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DirectX 12 is on the way

2San

Member
Why didn't you download Skype for desktop? The app equivalent of any program sucks but you are not forced to use it.
It was my friends laptop, so I couldn't put a lot of time in it. I didn't know you could download Skype for desktop. I think that's exactly the problem with Windows 8 you can make it like windows 7 after going through the hassle of figuring it out and downloading some custom shells. At that point I'd rather just use Windows 7.
 

ayob

Member
i still use windows vista people lol. i hope windows 9 is good so i can finally upgrade. im excited for dx12
 
What?

Install Classic Shell and all troubles are gone been using it since the release of Windows 8 64 bit and well i am not going back to 7 that's for sure. 8 is way way faster on a ssd and more stable. I am 100% on my desktop every day i have never touched the startscreen since release.

Where can I find this thing

I like Windows 8 for its performance boosts but I can't stand Metro and every single time I've ever used a program that defaults to a Metro app I've pledge to never ever support it with my time and money again. I really detest its design and its propensity to throw you out of desktop just when you're trying to do something fucking productive, I detest it that much. (but for real no I don't boycott Metro programs but pulling up a browser or program at work, at a friend's computer, wherever and being put into Metro mode just immediately puts me off to whatever the fuck it is)

Also I really don't like Metro's spotty search system? but i've gotten over that and have learned what works and what doesn't

One time I opened the Windows 8 version of calculator, and it blew up to fullscreen, with no option to make it a window like a any sane user would. I sat there, at the terminal, staring at that app for 10 minutes trying to make sense of it. Why is this calculator spread across a 21-inch monitor? My mind tore itself in two.

BECAUSE TABLETS BRO

it's called 'usability', it only makes perfect sense that something that has taken up less than a quarter of any monitor's viewing space for over a decade should encapsulate your entire desktop monitor. Or else how will you even see all those numbers

I don't understand why Metro isn't something you can toggle
 

Shosai

Banned
One time I opened the Windows 8 version of calculator, and it blew up to fullscreen, with no option to make it a window like a any sane user would. I sat there, at the terminal, staring at that app for 10 minutes trying to make sense of it. Why is this calculator spread across a 21-inch monitor? My mind tore itself in two.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
It was my friends laptop, so I couldn't put a lot of time in it. I didn't know you could download Skype for desktop. I think that's exactly the problem with Windows 8 you can make it like windows 7 after going through the hassle of figuring it out and downloading some custom shells. At that point I'd rather just use Windows 7.

Erm, you can literally just download Skype off the website in exactly the same way you could with Windows 7 and install it exactly as normal. The process is absolutely no different at all from Windows 7.
 
One time I opened the Windows 8 version of calculator, and it blew up to fullscreen, with no option to make it a window like a any sane user would. I sat there, at the terminal, staring at that app for 10 minutes trying to make sense of it. My mind tore itself in two. Why is this calculator spread across a 21-inch monitor?

Because you used the metro app. The desktop app is the same old one.
 

2San

Member
Erm, you can literally just download Skype off the website in exactly the same way you could with Windows 7 and install it exactly as normal. The process is absolutely no different at all from Windows 7.
Yes, but I was talking in general. All this work to make it work like Windows 7. For casual users it's confusing as hell. It even confused me as is apparent from this thread.
 

Shosai

Banned
Because you used the metro app. The desktop app is the same old one.

Which raises a second question without answering the first. Why are there two versions of the same program pre-installed? And why are the metro apps fullscreen only? It's a design error which Microsoft will be correcting in the next Win8 interface update.

Because it had apparently took them a year to realize that people expect Windows programs to use....windows.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Well AMD, i think you were wrong

AMD wanted something like this to happen. MS would never create something like this if they did not feel pressured. Developers begged them to do something for years, and they did almost nothing.

Just as a reminder, DX11 appeared in late 2009. 4.5 FUCKING YEARS ago.

And mantle was ~2 year project. DX12 will not come anytime soon. It's a year away at least.
 

keuja

Member
I have a hybrid tablet/laptop with windows 8.1. It's great. You get the full windows advantages and usability of the touch interface.
For non touch screen devices, I can understand the frustration though.
 

Phamit

Member
Which raises a second question without answering the first. Why are there two versions of the same program pre-installed? And why are the metro apps fullscreen only? It's a design error which Microsoft will be correcting in the next Win8 interface update.

Because it had apparently took them a year to realize that people expect Windows programs to use....windows.

you dont have to use it fullscreen, you can snap it next to the desktop or other apps if you want
 
Vista was decent enough after some updates afaik.

It was still incredibly slow and heavy feeling compared to 7. Plus the 7 Task bar is the other real differentiator besides speed for why 7 is better than Vista.

Regarding all those "Better not be Windows 8+ exclusive" people:
Two year or faster release cycles, guys. Get used to it. Windows 7 isn't another XP, and it's against all of our interests in Microsoft letting it become one.
 

Demigod Mac

Member
AMD wanted something like this to happen. MS would never create something like this if they did not feel pressured. Developers begged them to do something for years, and they did almost nothing.

Just as a reminder, DX11 appeared in late 2009. 4.5 FUCKING YEARS ago.

And mantle was ~2 year project. DX12 will not come anytime soon. It's a year away at least.

Pretty much this. Microsoft tends to stagnate if not challenged in a market they dominate. Khronos has been working diligently on expanding OpenGL past DX11 and AMD's Mantle has turned up the heat.

For a parallel history, see: Internet Explorer 6. Five year gap between IE6 and IE7 when MS was virtually unchallenged in the browser market.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Windows 9 will be Windows 8.2 (april 2014) with really one key difference, ability to run metro apps in actual windows, other than that I don't see it being a radical difference that people are hoping for, Windows is on a yearly schedule now. Windows 9 has not even begun development yet. They are just rebranding 8.3 to 9 to get people to look at the OS again.
 

Shosai

Banned
you dont have to use it fullscreen, you can snap it next to the desktop or other apps if you want

Just like I can in Windows 7, great.

Minus the actual "windows" feature, the ability to shrink it down to a size of my choosing and dragging it to any unoccupied plot of screen real estate. Please understand, I work as a coder and have at least a half a dozen programs open at any given time, all having to share screen space.
 

nikos

Member
Yes, but I was talking in general. All this work to make it work like Windows 7. For casual users it's confusing as hell. It even confused me as is apparent from this thread.

There is no work. If your PC boots into metro, you click the "Desktop" icon and never have to see metro until the next time you boot it.
 
Speed, Boot time, game performance, System tools

Not on my PC. The only thing it adds is the metro layout.

I only upgrade windows if it improves on performance without horrible trade off's like a scrambled OS for the sake of being different.

Or when i need it in order to put my new hardware to full use. But dx11 is still the norm in PC land and console land now, which makes windows 8 a useless OS to have in my opinion, as it adds nothing towards the mix on this department in comparison towards windows 7.

Unless windows 9 adds something drastically visually through dx12 like dx11 did in comparison towards dx9 i will upgrade. But even then, SP1 and second generation dx12 video cards will have to be released. As most of the time the OS and Cards are garbage in it's first revision.

If it adds nothing, windows 9 have to improve my performance in comparison towards windows 7 and not mess around with interfaces. Or i will be happily ignoring entire windows 9 and wait on what windows 10 will bring me.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
There is no work. If your PC boots into metro, you click the "Desktop" icon and never have to see metro until the next time you boot it.
There is a option to boot to desktop in 8.1.

f7DRgWf.png
 

Sub Zero

his body's cold as ice, but he's got a heart of gold
I can wait a couple of years for Windows 9 to come out. Not gonna switch to Windows 8 for any reason
 

2San

Member
There is no work. If your PC boots into metro, you click the "Desktop" icon and never have to see metro until the next time you boot it.
Sure you do, if you need change settings and if you are looking for a program for example. I don't even really have problem with Metro conceptually, I just find the whole notion of apps on a desktop odd and unintuitive. The same can be said for options being in the control panels and in the settings menu that is accessed with the charm bar. It's 2 OSes in one and it makes no sense for a desktop.
'
Okay, so pardon my ignorance, because I don't know shit about this, but does this affect console gaming at all?
Nope not at all.
 

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
Sure you do, if you need change settings and if you are looking for a program for example. I don't even really have problem with Metro conceptually, I just find the whole notion of apps on a desktop odd and unintuitive. The same can be said for options being in the control panels and in the settings menu that is accessed with the charm bar. It's 2 OSes in one and it makes no sense for a desktop.
'
Nope not at all.

God damn it, and here I thought it would make games run and look better on consoles. The life of a console gamer who is both too lazy and cheap to get a PC. Ah fuck it.
 

Anustart

Member
I love Vista and Win 8. I ain't even scared. Why ya'll hatin?

On 8.1 currently and really enjoying, and to be honest I jumped to Vista well after the kinks were ironed out.
 

2San

Member
God damn it, and here I thought it would make games run and look better on consoles. The life of a console gamer who is both too lazy and cheap to get a PC. Ah fuck it.
Actually part of the strength of consoles is that they don't have bother with Direct X, since they can just code to the metal. The consoles do have their own custom API. Direct X and Open GL exist so games can be played on a wide range of machines afaik.
 

big_z

Member
Xbox One uses DirectX too, correct? Already obsolete?

Depends how forward thinking they were. You would think they put some dx12 hooks in there to plan ahead like they did with the 360 but its impossible to say.

I'm sure misterxmedia is typing a stereo dx12 dgpu driver that unlocks 16 gigachips of esram right about now.
 

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
Actually part of the strength of consoles is that they don't have bother with Direct X, since they can just code to the metal. Direct X and Open GL exist so games can be played on a wide range of machines afaik.

And I am proved even dumber! lol Good to know, thanks!
 

nded

Member
People don't want to pay $200 for a slightly faster OS that you can use "just like Windows 7" if you put in the effort and ignore some bullshit tablet interface every time you boot your computer. DX12 won't save Win8, but it might drum up interest for Windows 9 if they don't screw it up.

I honestly don't understand all the Windows 8 hate.

For most people it seems to be absolute indifference.
 

jelly

Member
Xbox One APIs are probably what DirectX 12 will actually be similar to such as low level access but available on a wide range of hardware.

Xbox One placebo dream.
 

Mindlog

Member
It seems like an impediment at Microsoft has been recently lifted and smarter voices are now being heard again.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
I honestly don't understand all the Windows 8 hate.

It isn't Windows 8 hate it is Metro hate. People can't differentiate between the OS and the default GUI. I fiddled around with Metro the first day, then switched to the desktop and setup everything there. Now it just feels like a faster version of Windows 7 and who doesn't want that?
 

watership

Member
Saving 5 seconds a day probably isn't that big of a deal to most people.

It's not just about boot times. OS stability, drivers, ssd support, multi monitor support, touch support, overall OS speed. The interface is very polarizing, yes, but in every measurable way, it's a more stable, faster OS. It even runs better on slower hardware than win7.
 

kmg90

Member
The windows 8 boot times are not faster than Windows 7...

All Microsoft did was diguse the default shutdown behavior to that of hibernating (with a hint of logging out) that's it....

Turn off hybrid shutdown or run from admin cmd

Code:
shutdown /s /t 0

See how fast windows 8 takes to load up properly...



They don't even try to hide the fact that they are hibernating the system with the connection uptimes not being reset upon "shutting down"


TL;DR Windows 8 start up times = Windows 7 hibenation resume time.....
 
I have Windows 8.1 and I would agree with the sentiment that Microsoft should have DX12 for Windows 7 in addition to its latest one. Windows 8's desktop improvements are marginal at best, boot time improvements are debatable (same for me and my SSDs) and the start screen is a downgrade, no matter how you slice. 8.1 works well enough, but I'd probably jump back to 7 if I had the capability to.

And no, you don't need to post screenshots of start menu worst-case scenarios, because that's entirely unrealistic.
 
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