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[Parl]

Haha. They take it off Steam, but they're just encouraging people to use other rival digital distribution platforms such as The Pirate Bay and Iso Hunt.

 

[water_wendi]

Haha. They take it off Steam, but they're just encouraging people to use other rival digital distribution platforms such as The Pirate Bay and Iso Hunt.

So some Steam fans will rather pirate than purchase a game on another distribution service?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

...

May want to edit that out.

 

[PatzCU]

We still don't actually know why Crysis 2 was pulled from Steam do we? Just like we don't know for sure BF3 won't be on Steam? I just want to make sure I'm still on the same page. Still, having a 30+ page thread of pre-rioting isn't a bad thing. There have been some incredible posts relating to this issue, especially on the previous page.

I really don't think there is any other industry where the publisher alienates its consumer-base quite like gaming.

 

[scorpscarx]

Fucking lol



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-15-ea-origin-compares-to-xbl-psn-steam

Crysis 2 was recently pulled from industry leading digital distributor Steam. The game is now "only on Origin", although other smaller digital distribution outlets still offer the game. And that's apparently going to be a "long-term" recurrence.

This is pretty confirming to me.
Also this.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-06-15-ea-confirms-more-platform-exclusives-for-origin

 

[VisanidethDM]

From Steam companies get 70%, from brick n' mortars they get 30%.

False.

We have an extimate of the retail share, which has been for some years 27$ - which is closer to 50%.

We can't really know for Steam. We know Steam takes about 30% per sale, but the price range on Steam games is so big that making a similar guess is all but impossible.

One thing is fairly clear: if Steam takes 30% from 60$ games, than it's very likely that Pubs would be more than interested in pushing PC sales, as they would get a sensibly bigger cut.

On the other hand, if we can assume the average Steam PC game to sell between 35 and 45$, then even at 70% pubs would have reasons to push retail more.


In all honesty it's a topic that would require data we will never have to actually discuss.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I apologize in advance if this has not been linked before:

So...I only own the game for a year?

Fuck that shit. If I have a game in my Origin account I shouldn't pay again to access it. I'll be happy to use your service EA, but you are making me hate it already.

 

[Burekma]

So some Steam fans will rather pirate than purchase a game on another distribution service?

Don't want to be an ass, but roughly 30% of Steam users have microtorrent installed. It's safe to assume they know full well how to pirate, and it's a pretty significant portion of the users.

 

[VisanidethDM]

What you did there. I saw it.

It's Valve. They meant no ill will. Just wanted to open the way for billions and billions of $.

 

[water_wendi]

It's Valve. They meant no ill will. Just wanted to open the way for billions and billions of $.

lol Agree or disagree, your posts are almost always entertaining.

 

[Acosta]

If Valve did anything like use one of their most popular games as a trojan horse for a DD service the Steam fans would uprise.

I guess you had not been born back them but there was a gigantic uproar actually, much bigger than this, in a scenario where DD was non existant and none would have dared to do such thing.

Why it´s EA going to get a free pass? Steam proved itself to be useful for consumer. Origin so far is an annoyance that adds nothing of value.

 

[morningbus]

I swear to god some of you people could visit a coffee shop where they were offering half-price drinks for their opening day and you'd chew out the poor person behind the counter for their business tactics.

"You only want my repeat business! For SHAME!"

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Don't want to be an ass, but roughly 30% of Steam users have microtorrent installed. It's safe to assume they know full well how to pirate, and it's a pretty significant portion of the users.

And... you're saying they use it for PC games instead of say music, movies, or something else? I have Steam and use Usenet. Guess what, I have never pirated a PC game. I also own hundreds of games on Steam. So yea.

 

[water_wendi]

I guess you had not been born back them but there was a gigantic uproar actually, much bigger than this, in a scenario where DD was non existant and none would have dared to do such thing.

Why it´s EA going to get a free pass? Steam proved itself to be useful for consumer. Origin so far is an annoyance that adds nothing of value.

Which is why i find it funny (and unsettling) that Steam fans will boycott another service just because it isnt Steam. Theyve already been through the rough patch and know how things will play out.

This corporate defense mentality is the true consolization of PC gaming, imo. Its one thing to become attached to the artists that make the games you love to play. Its something else entirely to get attached to a monolithic distributor that, from how the DD pushers spin it, will control all of PC gaming before the next decade. i dont want a one-console future and i dont want the DD equivalent on PC.

 

[GJS]

Fuck that shit. If I have a game in my Origin account I shouldn't pay again to access it. I'll be happy to use your service EA, but you are making me hate it already.

Except you don't pay for it again.

I have purchases from over a year ago or longer and you can re-download them as much as you like.

 

[1-D_FTW]

this is nothing that should surprise anyone. valve is an independent developer with a sum total of 250 employees working in a weird commie set up where they aren't fired for saying hi to their boss. ea is an all-consuming 10,000 strong leviathan whose association with gaming is purely fiscal; they are essentially the middle men through which investors extract short term personal economic gain from an industry where the commodity happens to be video games.

the market has time and again spoken on the worth of steam, it's a true hero of rose-tinted post war capitalism. the little guy who conquered the world, yet never lost sight of how they got there. anyone can figure the relationship between the growth of pc gaming and its stalwart marketplace leadership by an independent developer who has time and again had pro-consumer practice at the top of their MO.

but this is big business, it was always a matter of time before a joyless warchest wielding empire attempted to rip the carpet out from underneath what valve have built. ea knows their user-base would rather buy from steam, therefore rather than developing a competitive alternative, they will simply forbid it; there is nothing competitive about this move in a pro-consumer sense. if valve is a fairytale hero of capitalism, ea is the cold reality, leveraging their weight to appease shareholders in a myopic move that is both against the will of their userbase and ultimately damaging to the industry they trade in.

Pretty much. And EA is too stupid to realize they're actually battling against their own interests here. Third parties and their portal glory in 2011 reminds me of the record companies and their realization that Apple was doing really well with itunes. The fact the record companies weren't successful is wresting the power back away from Apple was the best thing that could have happened to them. Their incompetence led to their increasing irrelevancy and it was only Apple's vision that saved their asses. Their "loss" was actually their gain. For the sake of everyone (consumer and corporate sales), EA and the rest of the portal glory gang can only hope they fail equally spectacularly and Valve continues to retain its market leadership. Ea and their likes have already ruled the industry and were abysmal failures. They need to keep piggybacking off someone who's shown they can cultivate and grow an industry. EA's 70 percent cut is still larger than any alternative they can dream up.

 

[scorpscarx]

i dont want a one-console future and i dont want the DD equivalent on PC.

Neither do I, but I don't want to buy from a forced EA store, why is that hard to understand for some people?

 

[ghst]

False.

We have an extimate of the retail share, which has been for some years 27$ - which is closer to 50%.

We can't really know for Steam. We know Steam takes about 30% per sale, but the price range on Steam games is so big that making a similar guess is all but impossible.

One thing is fairly clear: if Steam takes 30% from 60$ games, than it's very likely that Pubs would be more than interested in pushing PC sales, as they would get a sensibly bigger cut.

On the other hand, if we can assume the average Steam PC game to sell between 35 and 45$, then even at 70% pubs would have reasons to push retail more.


In all honesty it's a topic that would require data we will never have to actually discuss.

data you say?

Since 1997, when 1C’s gaming division was founded, the company worked on a model whereby a title developed and sold by 1C in Russia was then sub-licensed to our great publishing partners.

As a generalisation, retail would pay these guys a maximum of 40 per cent of what they made. So on a £29.99 game the publisher would receive about £12 (and on a sub-licensed deal, we would then only get about £4.25 of that) – minus return, write down and consignment costs.

When would we get that money? Well, payment would be by the end of the quarter.

So, let’s say £10 per unit sale goes to the publisher, £3 to the developer/sub-licensor, and it’s in your bank five months after the customer has paid out £30.

Compare that to the digital model. On a £29.99 sale, the digital partner will pay the publisher – or in many cases direct to the developer – between 60 and 70 per cent, by the end of the month following the sale.

Wow. To recap: on a sale over the counter today, we can have our £3 by the end of March, or on a digital sale, we can have £20 by Christmas.

Remind me why we should choose to go with retail and decline to let Steam sell the game?

 

[HK-47]

Which is why i find it funny (and unsettling) that Steam fans will boycott another service just because it isnt Steam. Theyve already been through the rough patch and know how things will play out.

This corporate defense mentality is the true consolization of PC gaming, imo. Its one thing to become attached to the artists that make the games you love to play. Its something else entirely to get attached to a monolithic distributor that, from how the DD pushers spin it, will control all of PC gaming before the next decade. i dont want a one-console future and i dont want the DD equivalent on PC.

Why should I immediately expect the same from EA? EA, destroyer of some of PC gaming's best devs and master of the server shut down.

They have to earn it.

 

[Angry Fork]

Which is why i find it funny (and unsettling) that Steam fans will boycott another service just because it isnt Steam. Theyve already been through the rough patch and know how things will play out.

This corporate defense mentality is the true consolization of PC gaming, imo. Its one thing to become attached to the artists that make the games you love to play. Its something else entirely to get attached to a monolithic distributor that, from how the DD pushers spin it, will control all of PC gaming before the next decade. i dont want a one-console future and i dont want the DD equivalent on PC.

And what we're saying is there's no company out there better for PC gamers than Valve right now (this is likely hyperbole, but still), and certainly not EA, so I accept Valve overlord with all its glory for the next decade or longer.

 

[water_wendi]

Why should I immediately expect the same from EA? EA, destroyer of some of PC gaming's best devs and master of the server shut down.

They have to earn it.

So let them earn it.

 

[Parl]

So some Steam fans will rather pirate than purchase a game on another distribution service?

Sorry, was meant in jest :F

May want to edit that out.

I'm not implying anything banable.

 

[water_wendi]

And what we're saying is there's no company out there better for PC gamers than Valve right now (this is likely hyperbole, but still), and certainly not EA, so I accept Valve overlord with all its glory for the next decade or longer.

There was a time that EA was an inspiration to the artistic integrity of gaming. Companies can change quickly. As far as im concerned, Valve is one heartbeat away from becoming something entirely different.

 

[subversus]

So let them earn it.

haha, judging from TOS posted above they're on the right path!

 

[scorpscarx]

There was a time that EA was an inspiration to the artistic integrity of gaming. Companies can change quickly. As far as im concerned, Valve is one heartbeat away from becoming something entirely different.

Valve earned it when they made HL1. Your behind the times.

 

[Corto]

EA thinks that they are a platform? This will end well...

 

[Burekma]

And... you're saying they use it for PC games instead of say music, movies, or something else? I have Steam and use Usenet. Guess what, I have never pirated a PC game. I also own hundreds of games on Steam. So yea.

The fact that they have Microtorrent installed suggests they know how to pirate. Because lets face it, the vast majority isn't using it for much else. And I wouldn't put it past some (not all) of them to "get back" at EA through pirating their games.

 

[Acosta]

Which is why i find it funny (and unsettling) that Steam fans will boycott another service just because it isnt Steam. Theyve already been through the rough patch and know how things will play out.

Errr? No?

EA won't be able to sell anything from any meaningful third party. So the purpose of Origin as store is pretty much worthless.

And what Origin will offer as services that makes it appealing? anything? So far, nothing. They have to play catch up with the mess of a service they have now (lol at the layout, it´s a fucking mess.)

And let's not talk about confidence and trust if we can avoid it, eh?

EA has more chances of putting a rocket in Mars than catching up with Steam.

i dont want a one-console future and i dont want the DD equivalent on PC.

Good, I don't want a one store future and that is exactly what Origin offers: no choice at all. Why you are defending this is beyond me.

 

[alstein]

Fuck that shit. If I have a game in my Origin account I shouldn't pay again to access it. I'll be happy to use your service EA, but you are making me hate it already.

In that case, the best solution is to say no sale until Origin provides an acceptable service level. This is my stance personally.

No single game is so good to me anymore that I'll put up with infinite bullshit just to own that one particular game. There's enough good stuff out there that I can always go somewhere else.

 

[water_wendi]

Valve earned it when they made HL1. Your behind the times.

Gabe Newell is Valve as far as im concerned. He is the heart and soul of that company. He is a positive force in the gaming world. However, the reality is that he will not be there forever to keep Valve on the up and up.

 

[scorpscarx]

Gabe Newell is Valve as far as im concerned. He is the heart and soul of that company. He is a positive force in the gaming world. However, the reality is that he will not be there forever to keep Valve on the up and up.

This is true and I do admit I contemplate sending them packages of V8 and fruit baskets in an attempt to improve his health.

 

[1-D_FTW]

So let them earn it.

30 years have spoken. EA changes directions like the wind. Sales slump, a new CEO is brought in, and things are radically realigned with no regard for what was done in the past.

30 years have proven only one thing: EA's promises are worthless. They can and will change policy at a moments notice. They're completely reactionary and devoid of any vision anymore. A company with that motto can never earn it because they'll never stick to anything. They're incapable of it. Nothing in their DNA allows them to be leaders.

 

[subversus]

This is true and I do admit I contemplate sending them packages of V8 and fruit baskets in an attempt to improve his health.

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

 

[scorpscarx]

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

That's horseshit, Gabe is the boss, but the company is strong and equally capable to continue on in the same way that we expect them to.

 

[GotEmRunnin]

There was a time that EA was an inspiration to the artistic integrity of gaming. Companies can change quickly. As far as im concerned, Valve is one heartbeat away from becoming something entirely different.

Is this before or after Half life 3?

 

[Deadstar]

Looks like I'll be waiting till this is $10 in the Target clearance section.

 

[Mooreberg]

Not a good thing for the platform in general for a large publisher to be burying its head in the sand and pretend that Steam isn't what the consumers have voted for with their digital wallets for several years now.

Of course the huge beneficiary in the immediate future is Activision. They're actually smart enough to be beta testing their pick pocketing scheme through Steam rather than trying to run against it. Good job, EA! :-\

Looks like I'll be waiting till this is $10 in the Target clearance section.

Ditto.

 

[Stallion Free]

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

Except he owns the company and can choose his successor.

 

[VisanidethDM]

data you say?

I admit I had to google 1C.

But why are you repeating what I already said?

For low cost PC games, DD is a boon. Retail/distribution prices won't go down. Nobody gives a fuck you're selling your game at 29$, fuel costs the same, workers cost the same, physical media costs the same etc. That's why I remarked that the 70% Forbes figure is probably based on this kind of stuff.

Besides, there's another factor to consider. Nobody - aside probably from Wendi, whose position I absolutely understand - is arguing DD isn't an exceptional answer to most of the current weaknesses of the videogame industry. Cutting fixed costs is the first step, even if it leads to an overall negative impact on the economy (because if say DD tomorrow becomes dominant, sub-contractors like couriers will take a hit and disc-writing factories and businesses like Gamestop will leave people unemployed etc, but it's not relevant to this discussion).
Shortly, DD has an heap of benefits. I think the only "negative" reactions may come in response to declarations of zealotry ("Steam or no buy!" makes no sense whatsoever to me, and it's a whole new level of stupid compared to console exclusivity, because at least in that case your Wii WON'T run MS games, here it's pure masochism) or to claims that Valve is some sort of white knight instead of a competent business firm.

 

[Symphonic]

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

There are other Valve employees, such as Erik Woplaw and Chet Falisek, that I believe could run the company competently. Not up to Gabe's standard, of course, but I feel that they have a big enough love for Valve to prevent it from sinking fast.

Of course they're all around the same age, so it probably doesn't even matter.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

Not likely, I'd say. You think Gabe has people at the top who don't share his vision and will keep it alive?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

data you say?

There we go. That's what I was looking for. Will be interested to read his response.

 

[Acosta]

Valve can easily become a new EA as soon as Gabe retires.

Sure, and EA is EA already. I'll go with the "not EA yet" for the moment.

 

[szaromir]

so you're blaming Steam for your own weakness to their sales?

No, I'm not blaming it for anything. I don't have hundreds upon hundreds of games on Steam. But Steam is what it is - a bloated DRM app with storefront attached to it to sell even more games.

What do you think Origin will become? EA wants Origin to become exactly like Steam. If EA could, they would have launched it with everything up instead of some pathetic 3 year plan chart to catch up to the competition >_>

That's the point of Origin, indeed. And if I can interact with EA and their games without middlemen, that's probably the best for both sides. If their games or online services turn out to be underwhelming, I won't buy any of their games until they figure their shit out. Note - I don't want to play any announced EA game besides TOR and TOR will probably launch broken, so I can patiently wait for years until EA gets Origin right.

Across dozens of various accounts and online apps I use for different services, installing 5 more for publisher specific apps is not a huge hassle. If these apps can provide some cool online interaction between various games of the same publisher or between gamers and developers, that'd be cool. If not, oh well I can live with it.

 

[José Mourinho]

I had to use EADM once for mirrors edge. It was a terrible time in my life. I doubt I'll ever use Origin, but if I do, I hope it's better than the old EA store thing.

 

[Stallion Free]

I admit I had to google 1C.

Shakin' my head.

Across dozens of various accounts and online apps I use for different services, installing 5 more for publisher specific apps is not a huge hassle. If these apps can provide some cool online interaction between various games of the same publisher or between gamers and developers, that'd be cool. If not, oh well I can live with it.

I already find it tedious to keep track of my online accounts for my consoles + Steam and GOG and I'd rather not have to deal with 15 more on PC.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Good, I don't want a one store future and that is exactly what Origin offers: no choice at all. Why you are defending this is beyond me.

Because a future where there's no "common" DD distribution and each publisher has its own service has an enormous potential for consumer benefit. EA could counter CoD by making BF3 5$ cheaper, for example.

Put the publishers in direct competition. Retail, Steam and all that jazz are just a convenient umbrella that allows them to apply cartel prices and get away with it.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

No, I'm not blaming it for anything. I don't have hundreds upon hundreds of games on Steam. But Steam is what it is - a bloated DRM app with storefront attached to it to sell even more games.

Or a great community hub with wonderful applications and a huge focus on encouraging competitive play/co-operation in the PC gaming environment, rather than just giving you a .exe to launch. The store is merely a convenient way for me to check out the daily deals, new games for sale, etc etc and removes any extra steps I would have to take to visit their website.

That's how I look at it. That's why I love it so much. Steam makes PC gaming feel as social and relevant as XBL/PSN, if not moreso.

 

[Stallion Free]

Or a great community hub with wonderful applications and a huge focus on encouraging competitive play/co-operation in the PC gaming environment, rather than just giving you a .exe to launch. The store is merely a convenient way for me to check out the daily deals, new games for sale, etc etc and removes any extra steps I would have to take to visit their website.

That's how I look at it. That's why I love it so much. Steam makes PC gaming feel as social and relevant as XBL/PSN, if not moreso.

I have just begun to assume that people who can only see a DRM side to Steam have never used the community features/have any friends they game with online.

 

[VisanidethDM]

Shakin' my head.

It's really not my genre, I'll admit :<.

Wait I played King's Bounty.