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[Icyflamez96]

Piccolo still doesn't care about the universe being in danger and finds it exciting. On top of that, universes were going to erased regardless of Goku's actions.

Yes. 17 has endless stamina and can literally used his full power to waste all the fodder and still be fresh. Yet, he enjoys taking his time like he did against the cat magical girl.

It's like you just ignored what I said for the first point.

Did he? 17 said he just got sloppy because she reminded him of one of the island animals, then proceeded to refocus. That's different from being intentionally lackadaisical about it and constantly dropping his guard because he's not taking it as seriously. As I said, that scene where 17 interrupts the magical girls literally lays out the difference in how they're going about the tournament. They are not treating it the same.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Goku didn't either, he just wanted a friendly tournament with the other universes, but hey he gets shit for that too.

i'm surprised Hero didn't mention it in that post.

He's knew the risks and he went directly against Beerus and Whis's warning. It was reckless and selfish, as I said. He deserves being called out for that.

 

[Astral Dog]

Somewhere, Gowasu is in heaven drinking tea 🍵

 

[HeroR]

Goku didn't either, he just wanted a friendly tournament with the other universes, but hey he gets shit for that too.

i'm surprised Hero didn't mention it in that post.

Too many double standard for me to keep up with. Thank you for this.

This arc is definitely showing people's character bias.

It's like you just ignored what I said for the first point.

Did he? 17 said he just got sloppy because she reminded him of one of the island animals, then proceeded to refocus. That's different from being intentionally lackadaisical about it and constantly dropping his guard because he's not taking it as seriously. As I said, that scene where 17 interrupts the magical girls literally lays out the difference in how they're going about the tournament. They are not treating it the same.

Didn't ignore. The fact remains that Goku's selfish and reckless actions saved an universe. If he was 'reasonable', all the lower universe would be erased. That's the fact of the matter.

He got sloppy briefly and guess what, I still don't see him wasting the remaining fodder. In fact, Frieza has been doing a better job than him and he tortures people. He was lackadaisical and he isn't taking this completely seriously, especially after his hammed 'I'm evil speech'.

17 having a brief moment of being pragmatic doesn't suddenly excuse that he isn't really trying despite not having to worry about stamina.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Too many double standard for me to keep up with. Thank you for this.

This arc is definitely showing people's character bias.

Funny you say that because I actually like this about Goku's character right now. What I'm saying isn't wrong.

 

[HardRojo]

Somewhere, Gowasu is in heaven drinking tea 🍵

Both erased by Zeno (Alternate and Future Zamasu anyway).
Like master, like servant.

 

[Sony]

Y'all just want me to gran turismo on your assess don't you.

Spoiler

gran turismo = GT hehehe

 

[Laiza]

No. All the universes had a grudge against Goku with Toppo outright calling Goku evil and tried to actually kill him. When the Gods of Destruction had their meeting, they despised Goku for his relationship with Zen'o. U9 just had the biggest grudge with U4's God of Destruction having a rivilary with Beerus and Champa's sibling rival.

Fodder shouldn't stick around longer than needed unless they move the plot in someway. And not all fights need to be seen. Even Yu Yu Hakusho did this when we didn't see all the teams in the Dark Tourument fight.

All I can say is I completely disagree. I think they're wasting a lot of time with these stupid short fights and also completely wasting a lot of the potential of having team fights in the first place.

What's even the point of having teams if you're not actually showing any teamwork? Even the U7 teamwork phase barely had any screen time at all, it's pathetic.

I don't even know why you're trying so hard to defend Toei's decisions to me. I really, really, REALLY dislike the way the tournament's being handled and I am not going to change my mind by seeing these actions justified post-hoc.

 

[pauloshinobi]

Dudes, help me what really happened, because everytime there are considerations from these 2 perspectives:

a) Zen'o would wipe some universes anyway, so Goku proposed a tournament to give them a chance of survival.

b) Goku asked Zen'o for a tournament with strong fighters from other universes, and then they thought about erasing the losing universes.


I'm confused

 

[Icyflamez96]

Dudes, help me what really happened, because everytime there are considerations from these 2 perspectives:

a) Zen'o would wipe some universes anyway, so Goku proposed a tournament to give them a chance of survival.

b) Goku asked Zen'o for a tournament with strong fighters from other universes, and then they thought about erasing the losing universes.


I'm confused

a)

Though we don't when he was going to get to that.

 

[Infinite Justice]

He's knew the risks and he went directly against Beerus and Whis's warning. It was reckless and selfish, as I said. He deserves being called out for that.

The risks of what? asking for fucking tournament? one that both Beerus and Champa did with their own universes? there is no danger to resort to erasing anything at that point so i call bullshit on that.

Also he same Beerus and Whis who forbade him to ask Zeno to reconsider, even though hes seen as different by both Zenos? Why not call them out

He's just being the scapegoat which is unfortunate.

While his attitude with fighting can be see as annoying (even dating back to that shit he pulled in the Cell games) this is the one thing i think he gets unnecessary shit for.

 

[Sony]

Dudes, help me what really happened, because everytime there are considerations from these 2 perspectives:

a) Zen'o would wipe some universes anyway, so Goku proposed a tournament to give them a chance of survival.

b) Goku asked Zen'o for a tournament with strong fighters from other universes, and then they thought about erasing the losing universes.


I'm confused

a)

Though we don't when he was going to get to that.

A is false, as it assumes that Goku proposes the tournament BECAUSE Zeno was about to wipe out the universes. Goku had no idea Zeno would wipe out universes.

It's simple. Goku wanted a tournament, approached Zeno for it, and Zeno basically said "OK, but the losing universes will get deleted. I was planning on deleting some weak universes anyways".

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

Dudes, help me what really happened, because everytime there are considerations from these 2 perspectives:

a) Zen'o would wipe some universes anyway, so Goku proposed a tournament to give them a chance of survival.

b) Goku asked Zen'o for a tournament with strong fighters from other universes, and then they thought about erasing the losing universes.

I'm confused

We know from Future Trunks' timeline that Zeno wasn't bothered with deleting Universes yet, so I guess Goku cut the other Universes' lifespan at least

 

[NEO0MJ]

I wonder if Gohan will confront Goku about how he's taking this too lightly and simply thinking of it as a way to have some fun.

 

[Icyflamez96]

The risks of what? a fucking tournament, there is no danger to resort to erasing anything so i call bullshit on that.

Also he same Beerus and Whis who forbade him to ask Zeno to reconsider, even though hes seen as different by both Zenos? Why not call them out

He's just being the scapegoat which is unfortunate.

While his attitude with fight can be see as annoying (even dating back to that shit he pulled in the Cell games) this is one thing i think he gets unnecessary shit for.

Beerus and Whis has given him plenty of warning about Zeno and how dangerous and unpredictable he is. Moments before he went to ask Zeno about the tournament he had the clearest warning in the world, and he went ahead and did it anyway to fulfill his own fighting hit. What is not reckless and selfish about that? He was just "hoping" nothing would come about it aside from the tournament, but their warnings ended up being justified when Zeno did end up putting on unforseen circumstances.

 

[HeroR]

All I can say is I completely disagree. I think they're wasting a lot of time with these stupid short fights and also completely wasting a lot of the potential of having team fights in the first place.

What's even the point of having teams if you're not actually showing any teamwork? Even the U7 teamwork phase barely had any screen time at all, it's pathetic.

I don't even know why you're trying so hard to defend Toei's decisions to me. I really, really, REALLY dislike the way the tournament's being handled and I am not going to change my mind by seeing these actions justified post-hoc.

Disagree or not, it isn't bad writing for the story to go in the direction that was stated for months.

We have also seen plenty of team work from U9, U7, U11, and U6. Just because it's short doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And I really don't care. I only told you why the story was the way it was, nothing more. You can take it or leave it since your personally feelings on the matter is irrelevant to my post.

 

[Icyflamez96]

A is false, as it assumes that Goku proposes the tournament BECAUSE Zeno was about to wipe out the universes. Goku had no idea Zeno would wipe out universes.

It's simple. Goku wanted a tournament, approached Zeno for it, and Zeno basically said "OK, but the losing universes will get deleted. I was planning on deleting some weak universes anyways".

Oh right. I didnt inspect it as closely as I could have lol.

 

[Ataxia]

a)

Though we don't when he was going to get to that.

So? What's the difference between erasing a universes today and erasing a universe in... a 1000 years.

Either way a universe is gone.

 

[HeroR]

Beerus and Whis has given him plenty of warning about Zeno and how dangerous and unpredictable he is. Moments before he went to ask Zeno about the tournament he had the clearest warning in the world, and he went ahead and did it anyway to fulfill his own fighting hit. What is not reckless and selfish about that? He was just "hoping" nothing would come about it aside from the tournament, but their warnings ended up being justified when Zeno did end up putting on unforseen circumstances.

But they do have a point that Goku probably could have changed Zen'o's mind, but Whis and Beerus told him not to bother. Some epsoides later, some random fighter from U9 changed Zen'o's mind. So, we should get on Goku there for listening to Whis and Beerus since why not.

 

[Laiza]

Disagree or not, it isn't bad writing for the story to go in the direction that was stated for months.

We have also seen plenty of team work from U9, U7, U11, and U6. Just because it's short doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And I really don't care. I only told you why the story was the way it was, nothing more. You and take it or leave it since your personally feelings on the matter is irrelevant to my post.

No, but it is bad writing to make all the side characters look completely incompetent to play up the main characters... and then repeat that over, and over, and over again for two months straight.

And y'know, the fact that U10 got knocked out without a single scene of them fighting together as a group is a big part of the problem for me, too. You literally never see them working together. This despite all the group activities they participated in during the pre-tournament stage. This despite their literal universe being a part of the stakes.

All I'm saying is that, if this is good writing to you, your standards are incredibly fucking low.

 

[TheSpoiler]

So? What's the difference between erasing a universes today and erasing a universe in... a 1000 years.

Either way a universe is gone.

That's a 1000 years to enjoy life and prosper and possibly raise the mortal level, despite them not knowing about the stipulation.

 

[Sony]

So? What's the difference between erasing a universes today and erasing a universe in... a 1000 years.

Either way a universe is gone.

What the difference between dying now or when you die of old age? Either way you die.

 

[Icyflamez96]

But they do have a point that Goku probably could have changed Zen'o's mind, but Whis and Beerus told him not to bother. Some epsoides later, some random fighter from U9 changed Zen'o's mind. So, we should get on Goku there for listening to Whis and Beerus since why not.

I don't see how this affects the point I made.

 

[Skii]

No, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not attached to any particular character.

That makes no sense but okay...

Not sure how 'every' action he took sabotage his own universe. What, did Cali and Kale wipe half of U7 or something? And 17 and 18 were right there when he let them go, yet no one seems to give a shit about them. And did Gohan do more 'sabotage' since he let the weaker members of his universe go and fend for themselves?

They let them go because Goku would probably ring 17/18 out if they didn't leave him some U6 characters to team up with later.

That's because Goku wasn't a character in Z, he was a plot device. And Goku in Z honestly did more messed up things then Super Goku, but for some reason fans only seems to remember Goku giving Cell a Senzu, which was one of the tamest things he did. You want to talk about sabotage, how about him refusing to fused with Vegeta to kill Kid Buu because it wasn't fair to Buu since he wasn't a fusion anymore, despite Buu murdering his sons and remaining friends.

I don't know why you're using the Buu arc as some sort of defence. That arc devolved into numerous ass pulls so I don't even acknowledge it when I talk about Goku's character.

 

[The Last One]

That's a 1000 years to enjoy life and prosper and possibly raise the mortal level, despite them not knowing about the stipulation.

Still, that would mean 8 Universes being erased in 1000 year instead of 7 now.

That makes no sense but okay...

What doesn't make sense is you answer a post about Goku in the next episode with that sarcastic condescending "Oh c'mon you can't say bad stuff about Dragon Ball Super =(" type of response that had nothing to do with what was being discussed.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Beerus and Whis has given him plenty of warning about Zeno and how dangerous and unpredictable he is. Moments before he went to ask Zeno about the tournament he had the clearest warning in the world, and he went ahead and did it anyway to fulfill his own fighting hit. What is not reckless and selfish about that? He was just "hoping" nothing would come about it aside from the tournament, but their warnings ended up being justified when Zeno did end up putting on unforseen circumstances.

He believed nothing would come from it because nothing would come from it, unfortunately it was twisted enough to become something.

And then when it happened he was willing to ask for reconsideration, was barred from that and then some other chump was able to do what he was barred from while also twisting the story. Then the slippery slope starts

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Somewhere, Gowasu is in heaven drinking tea 🍵

Sad thing is that he's not.

The 3rd chapter of the Yamcha manga is out btw.

Spoiler

Chiaotzu is the villain!

 

[Ataxia]

That's a 1000 years to enjoy life and prosper and possibly raise the mortal level, despite them not knowing about the stipulation.

That's not Goku's problem, to be quite frank about it. Xeno decided that he was gonna erase the universes. Not wait to see how they would go down the line. That's all him.

 

[Icyflamez96]

He believed nothing would come from it because nothing would come from it, unfortunately it was twisted enough to become something.

And then when it happened he was willing to ask for reconsideration, was barred from that and then some other chump was able to do what he was barred from while also twisting the story. Then the slippery slope starts

I mean, something did come from it. Anyway, the outcome doesnt change the fact that it was a reckless risk to take and that he did it in spite of the risk for his own selfish gain.

 

[Ataxia]

What the difference between dying now or when you die of old age? Either way you die.

On a universal scale, it makes no difference. If our universe was erased today, my life would be cut short. If our universe was erased in a thousand years, I'd already be dead and someone else's life would be cut short instead of mine.

 

[HeroR]

No, but it is bad writing to make all the side characters look completely incompetent to play up the main characters... and then repeat that over, and over, and over again for two months straight.

And y'know, the fact that U10 got knocked out without a single scene of them fighting together as a group is a big part of the problem for me, too. You literally never see them working together. This despite all the group activities they participated in during the pre-tournament stage. This despite their literal universe being a part of the stakes.

All I'm saying is that, if this is good writing to you, your standards are incredibly fucking low.

Only a few did characters anything really stupid like Toppo sending five Pride Troopers who were weaker than Super Saiyan Goku instead of doing it himself and U9 got erased before they could learn from their mistake. Even then, characters being idiots isn't bad writing unless it goes against that character's personality. Vegeta, for example, was a moron in the Cell Saga, but it wasn't bad writing since Vegeta was in character. Just like how it wasn't bad writing for the humans in the Saiyan Saga to be cannon fodder.

U10 did fight together. The pig sumo and that bug thing teamed up in Cali and Kale in Epsoide 100. We also had U10's last stand being a 2v2. Yeah, they could've done more, but they weren't all solo fights.

Wow, a personal attack on my standards on writing because I don't agree with you. Grow the up child or leave the discussion to the adults.

What the difference between dying now or when you die of old age? Either way you die.

Except if you die in Dragon Ball, you go to heaven or hell. Zen'o eraser means you don't exist at all.

Not the same thing.

 

[ElyrionX]

Guys, c'mon now. This is Dragonball. Goku is going to win and use the Dragonballs to wish all the universes back. There's no way they are going to let the universes get erased because of Goku's actions.

 

[Real Hero]

Guys, c'mon now. This is Dragonball. Goku is going to win and use the Dragonballs to wish all the universes back. There's no way they are going to let the universes get eraseddbecause of Goku's actions.

tell that to trunks

 

[HeroR]

That makes no sense but okay...



They let them go because Goku would probably ring 17/18 out if they didn't leave him some U6 characters to team up with later.



I don't know why you're using the Buu arc as some sort of defence. That arc devolved into numerous ass pulls so I don't even acknowledge it when I talk about Goku's character.

Now you're making crap up. Goku ring out his own teammates, despite him not killing Vegeta for murdering the Ginyu Force in cold blood when he tried to spare them? And 17, whose on par with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, will just let Goku ring him out. Yeah, sure.

Every arc in Dragon Ball had Goku doing stuff from him sparing Vegeta who vowed to kill everyone upon his return, him sparing Frieza several times, him wanting to fight the Androids despite being told how they murdered everyone including his son, and he gave Cell a senzu.

 

[HardRojo]

tell that to trunks

Where is that family dinner picture lol.

 

[The Last One]

Guys, c'mon now. This is Dragonball. Goku is going to win and use the Dragonballs to wish all the universes back. There's no way they are going to let the universes get erased because of Goku's actions.

The Universes are getting erased because of God's will, I don't think he would like the idea of Goku bringing them back.

 

[Icyflamez96]

On a universal scale, it makes no difference. If our universe was erased today, my life would be cut short. If our universe was erased in a thousand years, I'd already be dead and someone else's life would be cut short instead of mine.

Whether or not one sees value in 1000 more years of multiuniversal life, people currently living definitely have reason to be mad at Goku. Also, you're forgetting about his mortal level point. That's at least 1000 years of opportunity to raise a mortal level.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I wouldn't call him useless, but there seems to be a double standard with Goku when it comes to every character in this arc:

Goku doesn't give a shit about other the other universes, so he's a monster. No one else gives a shit about the other universes and are only worried about their own universe with 18 wanting money, yet no one seems to call them out on this and instead gets on Goku for being heartless.

Goku is excited for a tournament with the fate of his universe on the line and is called s sociopath. Piccolo is excited for a tournament with the universe on the line, but no one says anything.

Goku doesn't care that people sees him as evil and fans called this worrisome. 17 doesn't mind being called evil and hams it up and he's called awesome.

Goku lied to his friends, he's a terrible person. Gohan was the one who told him to lie, yet no one gets on Gohan for this, in or out of universe.

Goku isn't taking the tournament seriously and he's dicking around, so he's horrible. 17 is dicking around and he doesn't have to save stamina, yet he's seen as cool when he plays around. He's also praised for helping his teammates, despite him only helping Goku and didn't do anything to help 18 when she was nearly ringed or Krillin, yet Goku is blamed for not helping Krillin.

Goku wanted Frieza to increased U7's chances of winning when the rest of the team was willing to gamble with only having nine people, yet fans accused Goku of not being serious and not understanding the stakes.

Goku is blamed for helping other universes by letting Kale and Cali go, despite 17 and 18 being right next to him and did nothing with 17 voicing his approval, yet no one seems to care about them and solely blames Goku.

Gohan abandons his weaker team members, but absolutely no one really cares since Gohan is finally fighting, while Goku was called a terrible teammate when he broke away from the group.

I don't mind fans getting on Goku for the above, but why is he the only one constantly criticized for the above when other characters do the exact same thing or enables Goku's behavior when they don't have to listen to him?

^^^

 

[Romars202129]

I think she was a good match for 17, but the problem was that Goku and 17 together was just too much, especially since Goku took out Rosie without transforming.

But agree that Gohan vs. U10 was lackluster and Piccolo's 'fight'....yeah. At least he got a KO, I guess.

I know they were fighting evenly, but I think the framing paints 17 as out of her league. Otherwise 17's ultimatum was dickish to hell if he was saying it to someone equal.

Would have been better if Rozie hadn't used it 5 minutes before.

And it looked 5 times better too...

Sad thing is that he's not.

The 3rd chapter of the Yamcha manga is out btw.

Spoiler

Chiaotzu is the villain!

No f-ing way! Thats gold!

 

[Wheeljack539]

The Universes are getting erased because of God's will, I don't think he would like the idea of Goku bringing them back.

Yet that God is practically a child and Goku is his first bestest friend.

It's sad to think but Whis probably made a mistake in not letting Goku go see Zeno to ask to change his mind as in all likelihood Zeno would have been, "Ok!".

 

[Laiza]

Only a few did characters anything really stupid like Toppo sending five Pride Troopers who were weaker than Super Saiyan Goku instead of doing it himself and U9 got erased before they could learn from their mistake. Even then, characters being idiots isn't bad writing unless it goes against that character's personality. Vegeta, for example, was a moron in the Cell Saga, but it wasn't bad writing since Vegeta was in character. Just like how it wasn't bad writing for the humans in the Saiyan Saga to be cannon fodder.

But having no tension at all because you 100% know how every encounter will end is not bad writing?

I mean, the whole reason the Saiyan saga worked was because of that overwhelming sense of dread that was just omnipresent. Same thing with Vegeta letting Cell become perfect, because it was totally in-character that he would do such a thing and nobody knew just how strong he would become there was an incredible sense of "oh shit things are going south".

The tournament, by contrast, has been so devoid of any tension that the stakes don't even feel real. This is kind of a bad sign, considering that one of the biggest goals of writing out a tournament like this is to give people that sense of catharsis when fighters you want to root for squeeze through an incredibly difficult trial with an overwhelming opponent, but right now U7 has been on top in every single episode and it's pretty much impossible to root for them because they're not the underdogs.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain bad writing all around. It's impossible for me to care when they don't even try to give me the slightest impression that anyone in U7 is in any sort of real danger. And yes, I am well aware that this will likely change in the coming episodes, but that doesn't help me appreciate the episodes we've got any better.

U10 did fight together. The pig sumo and that bug thing teamed up in Cali and Kale in Epsoide 100. We also had U10's last stand being a 2v2. Yeah, they could've done more, but they weren't all solo fights.

The latter fight was two 1v1s, not a 2v2. I did forget about the one instance with Kale, but I think I was too distracted by how Kale was being portrayed to even note which universe those characters were.

Either way, not good enough for me. In a team of 10 we should be seeing more than just two fighters working together at a time. The U9 episode and the Pride Trooper episode were the closest we got to that and even then they omitted a bunch of fighters from the action. It's just really unsatisfying to watch and raises a bunch of questions (especially with regards to just how much Toppo and Jiren actually care about all of this).

Wow, a personal attack on my standards on writing because I don't agree with you. Grow the up child or leave the discussion to the adults.

I mean, I'm watching a bunch of series that consistently manage to be way more engaging than this show, so as far as I'm concerned there's no way I can praise this series' writing and, by my standards, it hasn't been anywhere near good enough, so ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[HeroR]

Whether or not one sees value in 1000 more years of multiuniversal life, people currently living definitely have reason to be mad at Goku. Also, you're forgetting about his mortal level point. That's at least 1000 years of opportunity to raise a mortal level.

Which the gods didn't even know was low. So how can they raise something they're not aware of?

And people currently living would be erased from existence regardless of it happened later. Eraser means, you don't exist, not that you go to the afterlife sooner.

I know they were fighting evenly, but I think the framing paints 17 as out of her league. Otherwise 17's ultimatum was dickish to hell if he was saying it to someone equal.

It's 17.

 

[TheSpoiler]

That's not Goku's problem, to be quite frank about it. Xeno decided that he was gonna erase the universes. Not wait to see how they would go down the line. That's all him.

Well it is problem since his desedents would be nuked for his universe. The point is, any number of things could have changed in those 1000 years. Maybe Xeno decided not to. Now there's no time.

Still, that would mean 8 Universes being erased in 1000 year instead of 7 now.



What doesn't make sense is you answer a post about Goku in the next episode with that sarcastic condescending "Oh c'mon you can't say bad stuff about Dragon Ball Super =(" type of response that had nothing to do with what was being discussed.

Not if Xeno changed shit along the way. Dude is flippant. Not for sure, but Goku eliminated the possibility by setting this up.

 

[caliph95]

I know they were fighting evenly, but I think the framing paints 17 as out of her league. Otherwise 17's ultimatum was dickish to hell if he was saying it to someone equal.



And it looked 5 times better too...



No f-ing way! Thats gold!

Which annoys me
Like why even bother, the fight wasn't even that good at least have it be a challenge otherwise I'm just watching punch flurry and more fodder

Grand Priest: Fodders will totally be out this time, I promise guys

 

[Icyflamez96]

Yet that God is practically a child and Goku is his first bestest friend.

It's sad to think but Whis probably made a mistake in not letting Goku go see Zeno to ask to change his mind as in all likelihood Zeno would have been, "Ok!".

What if Whis knew Goku could and is actually in on the scheme 👀

 

[Infinite Justice]

Yet that God is practically a child and Goku is his first bestest friend.

It's sad to think but Whis probably made a mistake in not letting Goku go see Zeno to ask to change his mind as in all likelihood Zeno would have been, "Ok!".

Bergamo already showed that it was possible, he just got the task of trying to beat Goku *shrug*

 

[The Last One]

Not if Xeno changed shit along the way. Dude is flippant. Not for sure, but Goku eliminated the possibility by setting this up.

Yet that God is practically a child and Goku is his first bestest friend.

It's sad to think but Whis probably made a mistake in not letting Goku go see Zeno to ask to change his mind as in all likelihood Zeno would have been, "Ok!".

What I think it'll happen. The Great Priest will betray Zen and imprision him or something like this, Goku and the others will save the day and in return goku will ask to Zen to bring back the erased universes. The End.

 

[HeroR]

But having no tension at all because you 100% know how every encounter will end is not bad writing?

I mean, the whole reason the Saiyan saga worked was because of that overwhelming sense of dread that was just omnipresent. Same thing with Vegeta letting Cell become perfect, because it was totally in-character that he would do such a thing and nobody knew just how strong he would become there was an incredible sense of "oh shit things are going south".

The tournament, by contrast, has been so devoid of any tension that the stakes don't even feel real. This is kind of a bad sign, considering that one of the biggest goals of writing out a tournament like this is to give people that sense of catharsis when fighters you want to root for squeeze through an incredibly difficult trial with an overwhelming opponent, but right now U7 has been on top in every single episode and it's pretty much impossible to root for them because they're not the underdogs.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain bad writing all around. It's impossible for me to care when they don't even try to give me the slightest impression that anyone in U7 is in any sort of real danger. And yes, I am well aware that this will likely change in the coming episodes, but that doesn't help me appreciate the episodes we've got any better.


The latter fight was two 1v1s, not a 2v2. I did forget about the one instance with Kale, but I think I was too distracted by how Kale was being portrayed to even note which universe those characters were.

Either way, not good enough for me. In a team of 10 we should be seeing more than just two fighters working together at a time. The U9 episode and the Pride Trooper episode were the closest we got to that and even then they omitted a bunch of fighters from the action. It's just really unsatisfying to watch and raises a bunch of questions (especially with regards to just how much Toppo and Jiren actually care about all of this).


I mean, I'm watching a bunch of series that consistently manage to be way more engaging than this show, so as far as I'm concerned there's no way I can praise this series' writing and, by my standards, it hasn't been anywhere near good enough, so ¯_(&#12484_/¯

I don't see how fodder staying around longer build tension. It's the opposite for me since if fodder is still hanging in there, someone isn't doing their job.

Tension is also overrated since I never doubt that the heroes won't win in a Shonen or come out alive. So I never felt dread in any arc of Dragon Ball or Z. Saiyan Saga, everyone is being killed and I felt nothing from it because I know the genre I'm watching even as a kid. So unless the show pulls a Future Trunks Saga, I'm not pulled in on the whole, "oh no, the good guys can't win". What interest me is 'how' the good guys win, not if. And don't get me started on the Cell Saga and it's false tension.

Bad writing is something you can objectify, not a personal opinion. You can despise something that is well-writing, just as you can love something that's writing by a five years old. So you can hate Super's writing all you want, it isn't bad writing for Super to do exactly what it said it was going to do.

And as I said, I don't care about your personal feelings. You can call my taste crap all you want. I told you why things happened the way it did and even agreed U10 could've team up more, although you were factually wrong about U10 never teaming up. Other than that, your opinion is whatever to me.

 

[Fulminator]

just watched the episode again and man the 17 and goku part of this episode was so good, especially the 17 part, i love how is he is playing along with ribrianne's theatrics, and the music that plays during that scene is really good too. Goku's fight choreography against Rozie is really good, but I wish he had ringed her out since he knows she isn't a challenge for him, mostly just because I want Ribrianne to get more pissed.

Gohan's fight was decent, but I wish he had gotten some better choreography instead of just getting the Vegeta treatment with all the punches. At least he got some cool moves in at the end, and there was a little bit of the slick Tateness, but not Tate's best really. His "fight" against Botamo was kind of dumb too since it didn't seem in line with how Botamo's power worked, but w.e. lol

At least Piccolo got to look cool for a minute, even if he did get punched in the face a moment before lol.

As I said before though, I am excited for next week's episode, seems like it will have some nice art and animation.


i kind wanna make that bulla+pan fusion my avatar, but I like being zeno so idk :/

 

[Icyflamez96]

Which the gods didn't even know was low. So how can they raise something they're not aware of?

And people currently living would be erased from existence regardless of it happened later. Eraser means, you don't exist, not that you go to the afterlife sooner.



It's 17.

They don't have to "know" to raise their mortal level. They just have to do your job.

Especially looking at a universe like 10, which seems like it would only be improving and have good opportunity to rise passed the threshold.

I still think there's value to 1000 years of life. You apparently don't, but I do. I'm not a "we're all gonna die someday so it doesn't matter" type of guy. So you have to realize there are different valid ways to look at the situation and your's isn't the end all be all. I definitely think Goku deserves crap for his actions.

Also, what I'm saying is people who are living won't get to enjoy the rest of their conscious lives because of Goku. Being reincarnated would be the same as being erased to many of these people, because their consciousness is going either way. They have a right to be mad at Goku that it is being cut short.