Support NeoGAF

[TheGreatDave]

Mass Effect's cinemas have always looked boring and awkward to me. Hopefully the game will be enjoyable if you don't enjoy watching plastic looking people have un-natural conversations. I found the dialogue in Gears of War much more convincing than anything I've seen of Mass Effect.

 

[Imperial Hot]

Everybody who has seen the game has been blown away, except for the Destructoid guys....


Well, I don't really give a fuck about what Destructoid thinks...

 

[MaizeRage25]

Christ. What an idiot.

Oh, and the game is in third person, buddy. Small detail.

 

[Maximilian E.]

So.. where they watching Mass Effect thinking it was an FPS?
You cannot just "stand by and watch" an RPG game to make a valid statement about it, you have to play it through... and preferaly from start...

this reaks..

 

[MaizeRage25]

I found the dialogue in Gears of War much more convincing than anything I've seen of Mass Effect.

Wait, was that a compliment for Gears of War's dialogue?

I hope not.

 

[Sullichin]

A post from that terrible shitty site doesn't even warrant a thread here.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Wait, was that a compliment for Gears of War's dialogue?

I hope not.

It was a complement for the way it was delivered, not the script itself. Mass Effect so far is:

Shepard: "Hey, how are you"

...

Alien: "*three sentences without interruption or feedback*

...

Shepard: "I see. Sounds interesting..."

...

Alien: "*two sentences without interruption or feedback*"

...

Shepard: "Where do they come from?"

...

Alien: "*four sentences in one fixed camera angle without interruption or feedback*".

...

Shepard: "I see. Thank you".


If I saw that in a cinema I'd walk out. They could have a killer story and a good script but the way the game handles speech is like an old adventure game with voice over. There's nothing natural about the way people speak, unlike Gears which had characters that you believed were really interacting with one another.

 

[MaizeRage25]

Heh, it was my understanding that you could interrupt people in mid-conversation in Mass Effect.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Heh, it was my understanding that you could interrupt people in mid-conversation in Mass Effect.

Even if you can, it's just the way the game has a slight pause between people saying things and getting a response, and un-naturally long dialogue from characters to people that barely respond. It's Phoenix Wright with voice acting. Nothing about it feels real to me. The segment on the 1Up Show turned me on to the combat but really put me off the story telling.

 

[Merovingian]

It was a complement for the way it was delivered, not the script itself. Mass Effect so far is:

Shepard: "Hey, how are you"

...

Alien: "*three sentences without interruption or feedback*

...

Shepard: "I see. Sounds interesting..."

...

Alien: "*two sentences without interruption or feedback*"

...

Shepard: "Where do they come from?"

...

Alien: "*four sentences in one fixed camera angle without interruption or feedback*".

...

Shepard: "I see. Thank you".


If I saw that in a cinema I'd walk out. They could have a killer story and a good script but the way the game handles speech is like an old adventure game with voice over. There's nothing natural about the way people speak, unlike Gears which had characters that you believed were really interacting with one another.

For fucks sakes you can start talking whenever you want, it's your choice to let the bitch finish whatever she's saying or not. If people knew about this game enough it would seem clear that such complaints are retared. And plastic people my ass btw, those plastic people kick the stuff on my wii back to the 70s. (Or any other game on other system, but i've read your posts before...)

/rant (sorry couldn't hold on any longer after reading some of the crap here, like the Resistence stuff, ahahaha, anyway i'm out, i'm starting to read too much gaf again, Gaf is bad for my nervous system )

 

[Speevy]

Bioware games are all about the dialogue. You really learn much more about the world you're inhabiting through talking to the characters.

 

[RSTEIN]

Even if you can, it's just the way the game has a slight pause between people saying things and getting a response, and un-naturally long dialogue from characters to people that barely respond. It's Phoenix Wright with voice acting. Nothing about it feels real to me. The segment on the 1Up Show turned me on to the combat but really put me off the story telling.

LOL, what if the final build of Mass Effect has an awful story/voice acting but great combat? It would be the total opposite of my expectations.

 

[TheGreatDave]

For fucks sakes you can start talking whenever you want, it's your choice to let the bitch finish whatever she's saying or not. If people knew about this game enough it would seem clear that such complaints are retared. And plastic people my ass btw, those plastic people kick the stuff on my wii back to the 70s. (Or any other game on other system, but i've read your posts before...)

/rant (sorry couldn't hold on any longer after reading some of the crap here, like the Resistence stuff, ahahaha, anyway i'm out, i'm starting to read too much gaf again, Gaf is bad for my nervous system )

You can't start talking whenever you want, can you? From what I've seen the person speaks for awhile, then some options pop up at the bottom of the screen for you to pick. That's hardly "whenever you want". Besides, that doesn't stop the dialogue sounding completely un-natural. Which is fine when it's text based, but when I have to listen to these characters it's going to get old real fast unless it's compelling.

LOL, what if the final build of Mass Effect has an awful story/voice acting but great combat? It would be the total opposite of my expectations.

The scene in the 1Up Show where your controlling the three guys at once in a battle looks so good I'll buy the game just for those parts.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well, I cannot speak for the quality of Mass Effect yet, but I can speak for the quality of Destructoid: it fucking sucks.

 

[Luckyman]

Wow.. what is this shit?

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

The comments on the VA seem spot on; it's been decidedly terrible in every demo they have shown, although I suppose the artificial, nose-in-the-page delivery has somehow matched the general style of the game.

 

[Merovingian]

You can't start talking whenever you want, can you? From what I've seen the person speaks for awhile, then some options pop up at the bottom of the screen for you to pick. That's hardly "whenever you want". Besides, that doesn't stop the dialogue sounding completely un-natural.

Ok i'm gonna give it another go. You have multiple behaviour options, you choose from behavious, not so much for sentences, and you can choose to talk whenever you want. Read about the game.

And it's not a question about it sounding un-natural, it's about it being heads and shoulders about other games.

Obviously, nobody expects for every freaking npc dialogue to look like something out of a movie, but what is there is better than anything we have, and it looks fucking awesome (Pardon my french).

/out

The comments on the VA seem spot on; it's been decidedly terrible in every demo they have shown, although I suppose the artificial, nose-in-the-page delivery has somehow matched the general style of the game.

A guy that goes on a mission to defend every PS3 game from Previews and Reviews of respectable publications, comes here to agree with destructoid. That definitily matches the borderline retarded style of yours.

 

[nelkon and parker]

I suppose the artificial, nose-in-the-page delivery has somehow matched the general style of the game.

Eh?

 

[TheGreatDave]

Ok i'm gonna give it another go. You have multiple behaviour options, you choose from behavious, not so much for sentences, and you can choose to talk whenever you want. Read about the game.

And it's not a question about it sounding un-natural, it's about it being heads and shoulders about other games.

Obviously, nobody expects for every freaking npc dialogue to look like something out of a movie, but what is there is better than anything we have, and it looks fucking awesome (Pardon my french).

/out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACga70onoU4

That looks fucking awesome to you?

I don't think it's head and shoulders above other games. Gears of War had characters I liked having conversations that sounded real. By having a game like this where you pick the dialogue it breaks the flow of the conversation and makes the whole thing sound ridiculous. I'd rather the game be text based (and I really hope there is an option for that) than have these horrible sounding conversations.

I don't lower my expectations for story telling just because it's a game, and when your main selling point is conversations that sound horrible I think it's a perfectly valid complaint.

 

[nelkon and parker]

Double post

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I'll be the judge. Random internet dummies don't influence me.

 

[Cold-Steel]

So let me get this straight...

Jade Empire > Mass Effect

???

 

[dante786]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACga70onoU4

That looks fucking awesome to you?

I don't think it's head and shoulders above other games. Gears of War had characters I liked having conversations that sounded real. By having a game like this where you pick the dialogue it breaks the flow of the conversation and makes the whole thing sound ridiculous. I'd rather the game be text based (and I really hope there is an option for that) than have these horrible sounding conversations.

I don't lower my expectations for story telling just because it's a game, and when your main selling point is conversations that sound horrible I think it's a perfectly valid complaint.

I thought that sounded completely fine, Shepard might be a little stiff, but what do you want in terms of dialouge breaking the flow of dialogue, this is the nature of this game and this exposition, and I think Mass Effect seems to be doing it very well....what do you want here, seriously??

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

A guy that goes on a mission to defend every PS3 game from Previews and Reviews of respectable publications, comes here to agree with destructoid. That definitily matches the borderline retarded style of yours.

Based on what I've seen of the dialog in the game, Destructoid, whoever they are, seem to be right on the mark regarding that aspect of the game. Do you have something to say in response to my comment, or are you going to just stick with the nerdy board drama angle? Should I assume you agree with me or what?

 

[TheGreatDave]

I thought that sounded completely fine, Shepard might be a little stiff, but what do you want in terms of dialouge breaking the flow of dialogue, this is the nature of this game and this exposition, and I think Mass Effect seems to be doing it very well....what do you want here, seriously??

I think they're doing the best they can with the tech. But the tech isn't there yet to give me an experience I can enjoy. I'd much rather read than hear something that disjointed. If you're going to do voice acting, don't make it branching, because it just sounds horrible.

 

[PapiShasho]

I'll wait until I see a full review from someone who played for hours. Someone who watched someone play it for 20 minutes can't possibly give a valid review on it.

 

[dante786]

I think they're doing the best they can with the tech. But the tech isn't there yet to give me an experience I can enjoy. I'd much rather read than hear something that disjointed. If you're going to do voice acting, don't make it branching, because it just sounds horrible.

How does the tech enter into this though, and I'm not a fanboy or accusing you of bashing anything like that, just really curious, I mean, how can this type of game be done without branching, i would argue its pretty necessary for it to be the type of game it is. Do you want an alternative, or you just hate the way it sounds? I mean i assume you mean u hated dialogue style in KOTOR and Morrowind, Jade Empire, Oblivion, etc...

I dont see how more technology would change how this could work, I mean, Mass effect has refined the speech dialogue process even moreso compared to other games of this type, guess Im just trying to find out what you would like to see as an alternative.

 

[TheGreatDave]

How does the tech enter into this though, and I'm not a fanboy or accusing you of bashing anything like that, just really curious, I mean, how can this type of game be done without branching, i would argue its pretty necessary for it to be the type of game it is. Do you want an alternative, or you just hate the way it sounds? I mean i assume you mean u hated dialogue style in KOTOR and Morrowind, Jade Empire, Oblivion, etc...

I dont see how more technology would change how this could work, I mean, Mass effect has refined the speech dialogue process even moreso compared to other games of this type, guess Im just trying to find out what you would like to see as an alternative.

I don't think there is an alternative at the minute other than having every possible conversation tree acted and recorded, which is obviously impossible. But if all I was doing was watching Mass Effect be played for 20 minutes I can imagine I'd be amazingly bored too. I think game designers are aiming for things that just can't be done to a satisfactory degree. This whole "We're interactive movies" mentality just exposes the medium.

 

[Yoboman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACga70onoU4

That looks fucking awesome to you?

I don't think it's head and shoulders above other games. Gears of War had characters I liked having conversations that sounded real. By having a game like this where you pick the dialogue it breaks the flow of the conversation and makes the whole thing sound ridiculous. I'd rather the game be text based (and I really hope there is an option for that) than have these horrible sounding conversations.

I don't lower my expectations for story telling just because it's a game, and when your main selling point is conversations that sound horrible I think it's a perfectly valid complaint.

The pauses came from having to wait for the player. There's not much that can be done about that. Don't be so ridiculously picky

 

[TheGreatDave]

The pauses came from having to wait for the player. There's not much that can be done about that. Don't be so ridiculously picky

That's not my only issue though. If you took a possible conversation tree and wrote it down as a script, and then had two actors act it out on camera it would sound terrible. The way people speak is so unrealistic, it's like somebody is being asked questions at a job interview. There's no interaction mid-sentence, people just sing off these little paragraphs of information until Shepard asks another question. That's what it's been like in all the footage I've seen. The scene with the blue chick was just painful to watch.

 

[dante786]

I don't think there is an alternative at the minute other than having every possible conversation tree acted and recorded, which is obviously impossible. But if all I was doing was watching Mass Effect be played for 20 minutes I can imagine I'd be amazingly bored too. I think game designers are aiming for things that just can't be done to a satisfactory degree. This whole "We're interactive movies" mentality just exposes the medium.

I dunno, I can certainly see you're complaint, you don't like this style of storytelling it seems cumbersome to you i guess...but I would certainly disagree on the issue of whether or not this can be done to a satisfactory degree, I think these games are fantastic and they aren't trying to be interactive movies, theyre just being great videogames, for some of us at least.

I loved KOTOR, Oblivion, etc...The style of dialouge doesnt bother me in the least and I find the games really enjoyable. I think its just a question of preference....I really don't dig on JRPGs for a variety of reasons, I don't want to put words in your mouth but i get the feeling this type of game just isn't your thing. Whatever though, we all have different opinions i guess.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I dunno, I can certainly see you're complaint, you don't like this style of storytelling it seems cumbersome to you i guess...but I would certainly disagree on the issue of whether or not this can be done to a satisfactory degree, I think these games are fantastic and they aren't trying to be interactive movies, theyre just being great videogames, for some of us at least.

I loved KOTOR, Oblivion, etc...The style of dialouge doesnt bother me in the least and I find the games really enjoyable. I think its just a question of preference....I really don't dig on JRPGs for a variety of reasons, I don't want to put words in your mouth but i get the feeling this type of game just isn't your thing. Whatever though, we all have different opinions i guess.

I'm sure tons of people will love Mass Effect. But the article referenced in the first post basically summed up my views pretty completely. Difference is I'm still very interested in it because it's depth in terms of locations and it's action sequences.

 

[X26]

Mass Effect's cinemas have always looked boring and awkward to me. Hopefully the game will be enjoyable if you don't enjoy watching plastic looking people have un-natural conversations. I found the dialogue in Gears of War much more convincing than anything I've seen of Mass Effect.

Yea as non-existent as Gear's story was, the voice acting was top notch

 

[rollingstart]

so, some people watch a game being played and say it doesnt look good? but at E3 most people here saw the Gamespot video of the game being played and it looked beyond amazing.

I dont get why we need some middleman to tell us how a video looked without him playing the game itself. I can understand how someone would judge Mass Effect if they were misinformed or ignorant thinking the game was a linear shooter.

 

[TheGreatDave]

LOOK AT ALL DAT JUICE!

When you heard that, you felt it. COLE TRAIN.

 

[bud]

wow, four pages on a ''preview'' by some guy, who didn't even play the game, from some blog we've never heard of.

 

[Bluemercury]

"Nothing to see here.....move along!"

 

[Slavik81]

Even if you can, it's just the way the game has a slight pause between people saying things and getting a response, and un-naturally long dialogue from characters to people that barely respond. It's Phoenix Wright with voice acting. Nothing about it feels real to me. The segment on the 1Up Show turned me on to the combat but really put me off the story telling.

That was exactly what I got out of it. The voice acting has line breaks in it.

And I'm not sure whether this is better or worse than the old voice acting with subtitles. I'd always read the line and skip to the next by their third or fourth word. I tried playing without subtitles and it was just ridiculously slow. Unfortunately, there was no option to turn off the voice acting entirely. It was ruining the experience to hear somebody say, "The key is in-- You'll have t-- Here, take m-- Good luck."

On the plus side, they seemed to have fixed up the combat greatly. I'm still a little bitter over the lack of melee combat, but the options for battling look great.

 

[xbhaskarx]

"The gameplay looks like your standard FPS fare..."

So not only does this moron not know what the FPS genre is, he may not even know what "first person" means...

 

[BamYouHaveAids]

Maybe the reason he couldn't see all the awesome gameplay is because his face was fused with a cheeseburger. Fattyboomlatty. The great voice acting was probably drowned out by the sound of him scarfing down his lovely treat. Eat a salad, jerk.

I told him guys, no need to keep this thread to remain open.

 

[FFChris]

The way I see it, Mass Effect seems to have suffered a little by making these interactive cut-scene style dialogue system.

Not because the dialogue is any different to a normal 30-40 hour RPG, but because people are taking it as dialogue from an 8 hour action game. Mass Effect isn't a game where you have to scroll through a linear sequence of converstations, Bioware can't do hundreds of hours of dialogue in Heavenly Sword style cutscene.

Some of you guys are forgetting that you can skip the vast majority of conversation in Mass Effect if you like, these conversation where you are getting backstory of character aren't compuslory. If you're bored by it, it's not a linear game, you can skip it all.

 

[Sypher]

Time to check this guys review/preview history, amirite guys?

 

[Dante]

Like Heavenly Sword and even LAIR......I'll judge for myself.

wow, four pages on a ''preview'' by some guy, who didn't even play the game, from some blog we've never heard of.

They are pretty big actually, but see above.

 

[mcgarrett]

Mass Effect has the most incredible facial animation of any game ever (at the time I saw it, anyway...Heavenly Sword tops it in cutscenes, IMO)

The actual facial animation itself from the "Transmission" clip was nice -- eyes moving around, etc. But I tend to agree that the faces look pretty wooden, lifeless and puppet-like, because the animation isn't really helping to convey any emotions. If that clip were from a scifi movie the commander would have been frowning/scowling/wincing as he watched the footage, but he just sort of sat there with a blank look on his face.

 

[Haunted]

I was very impressed from the videos shown so far. It's a pity that he didn't really like the game - 'ho-hum'.


Previews are often relatively worthless (both positive and negative ones) - reviews are where the truth comes out.

 

[SonofdonCD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACga70onoU4

That looks fucking awesome to you?

I don't think it's head and shoulders above other games. Gears of War had characters I liked having conversations that sounded real. By having a game like this where you pick the dialogue it breaks the flow of the conversation and makes the whole thing sound ridiculous. I'd rather the game be text based (and I really hope there is an option for that) than have these horrible sounding conversations.

I don't lower my expectations for story telling just because it's a game, and when your main selling point is conversations that sound horrible I think it's a perfectly valid complaint.

How does this conversation sound horrible though? I just don't get the complaint.

When the characters are actually speaking, there is no halt in dialog. The halt came from the player waiting till after the NPC finished speaking to look at his options and respond. And as it's been said umpteen times already, you can choose a response BEFORE the NPC is finished speaking.

That's not my only issue though. If you took a possible conversation tree and wrote it down as a script, and then had two actors act it out on camera it would sound terrible. The way people speak is so unrealistic, it's like somebody is being asked questions at a job interview. There's no interaction mid-sentence, people just sing off these little paragraphs of information until Shepard asks another question. That's what it's been like in all the footage I've seen. The scene with the blue chick was just painful to watch.

I can finally see what your point is, but how else could these conversations flow with you having control over them? Essentially, in these games, you are a detective, and you have to discover information. Think of the Law and Order shows. They go to witnesses and such and ask questions. The witness answers the best of their ability, and the cops/lawyers just listen and wait for them to be done speaking, before responding themselves. What more can they do? How do you want them to speak instead? You're out to get information, why would you be constantly interrupting them?

However, I'm pretty sure there will be some regular cutscenes where you don't have control and the dialogue will be much more fluid.

 

[Cmagus]

I haven't played the game but to be honest everytime I see a video I feel this way.Yes it looks amazing but it kind of looks really boring gameplay wise

 

[TheGreatDave]

I can finally see what your point is, but how else could these conversations flow with you having control over them? Essentially, in these games, you are a detective, and you have to discover information. Think of the Law and Order shows. They go to witnesses and such and ask questions. The witness answers the best of their ability, and the cops/lawyers just listen and wait for them to be done speaking, before responding themselves. What more can they do? How do you want them to speak instead? You're out to get information, why would you be constantly interrupting them?

However, I'm pretty sure there will be some regular cutscenes where you don't have control and the dialogue will be much more fluid.

Well, for example, I'd rather have slightly less control but more realistic sounding dialgue. Shepard says "Sounds kinda boring...and lonely *rise eyebrow*" and then the other character goes on a rant. Why doesn't Shepard say something, the other character say what they need to say, and then Shepard says something sort of casual that isn't a "pick your question" type of thing? Have Shepard interrupt in a believable way while not asking me to pick another option.

The way it is now it's long rants from one character to another, and there's no real emotion in anything. Just give me some sort of feedback from one character another. Shepard could just go "hmm" or something while the other person is talking about something he needs to know about. When I select the question to be asked it'd be nice if Shepard asks one or two questions (without me telling him what to say) to make his point. It may sound nitpicky but I hate how broken up and segmented the script sounds, and it could be fixed if they just added some character feedback.

 

[abacab driver]

Gears of War had characters I liked having conversations that sounded real.

:lol

 

[TheGreatDave]

:lol

It did! The script may be stupid and lack any real kind of depth but the great success of that game outside of it's cover system is the way the characters talked to one another.