perfectchaos007 said:
Here are the radiation level reading reports from 108 monitoring posts outside 20km evacuation zone ( updated 4 times daily), read it for yourself please.
http://www.mext.go.jp/english/radioactivity_level/detail/1304082.htm
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Earthquake in Japan Magnitude 9.0 (Japan ups nuke crisis to lvl7)
- Thread starter FINALFANTASYDOG
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Here are the radiation level reading reports from 108 monitoring posts outside 20km evacuation zone ( updated 4 times daily), read it for yourself please.
http://www.mext.go.jp/english/radioactivity_level/detail/1304082.htm
Shouta
Member
perfectchaos007 said:
No, government is doing a fine job, it's TEPCO who's being run by a bunch of morons. Besides, it's not really downplaying so much as they aren't being straight. Japanese, even in the media, tend to beat around the bush (unless it's for entertainment value) and a lot of folks are angry more so for that than anything. This is one of those times that you really shouldn't do that sort of thing.
On the other hand, the Japanese media's coverage of everything is very good. They've been trying to inform and report to folks about what's going on and what are the possible effects. It's been fairly thorough and there hasn't been much alarmist reporting as far as I've seen.
perfectchaos007
Member
luoapp said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, the readings are taken from at least 20km away from the nuclear plant?
Shouta said:
well that's good to hear. And if I'm reading that graph thing correctly then I really don't know why the crisis has been elevated to lvl. 7. Yes I know thats Chrynoble level but even still that seems way too high. I'm assuming potential energy is added into the equation and if something does go wrong then yeah it could have damage like Chrynoble.
perfectchaos007
Member
luoapp said:
oh yeah of course but generally the heavy ammounts of radiation doesn't travel much further than 20km. I'm just curious as to how bad the site is. Are they planning to abandon the area forever like Chrynoble or 3 mile island? I'm sure there are still workers for the plant that are in the evacuation zone
Shouta said:
okay that makes sense.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
This is so depressing. You can't really downplay this, it's bad no matter how you look at it. The situation continues to escalate out of control, and the installation keeps getting more damaged. We can't just say "okay, that was it."
Shouta said:
From what I understand, TEPCO and Japanese government re-evaluated the radiation released since the earthquake, and based on the information they have now, it exceeds tens of thousands of TBq, then according to the IAEA procedure, it automatically bumps the level to 7.
perfectchaos007 said:
The plant is planned to close permanently, the size of the restricted zone is still unknown. The reason I really want people to read the reading report is it shows exactly the situation is still severe, but getting better, and definitely not "out of control".
Shouta said:
>the Japanese media's coverage of everything is very good
Probably it's the independent journalists that are contributing to the true coverage. Most main streams, especially privately owned TV stations, have deep connections with tepco (main sponsor), and have been reluctant to confront them directly. Many critical questions at the press conference were brought up by freelancers, such as the whereabout of the CEO, why there was no measurement of Pu. When they tried to push for answers, they were even booed by those reporters from main streams, most of whom are members of kisha club.
Here is a study session featuring one of the independent journalists, discussing the lack of transparency and bias in reporting.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14085305
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
There's plenty of cronyism in Japan and the media is no stranger to it. It's just the way things have been working in Japan for so long, nobody really can speak out against it without getting shamed or shooed out by the incumbent group. It also doesn't help that speaking indrectly is the norm here for most situations.
The only straight talk you usually get from the common Japanese are through cannels like 2channel and children.
I had a fun day at school today. 2 of my classes had earthquakes in the middle of them. Great way to start off my first classes of the school year. The funny thing is that I didn't notice the second one until I saw most of the kids sliding under their desks. I'm glad I work in a modern school that was built less than 10 years ago.
The only straight talk you usually get from the common Japanese are through cannels like 2channel and children.
I had a fun day at school today. 2 of my classes had earthquakes in the middle of them. Great way to start off my first classes of the school year. The funny thing is that I didn't notice the second one until I saw most of the kids sliding under their desks. I'm glad I work in a modern school that was built less than 10 years ago.
Shouta
Member
zoom29 said:
Of course there's a lot of problems with Japanese media. That doesn't really change that the media has been reporting what's happening and been thorough about explaining everything for the regular folks. If the Japanese media was really irresponsible, there'd be a lot more problems now because of folks that panicked.
I can certainly see why freelancers were booed though because at the time (and even to an extent right now) it's not as important to expose how incompetent the idiots are TEPCO are than it is to make sure the correct information is being put out and the people are hearing the things that they should be. Nailing the fools at TEPCO can come later.
I hate to admit it, mainly because I have no suggestions on alternatives, but this series of events has pretty much turned me from being pro to anti nuclear power. At the outset of the situation there were a LOT of fists banging on tables and loud proclamations being made (some of them on GAF, even) about how this would NOT be another Chernobyl, period, and anyone who would even suggest otherwise, or even suggest a high level of concern, was an ignorant alarmist. There were declarations made about how primary containment at one of these reactors could "pretty much withstand an H-bomb" - and since then we've learned that primary containment has apparently failed on at least one reactor.
In the most literal sense, the fist-pounders were right - this isn't another Chernobyl in that there hasn't been (nor likely will be) a massive explosion of a reactor core, no shower of graphite, etc. But in the practical sense, IE - in real world speak, things are headed in a bad direction and any number of failsafes have not stopped this sequence of failures from continuing down the line. It's not "another Chernobyl" - in a sense it's already worse than that because rather than replaying a script that's been analyzed a million times over, it's a unique scenario with unique problems and there isn't much to fall back on in terms of confronting the problem with knowledge gleaned from Chernobyl. And that's what has largely turned my opinion around. Every time we encounter a failure at a nuclear plant, it's going to be something brand new. And that issue will be identified and fixed, and things will be OK until the next new problem comes along. In most applications that's acceptable to various degrees. But when you're dealing with atomic energy, you're playing God and you don't get do-overs. The weight of consequence versus benefit is way, way off balance. And the fulcrum is humanity, in that these are systems designed by human beings. There are inherent flaws because we are not omnipotent beings. Unless the leaking radiation mutates us INTO omnipotent beings, or unless we figure out a way to eliminate any possible risk of leaking dangerous levels of radiation into the environment, I just can't bring myself to continue to support nuclear power.
That said, like I already mentioned, what's the alternative? That's the really distressing thing...
In the most literal sense, the fist-pounders were right - this isn't another Chernobyl in that there hasn't been (nor likely will be) a massive explosion of a reactor core, no shower of graphite, etc. But in the practical sense, IE - in real world speak, things are headed in a bad direction and any number of failsafes have not stopped this sequence of failures from continuing down the line. It's not "another Chernobyl" - in a sense it's already worse than that because rather than replaying a script that's been analyzed a million times over, it's a unique scenario with unique problems and there isn't much to fall back on in terms of confronting the problem with knowledge gleaned from Chernobyl. And that's what has largely turned my opinion around. Every time we encounter a failure at a nuclear plant, it's going to be something brand new. And that issue will be identified and fixed, and things will be OK until the next new problem comes along. In most applications that's acceptable to various degrees. But when you're dealing with atomic energy, you're playing God and you don't get do-overs. The weight of consequence versus benefit is way, way off balance. And the fulcrum is humanity, in that these are systems designed by human beings. There are inherent flaws because we are not omnipotent beings. Unless the leaking radiation mutates us INTO omnipotent beings, or unless we figure out a way to eliminate any possible risk of leaking dangerous levels of radiation into the environment, I just can't bring myself to continue to support nuclear power.
That said, like I already mentioned, what's the alternative? That's the really distressing thing...
Even accepting your rather tenuous premise about every nuclear plant failure being "something brand new", what exactly are the consequences of an event like Fukushima and why do they weigh more than the benefits? Do also compare the speculative consequences with those of that occur in the process of harvesting some other sources of energy. In short, the post of yours could as well be substituted with "ATOMS"FStop7 said:
teruterubozu
Member
Jintor said:
Well, we don't even know when it will be completely contained; so no.
perfectchaos007 said:
lol i was reading reuters today and they quoted someone saying that japan typically dribbled out infor, dribble dribble dribble, admission, knee jerk triple double over reaction
so far that seems to be whats happening
but it also said despite being on the same level as chernobyl, it was about 10 % of that in reality and unless they seal it up soon it shouldnt be nearly as bad
fingers crossed
Hence the term "investment" since it is the holy grail of energy sources. I'm talking about R&D on how to use solar at a better scale, even if it means we created an artificial ring around the planet to gain the best possible source without interference from the atmosphere. But since we're too busy squabbling over makeshift borders I don't see anything happening on a grand scale in the forseeable future.wsippel said:
FlashFlooder
Member
threenote said:
No.
And everyone fretting about them changing the disaster's level on some arbitrary scale... why? It's not like anything about the situation has changed in the last 24 hours. Yes, this will have long-lasting environmental effects, but if they are confined to the area directly around the plant I don't think it even warrants a comparison to Chernobyl. And it's not like we didn't already know there was going to be some fallout from this event.
Jintor said:
they said going to level 7, in the report that i read, meant long term environmental damages, they have something like 60 000 litres of contaminated water to dispose of and any more explosions would put more radiation in the air
they have asked people up to 60 ks north of fukishima, and 40 ks south to move but right now the immediate get out zone is 20 k
FlashFlooder
Member
m3k said:
The contaminated water is easily disposed of, it's a regular activity in the nuclear industry.
3-mile island is an operational nuclear plant today.
FlashFlooder said:
as long as they seal up the leaking... chernobyl was terrible cause it was not contained and floated all around europe, this is pretty much contained.... but they need to seal it because eventually it will end up being worse, obviously
im not telling you im just adding on to what you said
Mockingbird
Member
Radiation levels are still continuously dropping around Tokyo/Yokohama. Thank goodness. In other good news, Yogurt is somewhat back in stock now but still no coffee milk.
FlashFlooder
Member
They could rig something up on-site to get most of that water cleaned up. I suspect the only reason they haven't done so already is because they've had other priorities.
the biggest issue with Chernobyl is that the plant burned for 3 days before the USSR even admitted there was a problem. A plant in Finland was picking up radiation readings before they even began to try to mitigate the damage (beyond just putting out the raging fire).
the biggest issue with Chernobyl is that the plant burned for 3 days before the USSR even admitted there was a problem. A plant in Finland was picking up radiation readings before they even began to try to mitigate the damage (beyond just putting out the raging fire).
apparently the change from level 6 to 7 was to indicate it would affect countries outside of europe... the level 6 is something like some deaths and environmental damages, whereas the level 7 is for a more widespread impact... cant really be compared to chernobyl even though the level is the same
ugh this is terrible
they are pumping in nitrogen i think to balance the carbon dioxcide to prevent another explosion, excuse me if im wrong im drunk and i never did chemistry
ugh this is terrible
they are pumping in nitrogen i think to balance the carbon dioxcide to prevent another explosion, excuse me if im wrong im drunk and i never did chemistry
Slayven said:
FlashFlooder
Member
FStop7 said:
I can tell you that both the scenarios that happened at this plant (loss of offsite power, and loss of coolant) are heavily planned for, at least in the US. Hell, they're considered at the design level nowadays.
You're right, it is bad. But I have to disagree when you say it's "escalating out of control". Trust me, you'd be hearing a lot more about it if it were.
Don't lose hope guys. There's still a very good chance that the impact from this will be minimal.
Masked Man
I said wow
Shouta said:
This this this. I have a number of close friends and people very dear to me in Eastern Honshu, and nothing has been more frustrating for me than to be unable to accurately gauge the severity of what's been happening over the past month. I was livid when I first heard TEPCO pull that ご迷惑をおかけします bullshit.
That Nuclear plant is a major concern. Even Chernobyl didn't have to deal with recurring natural disasters during clean up. I don't know how Japan is going to deal with this, let alone the cleanup from the quakes, aftershocks and tsunami. If this was a 3rd world country, it would be destroyed.
Hi guys, just wanted to let people know that my favourite artist is doing a print for the Fukushima Nuclear Power plant employees and their families.
Link to the print:
http://zerofriends.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=420
There is also a smaller non-limited run also for $10
Link to the print:
http://zerofriends.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=420
There is also a smaller non-limited run also for $10
Frankfurter
Member
wsippel said:
Actually it's about on par with offshore wind and continues to get cheaper at a rate of about 10% per year.
FlashFlooder
Member
Ignignort said:
Love Alex Pardee!
someone actually said "this type of reactor could never be involved in a situation classified as a 7"?
The US has spent fuel ponds only contained by metal buildings in some locations, I think the entire world will need to look into modernization/safeguarding against a catastrophe like this.
I think Fukishima earns its 7 rating just by how many reactors/nuclear material is involved here, along with the limited release. It certainly hasn't spread around like Chernobyl and the cleanup effort will take a long time. The aftershocks are probably weighing into it as well.
I think Fukishima earns its 7 rating just by how many reactors/nuclear material is involved here, along with the limited release. It certainly hasn't spread around like Chernobyl and the cleanup effort will take a long time. The aftershocks are probably weighing into it as well.
BlazingDarkness
Member
It may be a level 7 but there really is no comparison to Chernobyl, in terms of human disaster it's completely different circumstances - the nature of the Chernobyl meltdown was very much more dramatic, there was no evacuation like we have with Fukushima, and product such as water/milk which was contaminated at Chernobyl were still consumed by those in the area - thus the human devestation was immesurable.
It's entirely possible that more radiation is leaked from the Fukushima crisis and the financial/economic damage is almost impossible to gauge at this point, but in terms of immediate threat it's not quite the same 'level 7' we've seen before
It's entirely possible that more radiation is leaked from the Fukushima crisis and the financial/economic damage is almost impossible to gauge at this point, but in terms of immediate threat it's not quite the same 'level 7' we've seen before
Jack Random
Member
-viper- said:
You're aware of how ridiculous that sounds, right?
MadraptorMan
Member
Anyone have any thoughts on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rGiHdmsfUI
My gut reaction is that this is just someone trying to stoke the fires of sensationalism, but I have no idea how those sensors work so I was hoping someone here would be able to debunk it or dismiss it or whatever.
My gut reaction is that this is just someone trying to stoke the fires of sensationalism, but I have no idea how those sensors work so I was hoping someone here would be able to debunk it or dismiss it or whatever.
FlashFlooder
Member
-viper- said:
Turn off your TV.
that's showing microSieverts, which is a minuscule scale. So, it's not as bad as it looks. For reference, the average background radiation globally is 0.23μSv/h.
No, their government is not doing their job. At this time it doesn't matter what caused this or which company should be blamed. At this time the most important thing for Japanese government to do is to stop the radiation spreading as soon as possible, to actually protect their people you know. Instead, they just stand there and let a retarded company (which happens to own quite a chunk of govt's debts btw) to keep hiding shit and dumping radiative water into sea. Seriously where is their army at the moment? Aren't they supposed to have the 3rd biggest military budget in the world?Shouta said:
MadraptorMan
Member
FlashFlooder said:
Good to know, thanks.
FlashFlooder
Member
I replaced the TMI reference in my original post with an hourly rate, which is more applicable. But all the same, it's not really cause for alarm.
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