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[Gavin Stevens]

Cost is important in consoles because this isn’t some super exclusive “look what I built on my own” pc.

This is something kids ask for Christmas. It’s something billy gets on his birthday. Or the grown man buys with his wage. It’s a common thing, like a mobile phone.

However that said, I saw an 8 year old sat in McDonald’s the other day with an iPad Pro, so I have no fucking clue what kids expect as gifts these days...

 

[Leonidas]

That was done purposeful. They don't want to share too much info because (1) they know their competitor is taking notes and (2) thy need to save tht for the info blowout.

Seems like they're putting their best foot forward announcing only SSD has higher bandwidth. PC won't be on PCI-e Gen 4 till a few months from now so they went ahead and said that they are faster(but that might not hold true by the time these things actually launch).

Just seems odd to me. In terms of specs we know nothing more than we did yesterday, other than a fast SSD. Wonder how long we'll have to wait for the full specs. Hopefully MS won't be as vague come E3.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Next gen already. Given last gen was drawn out soooooo long, this feels like it's coming super fast.

I'm ready.

 

[MightySquirrel]

I still strongly believe 5 year console circle would be best with a complete last gen comp. [all last gen games are fully supported inc dics versions] They start lagging behind so much after 3 years. If only current gen didnt have such a weak laptop cpu mid gen refresh would have made the waiting more bearable.

Next gen already. Given last gen was drawn out soooooo long, this feels like it's coming super fast.

I'm ready.

PS3 > 2006-2013 = PS4 > 2013-2020

 

[Fake]

Man... Why is taking so long? C'mon DF.

 

[DansDans]

So does no one else see the timing of this announcement to be suspicious?

A story about how Sony have now admitted they are censoring sexual content is games comes out and IMMEDIATELY this news about their new console specs comes out in the attempt to drown the noise

This is a very clear PR exercise campaign from Sony - they know exactly what they are doing.

Participate in the WSJ article about cracking down on censored content, find out the publishing date, and then force lead tech developer to provide specs of new console to another publication ON THE SAME DAY

Classic PR

 

[NickFire]

So does no one else see the timing of this announcement to be suspicious?

A story about how Sony have now admitted they are censoring sexual content is games comes out and IMMEDIATELY this news about their new console specs comes out in the attempt to drown the noise

This is a very clear PR exercise campaign from Sony - they know exactly what they are doing.

Participate in the WSJ article about cracking down on censored content, find out the publishing date, and then force lead tech developer to provide specs of new console to another publication ON THE SAME DAY

Classic PR

Maybe, but my money is on they wanted to get ahead of any possible next gen Xbox announcements.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Go back to the Microsoft threads dude lol 700 to 900 rightttttt

Gotta spread the FUD.

 

[Leonidas]

So does no one else see the timing of this announcement to be suspicious?

A story about how Sony have now admitted they are censoring sexual content is games comes out and IMMEDIATELY this news about their new console specs comes out in the attempt to drown the noise

This is a very clear PR exercise campaign from Sony - they know exactly what they are doing.

Participate in the WSJ article about cracking down on censored content, find out the publishing date, and then force lead tech developer to provide specs of new console to another publication ON THE SAME DAY

Classic PR

I agree but for a different reason.

The only thing Sony revealed as far as performance was that the SSD is higher bandwidth than current PC SSDs. That's a statement they probably can't make when the PS5 launches in 2020.

H1 2019 mainstream PC is on PCI-e Gen 3.
H2 2019 mainstream PC is PCI-e Gen 4(which I suspect is what PS5 uses).
H2 2020(when PS5 launches) mainstream PC could have PCI-e Gen 5.

 

[Shifty1897]

Sony does dumb stuff every now and then but no one at Sony is stupid enough to price a console above $499 anymore. Not after the PS3.

 

[Meh3D]

I was hoping for a video.

 

[zenspider]

Start saving 0.28ct per day until next year and you'll have the extra $100.

That's not a bad idea! Still, I gotta upgrade my set to 4K/HDR or I don't see the point.

 

[Pimpbaa]

"And that brings us on to the second demo, highlighting the vast increase to streaming performance. The speed at which the player can move through the city in Spider-Man is primarily defined by the PS4's storage limitations. Using the SSD, we're told that the player can move through New York with the speed of a jetfighter. "

And the increased streaming performance could be used for far more detailed and varied environments (in theory). I was saying this shit in a argument about ssd vs more ram in another thread and no one was backing me up. Anyway this is probably why the extra ram in the xb1x is hardly being used for better textures. Shitty 5400rpm hard drive and jaguar cores can't keep up.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

How can they call is specs analysis, there aren't even speculation about actual specs - it's just a list of hardware types (navi + zen2), a vague statement about support for ray tracing, and some claims about load times.

It't not as if they gave CPU/GPU frequencies, and the number of compute units in the GPU... or the RAM type(s)/quantity, plus all the details about any bespoke hardware it may have.

This is getting annoying, at least the last time around we pretty much knew a while before the reveals, with the help of some internal document/dev kit leaks, all we have now seems to be unreliable information.

 

[Beerman462]

They must be expecting a huge price drop in Solid State prices. Right now a 1TB SSD will set you back $100-$120 with $120 being higher performance they are hinting at in the article. A 1TB HDD is $40. There will be savings if the SSD is integrated, but then you lose the ability to upgrade your drive. Although I imagine an external drive for expansion would be the way to go anyway.

If this is factored into world streaming on third party games, you may see SSD requirements on PC games.

 

[sn0man]

They must be expecting a huge price drop in Solid State prices. Right now a 1TB SSD will set you back $100-$120 with $120 being higher performance they are hinting at in the article. A 1TB HDD is $40. There will be savings if the SSD is integrated, but then you lose the ability to upgrade your drive. Although I imagine an external drive for expansion would be the way to go anyway.

If this is factored into world streaming on third party games, you may see SSD requirements on PC games.

My guess based only on storage prices is that they have some sort of nvme or as others have theorized PCIe or optane storage that is a fairly small size for caching. Guessing 200GB or less and then a SATA drive for upgradeability and storage while maintaining a console price point.

Though I’m hopeful for some hologram-dream mystical storage thing their claims don’t make sense without some tiered storage of some sort.

 

[Beerman462]

My guess based only on storage prices is that they have some sort of nvme or as others have theorized PCIe or optane storage that is a fairly small size for caching. Guessing 200GB or less and then a SATA drive for upgradeability and storage while maintaining a console price point.

Though I’m hopeful for some hologram-dream mystical storage thing their claims don’t make sense without some tiered storage of some sort.

I assumed it would be an optane like solution as well, but the article is painting it as a 1TB SSD.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Oh..was expecting that but not this fast.

Kinda sad there isn't a video. But hey, they do think it could match PC in terms of power. Well, that would be neat.

I seriously doubt they give a shit about pc's when thinking about the console. And quite rightly so.

 

[sn0man]

I assumed it would be an optane like solution as well, but the article is painting it as a 1TB SSD.

Odd though as (without looking) I thought they said it was faster than existing PC stuff. It’s quite odd. It’ll be super interesting to see what they launch. Hopefully PS4 games all load like that.

 

[AnotherOne]

So are those specs equivalent of PC GPU and CPU or is it a water down version just based on ryzen and navi? I'm asking because aren't GPU prices like 600$ and somehow you get all this perfomance for such a low price.

 

[womfalcs3]

pretty sure sony will ask $700 to $900 for this.
ray tracing only works on RTX as we all know,
and 8k cant even work on RTX2080ti ($1300)
so it has to even be better, Pushing gaming as we know it.

The console is at least a year away. That $1,300 is now.

 

[Leonidas]

So are those specs equivalent of PC GPU and CPU or is it a water down version just based on ryzen and navi?price.

Watered down(lower clocked) Ryzen and Navi. But we don't now the clocks of those desktop parts or the new consoles yet.

I'm asking because aren't GPU prices like 600$ and somehow you get all this perfomance for such a low price.

Navi is said to be pretty cheap. Only like 2-5 months to find out.

The cards that are PS5 equivalent are not $600.

In 2020 that level of performance will be even cheaper.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Out of all products in the world, some reason video game consoles are the only thing that has this "maximum $400" stigma. And if possible, more like $300.

For everything else, people are willing to pay more due to product improvements or inflation, but consoles have this mental barrier that has a Psionic Resistance Rating of 100.

Yep, it sounds aw3some but ultimately if it comes out at $500 or more it will tank.

 

[Lokimaru]

Seeing as how Windows mixed reality came along an did PSVR better then they could my faith in Sony has been dropping more and more every year. Hell they even have a Home-like space built in.

 

[Rayderism]

With as big as games are bound to get (100+GB), buying more storage (because let's face it, 1 or 2TB just isn't going to be enough) for the PS5 is going to be expensive, and I mean like NASTY expensive, because a standard mechanical HDD ain't gonna cut it. And watch them make drive upgrades proprietary, like it was with the Vita memory cards. I just looked up prices for 8TB SSD's.......$400+. Yikes!

 

[grfunkulus]

Watered down(lower clocked) Ryzen and Navi. But we don't now the clocks of those desktop parts or the new consoles yet.



Navi is said to be pretty cheap. Only like 2-5 months to find out.

The cards that are the PS5 equivalent are not $600.

In 2020 that level of performance will be even cheaper.

Wishful thinking. Graphics card prices have not dropped, hardly at all in two years and don't show much signs of accelerating. The cheapest the 1080ti was before the mining craze was June 2017

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They were firesaled on their way out earlier this winter as RTX was just starting to hit its stridea and mining had died. Used ones went as low as $500ish but new was hard/impossible to find and still wouldn't have been much lower than $650. 2080 is only 5% better and still costs $650 minimum on short-lived sales, 6 months after launch.

If PS5 launch is 2 years away, and manufacturing must begin at least several months before with final specs finalized some time before that, you really think we're somehow going to get the rumored 12 TF performance in an, at most, $500 box? 1080ti isn't even 12 TF. It's a pipe dream. Navi isnt going to magically make that happen. High end pc gaming is such a small segment of the market (gtx 1060 only recently overtaking 970 as most used graphics card) that prices aren't going to budge much. If you want even a 10TF gpu to come down to being within reason to put in a $500 box where Sony isn't losing tons of money, console sales are going to have to be primary driver. They're going to have sell a lot of ps5s, at a loss, for a not insignificant amount of time to make this dream a reality. Otherwise, the pure graphical horsepower of next-gen is going to be a disappointment to graphics snobs, plain and simple.

 

[Leonidas]

Wishful thinking. The cheapest the 1080ti was before the mining craze was June 2017

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They were firesaled on their way out earlier this winter as RTX was just starting to hit its stridea and mining had died. Used ones went as low as $500ish but new was hard/impossible to find and still wouldn't have been much lower than $650. 2080 is only 5% better and still costs $650 minimum on short-lived sales, 6 months after launch.

If PS5 launch is 2 years away, and manufacturing must begin at least several months before with final specs finalized some time before that, you really think we're somehow going to get the rumored 12 TF performance in an, at most, $500 box? 1080ti isn't even 12 TF. It's a pipe dream. Navi isnt going to magically make that happen.

Seems you've misread my post...

 

[CuNi]

I can't see this happening for 549$ or less. Still sceptical about the size of that SSD but glad that they pulled that off if true.

 

[Outrunner]

I'll gladly pay up to 550 dollars for this. I just don't think it will be able to do everything they are saying it will, Sony is known for inflating the capacity of their consoles. Either way, I'm not really interested in better graphics, I'm more interested in better framerates and lower load times.

 

[Boss Mog]

Out of all products in the world, some reason video game consoles are the only thing that has this "maximum $400" stigma. And if possible, more like $300.

For everything else, people are willing to pay more due to product improvements or inflation, but consoles have this mental barrier that has a Psionic Resistance Rating of 100.

Exactly, people have no problem lining up to spend $1,000 on a phone every year that's barely better than the one from last year.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Wishful thinking. Graphics card prices have not dropped, hardly at all in two years and don't show much signs of accelerating. The cheapest the 1080ti was before the mining craze was June 2017

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They were firesaled on their way out earlier this winter as RTX was just starting to hit its stridea and mining had died. Used ones went as low as $500ish but new was hard/impossible to find and still wouldn't have been much lower than $650. 2080 is only 5% better and still costs $650 minimum on short-lived sales, 6 months after launch.

If PS5 launch is 2 years away, and manufacturing must begin at least several months before with final specs finalized some time before that, you really think we're somehow going to get the rumored 12 TF performance in an, at most, $500 box? 1080ti isn't even 12 TF. It's a pipe dream. Navi isnt going to magically make that happen. High end pc gaming is such a small segment of the market (gtx 1060 only recently overtaking 970 as most used graphics card) that prices aren't going to budge much. If you want even a 10TF gpu to come down to being within reason to put in a $500 box where Sony isn't losing tons of money, console sales are going to have to be primary driver. They're going to have sell a lot of ps5s, at a loss, for a not insignificant amount of time to make this dream a reality. Otherwise, the pure graphical horsepower of next-gen is going to be a disappointment to graphics snobs, plain and simple.

Please learn about GPUs. First, there is a difference between AMD TFLOPs and Nvidia TFLOPs.

Secondly, small Navi launching this year is a new arch on 7nm, offering performance around a GTX 1080 for $250 or so. What's inside the PS5 is probably that heavily customised for more performance, easily 1080 Ti levels I would guess.

 

[Bl@de]

pretty sure sony will ask $700 to $900 for this.
ray tracing only works on RTX as we all know,
and 8k cant even work on RTX2080ti ($1300)
so it has to even be better, Pushing gaming as we know it.

 

[Bryank75]

Seeing as how Windows mixed reality came along an did PSVR better then they could my faith in Sony has been dropping more and more every year. Hell they even have a Home-like space built in.

Windows Mixed Reality?

Yes, I have GREAT faith in that....

https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft/microsoft-windows-mixed-reality-commission-affiliate-cut

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

pretty sure sony will ask $700 to $900 for this.
ray tracing only works on RTX as we all know,
and 8k cant even work on RTX2080ti ($1300)
so it has to even be better, Pushing gaming as we know it.

No you're right, I'm thinking $900 for the base PS5 model then there will be a premium model for $1200-1500 that will make the RTX 2080 Ti look like a Mark Cerny bad dream.

Given how Nvidia has got us used to $1000 prices for mid-range cards, these prices might be welcomed by gamers the world over, as welcome as when you find a small turd floating at the bottom of your coffee.

 

[ZywyPL]

Technically, Sony and MS can afford to sell the consoles with a loss more than ever, the very first year of PS+/XBL will easily cover it. That being said, I expect the console to cost 499$ at worst, the PS3 and X1X clearly showed where lies the upper limit for the average Joe.

 

[Bryank75]

Found this funny.

 

[Foxbat]

No you're right, I'm thinking $900 for the base PS5 model then there will be a premium model for $1200-1500 that will make the RTX 2080 Ti look like a Mark Cerny bad dream.

Given how Nvidia has got us used to $1000 prices for mid-range cards, these prices might be welcomed by gamers the world over, as welcome as when you find a small turd floating at the bottom of your coffee.

Wrong!!

If the turd is floating, it's at the top of your coffee, and only at the bottom if it's a sinker.

 

[Foxbat]

Found this funny.

I'm sure you did. Enjoy your ride on the hype train for the next month or so. Lol

 

[Foxbat]

The specs are fantastic. If they can make the controller battery last a lot longer I’m in.

What specs?

 

[Tehvenom]

Sony does dumb stuff every now and then but no one at Sony is stupid enough to price a console above $499 anymore. Not after the PS3.

I dont know but a higher price console seems like it's coming but we could witness also tier types of PS5 version. Start saving now lol

 

[Torrent of Pork]

No you're right, I'm thinking $900 for the base PS5 model then there will be a premium model for $1200-1500 that will make the RTX 2080 Ti look like a Mark Cerny bad dream.

Given how Nvidia has got us used to $1000 prices for mid-range cards, these prices might be welcomed by gamers the world over, as welcome as when you find a small turd floating at the bottom of your coffee.

Not to be pedantic, but the turd wouldn't be floating if it was at the bottom of the coffee.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Exactly, people have no problem lining up to spend $1,000 on a phone every year that's barely better than the one from last year.

The social aspect of phones is completely different than that of consoles. A phone is considered an extension of one's lifestyle, something that keeps you in touch with family and friends and can perform a myriad of other functions. A console is still widely regarded (perhaps rightly so) as a Nerd Box. In other words, it's not that the money isn't there, it's that buyers don't feel the cost is justified for an expensive toy. For what it's worth, Apple appears to have hit the ceiling too, the iPhone has been eating shit since they started charging the cost of a MacBook for one. It's all economics; supply vs demand. Price goes up and demand drops.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I dont know but a higher price console seems like it's coming but we could witness also tier types of PS5 version. Start saving now lol

If Sony repeats the same mistake they and Microsoft have made regarding pricing, then they deserve to lose. $500 consoles will not succeed.

 

[Airbus Jr]

If Sony repeats the same mistake they and Microsoft have made regarding pricing, then they deserve to lose. $500 consoles will not succeed.

You seems to have some kind of raging boner over these $400 console

PS5 at $500 will be doing just fine relax were not that broke

If you want the current Navi AMD its imposible with $400 unless youre happy with an underpowered Vega

 

[Tehvenom]

If Sony repeats the same mistake they and Microsoft have made regarding pricing, then they deserve to lose. $500 consoles will not succeed.

Without a doubt you're on the money and hope they learned this practice from the ps3 transitioning to the ps4 era. Theres always room to play with the idea of tier pricing as it is common nowadays.

 

[HeresJohnny]

You seems to have some kind of raging boner over these $400 console

PS5 at $500 will be doing just fine relax were not that broke

If you want the current Navi AMD its imposible with $400 unless youre happy with an underpowered Vega

You have the money. I have the money. most people have the money. However most people won’t spend $500 on a toy, and it’s those people Sony needs to get to buy if they want to repeat the PS4’s success. Guys like you and I are baked into the numbers; hey know we’ll buy in. Console generations are won and lost by the middle buyer, the buyer who doesn’t NEED a new console but would like to have one. Those people don’t spend $500 or more on nerd boxes dude.

You seem like an okay dude, but you’re ignorant of history here. Name one time a $500 machine has gone on to become the market leader. I’ll save you the time, if you like: the answer is never. Let’s hope there are fewer guys like you in Sony’s boardrooms than sensible people who know the market.

 

[Airbus Jr]

You have the money. I have the money. most people have the money. However most people won’t spend $500 on a toy, and it’s those people Sony needs to get to buy if they want to repeat the PS4’s success.

You seem like an okay dude, but you’re ignorant of history here. Name one time a $500 machine has gone on to become the market leader. I’ll save you the time, if you like. Let’s hope there are fewer guys like you in Sony’s boardrooms than sensible people who know the market.

Says who?

You seems to be very fixated on PS4 $400 success that you already ruled out any other posibilites and different posible outcome

 

[TLZ]

raging boner

I don't know why I'm laughing hard at this

 

[Bryank75]

You have the money. I have the money. most people have the money. However most people won’t spend $500 on a toy, and it’s those people Sony needs to get to buy if they want to repeat the PS4’s success. Guys like you and I are baked into the numbers; hey know we’ll buy in. Console generations are won and lost by the middle buyer, the buyer who doesn’t NEED a new console but would like to have one. Those people don’t spend $500 or more on nerd boxes dude.

You seem like an okay dude, but you’re ignorant of history here. Name one time a $500 machine has gone on to become the market leader. I’ll save you the time, if you like: the answer is never. Let’s hope there are fewer guys like you in Sony’s boardrooms than sensible people who know the market.

Can work for the early adopter phase, then has to reduce...

 

[ethomaz]

Please learn about GPUs. First, there is a difference between AMD TFLOPs and Nvidia TFLOPs.

Secondly, small Navi launching this year is a new arch on 7nm, offering performance around a GTX 1080 for $250 or so. What's inside the PS5 is probably that heavily customised for more performance, easily 1080 Ti levels I would guess.

Just to add a bit more.

It is not that there is difference between AMD TFLOPS and nVidia TFLOPS... they are the same... it is a metric used measure how many floating point operations per second a chip can execute.

The difference is how efficient the architecture is to use these FLOPS.

nVidia architecture is more efficient than actual GCN from AMD... so while nVidia cards can reach around 90% of use FLOPS AMD GCN can reach 70-80% in best cases and that shows a disparity in performance with comparing cards with same amount of FLOPS.

In a ideal scenario a 10TFLOPS nVidia and AMD card should perform the same but in reality the nVidia cards can better use these 10TFLOPS while the old and way dated GCN is inefficient in the use of these same 10TFLOPS... there are a series of reasons to that like the limitation of GCN arch in the numbe of units per CU... so you are fixed to pre-determined number of SPs, ROPs, TMUs, etc that are not the most efficient way to most tasks.

nVidia choice to use less units with more clock seems to work better for games while the way GCN is today works better for compute tasks I guess but not for games.

AMD needs a big overhaul of GCN arch to be break these limitations and be competitive again... maybe something like what they did with Zen in CPU market.