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DF Retro: Doom - Every Console Port Tested!
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Triforce141
Member
I was wondering when Doom64 would show up, glad to see that game not ignored
John, or anyone really, how different are the versions of Doom for the PS3? That is, other than content, is there anything different in terms of the version included with Doom 3 BFG and the PSN Doom downloadable version? I always wondered...
Also, the real question is why cant we get Doom on the PS4 already?
There should just be a stable of old things that move forward onto new platforms. Tetris, Doom, PS1 games, etc. I wish I understood the economic and technology pressures that are guiding Sonys choices here.
I have owned (hopefully still own) Doom on PC, GBA (both versions), Jag, PS1. Not sure I ever had 32X or Saturn versions, even though I have owned a 32X and still own a Saturn.
Whats the frame rate on Atari 2600 Doom?
Also, the real question is why cant we get Doom on the PS4 already?
There should just be a stable of old things that move forward onto new platforms. Tetris, Doom, PS1 games, etc. I wish I understood the economic and technology pressures that are guiding Sonys choices here.
I have owned (hopefully still own) Doom on PC, GBA (both versions), Jag, PS1. Not sure I ever had 32X or Saturn versions, even though I have owned a 32X and still own a Saturn.
Whats the frame rate on Atari 2600 Doom?
This would actually be a really fun video, especially if there's ever a Pro/X patch.
Triforce141
Member
DOOM 2016 on the iPhone X6
Diablohead
Member
yeah that's true, but a shame since doom 1 gba was fine.
Oh that too, along with the shotgun change that's really something that breaks the flow of the game but at the time I had only played the shareware demo of doom 1 and the ps1 version so I never picked up on those differences all those years ago.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
An hour long....got to dedicate some time for this.
EDIT: Actually I enjoyed the videos being around the 20 minute mark. Hope you can do some more at that length. These long ones can be too much of a timesink. Also you should really do some star wars games in these DF Retros.
EDIT: Actually I enjoyed the videos being around the 20 minute mark. Hope you can do some more at that length. These long ones can be too much of a timesink. Also you should really do some star wars games in these DF Retros.
mysteriousmage09
Member
That was a great video, good stuff John!
OmegaDL50
Member
I wasn't fortunate enough to own a PC back in 1993.
I did not get my first PC until 1997 when the original Diablo came out.
I wasn't caught up in the DOOM craze until recently. In fact the very first FPS I thoroughly enjoyed was Quake III Arena.
With that said. I am more of a console player at heart despite owning a fairly high end gaming PC. I see different versions on Steam such as Ultimate DOOM and Final DOOM so I don't know the difference between either.
Is there a modern version of DOOM that takes advantage of modern 3D rendering techniques, rather than the pseudo-3D effect using layered 2D Sprites like the original game? I own DOOM 2016 for reference and I'm having fun with it. I wonder if someone recreated the original DOOM 1 and 2 using the Snapmap function?
So in short, what would be the best possible version of the original DOOM to play to this day?
I did not get my first PC until 1997 when the original Diablo came out.
I wasn't caught up in the DOOM craze until recently. In fact the very first FPS I thoroughly enjoyed was Quake III Arena.
With that said. I am more of a console player at heart despite owning a fairly high end gaming PC. I see different versions on Steam such as Ultimate DOOM and Final DOOM so I don't know the difference between either.
Is there a modern version of DOOM that takes advantage of modern 3D rendering techniques, rather than the pseudo-3D effect using layered 2D Sprites like the original game? I own DOOM 2016 for reference and I'm having fun with it. I wonder if someone recreated the original DOOM 1 and 2 using the Snapmap function?
So in short, what would be the best possible version of the original DOOM to play to this day?
Naked Snake
Member
That was one of the easiest hours I spent on YouTube. Great work John.
Have always loved and been fascinated by Doom, but to this day Doom 64 remains the only one I played from start to finish. I loved that one, and still owned the cart until last year when I sold most of my retro collection.
Have always loved and been fascinated by Doom, but to this day Doom 64 remains the only one I played from start to finish. I loved that one, and still owned the cart until last year when I sold most of my retro collection.
AgentOtaku
Member
OMG, CAN'T WAIT TO WATCH!
thank you DF!!!!!
thank you DF!!!!!
Mr. E. Yis
Banned
Great video guys. I loved Doom back in the day, and just last year I went on a Doom binge on the PS3 and played the Doom Classic Collection straight through. This video brought the itch back again, and I wish the collection was ported to PS4.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
The Ultimate Doom is Doom 1 + its final official episode
Doom 2 is Doom 2
Master Levels for Doom 2 and Final Doom are collections of old partnered and custom levels for Doom 2 , released as expansions for Doom 2
You can get opengl rendering by using source ports. I'm using GZDoom:
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/GZDoom
It's not too bad to set up, really simple stuff and a lot of readme files included. Go nuts!
ultimate doom is doom 1, final doom is a compilation of fan made stuff
i'd just get the combo pack from steam, play the games with gzdoom and then get into the wads later
D.Lo
Member
I skipped Doom 64 back in the day, as it felt like the world had moved on from pseudo-3D and it was seemed a bit of a relic.
I might grab a copy on ebay now. Funny going back how the 'modern' games like Turok 1/2, and even the top tech games like Perfect Dark, are much less playable now, but something simpler but solid wins in the long run. Same with stuff like 2D PS1 games still being great while choppy running swimming texture soup of Tomb Raider is a mess now. Performance wins in the end.
I might grab a copy on ebay now. Funny going back how the 'modern' games like Turok 1/2, and even the top tech games like Perfect Dark, are much less playable now, but something simpler but solid wins in the long run. Same with stuff like 2D PS1 games still being great while choppy running swimming texture soup of Tomb Raider is a mess now. Performance wins in the end.
Naked Snake
Member
I vividly remember the rave reviews the PlayStation version recieved in magazines back in the day. I wish I got that one at some point, but "Doom" felt old hat to me at the time and I dismissed it.
Edit: Haha D.Lo's post right above at the same time mirroring me sentiment of Doom on PlayStation except his towards Doom 64, which ironically I owned and loved.
Edit: Haha D.Lo's post right above at the same time mirroring me sentiment of Doom on PlayStation except his towards Doom 64, which ironically I owned and loved.
A Black Falcon
Member
Great episode! About the only thing I wish you'd mentioned that you don't is that Midway was responsible for the Playstation version and also for Doom 64. As the episode shows they did a great job with both of them! At minimum I think it'd have been good to mention that Doom 64 was made by the same studio, Midway San Diego, that has previously made Playstation Doom. Looking at the credits on Mobygames, the same guy is credited as programmer on both titles. Oh, and Midway San Diego's next game after that was the N64 port of Quake. (Quake 2 for the N64, however, is from a different studio since the rights moved from Midway to Activision for that one.)
Also one more thing. In the second on 3DO Doom, you mention that the programmer Rebecca Heineman went on to make Killing Time better in part because of what she learned from Doom. I believe she said that in a video about the making of 3DO Doom, but I've always found this hard to understand; Killing Time released months before 3DO Doom. Killing Time released in fall '95, specifically, while Doom doesn't seem to have released until early 1996. Was Doom really programmed first? If so, what accounts for the delays after that before its release...
Also you say that 'they printed 250,000 copies of 3DO Doom, the same number of copies as there were 3DOs', but this is not true; worldwide, at least, the 3DO sold over 1.4 million systems worldwide. Even in the US alone it sold at least 630,000 systems, from Panasonic only (ie not including the Goldstar model which has unknown sales, but was fairly common in the US at least so it probably sold decently): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407 I don't know how many copies of 3DO Doom Art Data printed, it may well have been far too many, but it was not literally the same number as the number of 3DO systems.
On another note, in my opinion, framerate and sticky walls aside I really like the SNES version of Doom. The game is slow but entirely playable, and it's the only console version of Doom 1 apart from the Xbox and X360/PS3 versions which has things like the map screen in between levels, the game broken down into three episodes, the PC version's story text blocks at the end of each episode, the boss fights against the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind which are absent in JagDoom and its ports); SNES Doom has only one missing enemy, the Spectre Demon. Etc. And as far as the gameplay goes, between the SNES and 32X, sure the 32X version has much better graphics and nearly twice the framerate, but the SNES version plays well enough for me at least and has way better music. I also think that sometimes that greater degree of PC accuracy helps the gameplay -- for instance, on the 32X, like you mention about the GBA version, all enemies are full brightness at all times, which looks terrible. On SNES enemies in darker areas properly look darker. There also aren't light-level changes in levels, such as places where the lights are supposed to go down. Some of that might be a JagDoom thing, but on SNES light-level differences exist like they should. Oh yeah, and the soundtrack is really good as well.
Also, while you can't save in SNES Doom, unfortunately, and yes this is a big problem -- seriously even a password system would have been really fantastic, this game is too long to have to play whole episodes in one sitting! -- they do do one really nice thing, which is that when you die you restart the level with exactly the weapons and ammo you entered it with. Some other versions which also don't have saving are not nearly as kind -- see the 3DO or 32X versions for example, both of which only "save" which levels you have reached and not any weapons, so when you die in a stage you always start with only the basic pistol at whichever level you start on. That's not fun. SNES Doom's solution is pretty good here. I have 3DO Doom, and that you have to go back to just the pistol every time you die is actually the biggest problem I have with that game, and it's why I stopped playing it. You can get used to the framerate, but not this... that is not how Doom was designed, the PC version has saving!
Obviously the game has plenty of other problems, such as that framerate, that enemies always face you, that the game feels like gameplay is slower than the PC version, that you can indeed get stuck on walls, and that five levels are missing from the PC game in this port (though it still has five levels more than the 32X version), but SNES Doom is a great game despite all that. I can understand why something framerate-focused like DF Retro would put it where it is in this list and the logic is reasonable, but SNES Doom is a lot of fun. I've finished the game on SNES and really liked it.
The really interesting thing about Doom 64 is how dramatically public opinion on the game changed over the years, though. I mean, when it released, Doom 64 was overlooked, considered a relic of a kind of FPS that was going out of favor by the time it released in 1997. There were also a lot of complaints for how dark the light levels are in the game (which is true, but intentional and works). But many years later, people looked at the game again and realized how great it was. It's a dramatic change from what people thought of the game when it released...
Also one more thing. In the second on 3DO Doom, you mention that the programmer Rebecca Heineman went on to make Killing Time better in part because of what she learned from Doom. I believe she said that in a video about the making of 3DO Doom, but I've always found this hard to understand; Killing Time released months before 3DO Doom. Killing Time released in fall '95, specifically, while Doom doesn't seem to have released until early 1996. Was Doom really programmed first? If so, what accounts for the delays after that before its release...
Also you say that 'they printed 250,000 copies of 3DO Doom, the same number of copies as there were 3DOs', but this is not true; worldwide, at least, the 3DO sold over 1.4 million systems worldwide. Even in the US alone it sold at least 630,000 systems, from Panasonic only (ie not including the Goldstar model which has unknown sales, but was fairly common in the US at least so it probably sold decently): http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=981407 I don't know how many copies of 3DO Doom Art Data printed, it may well have been far too many, but it was not literally the same number as the number of 3DO systems.
On another note, in my opinion, framerate and sticky walls aside I really like the SNES version of Doom. The game is slow but entirely playable, and it's the only console version of Doom 1 apart from the Xbox and X360/PS3 versions which has things like the map screen in between levels, the game broken down into three episodes, the PC version's story text blocks at the end of each episode, the boss fights against the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind which are absent in JagDoom and its ports); SNES Doom has only one missing enemy, the Spectre Demon. Etc. And as far as the gameplay goes, between the SNES and 32X, sure the 32X version has much better graphics and nearly twice the framerate, but the SNES version plays well enough for me at least and has way better music. I also think that sometimes that greater degree of PC accuracy helps the gameplay -- for instance, on the 32X, like you mention about the GBA version, all enemies are full brightness at all times, which looks terrible. On SNES enemies in darker areas properly look darker. There also aren't light-level changes in levels, such as places where the lights are supposed to go down. Some of that might be a JagDoom thing, but on SNES light-level differences exist like they should. Oh yeah, and the soundtrack is really good as well.
Also, while you can't save in SNES Doom, unfortunately, and yes this is a big problem -- seriously even a password system would have been really fantastic, this game is too long to have to play whole episodes in one sitting! -- they do do one really nice thing, which is that when you die you restart the level with exactly the weapons and ammo you entered it with. Some other versions which also don't have saving are not nearly as kind -- see the 3DO or 32X versions for example, both of which only "save" which levels you have reached and not any weapons, so when you die in a stage you always start with only the basic pistol at whichever level you start on. That's not fun. SNES Doom's solution is pretty good here. I have 3DO Doom, and that you have to go back to just the pistol every time you die is actually the biggest problem I have with that game, and it's why I stopped playing it. You can get used to the framerate, but not this... that is not how Doom was designed, the PC version has saving!
Obviously the game has plenty of other problems, such as that framerate, that enemies always face you, that the game feels like gameplay is slower than the PC version, that you can indeed get stuck on walls, and that five levels are missing from the PC game in this port (though it still has five levels more than the 32X version), but SNES Doom is a great game despite all that. I can understand why something framerate-focused like DF Retro would put it where it is in this list and the logic is reasonable, but SNES Doom is a lot of fun. I've finished the game on SNES and really liked it.
Well, the game was developed by Midway. Midway went under in about '09 and their remnants were bought up by Warner Bros. But Doom's rights would be with Bethesda now. So at minimum you'd need those companies to agree, and that's even assuming that some of the rights aren't lost somewhere else instead...
The really interesting thing about Doom 64 is how dramatically public opinion on the game changed over the years, though. I mean, when it released, Doom 64 was overlooked, considered a relic of a kind of FPS that was going out of favor by the time it released in 1997. There were also a lot of complaints for how dark the light levels are in the game (which is true, but intentional and works). But many years later, people looked at the game again and realized how great it was. It's a dramatic change from what people thought of the game when it released...
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Fantastic job john for this video and all the retro series.
Great video. Nice to see DOOM 64 getting a mention. It's a shame that we'll never see an official re-release of it, as I consider its selection of levels to be of much higher quality than that of DOOM and Ultimate DOOM. That's actually why I tend to prefer the level selection that Jaguar DOOM offered, as I really do think that DOOM's best moments are in its first and second episodes.
nextgeneration
Member
While not an official re-release, people who are able to and have access to be able to play Brutal Doom 64 need to play that if they were a fan of Doom 64. I was never a huge fan of Doom 64, but Brutal Doom 64 on pc - holy fucking crap. Just amazing.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
Has there been anyone out there who has attempted to do a new port of Doom to Saturn, see if we can get it running at the purported 60fps? I'm kinda sceptical such a thing a possible when factoring stuff like AI and collision detection.
OmegaDL50
Member
How does Doom 64 EX work in conjunction with Brutal Doom 64? Or are they two different things.
I like the fact that Doom 64 EX from what I'm reading is a faithful recreation of Doom 64 using the ROM from the N64 game converted into an actual WAD.
One thing I like about for the sake of preservation allows one to play this version of Doom if one does not have access to a N64. Although in matters of legality it would require one actually own a N64 cart of DOOM 64 and rip the rom themselves via Retrode.
A shame about the bit of licensing being caught up into the mix. If only iD by extension Bethesda could get usage from Warner Bros. and an official port. At least there is a means to play it on PC if via unorthodox methods.
RenegadeXV8
Banned
Yeah, Carmack single handedly destroyed the Saturn version with that decision.
Weirder still is the fact that he found the idea of warping textures abhorrent, but a borderline unplayable frame rate was fine.
psychotron
Member
Incredible. Watched it from start to finish this morning. Watching the ports get better and better actually psyched me up to play Doom again, lol. Great video, John!
Cow Mengde
Banned
He choose graphics over gameplay.
ok but... they didn't sell 630,000 on day one
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
... and it does not play very well with touch screen controls anyways :/.
I loved every second of this video and I've never played Doom. DF Retro is my favourite thing on YouTube
brain_stew
Member
32X Doom was my introduction and that console was bought because of the promised Doom port. I had no access to a PC anywhere at the time but that didn't stop the hype train for Doom. It's hard to put into terms but even without the internet everyone knew what Doom was and everyone wanted a copy.
It's a real shame we never got a console port with a 60fps option as the game feels great on a pad at that frame rate. Would have really liked to have seen how well that hardware accelerated Saturn version could have ran.
I remember the GBA port being a really big deal as well and put many hours into it and it's sequel.
It's a real shame we never got a console port with a 60fps option as the game feels great on a pad at that frame rate. Would have really liked to have seen how well that hardware accelerated Saturn version could have ran.
I remember the GBA port being a really big deal as well and put many hours into it and it's sequel.
shouamabane
Member
This is really great.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
Good video.
Next maybe the ti-83 version can be discussed
Next maybe the ti-83 version can be discussed
Unknown Soldier
Member
What's interesting is that if you actually follow the story of DOOM 2016, it's heavily implied that DOOM 2016 is a sequel to DOOM 64 because of this ending.
I have also posted that Quake port and remember it being quite good.
Very nicely done. I love DF retro. It's by far and away the most interesting and best content from DF IMO.
it is possible to show the CDs/Cart box arts, cases, manuals etc. if you have them. There were a few glimpse of them there but I'm curious at to them all. It would be interesting to see what each platform had at the time in an attempt to try and sell people who were looking at the shelves.
I gigged at the little bit of "sticky spit" on your lower lip at the start
it is possible to show the CDs/Cart box arts, cases, manuals etc. if you have them. There were a few glimpse of them there but I'm curious at to them all. It would be interesting to see what each platform had at the time in an attempt to try and sell people who were looking at the shelves.
I gigged at the little bit of "sticky spit" on your lower lip at the start
MassiveNights
Banned
Very cool video!
TheMagician
Member
I didn't really realise how good Doom 64 looked or was.
At the time of release, at least in Europe, Goldeneye was already released, so fighting 2D monster sprites felt old-hat compared to the polygonal real people of Rare's title.
I seem to recall the magazine scores were mostly around 7 or so, compared to the 9's and 10's of 007. Throw in an amazing multiplayer for Goldeneye and Doom 64 stood absolutely no chance over here.
Speaking of Doom 64 vs Goldeneye, I've just read this on the wiki entry. Think they might have misjudged...!
At the time of release, at least in Europe, Goldeneye was already released, so fighting 2D monster sprites felt old-hat compared to the polygonal real people of Rare's title.
I seem to recall the magazine scores were mostly around 7 or so, compared to the 9's and 10's of 007. Throw in an amazing multiplayer for Goldeneye and Doom 64 stood absolutely no chance over here.
Speaking of Doom 64 vs Goldeneye, I've just read this on the wiki entry. Think they might have misjudged...!
Indeed.
The statue of previous Doomguy is a direct reference to this fact.
Fucking cool video. I played Doom for the first time in 1996 (late, yeah) on PC (alongside with Heretic). Pentium machine, I think.
Many years later I tried the PS1 version and I was surprised, really cool indeed. Fast and colorful.
Also, the GBA port is very nice, all things considered.
KainXVIII
Member
Doom 2 was one of the first games that i played back in 1994 on my 486-DX2, good times 😀 Never played console versions though and there was no desire, thanks to DF video.
Replayed this series through Doom 3 BFG (also on PC), stupidly censored medpacks can be patched, fortunately. Also planning to play Final Doom with GZDoom source port, it will be great!
Replayed this series through Doom 3 BFG (also on PC), stupidly censored medpacks can be patched, fortunately. Also planning to play Final Doom with GZDoom source port, it will be great!
nextgeneration
Member
Yeah, Brutal Doom 64 is different from 64 EX, as it's like a souped up version of the N64 version, while 64 EX is a failthful recreation of the N64 version is my understanding. I could be wrong but that's my understanding, as I've never played 64 EX before. I guess this is the reason why I love Brutal Doom 64 so much because it's a much better version and the version I've always (in my eyes). It's essentially what Doom 64 should have been without the hardware limitations that the N64 imposed on the game itself. If you are a Doom fan, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend you play Brutal Doom 64. Doom (not to be confused with the Bethesda Doom, which I think sucks in comparison to the old Dooms) is one of my all time favorite games of all time. In fact, it's in my top 10 of best games of all time, and I would put Brutal Doom 64 side by side with both Doom 1 and Doom 2 as best games ever made in history.
ISee
Member
Good Video, but not showing of 1 minute of Brutal Doom as a honorable mention, just like N64 Doom is a miss.
Brutal Doom is Doom on steroids. It's insane and awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSzYliSASKc
Brutal Doom is Doom on steroids. It's insane and awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSzYliSASKc