leatherhat
Member
Don't forget trying to have a final spirit bomb duel with Kid Buu instead of teleporting Gohan and Gotenks to the Kaoishin planet and having them kill him (it?).
Don't forget trying to have a final spirit bomb duel with Kid Buu instead of teleporting Gohan and Gotenks to the Kaoishin planet and having them kill him (it?).
Don't forget trying to have a final spirit bomb duel with Kid Buu instead of teleporting Gohan and Gotenks to the Kaoishin planet and having them kill him (it?).
I've been watching more of the Buu saga for the first time. When I was younger I only got to see an episode here or there so some parts are familiar while the vast majority is new to me. Enjoying it so far. Feels sort of nostalgic in a way.
Satan is the undisputed hero of the Buu arc, that's probably one of the main reasons I like it.
When did Goku impregnate Chichi with Goten anyway? During those few days he was chilling with Gohan while in SS?
And Buu not using instant transmission when he saw he was losing / before when he tried to interrupt Goku. Or hell just to dodge it.
-snip
It's the equivalent of the anime's "Zamasu Essence" spreading through the universe. They both aren't justified except by the fact that "a half immortal body does weird stuff". I don't see why the manga should get any more flak for this.
As for Zamasu Essence, it works in the sense that only Merged Zamasu' body would be half-immortal, not his spirit. Him rewriting the laws of the universe is farfetched, but the explanation is pure word salad that I am sure Toyo made up one weekend.
So I'm about halfway through the Black arc.
Decided to start watching since I love Z so much.
Couple things, maybe spoilers.
1. When did Black and Goku switch bodies? Wasn't that Future Trunks timeline? and didn't Goku die from a heart attack in that era? Huh?
2. I can't believe what a puss Gohan is. Jesus. From one of my favourite characters (cell Gohan) to whatever the fuck this thing is.
3. Is it just me, or has this show gotten a lot more "kid friendly"? I don't think I've seen any blood, and any kills come from off screen.
4. Why is Goku such a goof ball now? Like, he was sort of a goof before, but this is extreme now. It's like every frame on screen, he is doing something stupid, or saying something stupid, or generally acting like an idiot.
Anyways, Super seems ok so far. Nothing mind blowing, but a FAR cry from Z, thats for damn sure. Will continue it. Just wish they'd move from the family channel.
So I'm about halfway through the Black arc.
Decided to start watching since I love Z so much.
Couple things, maybe spoilers.
1. When did Black and Goku switch bodies? Wasn't that Future Trunks timeline? and didn't Goku die from a heart attack in that era? Huh?
2. I can't believe what a puss Gohan is. Jesus. From one of my favourite characters (cell Gohan) to whatever the fuck this thing is.
3. Is it just me, or has this show gotten a lot more "kid friendly"? I don't think I've seen any blood, and any kills come from off screen.
4. Why is Goku such a goof ball now? Like, he was sort of a goof before, but this is extreme now. It's like every frame on screen, he is doing something stupid, or saying something stupid, or generally acting like an idiot.
Anyways, Super seems ok so far. Nothing mind blowing, but a FAR cry from Z, thats for damn sure. Will continue it. Just wish they'd move from the family channel.
So I'm about halfway through the Black arc.
Decided to start watching since I love Z so much.
Couple things, maybe spoilers.
1. When did Black and Goku switch bodies? Wasn't that Future Trunks timeline? and didn't Goku die from a heart attack in that era? Huh?
2. I can't believe what a puss Gohan is. Jesus. From one of my favourite characters (cell Gohan) to whatever the fuck this thing is.
3. Is it just me, or has this show gotten a lot more "kid friendly"? I don't think I've seen any blood, and any kills come from off screen.
4. Why is Goku such a goof ball now? Like, he was sort of a goof before, but this is extreme now. It's like every frame on screen, he is doing something stupid, or saying something stupid, or generally acting like an idiot.
Anyways, Super seems ok so far. Nothing mind blowing, but a FAR cry from Z, thats for damn sure. Will continue it. Just wish they'd move from the family channel.
And my point is that in the Cell Saga not only were the main characters dumb, so were the secondary characters and the villain with Vegeta being the main culprit since he was never really punished for his actions outside of a bruised ego.
18 being dumb is just inexcusable
and Trunks' daddy issues is why I didn't like the character after that point.
Rewatching Buu saga as an adult made me really appreciate it. Easily my favorite iteration of Goku.
Also Vegeta killing himself will forever give me the feels.
ALSO, Mr Satan is just so easily lovable by the end of the arc. He is easily the bravest out of anyone in the show, plus Buu wouldn't have been defeated without him.
> Toriyama
> story drafts
lmao
this is like a perfect summary of how the US marketed DB lolWho else remembers this edge lord opening?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuFd5a_XLhc
Anyone else wish we could get a rough draft of the android saga pre changes? Hope its the very next extended universe thing after the Yamcha manga.
Both the version with Gero as main baddy, and 17 and 18 as main baddy. I bet Cell games was holdover from one of them. Seems way more 17s speed than Cells.
Cell games and 16 being a copy of Gero's son are the 2 things that make me think there weresome things prepared in advance (for once?) that never went through
Either way, its nice to dream, lol.
Anyone else wish we could get a rough draft of the android saga pre changes? Hope its the very next extended universe thing after the Yamcha manga.
Both the version with Gero as main baddy, and 17 and 18 as main baddy. I bet Cell games was holdover from one of them. Seems way more 17s speed than Cells.
Looks like one of those silly AMVs from back in the day.Who else remembers this edge lord opening?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuFd5a_XLhc
Why do you think it was so easy for Goten to go SSJ?When did Goku impregnate Chichi with Goten anyway? During those few days he was chilling with Gohan while in SS?
Woah Vegeta died, what a sick punishment, I'm sure those 4 hours in hell must have been tough dude. When you put things back into context, and realize Vegeta died and came back within the same day, it completely cheapens his death.
To him, his ego being bruised is all that matters. Hell that's all he cared about even in the Buu saga, he wasn't mad he died he was mad about SSJ3.
Plus his foolish actions caused his son to die and that caused him a lot of pain.
As for secondary characters being dumb in the Cell saga over the Buu saga, well that's a funny point because they do fucking nothing in the Buu saga with the exception of Satan (but he also was there in the Cell saga and served mostly the same role = gag character leading to the main hero succeeding).
I'm still waiting for you to explain that.
Whatever.
The Cell games was likely Toriyama(or maybe his editor) thinking "Hey, I have this villain that embodies everything the heroes have had to deal with up until this point, why don't I make a tournament again as well since those played a big role before".
It's a fun little callback and like everything in the Cell saga, it worked out surprisingly well despite Toriyama making it up as he went along.
well at least Goku being taken down by the heart sickness would stay, given it was foreshadowed super early
maybe 19 and 20 they would have given the gang more trouble via their absorption abilities
16 was only recently revealed to be a copy of Gero's son
I doubt it was planned back then at all
it is possible the Cell games were planned for the android trio; after all a tournament doesn't make much sense for one opponent, but by the point the cell games start, everyone except Gohan and Goku had had their opportunity to shine. so if you take out Cell from the equation, a bunch of the fights where Vegeta, Trunks, Krillin and Tenshinhan participate are out too, so they going into a tournament could give them a little chance to shine
on the other hand, I don't see the androids much interested in a tournament. 18 will go onto the tenkaichi for money, but in the android saga she would just steal whatever she wanted,
The latter he does it all the time, Lunch, Tien, 17, Buu, Tao and Mr Satan etcWell whats more believable, a plot point that was made then, and never revealed because the story changed. Or that Toriyama is still thinking up new stuff for an old forgotten character like 16?
Well whats more believable, a plot point that was made then, and never revealed because the story changed. Or that Toriyama is still thinking up new stuff for an old forgotten character like 16?
It helps that he incorporated everything he had been hinting at with Gohan at the time. As a result it felt like a culmination of literally everything that had come before. It really felt like a generational hand-off, shame it didn't stick though.
Thats the thing, Tourney felt so out of character for Cell, whom expressed no interest in anything outside his mission before then. They explained it away as his saiyan cells effecting his thinking, but thats kind of a reach.
One of my favorite moments after a recent retread with the Buu arc is that moment where Mr. Satan befriended Buu and they saved Bee the dog together from hunger and being injured and everything. Piccolo is just watching from above in the palace basically thinking 'this fucking joke of a guy just saved planet Earth'. Then it all gets ruined by a bunch of jerks who decide to shoot the dog and Mr Satan soon after. The look on Buu's face when that happened was like whoa. One of the more powerful, emotional scenes from that arc.
The latter he does it all the time, Lunch, Tien, 17, Buu, Tao and Mr Satan etc
Why do you think it was so easy for Goten to go SSJ?
He added all that stuff the series wasn't continuing though. He just randomly comes out with stuff sometimes like mr Satans encounter with Tao or Lunch living with TienYeah I know he adds stuff to existing characters. Kinda hard to have a story continue if you don't do that lol.
When does he randomly add back story to dead one off characters?
Yeah I know he adds stuff to existing characters. Kinda hard to have a story continue if you don't do that lol.
When does he randomly add back story to dead one off characters?
I assume he makes up stuff on the spot whenever a reporter asks about some obscure detail or whenever they are compiling those books with extra details for the series
he is known for not caring about how he is gonna get the characters out of a jam the following week while doing the manga, and that's for stuff that actually ended up being on the manga. stuff that didn't get to the manga? prolly completely forgotten, just like he forgot Launch
it's possible there was a backstory planned for android 16, but whether it was being modelled after Dr Gero's dead son is an open question. he would have come up with something else if Cell had not taken over the saga
imagine how the android saga works without Cell. 17 and 18 immediately kill Dr Gero and wake up 16. what's the point of 16 being a copy of Dr Gero's son? there was no way of it coming up as a dramatic plot point later
edit: checking, 17 kills Gero and wakes up 16 in the same chapter, 350. it's always possible that Gero would be brought back by some bullshit, but it is not hinted in the following chapters. Gero only warns them that 16 is unstable or something and then is killed
the first hint of Cell plays out in 357 (when Trunks destroyed time machine is reported) so that's more than a month between the younger androids taking over the plot and Cell taking over the plot, enough for the editor to go in and say "the android kids are no good. make another monster" but we receive no update on 16's having any personality, backstory or motives beyond killing Goku. Toriyama rarely does characters so mysterious. everyone blabs what their deal is almost immediately, so I assume that was the full 16 backstory. he was a robot Gero considered a failure
Why do you think it was so easy for Goten to go SSJ?
Yeah I found goofball Goku Super to be super annoying. Always doing his n_n face makes me cringe everytime He was like that on Z but not that extreme.
Didn't Goku lie to Chi Chi and sneak out of his own house like a bitch just so he could go train?If you look at Goku's actions like a way to make sure he doesn't have to go back home with her, it suddenly makes perfect sense.
"Fire your beam Piccolo !!!!!!!!! Even though I could have removed his tail permanently but whatever"
"I have to stay at the hospital Chichi I'm sorry, can't go home like this haha..."
"I'm gonna take a nice trip through space for months faaaar from home".
"Hey Shenron... please don't bring me back there... you have no idea what's like..."
"Oh nooooo, I have to sacrifice myself because Cell is gonna explode, this is tragic really. Oh BTW don't bring me back pls"
Goku's great mission has been trying to find ways to escape her.
Uub is his most successful attempt. Truly the perfect conclusion to the series.
Are they ever going to call #17/#18 by their real names? It makes zero sense for her husband to call her that now that they've been married for many years, lol.
Their names are out there, I think it's about time to switch and make it a permanent thing.
At least he's being written better in the latest episodes it seems, so hopefully he won't go back to being a complete idiot any time soon.
I assume instant transmission takes some concentration and short time to pull off sometimes so Buu would have to give up blocking a little and would eat the genki dama before teleporting
or something like that
and he didn't dodge anyway cause he thought he could take it. I mean, at least he starts pushing back
Cell did the same thing and he had just learned instant transmission. you could argue that Buu was just a primal dumb guy so he wouldn't think of dodging, but Cell was supposed to be intelligent
I have already explained this several times, but apparently you missed it, so I will repeat one last time: Vegeta not only died, he learned that his entire rematched with Goku was a lie since he was never Goku's equal after he sold his soul. So he threw aways his pride and dignity for nothing and died on a lie. On top of that, he's no used to Goku power-wise since he's weaker than any form of Buu and is basically just fusion fodder. This finally made Vegeta changed for the better instead of him having just a bout of conscience like in the Cell Saga. If you don't get it at this point, then you're not going to get it.
Oh his son died in the Cell Games, so what? It didn't get any lasting change out of him, unlike the what happened in the Buu Saga. It isn't like he gave a shit about Trunks until that moment.
I have already explained 18 several times, so read my previous posts on her.
Yeah, whatever. Trunks was a little bitch in the Cell Games.