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[AWizardDidIt]

Bloodborne had warping too but also interconnected level design and that worked just great (well, besides the 1 minute long loading times). It's all about where they place bonfires. If they're spaced as frequently as in DS2 then yeah, it could hinder the feeling of exploration somewhat, but if they space them out a little bit more then I don't see it being a problem.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Warping? :/

 

[Tarkus]

I dunno, it lead to some pretty memorable moments like having to fight your way back from the bottom of Blighttown. Maybe they could compromise with "one-way" bonfires or something?

Or have some bonfires not warpable like in DS1. Particularly in areas where a sense of great accomplishment occurs like climbing out of blighttown.

 

[Neoweee]

Or have some bonfires not warpable like in DS1. Particularly in areas where a sense of great accomplishment occurs like climbing out of blighttown.

That's like the least likely thing to happen.

In Dark Souls 1, I felt like I was punished for exploring.

Ash Lake before you unlock warping? Have fun.

Arbitrary glowy wall in the tomb before unlocking warping? Have fun.

Demon's Ruins too early? Have fun.

I did all three of those things, and it was horrible. And when I did get to warp, it was severely limited, because From hadn't patched the game yet to include warp points that made some goddamn sense.

 

[ZangBa]

That was the point of the shortcuts/level design in DSI.

No, the point of shortcuts are to get to bosses of an area faster and more easily. In most cases, you will be backtracking because you want to upgrade an weapon, buy items, level up, talk to an NPC and other mundane tasks like this. Warping from the start lets you get through these actions and keep the momentum up.

I dunno, it lead to some pretty memorable moments like having to fight your way back from the bottom of Blighttown. Maybe they could compromise with "one-way" bonfires or something?

Blightown, besides the framerate, wasn't so bad. But if you get stuck in Tomb of the Giants without the lordvessel, that is no fun for anyone.

 

[rhandino]

Warping is cool, they could make big self-contained levels that have very big distances in between bonfires like in No Man's Wharf, Dragon Aerie and Dragon Shrine...

or hide them even more like the ones on Aldia Keep and Drangleic Castle =P

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

There's all this talk of 'Ash', perhaps the bonfires produce a specific amount and every time you warp it uses some up; depleting it at a bonfire would mean you could no longer warp to and from it - maybe that's why we've seen images of enemies being "sacrificed" at a bonfire - to create more Ash.

Having warping as a finite yet replenishable resource like Estus flask would force players to consider their movement around the game world more carefully.

Who knows tho, I obviously just pulled all of that out of my ass.

 

[The Hermit]

Omg those impressions!

Can't wait Jesus crhist

 

[Orochinagis]

Bloodborne had warping too but also interconnected level design and that worked just great (well, besides the 1 minute long loading times). It's all about where they place bonfires. If they're spaced as frequently as in DS2 then yeah, it could hinder the feeling of exploration somewhat, but if they space them out a little bit more then I don't see it being a problem.

But you cant warp between Lamps but return to the dream and warp which is different, it forces you to go to the hub then warp again, I prefer to run in-game.

No, the point of shortcuts are to get to bosses of an area faster and more easily. In most cases, you will be backtracking because you want to upgrade an weapon, buy items, level up, talk to an NPC and other mundane tasks like this. Warping from the start lets you get through these actions and keep the momentum up.

And thats the main different about Dark Souls and BB, Dark Souls "shorcuts" are more about getting to another zones fast while bloodborne is about getting fast to the boss.

There's all this talk of 'Ash', perhaps the bonfires produce a specific amount and every time you warp it uses some up; depleting it at a bonfire would mean you could no longer warp to and from it - maybe that's why we've seen images of enemies being "sacrificed" at a bonfire - to create more Ash.

It would be interesting to see the bonfires to decay and extinghish so you have to use Ash or humanity to reignite it again

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

No, the point of shortcuts are to get to bosses of an area faster and more easily. In most cases, you will be backtracking because you want to upgrade an weapon, buy items, level up, talk to an NPC and other mundane tasks like this. Warping from the start lets you get through these actions and keep the momentum up.

There are 3 shortcuts from Undead Burg alone than can get a good player to Firelink in 2 minutes or under, I think this process is better imo.

The constant warping from the get-go just breaks the world a bit for me. Just look at the FOUR bonfires situated in the tiny Heide's Tower area in DSII...

 

[ZangBa]

And thats the main different about Dark Souls and BB, Dark Souls "shorcuts" are more about getting to another zones fast while bloodborne is about getting fast to the boss.

All right. Where's my fast track to Firelink from Painted World?

Warping is fine, it's only DS1 that doesn't have it from the start and it certainly didn't make it any more enjoyable.

There are 3 shortcuts from Undead Burg alone than can get a good player to Firelink in 2 minutes or under, I think this process is better imo.

The constant warping from the get-go just breaks the world a bit for me. Just look at the FOUR bonfires situated in the tiny Heide's Tower area in DSII...

Yeah, that's fine for Undead Burg, but no one is spending the whole game there so who cares. Tell me how you plan to get to that great shortcut from Ash Lake.

 

[ThatChairMan]

So does it sound like powerstancing is completely removed in this case? Seems like dual wielding will only be limited to specific weapons now.

 

[Kazuhira]

There's all this talk of 'Ash', perhaps the bonfires produce a specific amount and every time you warp it uses some up; depleting it at a bonfire would mean you could no longer warp to and from it - maybe that's why we've seen images of enemies being "sacrificed" at a bonfire - to create more Ash.

Having warping as a finite yet replenishable resource like Estus flask would force players to consider their movement around the game world more carefully.

Who knows tho, I obviously just pulled all of that out of my ass.

Dude,that sounds awesome! it´s really interesting and i hope you´re right.
I think you might be onto something with this idea.

 

[Orochinagis]

All right. Where's my fast track to Firelink from Painted World?

Firelink<Undead Church via Elevator < Sen fortress secret elevator < Anor Londo elevator< Painted world.

Yeah, that's fine for Undead Burg, but no one is spending the whole game there so who cares. Tell me how you plan to get to that great shortcut from Ash Lake.

You visit that place for three times unless you use the master key.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

DSII warping is good. No point in having to waste time walking between places.

That killed any sense of discovery, and the unique compression of space that happens in the other games when you finally start to understand the areas. Warping everywhere is one of the worst things about DS2 for me. Good level design and strategically placed points and shortcuts don't undermine the experience.

 

[Servbot24]

DSII warping is good. No point in having to waste time walking between places.

Walking between places is what gives you a sense of connection to the world.

 

[TheGreatLugia]

Gametrailers impressions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZKG-OXSmLY

According to Ben, this is how Miyazaki replied to being asked about his involvement in Dark Souls II and Dark Souls III:

It was not my will to leave Dark Souls II. It was also not my will to come back to Dark Souls III. The way that I want to be involved with these games is as a director, and so I'm glad if I have to step back in, this is how I'm doing it.

 

[Karamsoul]

Here's another one: http://www.entertainmentbuddha.com/dark-souls-3-e3-2015-preview/

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

Yeah, that's fine for Undead Burg, but no one is spending the whole game there so who cares. Tell me how you plan to get to that great shortcut from Ash Lake.

Ash Lake is supposed to be hidden and a challenge.

 

[Robot Pants]

Warping thing sounds bad.
Why not just to covenant locations like it was in the first game? (Before patches)

 

[Cavaliersfan767]

As long as the level design is on par with ds 1, im fine with it. Bloodborne's levels where kind of a dissapointment. Although the areas had shortcuts, the game still pushed you in one direction. I hope you can choose where to go in the beginning like firelink shrine, which had 2 or 3 ways you could potentially go

 

[Ryan7556]

As long as the level design is on par with ds 1, im fine with it. Bloodborne's levels where kind of a dissapointment. Although the areas had shortcuts, the game still pushed you in one direction. I hope you can choose where to go in the beginning like firelink shrine, which had 2 or 3 ways you could potentially go

Most reasonable response so far I think. Even Majula in Dark Souls 2 was kind of similar, you could go to Forest of the Fallen Giants, or Heide's tower, it was also possible to get to the Gutter early (but of course you needed the cat ring for that to survive the fall). Whereas Bloodborne is Central Yharnam -> Cathedral Ward (Old Yharnam as an optional branch, along with Hemwick Charnel Lane) -> Forbidden Forest, etc. Now of course where Dark Souls 2 fell short was overuse of bonfires and little use of shortcuts (especially when you got to Drangleic Castle and further). Bloodborne's lantern placement was certainly better thought out by comparison.

 

[ZangBa]

Walking between places is what gives you a sense of connection to the world.

I feel pretty connected with the warping, so I don't get this mentality.

Ash Lake is supposed to be hidden and a challenge.

There is nothing challenging about Ash Lake, there's like 3 clams and a Hydra that kills itself, lol.

 

[tcrunch]

So does it sound like powerstancing is completely removed in this case? Seems like dual wielding will only be limited to specific weapons now.

There is no comment on powerstancing at all, there is only an impression that a certain weapon can be dual-wielded while only taking up one inventory slot. Without more gameplay (and a HUD) or a comment from a dev you could not say anything either way about powerstancing.

The character in The Know's pre-E3 leak has a second weapon on their back but you also can't say which slot it's for.

But if you get stuck in Tomb of the Giants without the lordvessel, that is no fun for anyone.

You can't get stuck in TotG, it has a footpath back to the Catacombs.

 

[Vasili2K38]

In general great impressions, for me the two best details:
- Level design by Miyazaki, seriously, its probably one of the best level designers of the world.
- Stances, I love the weapon transformation mechanic from Bloodborne, and the Stances seem more similar to this than to the traditional two-hand from DeS and DaS1&2.

 

[Cavaliersfan767]

Does anybody have any info on the leveling system? Im really hoping you can level at bonfires again.

 

[ZangBa]

You know, none of this even matters. The real question is, do we have an option to jump with L3 again? Fuck O to jump.

 

[Gbraga]

You know, none of this even matters. The real question is, do we have an option to jump with L3 again? Fuck O to jump.

Miyazaki said they'll probably implement L3 jumping as an option.

Which is great, but I hope it doesn't break the normal way from Dark Souls 1, Dark II gave you the option to jump with O, but didn't give you the option to roll while running unless you used L3 jumping, so what's the point?

Bloodborne is the one that could really use L3 jumping, since there's no block there (well, there is one way of blocking, but still doesn't give you a roll)

 

[QueenOfThorns]

It has warping from the start? That sucks.

BB had good level design, but I would have still preferred no warping. I really miss the exploration of Dark Souls 1. BB has its moments, yeah, but the tension is taken away when you know you can just teleport back whenever you want. The feeling of going to Blight Town and knowing that you're just going to have to do everything it takes to beat it before being able to go the outside again was incredible. Warping makes that kind of thing impossible.

 

[Azar]

The way the "branch of magic" bit reads it sounds like speculation from the author, not a suggestion from Miyazaki. Again, such is the way of E3.

The PCGamer article also mentions their target multiplayer count is 6 like SOTFS, but it would not be surprising if they couldn't make it since they couldn't in Bloodborne.

It was speculation from me based on his answer, which obviously didn't confirm anything specific. Basically, someone asked him a kind of open-ended question like "Will ash be used as a new type of magic or have something to do with magic" based on something he noticed in the demo, and Miyazaki answered, and the translator said "yes." So, it's hard to know exactly what that means, and of course he didn't want to spill the beans this early. But I think my inference is realistic.

 

[Gbraga]

It has warping from the start? That sucks.

BB had good level design, but I would have still preferred no warping. I really miss the exploration of Dark Souls 1. BB has its moments, yeah, but the tension is taken away when you know you can just teleport back whenever you want. The feeling of going to Blight Town and knowing that you're just going to have to do everything it takes to beat it before being able to go the outside again was incredible. Warping makes that kind of thing impossible.

They'd have to rework the overall world design though.

Bloodborne has amazing level design, I'd go as far as saying that the individual levels are even better designed than those of Dark Souls, but Dark Souls' world is better designed, more cohesive, and more interconnected. Of course, one could argue that this is exactly the consequence of having free warping, even when you have what is in my opinion the best level desginer in the business, but if you ask for no warping with the current Bloodborne world design, then you just want to suffer

 

[Cavaliersfan767]

Another concern is warping allows the devs to be lazy with level design. Now i dont think that will happen with miyazaki at the helm, but its still a concern. In DS1 they built the game knowing there would be no warping early on. This forced them to create this super awesome cohesive interconnected world that so far hasnt been matched.

 

[Get'sMad]

I mean I loved how DS1 didn't let you warp until later in the game and would prefer something like that, but DS2s main problem was that the level design was vastly inferior to DS1 coupled w/ the fact that there were waaaaaaaaay too many bonfires in the game. If DS3 has much bigger areas like they're claiming w/ some classic Miyazaki level design and is not littered w/bonfires every 10 ft its going to be fine.

 

[Bl@de]

You know, none of this even matters. The real question is, do we have an option to jump with L3 again? Fuck O to jump.

Yes. Thankfully you can change it. I hate O to jump. It can burn in hell. Killed me a couple of times in Bloodborne ... rolling into an abyss. L3 in DS2 is so much better.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Warping from the start? What a disappointment. Lack of easy teleportation is the best thing about Dark 1.

 

[Pooya]

well, don't warp! What matters most is the level design to me, if there are shortcuts and such and it's really interconnected like they say, I won't be warping around.

 

[Houndi101]

The early Dark Souls 1 level design is so godly I fear they don't have to make them so good if they just include warping from the beginning

 

[Look! The Pie!]

Part of me wants to say it's cool for warping to be in for those who want to use it - after all, nobody's forcing you not to walk everywhere - but I'm apprehensive if it means the interconnectedness (is that even a word?) will be compromised, especially with Miyazaki talking it up as being on a par with DS1.

Maybe have warping in from the start, but require a (very limited) consumable?

 

[Gbraga]

well, don't warp! What matters most is the level design to me, if there are shortcuts and such and it's really interconnected like they say, I won't be warping around.

This is exactly what people said to defend Dark Souls II when it did the same thing.

While Bloodborne makes me rest at ease because I know Miyazaki's level design is godlike even with free warping, just not warping doesn't magically make a game's level design just like the first Dark Souls.

 

[KittenMaster]

If they're going to have bonfire warping, they need to make you work for your bonfire locations and not just do it to add to convenience.

 

[shtkn]

they could have it so that you can't warp to EVERY bonfire, just to the starting ones in each area.

 

[Houndi101]

Has the movable bonfires been confirmed?

 

[Sinatar]

Has the movable bonfires been confirmed?

More importantly, is this the game where we will finally get the much dreaded Bonfire Mimic.

 

[Look! The Pie!]

You know, all this talk of bonfires reminds me of something I'm surprised hasn't been implemented in a Souls game thus far...

Bonfire Mimics.

Just imagine, trudging through a difficult area, seeing an unlit bonfire in the distance and being so eager to reach it that you don't even notice that the button prompt simply says "Examine" instead of "Light Bonfire"...

YOU DIED

(Yeah, I know, it's a terrible idea that would only serve to frustrate people, but it's been in my head ever since I first played DS1.)

EDIT: lol, beaten

 

[SargerusBR]

Warping from the start? Miyazaki B-level designer confirmed.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

You know, all this talk of bonfires reminds me of something I'm surprised hasn't been implemented in a Souls game thus far...

Bonfire Mimics.

Just imagine, trudging through a difficult area, seeing an unlit bonfire in the distance and being so eager to reach it that you don't even notice that the button prompt simply says "Examine" instead of "Light Bonfire"...

YOU DIED

(Yeah, I know, it's a terrible idea that would only serve to frustrate people, but it's been in my head ever since I first played DS1.)

EDIT: lol, beaten

FFXII had these, actually - but they did turn into actual save crystals once you defeated them.

If they're going to have bonfire warping, they need to make you work for your bonfire locations and not just do it to add to convenience.

Bloodborne already tried this, and it just isn't as good as the DS1 system.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4LQMXobSAk

I can say that in my many hours of BB it never happened to me something similar.

 

[Kazuhira]

Warping from the beginning is fine,as long as bonfires are located far away from each other and they are considered as a reward for completing a complex area of the game.

 

[zenosparadox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4LQMXobSAk

I played a crap load of BB and that never happened to me

 

[SteamyPunk]

This has probably been posted elsewhere but here's some info from the new Famitsu interview:
>
-If the story of Dark Souls 1 was killing the gods, DS3 is about killing the kings.
-Story takes place after DS2 but you don't need to have played the previous games to understand it.
-Features returning from DS2 include the number of weapons and rings you can equip in addition to bonfire warping and jump button remapping.
-They're already out of Alpha
-Tanimura brought in recently for polish
>

No wonder they are saying Early 2016. Sounds like the game is really far along. I wouldn't be surprised if Tanimura recently finished the prototyping stage of the next game.(DS4...?) I think what's making everything feel fast is that DS2 was probably originally planned to come out about 6 months earlier than it did. Probably the same for Bloodborne too. I bet they learned a lot working on those two games and DS3 production has been super smooth.