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[FFChris]

It did! The script may be stupid and lack any real kind of depth but the great success of that game outside of it's cover system is the way the characters talked to one another.

That's the thing though, Gears had fully scripted cut scenes following a set, linear story. This is a completely different style of game, in Gears you weren't picking out the questions you wanted to ask...you in essence were watching a little movie. That's not what Mass Effect does.

 

[Raist]

Well, the dialogue parts sure look nice, but something with the characters and their expressions seems completely off to me... I don't know what it is exactly, maybe they look a bit lifeless, almost robotic.

 

[mm04]

Well, thankfully this is 2 months and some change away and some people in this thread will be eating some serious crow one way or another. It will be a joyous time for all!

 

[TheGreatDave]

That's the thing though, Gears had fully scripted cut scenes following a set, linear story. This is a completely different style of game, in Gears you weren't picking out the questions you wanted to ask...you in essence were watching a little movie. That's not what Mass Effect does.

I accept that you need a delay where the player picks a response in Mass Effect. But even with that the script and the acting in the game seem incredibly disjointed, and it's nothing that they couldn't overcome if they'd thought it through a bit. Like I said, if you have Shepard do a little bit of talking on his own and make the conversations themselves more believable and less "Question/Long Response/Question" you can overcome the issues to a degree. The fact is Mass Effect is forcing me to watch little movies, and if they're not going to be done in a high quality way I'd rather they not bother.

 

[∀ Narayan]

You call this a "Preview"? Where the fuck are the impressions? :lol

Fuck Destructoid. They should be censored.

 

[FFChris]

I accept that you need a delay where the player picks a response in Mass Effect. But even with that the script and the acting in the game seem incredibly disjointed, and it's nothing that they couldn't overcome if they'd thought it through a bit. Like I said, if you have Shepard do a little bit of talking on his own and make the conversations themselves more believable and less "Question/Long Response/Question" you can overcome the issues to a degree. The fact is Mass Effect is forcing me to watch little movies, and if they're not going to be done in a high quality way I'd rather they not bother.

Fair enough, I suppose that makes sense. I like the fact that you can take a conversation roughly your own way rather than just clicking to queue up a movie, but I can see where you are coming from.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

In future everyone speaks like that

"I am the robotic voice, don't interrupt me."
..
..
..
"O-kay"

 

[derder]

Standard FPS fare? :lol

Thats what it looks like to me. I keep watching the videos, but it just looks like a mediocre FPS.

Before I'm torn to shreds - I'm just saying thats what it looks like from watching the combat.

 

[∀ Narayan]

That's not my only issue though. If you took a possible conversation tree and wrote it down as a script, and then had two actors act it out on camera it would sound terrible. The way people speak is so unrealistic, it's like somebody is being asked questions at a job interview. There's no interaction mid-sentence, people just sing off these little paragraphs of information until Shepard asks another question. That's what it's been like in all the footage I've seen. The scene with the blue chick was just painful to watch.

Are you not familiar with BioWare, or something? Pretty much ALL of their RPGs have been like this.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Thats what it looks like to me. I keep watching the videos, but it just looks like a mediocre FPS.

Before I'm torn to shreds - I'm just saying thats what it looks like from watching the combat.

Its a third person tactical shooter...

Some of you people...

 

[SonofdonCD]

Well, for example, I'd rather have slightly less control but more realistic sounding dialgue. Shepard says "Sounds kinda boring...and lonely *rise eyebrow*" and then the other character goes on a rant. Why doesn't Shepard say something, the other character say what they need to say, and then Shepard says something sort of casual that isn't a "pick your question" type of thing? Have Shepard interrupt in a believable way while not asking me to pick another option.

The way it is now it's long rants from one character to another, and there's no real emotion in anything. Just give me some sort of feedback from one character another. Shepard could just go "hmm" or something while the other person is talking about something he needs to know about. When I select the question to be asked it'd be nice if Shepard asks one or two questions (without me telling him what to say) to make his point. It may sound nitpicky but I hate how broken up and segmented the script sounds, and it could be fixed if they just added some character feedback.

While I can sort of see where you're coming from, don't you think it's more than a little early to say that this game doesn't have what you're asking for, considering we've only seen very little of this game?

Of all the media I've seen of this game, I've only seen three or four conversations between Shepard and other characters. Besides Shepard sounding a little stiff in his delivery a few times, I was pretty much blown away by what I was seeing. But even if I wasn't, that was three or four of probably hundreds upon hundreds of conversations that you will have in this game.

Besides, like I said earlier, you're out to get info. I'd want to be very concentrated on listening to what the NPC's have to say and not interrupting unless necessary, wouldn't you? This isn't a buddy comedy like Superbad, this is a Sci-Fi/Action epic. How else could Shepard respond? I for the life of me can't think of what to change as far as his dialogue that I've heard so far (besides his actual delivery). Besides, how often do you really say "Hmmm..." in a conversation with somebody? When I find myself doing it I think it rather stupid, personally.

What you're asking for will not be achievable until AI becomes sophisticated that we can just talk to it and it'll respond in kind.

 

[rollingstart]

Its a third person tactical shooter...

Some of you people...

not only that, but its still an RPG.

would people consider KOTOR a turn based hack and slash game? no, it was an rpg and combat was only one part of the game (and wasnt even the best part).

 

[Evlar]

I don't know whether Destructoid is or is not full of shit but I am plenty willing to be skeptical toward Mass Effect because, you see, I purchased at full price and played portions of Jade Empire.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Are you not familiar with BioWare, or something? Pretty much ALL of their RPGs have been like this.

I'm not familiar with them actually, for I never owned an Xbox. Just because I'm not familiar with their games doesn't mean I'm a much a target for their affection as anybody else though.

What you're asking for will not be achievable until AI becomes sophisticated that we can just talk to it and it'll respond in kind.

I do think there are ways they could have overcame these problems and made the game have a bit more character though. I agree that Shepard is trying to get info and maybe I'm being too hard on it because I want something more resembling true conversations, but I just want them to talk to one another like they're in the room, not on the telephone.

 

[Merovingian]

I accept that you need a delay where the player picks a response in Mass Effect. But even with that the script and the acting in the game seem incredibly disjointed, and it's nothing that they couldn't overcome if they'd thought it through a bit. Like I said, if you have Shepard do a little bit of talking on his own and make the conversations themselves more believable and less "Question/Long Response/Question" you can overcome the issues to a degree. The fact is Mass Effect is forcing me to watch little movies, and if they're not going to be done in a high quality way I'd rather they not bother.

Jesus christ.

Have you ever played a bioware RPG before? Have still not understood that you don't have to wait to talkt? Haven't you understood that most of what you see of the NPC talk is the same thing you see in any other RPG when you talk to a NPC, and if you want to ask a question you have to select something at the end of the npc speech? But just worlds better? Because here even a shitty NPC conversation can at least be fun!?

More important moments will allow for a greater degree of acting, but you can't do it for everything.

Seriously, it's starting to sound that you are bitching just to bitch. Go read some impressions, go check cutcenes where the dialogue of another character is cut in the middle by Shepard, and actually sees him take an offensive stance as he grabs the other characters and gives him an order.

What Mass Effect is doing is allowing you to develop your character fully, and that means your personality and what you say in realtime. I get this feeling that you still haven't understood that, that this is an RPG, that the way you talk to other characters affects the game, and you can in fact manipulate some of the flow of the conversation.

But i don't think you've grasped that concept, i mean you even made an hilarious comparison to Gears of War. Hey maybe this just isn't for you, but please, stop comparing this to scripted cutcenes in a 8 game, its painfull to read.

 

[Vaporak]

Its a third person tactical shooter...

Some of you people...

Pulling the camera back and to the right isn't the significant gameplay change that you seem to be making it out to be...

 

[Merovingian]

Pulling the camera back and to the right isn't the significant gameplay change that you seem to be making it out to be...

Cover. Team Based game. Ability to stop the game and give orders (Ala turn based).

I dunno, seems like in these days every game that has gun in it is labeled a first person shooter in this forum.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Can we ban destructoid? Thanks.

 

[Chairman Yang]

So what are the special qualities of the Mass Effect combat system that make it something more than a generic shooter? Because it sure isn't impressing me so far, and quibbles with Destructoid's stupidity aside, I haven't seen people addressing their core points.

 

[rollingstart]

So what are the special qualities of the Mass Effect combat system that make it something more than a generic shooter? Because it sure isn't impressing me so far, and quibbles with Destructoid's stupidity aside, I haven't seen people addressing their core points.

because it is an RPG and not a shooter, so having decent squad combat in an RPG is a step up.

 

[TheGreatDave]

But i don't think you've grasped that concept, i mean you even made an hilarious comparison to Gears of War. Hey maybe this just isn't for you, but please, stop comparing this to scripted cutcenes in a 8 game, its painfull to read.

It's a valid comparison. When Fenix speaks to a character they respond instantly, and he makes a believeable remark at the end. I've said I expect a delay when the user is picking an option, but the script itself is completely bland and uninteresting. I don't care if it's a "Bioware RPG", if you're selling me a game where I have to watch endless amounts of conversation you better make it more compelling that what I've seen so far.

 

[Omar Ismail]

I dunno, seems like in these days every game that has gun in it is labeled a first person shooter in this forum.

Except for Metroid Prime. Which is a First Person Adventure

 

[SonofdonCD]

It's a valid comparison. When Fenix speaks to a character they respond instantly, and he makes a believeable remark at the end. I've said I expect a delay when the user is picking an option, but the script itself is completely bland and uninteresting. I don't care if it's a "Bioware RPG", if you're selling me a game where I have to watch endless amounts of conversation you better make it more compelling that what I've seen so far.

Why are you still saying this?!

You can choose to respond before the NPC is done speaking! How many more times must it be said?! The options come up well before the NPC stops speaking, and each emotion (i.e. happy/nice, angry, neutral, etc.) is attached to its own button, so that you don't even have to look at the options if you know just how you want to respond. This game's conversations will flow according to how you want it to flow.m

When you strip away parts of your complaints, the one that seems valid enough is the script. We don't know how the overall script is, as of course we haven't played it. (neither, however, has the editor who wrote this ill-conceived preview) But to most, it seems adequate enough so far. And I have no doubt that Bioware will come through on that front, cause say what you will about KOTOR or Jade Empire, but their dialogue was great.

 

[Merovingian]

It's a valid comparison. When Fenix speaks to a character they respond instantly, and he makes a believeable remark at the end. I've said I expect a delay when the user is picking an option, but the script itself is completely bland and uninteresting. I don't care if it's a "Bioware RPG", if you're selling me a game where I have to watch endless amounts of conversation you better make it more compelling that what I've seen so far.

Sure it's a valid complaint, unfortunately RPGs won't be your cup of tea, ever, if that's your standard for any kind of game (MP3 and zelda probably suck hun? The main character doesn't even open his mouth, that's pretty awesome...). But, i recommed you to either try KOTOR (Best RPG of last gen imo) or Jade Empire (Great Action RPG in my opinion -and by many reviews too-) in your 360, play them with BC.

So what are the special qualities of the Mass Effect combat system that make it something more than a generic shooter? Because it sure isn't impressing me so far, and quibbles with Destructoid's stupidity aside, I haven't seen people addressing their core points.

Everything has been adressed. Regarding the combat, well its a RPG as said before by other posters. The depth that will come from the weapons upgrades, power upgrades, equipment, combinations of all of those things, + the fact that you can pause combat and give commands in a turn based fashion if you so choose to.

It IS a RPG people. You don't see me going "Oh well, just what makes FFXII combat so interesting? Ninja Gaiden stomps on that shit, if you wanna do action focused gameplay well....". No you simply can't because ultimaly, it's the RPG layer that is given to the combat that makes the difference.

 

[XSamu]

Fack this shit. Nonsense, they don't know shit. Mass Effect will be 360 GotY, believe don't hate.

 

[PleoMax]

The guy is just mad because the Mass Erection of the dude in front of him didn't allow him to see shit.

Because that's what happens when you check this game out.

 

[Slavik81]

Sure it's a valid complaint, unfortunately RPGs won't be your cup of tea, ever, if that's your standard for any kind of game (MP3 and zelda probably suck hun? The main character doesn't even open his mouth, that's pretty awesome...). But, i recommed you to either try KOTOR (Best RPG of last gen imo) or Jade Empire (Great Action RPG in my opinion -and by many reviews too-) in your 360, play them with BC.

I'd much prefer a game without voice acting if it's going to be badly done. I'd almost say Zelda's better from that perspective, but there have been a few instances in Zelda in which characters ask Link a direct question, get no response, then act as if they did. That doesn't work. We'll see about Metroid, since it's not out yet.

But if it's a question of well written text and terrible voice acting, I'll take the great text every time. My one of my main complaints with KotOR was bad voice acting, and the bad voice acting in Oblivion bugged me too.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Why are you still saying this?!

You can choose to respond before the NPC is done speaking! How many more times must it be said?! The options come up well before the NPC stops speaking, and each emotion (i.e. happy/nice, angry, neutral, etc.) is attached to its own button, so that you don't even have to look at the options if you know just how you want to respond. This game's conversations will flow according to how you want it to flow.m

I'm not saying you can't respond before the NPC is finished. I'm saying that if you listen to everything there will naturally be a little bit of a delay when they finish and you choose the option, and so that is unavoidable. I'm basically saying I was overly harsh.

I still think this is a matter of script so much as it is genre though, and there's no defence for the way in which Shepard barely says anything (from what I've seen) but the people he's talking to go on long rants. If the real game is different than that's fair enough; the video I've seen of the conversations have bored me, the videos of the galaxy map and combat have excited.

 

[Hunter D]

This guy is a joke.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Everything has been adressed. Regarding the combat, well its a RPG as said before by other posters. The depth that will come from the weapons upgrades, power upgrades, equipment, combinations of all of those things, + the fact that you can pause combat and give commands in a turn based fashion if you so choose to.

Jade Empire had those things (sort of) and had crap combat.

It IS a RPG people. You don't see me going "Oh well, just what makes FFXII combat so interesting? Ninja Gaiden stomps on that shit, if you wanna do action focused gameplay well....". No you simply can't because ultimaly, it's the RPG layer that is given to the combat that makes the difference.

There's good RPG combat and bad RPG combat. Just saying that the RPG layer will magically make the battles deep and interesting doesn't mean much--as Bioware has previously shown with their post-Baldur's Gate 2 output. If devs can't make interesting real-time combat in RPGs, even with all sorts of RPG elements, then maybe they shouldn't go in that direction.

 

[natethegreat409]

I may be one of the few people who doesn't care about voice acting. I read the subtitles and skip, except in cutscenes when you obviously can't.

I'm the same way. My hearing is pretty bad and I can never understand what people are saying. I def had to use subtitles for Bioshock. I couldn't hear a thing over those radios. I wish they would have sync'd the audio with the subtitles better though.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I hope we can turn voice acting off, not just put subtitles on. I can read much faster than somebody can act, and I can usually put a better voice to it in my head.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Hmmm...let's see....BioWare....a company with a track record of making great game after great game after great game....... that *somehow* is dropping the ball on arguably the *BIGGEST* title of their ENTIRE portfolio?

Yeah......riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Can I get a picardwtfisthisshit.gif please?

 

[TheGreatDave]

Hmmm...let's see....BioWare....a company with a track record of making great game after great game after great game....... that *somehow* is dropping the ball on arguably the *BIGGEST* title of their ENTIRE portfolio?

Yeah......riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Can I get a picardwtfisthisshit.gif please?

Mario Sunshine is gonna rock, guys!

 

[Draft]

Mario Sunshine is gonna rock, guys!

Shit, just use Jade Empire in that little slam. Bioware is not infallible and damn straight you have to consider Mass Effect may be a turd.

They are a 50/50 console developer. Believe it.

 

[Knox]

I think it's a lot to expect from a game as huge and open ended as Mass Effect to have dialogue that flows as well as cut scenes from a very constructed linear experience like Gears of War. In Gears the developers were able to carefully build every little piece of dialogue, with a game like Mass Effect that's just not possible (or even desired). I expect there will be more dialogue in the first hour of Mass Effect than there was in the entirety of Gears, so this comparison really is an unfair one. I think the comparison you have to make are with other RPG's of this type, and there isn't a comparison, Mass Effect blows everything else out of the water when it comes to the presentation of branching dialogue.

 

[PleoMax]

Shit, just use Jade Empire in that little slam. Bioware is not infallible and damn straight you have to consider Mass Effect may be a turd.

They are a 50/50 console developer. Believe it.

No they aren't, Jade Empire was good. 89% on gamerankings and my taste say so.

I have the upper hand.

 

[Lostconfused]

No they aren't, Jade Empire was good. 89% on gamerankings and my taste say so.

I have the upper hand.

Man you are really out there going against the popular opinion, but then again i also liked jade empire until gaf told me i shouldn't.

 

[PleoMax]

Man you are really out there going against the popular opinion, but then again i also liked jade empire until gaf told me i shouldn't.

Popular opinion on Gaf, whatever. People here say God hand is the best action game ever, that should tell you to make your own damn mind and stick to it, because Gaf has some pretty weird standards.

 

[bounchfx]

I don't understand how anyone could say the combat looks 'boring'. if you like third person shooters um, how can you complain? if you don't like them, fine, you can do it basically turn based, or you don't have to play.

if you liked KOTOR you will probably like this, unless you don't know how to use a joystick to aim.

I think it looks awesome, personally, because it lets me play it out faster in real time and more like a shooter (Which I prefer), but at the same time be able to use skills in real time or (like kotor) suspend the game to issue orders and queue up commands.

 

[abacab driver]

Some of the hate on this game is so forced, it's not even funny.
If you don't like Bioware, just say it.
If you don't like Mass Effect because its 360 exclusive, just say it.

Complaints like "THERES ALWAYS THAT SLIGHT PAUSE" is reaching so bad, when we all know that a general emotion/reaction is assigned to each of the dialogue branches.
It's not like after everything an NPC says you have 5 or more new responses to read and think about before you choose one.
You should already know how you want to react before the person is done speaking, hence why you can cut people off.

I hope we can turn voice acting off, not just put subtitles on. I can read much faster than somebody can act, and I can usually put a better voice to it in my head.

So you'd prefer that with every game that has conversation/voice actors then, right? Not just Mass Effect?

 

[dirtmonkey37]

To set the record, gamespot has detailed their impresssions and in a word, they're glowing.

A slight disparity in gaming preferences or not, I'm going to side with gamespot on this one.

 

[Kintaro]

New ME video from Gametrailers.

This might be the video that people are throwing up impressions on.

 

[GeneralIroh]

The animations for all the aliens look great but shepard and most of the humans are wooden. It looked really silly when shepard popped out of cover super quick and popped back. The running animation looks really goofy as well.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Shit, just use Jade Empire in that little slam. Bioware is not infallible and damn straight you have to consider Mass Effect may be a turd.

They are a 50/50 console developer. Believe it.

Let's see...for me....

Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 = Excellent Games (2 PC and 2 Console versions)

KOTOR 1 = Excellent Game (Part 2 wasn't them thank god)

Jade Empire = Excellent Game.

We're looking at what? 6 games now from Bioware that were excellent, fan favorite, memorable games. That's FAR more than the "average dev" these days. Far more.

 

[GashPrex]

this is possibly the dumbest thread i've read on GAF in 8 years...ok maybe top 5

 

[Alex]

I loved Jade Empire.

 

[Draft]

There's no way any of you genuinely enjoyed Jade Empire. You're lying to yourselves, to me, to the whole damn world. It's shameful.

 

[dfyb]

this thread is different than the others

 

[PleoMax]

There's no way any of you genuinely enjoyed Jade Empire. You're lying to yourselves, to me, to the whole damn world. It's shameful.

Shamefull my ass. The game is cool as ice.