May have already been seen in TMS...? The heck? TMS had standard dungeon design and a slight lack of polish. Zzz
The second complaint seems like a typical cultural disconnect.
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Edge #305/May - Rime (Also Persona 5 review)
- Thread starter Visualante2
- Start date
May have already been seen in TMS...? The heck? TMS had standard dungeon design and a slight lack of polish. Zzz
The second complaint seems like a typical cultural disconnect.
*visibly confused man shaking at incredibly high speeds youtube video.jpg*
Well didn't p3 and p4 have auto generated dungeons? #fe did have actual built dungeons with some light puzzles as bland as some of them were. Everything I've heard about p5 is that atlus is continuing the trend of hand made dungeons and now they actually look really good.
zidanelucis
Banned
There goes its chances of ever hitting 95+. Edge sealed the fate.
But the disparity in quality between the two is huge, huge, huge. P5 builds on P4's dungeon mechanics and makes it a 100x better. It's not really similar experience to #fe at all.
The Greek Freak
Member
Don't be the person who throws a hissy fit about a games meta critic score.
Unless you are a dev who's bonus relies on a meta score, just don't look at it. It doesn't matter, it won't make the game more or less enjoyable when you play it.
eyeball_kid
Member
The game's possible moralizing aside, if these are the reviewer's main criticisms, then they basically come down to "I wasn't surprised enough." Which strikes me as an unfair way to review a game that's part of a long series. Of course the gameplay is not going to be completely surprising; that's what makes it a series. And instead of lauding Atlus for using hand-crafted dungeons this time, you seem to be saying that the reviewer thinks they're not fresh because they already saw the dungeon changes in Tokyo Mirage Sessions? What? Shouldn't a game be reviewed on its own merits?
zidanelucis
Banned
Think you missed my point. I was being sarcastic haha. Essentially commenting those exact people you're referring too. I can't stand people like that. Couldn't care less about the MC score. If a game is good, a game is good.
Visualante2
Member
I'm going to stop posting excerpts from reviews because it is embarrassing how people on this board pick them apart when they disagree. Especially bad when posters try to extrpolate a two page review from a couple sentences I summarised or quoted.
For real? I'm still kinda on media blackout for the game but if that's true then that's awesome.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Wildlands is as good as Bomberman R /s
Bomberman is better.
Persona 3/4 were already 100hours games.
Not for me personally.
Regardless I'm curious to hear how long P5 is on average for most people.
Yeah, I don't have an issue with the score but the reasoning seems off. "P5 massively improves on dungeons and gameplay mechanics but we already saw handcrafted dungeons in a completely unrelated series so whatever" is some really odd criticism. Complaints about the game not being "different" enough are fair, I suppose, but then again Edge consistently rates the Souls games in the 9s and 10s and it's one of the most formulaic franchises around.
I'll wait until there's a transcript or scan of the review though.
not that 8 is a bad score but aren't you the guy who played it in japanese but doesn't know japanese?
Yeah. Not sure how it relates go Edge's score though. It's invalid because I didn't understand the Japanese game I played?
I'd imagine that it's because the battles are largely unchanged, and the game structure, right down to the narrative, is very familiar. It's not the same, but it definitely follows the same framework.
Coolbgdog12
Member
Oh boy.
It's like imagine if there was a early review thread for TLOU and the first score was Gamespot's 8/10. One reviewer isn't the final say.
It's like imagine if there was a early review thread for TLOU and the first score was Gamespot's 8/10. One reviewer isn't the final say.
Coolbgdog12
Member
Persona 5's battle system isn't a complete shift but to say it's largely unchanged is selling it short. It's way better.
1-2 Switch having a better score is what puzzles me.
Dead End Irony
Member
Especially with Edge. I think I'm gonna stay out of the review thread and just occasionally peek at the Metacritic score. Plus some people here seem to get excited every time there's something negative said about the game lol.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Considering P4G reached a Metacritic of 93 despite Edge's 8, I'd say the 95+ Persona 5 dream is still going strong.
Never give in.
Never give up.
Never give in.
Never give up.
AcademicSaucer
Member
You have to give a fuck about the characters to enjoy a Persona game.
Persona 4 Golden got a 9 from Edge.
I still think anyone expecting a 95 is setting the bar way too high. No JRPG has ever scored that much. The reactions to the inevitable 5-6/10 outlier that'll lower the score a notch won't be pretty.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
In all the years I've been on GAF, the outrage over Edge scores never sees to amaze. We've also been through virtually every kind of accusation towards the magazine you can think of. "EDGE hates JRPG" is not new, but it's not one we've seen in a while.
It's of course bullshit. And like always the outrage is caused by people who clearly don't read the magazine regularly or understand its history or review policy. "Eight" in Edge is the mark of excellence. It's awarded to exceptional games. "Five" is the mark of average- Not good, not bad. Edge scores towards the mean, unlike most online outlets where a decent game is a 7/10, which is stupid.
A poster in this thread argues that 8 in Edge for Persona is problematic because it will hurt the MC score and says that it is unjustified because Persona is underrated and deserves the exposure. I don't disagree that Persona deserves exposure, but it is not the reviews purpose to politicize a games renown and exposure. All a review is, is a feature with the spice of a personal and biased opinion.
Still to this day, many people don't understand even key basics about the purpose of a review. Some people seem to think that you're supposed to find reviewers and outlets who align with your own tastes and then take their words as gospel on what is good or bad. This is ignorant and idiotic thinking.
You're not supposed to base or internalize your own opinions due to the review.
You can get the most out of reviews you disagree with fundamentally. The purpose of the review is to inform you, and make you make up YOUR mind about if you would like to play it. Just because the biased reviewer doesn't like something or think something is not great, doesn't mean others will not. But people lose side of that when they become intellectually dishonest and/or lazy and only focus on the score.
A review score cannot mean the same thing for different players. Fans, newcomers, JRPG traditionalists, haters- People are going to respond differently to a score depending on their relationship, knowledge and exposure to the style, franchise, type or format being reviewed.
So this idea that any score can ever be as "objective as possible" or as "unbiased as possible" is a crock of shit. There is no reviewer or outlet who is unbiased. Every person is unique and is going to have their own intricate opinions, quirks, preferences and knee jerks. For the love of god, stop deducing opinions of others to a bunch of decimals. It's fucking infruiatingly. Step away from Metacritic- Some people here have a dangerous and toxic relationship with that site.
The Witcher 3 got an 8 in Edge and that is one of my favorite games of all time. To me that game captivated me like no game done since Ocarina of Time in 98- I can use my brain and internalize what the game means to me. But I can while having my own opinion about the games world building, content, voice acting, graphics, art direction, channeling of slavic mythology and culture and the moment to moment gameplay, still understand that not everyone was able to get over the quirks of combat, or feeling the world is too big, or not being that into the plot.
To handwave people off with criticism along these lines as having a "cultural disconnect" (as a poster accuses Edge of doing in the case of Persona 5) is weak and timid as fuck. You can word it however you like, but in the end, peoples personal enjoyment and abillity or inabillity to get over things and elements is completely inconsequential with this bullshit belief system of "you just don't get the greatness of this game because you're compromised in some way". fuck. that. shit.
I love Edge because I find their reviewers interesting. I often disagree with them- Like I do with every other review outlet. I'm my own person and I don't need other sites, scores or metacritic or popular opinion, to tell me, what I enjoy and why I have to enjoy or not enjoy something. When I read Edge I come away with an understanding of their reasonings for liking and not liking a game.
You should read their pieces on Final Fantasy XII - A game they scored 9/10 and talked up as being brave, bold and a new direction. This was words and a score that was higher than a lot of other places.
Edge has always had an alternative outlook. And the outrage and death threats levelled at them throughout the years have also always been par for the cause going back to their original Doom review which they gave 7/10.
There is value in Edge because they look at things through a different lens sometimes. They cause upsets because people care about their opinions. I don't think it's possible to avoid that, but I sincerely wish that more people would focus on the writing and not on the score. The score doesn't tell you anything. The score is not relevant for different people- depending on their exposure and know-how, their meaning cannot be equivalent or equal.
Do yourself a favor and go back and see all the Edge threads- The search shows up threads going back to 2004; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=25615540&pp=50 < You see the patterns again and again. I wonder if there will ever be a time on these forums where people have more measured responses or if the review discussions are bound to stay like this- tribal, defeatist and toxic circle jerks focusing on numbers over meaning and understanding.
It's of course bullshit. And like always the outrage is caused by people who clearly don't read the magazine regularly or understand its history or review policy. "Eight" in Edge is the mark of excellence. It's awarded to exceptional games. "Five" is the mark of average- Not good, not bad. Edge scores towards the mean, unlike most online outlets where a decent game is a 7/10, which is stupid.
A poster in this thread argues that 8 in Edge for Persona is problematic because it will hurt the MC score and says that it is unjustified because Persona is underrated and deserves the exposure. I don't disagree that Persona deserves exposure, but it is not the reviews purpose to politicize a games renown and exposure. All a review is, is a feature with the spice of a personal and biased opinion.
Still to this day, many people don't understand even key basics about the purpose of a review. Some people seem to think that you're supposed to find reviewers and outlets who align with your own tastes and then take their words as gospel on what is good or bad. This is ignorant and idiotic thinking.
You're not supposed to base or internalize your own opinions due to the review.
You can get the most out of reviews you disagree with fundamentally. The purpose of the review is to inform you, and make you make up YOUR mind about if you would like to play it. Just because the biased reviewer doesn't like something or think something is not great, doesn't mean others will not. But people lose side of that when they become intellectually dishonest and/or lazy and only focus on the score.
A review score cannot mean the same thing for different players. Fans, newcomers, JRPG traditionalists, haters- People are going to respond differently to a score depending on their relationship, knowledge and exposure to the style, franchise, type or format being reviewed.
So this idea that any score can ever be as "objective as possible" or as "unbiased as possible" is a crock of shit. There is no reviewer or outlet who is unbiased. Every person is unique and is going to have their own intricate opinions, quirks, preferences and knee jerks. For the love of god, stop deducing opinions of others to a bunch of decimals. It's fucking infruiatingly. Step away from Metacritic- Some people here have a dangerous and toxic relationship with that site.
The Witcher 3 got an 8 in Edge and that is one of my favorite games of all time. To me that game captivated me like no game done since Ocarina of Time in 98- I can use my brain and internalize what the game means to me. But I can while having my own opinion about the games world building, content, voice acting, graphics, art direction, channeling of slavic mythology and culture and the moment to moment gameplay, still understand that not everyone was able to get over the quirks of combat, or feeling the world is too big, or not being that into the plot.
To handwave people off with criticism along these lines as having a "cultural disconnect" (as a poster accuses Edge of doing in the case of Persona 5) is weak and timid as fuck. You can word it however you like, but in the end, peoples personal enjoyment and abillity or inabillity to get over things and elements is completely inconsequential with this bullshit belief system of "you just don't get the greatness of this game because you're compromised in some way". fuck. that. shit.
I love Edge because I find their reviewers interesting. I often disagree with them- Like I do with every other review outlet. I'm my own person and I don't need other sites, scores or metacritic or popular opinion, to tell me, what I enjoy and why I have to enjoy or not enjoy something. When I read Edge I come away with an understanding of their reasonings for liking and not liking a game.
You should read their pieces on Final Fantasy XII - A game they scored 9/10 and talked up as being brave, bold and a new direction. This was words and a score that was higher than a lot of other places.
Edge has always had an alternative outlook. And the outrage and death threats levelled at them throughout the years have also always been par for the cause going back to their original Doom review which they gave 7/10.
There is value in Edge because they look at things through a different lens sometimes. They cause upsets because people care about their opinions. I don't think it's possible to avoid that, but I sincerely wish that more people would focus on the writing and not on the score. The score doesn't tell you anything. The score is not relevant for different people- depending on their exposure and know-how, their meaning cannot be equivalent or equal.
Do yourself a favor and go back and see all the Edge threads- The search shows up threads going back to 2004; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=25615540&pp=50 < You see the patterns again and again. I wonder if there will ever be a time on these forums where people have more measured responses or if the review discussions are bound to stay like this- tribal, defeatist and toxic circle jerks focusing on numbers over meaning and understanding.
Botw got a 7,6 and 6 and it's still 97. Don't lose hope.
Perhaps, I don't believe it though, we'll see. It will surely get a few 10/10s but most likely a lot of 9/10s that will drag it down, I estimate something >90 and <95 on MC.
Yes, and it got 60 100-Scores. I don't think P5 will get that many.
Edge scored P4G a 9.
To be fair, it would most likely sit at 93 even if edge would have given it an 8.
By the way: What did Famitsu give P5? I think it was 39/40?
It's not bait, it's obvious sarcasm, bud.
Yes, it was a 39.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Honestly, I don't see people being outraged about this score, at least nowhere near as many people that complain about outrages. Pretty funny.
names2hard4you
Member
We live in a time where an 8 is a bad score. Oh man.
A lot of people in here criticizing a review score for a game they haven't played yet.....
This month's scores are much more in line with what we're used to Edge giving out. And they make Zelda, Horizon, Nioh and Resident Evil look that much better.
An Edge 8 no less.
This month's scores are much more in line with what we're used to Edge giving out. And they make Zelda, Horizon, Nioh and Resident Evil look that much better.
An Edge 8 no less.
Hype for this game is too much. Some people expected a 10 or a 9, so a 8 is quite dissappinting to them.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Kind of interesting that they reviewed P5 before Mass Effect: Andromeda, despite the release date difference (would have thought P5 review would be in the next publication whereas ME:A would be in this one?) Still, solid scores for Nier and P5.
paragonpro
Banned
They liked a game the same as other games....? Dont see s problem here
VanCityGamer
Member
I agree with you. That said, 80 is not the same as 89. The difference between 80 and (basically) 90 is the difference between a great game and an amazing game quite often.
I'm 100 hours into persona 5 and I love the game for what it is but I could see myself giving it an 8 simply because I value originality and gameplay design more than writing and narrative. At the core it's more or less a reskin of P4. I don't mean that as a bad thing since that's what people want of Persona, but it does limit the game. If the only thing you care about is that persona experience then it's probably a 9-10 so there's no need to worry.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Every game will feel underwhelming if compared to Zelda.
8 is a good score. It's just not 10. 😇
I liked your quote fwiw and thought it would lead to some discussion about it but it's just more score whining instead.
Audioboxer
Member
Someone said Edge gave TW3 an 8 and it's my game of the generation so far. Nier is also damn good, and it's an 8. So Persona 5 with an 8 is like... What's the problem?