends on Steam.

 

[coopolon]

What experiences? None of those services offer anything extra (and please, don't tell me me "no client" is a feature.)

No client is a feature. I want to be able to run the games when I want, where I want, how I want and I don't want to ahve to ask permission every time I want to launch the game. I also want to be able to be playing a game I bought on one machine while my wife plays a game I bought on another machine at the same time without having to make sure everything is activated and set up before hand.

And when I consider "ease of use", I think about how many obstacles I have to get over to get the game running correctly. GoG has everyone beat by a mile. Impulse, Steam, and Origin are identical.

This is simply untrue, I check Impulse, GG and D2D sales frequently and they don't match the big ones from Steam, at all.

Well, I don't have a spreadsheet comparing all the prices, but I always buy games wherever they are cheapest, and this year my money has been spread out almost exactly evenly throughout the different platforms. So I guess for the games I buy the sales are pretty even. Steam definitely has the best seasonal sales though.

Crazy thought, maybe people value those features, even if you don't.

Of course, I said Steam has by far the best features. Especially community wise with their profile pages, achievements, etc. It'd be folly to argue otherwise.

Why? Is your comp so in need of processing power that you cant? Are the unified community and great feature set not worth it?

My wife and I play games a lot at the same time, and with Steam if one of us decides we want to dl a new game the other person gets booted. Or if we forgot to have Steam automatically go into offline mode before starting it up it causes problems. It's not a deal breaker by any means, but it's inconvenient.

The community features are pretty great, but I'd say only about 20% of my gaming is multiplayer, so while most of that I do on Steam because of their superior community features, for the rest I couldn't care less about the community features.

 

[venne]

If BF3 is Origin exclusive I'll be skipping it, sorry DICE I've invested a lot in Steam and that's where I plan on staying. Juggling a bunch of different clients does not appeal to me.

Did know you can add non-Steam games to your steam library?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

To be clear, your argument here is that when people suggest they pay less for games on Steam than elsewhere, they are incorrect, and they are actually paying in "most" cases "double" what they would be if they bought retail.

If so, he's fucking crazy. Don't try and argue with a crazy person. It'll make you crazy.

 

[scorpscarx]

Venne I don't get your angle other than the fact that your stating the obvious. I mean...

 

[Goon Boon]

The company that made getting banned on a forum account lose access to all your games and dlc on your main account is not someone I trust with exclusive access to any library of games I'm interested in. GFWL, EA, and all these other motherfuckers need to figure it out - We want unlimited downloads for as long as your service is up (and a patch to make your game playable without it if it fails), with no phone home constant internet connections and with sales on par with retail and steam.

 

[Josh7289]

Isn't securing exclusive content a way to make your platform better?

In a world without entrenched consumer interests and the fanboy video game culture, maybe.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

I tried to figure out how EA would think there way through this and my brain broke.

If I'm EA, most of my revenue is generated through console sales at this point. So I'm thinking, well I do have a couple of strong PC IP's why not take my lumps now, even if it means lost sales initially and try to take on Steam, it might take a few years, but maybe, just maybe, I can squeeze out 25 to 30 percent market share down the line in a decade or so. Their only other option is to continue to let Valve run unchecked and once they have the entire market cornered, they can make any demands they want.

It might be a pipe-dream, but peoples loyalty does have a tendency to change over time, especially in video game land, and if it's a failed experiment, then they can still bend the knee to Valve and we all win, or lose by Gabe's whims.

Also for people talking about DRM, even it was on Steam, you'd still have the 3rd party DRM on top of Steam's.

 

[HK-47]

I'd prefer if Steam got rid of any DRM. Pirates break pretty much any DRM on day one, I'm stuck with longer booting times.
Steam doesn't have to do anything. They're the content creators and it's up to them where they offer said content for sale. Valve doesn't offer their games on GOG where I could buy themDRM free, but I understand it and accept it. I consider the argument "no Steam no sale" hillarious as it suggests you're more interested in collecting stuff on your Steam account more than in playing the games themselves.


Well, that is true, at least where I leave.

No it tell you that the other services arent good enough for me to bother with 5 different websites and clients. GOG is its own niche and they do actually offer some pluses over steam like drm free and constant updates to make the games run on modern os. but they also dont have things like chat, the overlay, or the wide selection steam has. They also do things that I like Valve for like free dlc and good game support.

Also I cant believe you have much of an increased boot time using steam. My shitty laptop doesnt have the problems you seem to have.

Also while drm free is nice, Valve would never get it. Publishers are so afraid of piracy they would avoid the service. Its much easier when everything you sell is 10 year old games at 10 bucks a pop.

 

[cicero]

EA already do sales.

They only do sales because Steam has made that a current standard that people have come to expect.

Steam gradually over the years has, through that quality service, changed my attitude toward digital distribution. Iwent from owning a few games from Valve's catalogue to owning over 150 games on Steam. In short, I trust Valve. They've demonstrated themselves to be a pro-consumer company and they've done a lot of good for PC gaming.

EA on the other hand I have nothing but well-founded mistrust for. They're one of the only companies that make me buy physical media still, at a significant discount because their games tend to come bundled with terrible, anti-consumer drm. I've tied one of those games, Darkspore, to my EADM/Origin account. I eagerly await the day they shut that games servers down and I cannot even play the single player campaign because you have to access that through an online lobby and I imagine that will be soon given how badly the game is doing. If EA ran the servers for Counter-Strike 1.6, those wouldn't be online anymore, they wouldn't patch and continue to support the game.

It would take EA nearly a decade of continued and improved service to get me to trust them and Origin the way I do Valve and Steam, but I doubt it'll take very long for EA to do something stupid and/or horrendous. It's EA. As someone else posted earlier, shareholders uber alles.

I had the same kind of experience with Valve, went from very steadfast anti-Steam and distrust of Valve to a huge fan that had trust in them, and that was based entirely on their long-term behavior towards the consumer. Same thing with your comments about EA.

Also, the difference between Valve and EA as private and public companies, and that issue being a major factor resulting in a very distinct difference between the two in corporate philosophy and standards, differences that ends up affecting the basic level of trust and service towards the consumer is a really good point. Just reading through the interviews with Gabe from the last year or so expanding on that and seeing the corresponding actions from Valve, I see nothing whatsoever like that from EA, either in word or deed.

 

[Foxtastical]

Wow. Real shitty.

Reconsidering BF3, and I've been playing BF religiously since 1942. This is really silly.