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DC TV Off-Season - Crisis on Infinite Reruns

T

The Cretan

Member
Great poster.

I want to ask a question. Since Flash is far better written than Arrow, why CW doesn't hire the Flash writers to handle Arrow or at least hire them to overwatch (no pun intended) the scripts of Arrow episodes?
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
The Cretan said:
Great poster.

I want to ask a question. Since Flash is far better written than Arrow, why CW doesn't hire the Flash writers to handle Arrow or at least hire them to overwatch (no pun intended) the scripts of Arrow episodes?
Click to expand...

Because writing a show is incredibly tough and you can't expect staff writers to pull double duty on a 10+ hour a day job?

Berlanti, Kreisberg and Guggenheim are the ones watching over the scripts. That's what they do.


And on the matter of Flash, people aren't exactly too hot on the writers after S2.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
I'm actually slowly coming around to Captain Cold after seeing him in the first few episodes of Legends. I haven't finished the season though.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
ZeroX03 said:
Because writing a show is incredibly tough and you can't expect staff writers to pull double duty on a 10+ hour a day job?

Berlanti, Kreisberg and Guggenheim are the ones watching over the scripts. That's what they do.
Click to expand...

Even then, they have to find some new writers. I think Arrow was a very good show until the end of season 3 (season 2 especially was great), but season 4 wasn't like the other seasons.

edit:
ZeroX03 said:
And on the matter of Flash, people aren't exactly too hot on the writers after S2.
Click to expand...
I loved the show, expect the last episodes of S2, but it was still good.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Madridista said:
I'm actually slowly coming around to Captain Cold after seeing him in the first few episodes of Legends. I haven't finished the season though.
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It's all about Heat Wave tbh

The Cretan said:
Even then, they have to find some new writers. I think Arrow was a very good show until the end of season 3 (season 2 especially was great), but season 4 wasn't like the other seasons.
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I mean it's odd you think S3 is good, because most people dislike both and it's arguably worse than S4. I don't think "this personally isn't to my taste" is a reason to hire new writers.

They're hiring different people as they go along. Some will work, some won't. Overall direction comes from the producers. Keep in mind they're also fighting budget cuts and it's just harder to write TV as you exhaust plots.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Some people love him. I'm ambivalent. The way he talks only bothers me in that it doesn't allow him to emote very well. Tired, annoyed, snarky, mischievous. They literally all come off the same way because of how the lines are read. Otherwise it's campy in a Batman 66 sorta way.

Malcolm Merlyn ranks pretty high on my Most Annoying Character List. The actor is fine, of course. It's Barrowman. But they just have him saying and doing the same things ad nauseum. Fucks over Team Arrow, says it was all for Thea, Thea yells, he disappears and then suddenly appears to do it again. Lather rinse repeat. My suspension of disbelief has been broken with him...in a universe that has flying hawk people and metahumans. Just let Thea put an arrow in his eye and be done with it.
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Thea should've killed Malcolm in the finale.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
ZeroX03 said:
It's all about Heat Wave tbh



I mean it's odd you think S3 is good, because most people dislike both and it's arguably worse than S4. I don't think "this personally isn't to my taste" is a reason to hire new writers.

They're hiring different people as they go along. Some will work, some won't. Overall direction comes from the producers. Keep in mind they're also fighting budget cuts and it's just harder to write TV as you exhaust plots.
Click to expand...

If I don't like the writing of a show, it's pretty logical to want new writers. They aren't gonna change the writers because one person wants it, but that doesn't mean I can't want something.

Many people probably dislike many things I like or you like. Why's that odd?

I agree with you on the exhausting plots part. You can't make everything on a show great, but that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna "complain" (I couldn't find a more suitable word) for the writing. Comic book writers write a lot. Take Johns' run of the Flash for example, if you have read it. It wasn't great in every single aspect, but it was very better than Arrow's S4. I know I compare different mediums, but tv writers and comic book writers write a lot. I know each of them face different difficulties, but I think my point still stands.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
PHOENIXZERO said:
Thea should've killed Malcolm in the finale.
Click to expand...

*season 3 finale

The Cretan said:
If I don't like the writing of a show, it's pretty logical to want new writers. They aren't gonna change the writers because one person wants it, but that doesn't mean I can't want something.

Many people probably dislike many things I like or you like. Why's that odd?

I agree with you on the exhausting plots part. You can't make everything on a show great, but that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna "complain" (I couldn't find a more suitable word) for the writing. Comic book writers write a lot. Take Johns' run of the Flash for example, if you have read it. It wasn't great in every single aspect, but it was very better than Arrow's S4. I know I compare different mediums, but tv writers and comic book writers write a lot. I know each of them face different difficulties, but I think my point still stands.
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Yeah, but you don't like the writing of a show that's kept a fair chunk of the writers from the seasons you do like. I'm having trouble parsing what you want? You want the quality of the first three seasons, so you want them to get rid of the people who wrote those seasons and hire new ones? It's a confusing angle to come from. Especially since you seem to like S3. And you wanted oversight, despite that already being present. Between that and wanting Arrow to just take Flash's writers, I'm not sure you quite grasp how TV writing works. Overhauling a writer's room or even just a showrunner is a really fast way to a bad transitional season.

And have I read Johns' run, please.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
ZeroX03 said:
Yeah, but you don't like the writing of a show that's kept a fair chunk of the writers from the seasons you do like. I'm having trouble parsing what you want? You want the quality of the first three seasons, so you want them to get rid of the people who wrote those seasons and hire new ones? It's a confusing angle to come from. Especially since you seem to like S3. And you wanted oversight, despite that already being present. Between that and wanting Arrow to just take Flash's writers, I'm not sure you quite grasp how TV writing works. Overhauling a writer's room or even just a showrunner is a really fast way to a bad transitional season.

And have I read Johns' run, please.
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They wrote seasons I like, but that doesn't mean that I like everything else they wrote or will write. If they can't keep up with good seasons (I get that it's difficult), then CW has to find new ones to help them or to replace them. Oversight was a suggestion, if they can't do it, then that's okay, but CW has to find a solution to fix this problem.

The above is just my opinion, many watchers probably found S4 to be an improvement, but you know what they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
The Cretan said:
They wrote seasons I like, but that doesn't mean that I like everything else they wrote or will write. If they can't keep up with good seasons (I get that it's difficult), then CW has to find new ones to help them or to replace them. Oversight was a suggestion, if they can't do it, then that's okay, but CW has to find a solution to fix this problem.

The above is just my opinion, many watchers probably found S4 to be an improvement, but you know what they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what you mean by oversight. They have producers who oversee multiple shows and the general arcs.

And again, just outright replacing writers isn't a solution that often works.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
ZeroX03 said:
I don't even know what you mean by oversight. They have producers who oversee multiple shows and the general arcs.

And again, just outright replacing writers isn't a solution that often works.
Click to expand...

I meant that the Flash writers would check the quality of the scripts of Arrow's writers. Since producers do that job, there is no need for that.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Shows usually just decline as they age. The novelty wears off for the viewer, the writers need to come up with more ridiculous premises, or they end up repeating themselves. People loved Arrow because it was a serious take on a DC comic character on TV. It wasn't silly and it wasn't a prequel. Then we got Flash. Superpowers! The charm will wear off on that too with so many other comic shows on the air now.

If the trend continues, I'd expect a sharper and more apparent decline in the quality or Flash episodes as it goes on. But that's just speculation on my part because it peaked earlier and is more reliant on special effects than Arrow.

Maybe I'm alone, but I don't see some huge gulf in the writing quality of Arrow and Flash. I watched both shows weekly & enjoy them most of the time, but they're not the gold standard for TV writing. They're not even written particularly well compared to other shows on the same network. Doesn't mean they aren't fun. But Flash writers have enough on their hands trying to keep their show interesting. You could swap writers between the shows and I bet nobody would notice the difference.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Shows usually just decline as they age. The novelty wears off for the viewer, the writers need to come up with more ridiculous premises, or they end up repeating themselves. People loved Arrow because it was a serious take on a DC comic character on TV. It wasn't silly and it wasn't a prequel. Then we got Flash. Superpowers! The charm will wear off on that too with so many other comic shows on the air now.

If the trend continues, I'd expect a sharper and more apparent decline in the quality or Flash episodes as it goes on. But that's just speculation on my part because it peaked earlier and is more reliant on special effects than Arrow.

Maybe I'm alone, but I don't see some huge gulf in the writing quality of Arrow and Flash. I watched both shows weekly & enjoy them most of the time, but they're not the gold standard for TV writing. They're not even written particularly well compared to other shows on the same network. Doesn't mean they aren't fun. But Flash writers have enough on their hands trying to keep their show interesting. You could swap writers between the shows and I bet nobody would notice the difference.
Click to expand...

Considering how far off the Wagon they've gone on the Flash, Season 1 being their peak is kinda effed.
 
M

Magwik

Banned
It's much much easier for viewers to forgive the writing when Flash is consistently more fun and knows how to have fun with the material meanwhile Arrow is still too self serious to even have fun. Which is why again every Arrow character improved greatly in the crossovers.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Some shows can improve in later seasons - the trend of the first/second season being the strongest is relatively new, it used to be third/fourth - but it's not common. Almost every example I can think of is either a cable drama (shorter seasons) or comedy. The Good Wife S5 I guess. And Supernatural S11 apparently.

I thought Smallville was better in the latter half because it embraced the comic book roots but the production values took massive hits.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
StaticJam said:
It's much much easier for viewers to forgive the writing when Flash is consistently more fun and knows how to have fun with the material meanwhile Arrow is still too self serious to even have fun. Which is why again every Arrow character improved greatly in the crossovers.
Click to expand...

People keep saying this and I never really got that vibe. Yeah they're allowed to have fun more but the characters aren't necessarily better for it. Its just a different side of them. A side you see in Arrow from time to time.
 
J

Jorok Goldblade

Member
ZeroX03 said:
I thought Smallville was better in the latter half because it embraced the comic book roots but the production values took massive hits.
Click to expand...

It was also better in later seasons because they got rid of Lana, but took a hit because Clark's path to Superman became an exercise in running in place.
 
J

Joni

Member
ZeroX03 said:
Some shows can improve in later seasons - the trend of the first/second season being the strongest is relatively new, it used to be third/fourth - but it's not common. Almost every example I can think of is either a cable drama (shorter seasons) or comedy. The Good Wife S5 I guess. And Supernatural S11 apparently.
Click to expand...

Supernatural goes crescendo from season 1 to 5. And there is Grey's Anatomy which remains awesome.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
kylecoley182 said:
Green Arrow is getting some new looks this season
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It's hard to make super colorful outfits without them looking a little dorky (or not playing nice with effects), hence Flash's suit being darker red than normal. I wouldn't ever expect a really green outfit.
 
I

iosefe

Member
latest
Click to expand...
.
 
P

Psykoboy2

Member
Both Arrow Season 4 and Flash Season 2 are getting Best Buy exclusive steelbooks. Be interesting to see if they go back and do this for the previous seasons.

wq3f2Zh.jpg


htymkbb.jpg
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Some Ask Ausiello stuff:
Question: Do you have any scoop about Arrow? —James
Ausiello: If you’re wondering how Curtis will play a larger role in Season 5 — now that Echo Kellum is a series regular — but without duplicating Felicity’s efforts, Wendy Mericle laid out the difference for us. “Essentially, if she’s software, he’s hardware,” the EP explained. “As he evolves into becoming Mr. Terrific in Season 5, one of the things we’re really exploring is differentiating them by having Curtis be more like Cisco on The Flash. We want him to be a bit more hands-on, a little more about building physical tech.”
Click to expand...
Look for the Legends of Tomorrow crew to cross paths with a
circa-1942 Albert Einstein in Season 2, but they’re disillusioned to discover that the legendary scientist is a snarky, brusque skirt-chaser. Needless to say, he proves to be quite a handful when they attempt to save his life.
Click to expand...

Also the Comic Con schedule has been announced, all the DC TV usual are there.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Both of those covers are great. Almost makes me want to pick up the Blurays for both. Almost.
 
P

Psykoboy2

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Both of those covers are great. Almost makes me want to pick up the Blurays for both. Almost.
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of steelbook releases. More so when they use alt art different from the movie poster or whatever. So yeah, these are on my list. Would love to get one for Supergirl and Legends as well.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
ZeroX03 said:
Relive Arrow's greatest moment!

supersuit-1443560517.gif
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Ugh. I love Green Arrow; the character, the mythos, the style and relationships from the comics. But I have a VERY hard time liking the SHOW Arrow. It feels like they don't understand what was GOOD about the comics version. Or they know and for some reason don't think it would make for good TV.
 
T

Tabby

Member
VanWinkle said:
Ugh. I love Green Arrow; the character, the mythos, the style and relationships from the comics. But I have a VERY hard time liking the SHOW Arrow. It feels like they don't understand what was GOOD about the comics version. Or they know and for some reason don't think it would make for good TV.
Click to expand...

That's probably why you don't like it then. This show really does just taking a steaming pile of dump on the GA mythos and lore.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
It was clear from the start that Arrow was Batman-lite. I'm not sure why anyone would be sticking around hoping for that at this point, he's never going to run around calling himself a social justice warrior.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
VanWinkle said:
Ugh. I love Green Arrow; the character, the mythos, the style and relationships from the comics. But I have a VERY hard time liking the SHOW Arrow. It feels like they don't understand what was GOOD about the comics version. Or they know and for some reason don't think it would make for good TV.
Click to expand...

I like Arrow but it's pretty clear they would've made a Batman TV show if they could've at the time. They basically took everything that works about Batman's formula and applied it to Green Arrow. Creatively speaking it's a bit cynical since some might take that as not having respect for the source material. But the other side of the coin is that it worked. Arrow spearheaded a renewed interest in putting the big names on TV. It gives Green Arrow a boost in relevance in the comics too. I'm sure there are people who got into reading GA because of Arrow.

Not holding my breath to see a "true" Green Arrow anytime soon. DC Animated isn't taking the risk unless they can shoehorn Batman or the rest of the Justice League into it. And there don't seem to be any live action film plans in the near future.
 
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