Wait, what? What?!?
*Rushes off to find other thread*
This was always quite clearly the reason for the 3D Land / World games. 3D manipulation of Mario is just too high a barrier of entry for most people. Sad but true.
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Eurogamer Miyamoto interview: Future of 3D Mario (Galaxy)
- Thread starter James Scott
- Start date
Wait, what? What?!?
*Rushes off to find other thread*
This was always quite clearly the reason for the 3D Land / World games. 3D manipulation of Mario is just too high a barrier of entry for most people. Sad but true.
Oh, I didn't know that NSMBWiiU sold less than 3D World...
Supermanisdead
Member
there's a lot of reasons. mostly multiplayer and familiarity.
FloweryMarston
Member
lmao the interview shows a future where they will probably make 3d mario games in the style of galaxy and past games, and yet people are crying over nothing. It's like people only read the part outside of context that could eventually lead them to being offended at nintendo.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'd have to replay it but it should be manageable. A friend of mine did 100% the game a couple years ago and he was only ever a PC player.
Sony don't make successful platformers where camera and precision is key.
Also, it's not just expanded audience, it's new audience. My nephew is starting to like games, but he struggles with 3D cameras, but does alright in games with fixed cameras. Does that mean he should not play games?
Remember, you were part of an "expanded" audience once. Shutting out the expanded and building audience is a way to make sure your company dies.
I see no reason why we can't have both. Nintendo just seems to be cranking out way too many 2d platformers this generation.
Thankfully, Miyamoto essentially said that there's room for both.
Not specifically 3D Mario but my mother played (and still plays) games, enjoyed the NES/SNES Marios A LOT but never played the 3D ones, she would find those too hard to control.
She even bought the GBA ports.
Fair point, and I do actually remember having slight difficultly with them myself. But even most players can catch one of them without too much trouble. These two couldn't. The mere idea that they were moving in a 3D Space and that they could use momentum to cut the rabbits off never occurred to them at all.
I also remember even further back trying out Super Mario 64 for the first time. That was quite the experience, having never really played a 3D game like that before. Camera control was pretty much a foreign concept to me. I imagine that's how people who don't regularly play video games feel when they pick up a 3D Mario game, or quite possibly even something like Minecraft.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Starfox looks like shit so it's no wonder it's 60fps on TV and gamepad.
Nintendo games often look amazing but let's not act like much more powerful hardware wouldnt be a good thing, Miyamoto.
Nintendo games often look amazing but let's not act like much more powerful hardware wouldnt be a good thing, Miyamoto.
Spieler Eins
Member
NSMBU sold 25 million copies less than its predecessor.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
there's opportunity for both options is a great thing to say on paper until you look at the last quite-a-few mario game releases. proof is in the pudding
exactly. the casual audience by it's definition is nearly impossible to grab in a dedicated sense. call of duty did it but even then it will over stay it's welcome. chasing them is an endless endeavor versus building a solid dedicated base
much easier than it was for me a child actually. just 100% it on wii u vc quite recently
But theyr must have been plenty of six year olds whose first console was n64. And i would think the majority handled the game fine.
If were gonna worry that people who grew up on 2d mario cant play the 3d games, and brand new gamers cant play 3d games, were gonna convince ourselves that the 11-12m ceiling for 3d mario doesnt exist. We know it exists! 12 m is not a bad days work nintendo!
In any case, the point is moot. 3d land wound up right around sm64 and smg in sales. Theres nowhere else to go to make it more accessible
He isn't acting like that at all? In fact, he's saying that powerful hardware is a good thing...
You mean the last 2. One which has sold ~11 million and the other that has sold 3 million on a dead console and are critically acclaimed?
Solid SOAP
Member
I hope that when they say they want a new Galaxy game, they're merely talking about making another "open" 3D Mario title. What I mean is that while Galaxy was linear in its level design, 3D Land/World were a literal series of levels. Galaxy was kind of an in between point where the levels were linear but had side attractions and no timer. I'd like to see something like 64 or Sunshine again.
To be fair, especially on the N64, 3D games were brutal when it came to motion sickness and the like. Mario 64 and Goldeneye, no?
If they were to try and reintroduce 3D Mario, they would have to think very carefully on how best to reintroduce players who gave up so many years ago because of it. Do they even want Mario anymore?
I do miss it though
If they were to try and reintroduce 3D Mario, they would have to think very carefully on how best to reintroduce players who gave up so many years ago because of it. Do they even want Mario anymore?
I do miss it though
Flame Lord
Member
If they do buy one (which I doubt), I doubt it would be a Nintendo console.
Supermanisdead
Member
squirrel suit was too complicated for mom
casual gamers exist still. they're buying ps4s and playing destiny and fifa
FunkyMunkey
Banned
yes but the six year olds nowadays are coming from ultra-simple mobile games (not all are of course), so better make the entire game easier rather than force adaptation
oh you're talking sales? also that "dead" console should remind you what happens when you abandon your dedicated base
for me sure, but the children in my family handle the newer marios magnitudes easier than the full 3d ones (i've helped them play both). anecdotal of course but i believe stating the newer games are much easier than the older 3d-controlled ones is highly objective
oh they're not at all, just much easier
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup, exactly my point. People asking for "more difficult games" are thinking in terms of the skills they've gotten much better at
Broken Hope
Member
He should do what the rest of us did, keep trying until he gets better, it's a good life lesson. No need to dumb shit down.
And no I wasn't once part of the expanded audience, I'm in my 30's, I've been gaming for pretty much the entire time gaming has existed.
No, I'm talking about the fact that they are critically acclaimed. I was using sales as an indicator of success, sure, but let's not act like they're bad games.
outunderthestars
Banned
He says that, but the first party output doesn't reflect it.
KuroPyonyo
Banned
I did read the whole thing.
Why should I care about some players? I want a product thats good for me, not for anybody else. "opportunity for both options" with a Nintendo that is allergic to difficulty options simply means one last level/world which is worthwhile to play and I'm sorry, I did that once in Galaxy 2, wasting my time through a boring game only to get to that last stretch with worthwhile gameplay, and im not gonna do that again.
Almost as if games take time to be developed...
Because making a game that caters to everyone is more beneficial, not just for Nintendo, not just for the casual audience, but for everyone.
Corronchilejano
Member
It is entirely possible the problem is you being extremely ahead of the curve and not the game. I found Galaxy 2 to be easy, but in NO way boring.
mario_O
Member
Wut? lol
RoadHazard
Gold Member
This belief that people somehow get confused and motion sick by full 3D cameras is still a thing with Nintendo? Fuck, we're not all little children who have never played a 3D game before. But maybe Nintendo's target audience is.
I want a new Galaxy-type Mario, dammit.
I want a new Galaxy-type Mario, dammit.
NeonZ
Member
3d World itself was heavily influenced by the kind of thought that he mentions in that interview though. It really wasn't focused on the audience that enjoyed previous 3d Mario games, but rather attempting in many ways to make the 3d games more like the 2d NSMB series. That's why it had a pretty negative reception from the core fanbase in various forums during its initial reveal.
Besides, by June, 2015, it was 4.84 million units vs 4.30 million units.
Also, 3d Land > NSMB2 in sales (10.10 million units vs 9.30 million units), although this is the same situation as described above.
You're not, no. As are many people on GAF. However, you're not the only people who play video games.
And he basically said that a Galaxy sequel may be on the cards.
pinkurocket
Member
"Miyamoto also stated that he hopes that Splatoon will help players come to terms with a 3D camera for the next 3D Mario"
Gyro Mario incoming.
Gyro Mario incoming.
Interceptor
Banned
Just look at the people who prefer last gen controls in Splatoon and you see why some have difficulties adapting to an immersive 3D environment that´s not hold back by aim assists or on rail design.
TheDinoman
Member
I get the feeling a lot of of what Miyamoto is saying here is influenced by the sales of Mario games.
Because, let's face it, with a few exceptions (like 3D Land > NSMB2 as NeonZ mentioned), 2D Mario games have a history of outselling 3D Mario games. Most 2D titles tend to sell around 20 to even 30 million, while the 3D games are usually 5-10 or 11 million. 2D Mario games just seem to resonate more with the general market, it looks like.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I wish Koizumi would get to do something different than Mario so he can go all out with the story .
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The 2d Mario games were also bundled with the Wii/Wii U.
Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were not only never bundled but they were sold at full price for like 5 years.
Spieler Eins
Member
B-but a decade ago we sold that many NSMB copies more!
/meanwhile, all the over-casualized low-effort flagships crashing on WiiU and taking the console down harder than the Titanic.
entremet
Member
It's much easier to develop 2d games.
This makes no sense it was the casualized stuff that sold millions of Wii and DSes.
The Wii U and 3DS are have been much more "hardcore".
balladofwindfishes
Member
Brawl is the best selling fighting game, ever.
I can't even think off hand of a casual Wii U game, except Nintendo Land. Which actually isn't even that casual since its big appeal is to big time Nintendo fans...
Difference is, they're accessible while being hardcore.
That's Nintendo games in a nutshell at the moment. Easy to get into, difficult to master. Even Yoshi's Woolly World can be an absolute beast at times. That 4-S ;;
DownGrader
Member
These reactions from "hardcore" gamers, though...
Guys. I really don't want to call anyone entitled or whiny, but you are, like, giving all possible reasons to do so. Please realize that:
Guys. I really don't want to call anyone entitled or whiny, but you are, like, giving all possible reasons to do so. Please realize that:
- there are people who play video games but not video game enthusiasts
- some people really did and do struggle with 3D movement and camera control
- Nintendo don't want to create yet another frustrating Mario experience like Super Mario Sunshine which sales and reception hit them so hard they had to go back to the drawing board
- they did say they are considering to make separate games for separate types of players
NeonZ
Member
It just shows a lack of foresight though. It's very likely that the explosion of those 2d games only happened due to the Wii's and DS' expanded audiences - and those were there for other reasons and happened to pick up those games too, they didn't jump for those games themselves.
In both the Wii U and 3ds, the 2d Mario games don't seem to be doing any better than past 3d games.
Notor!ousG
Member
Every year Miyamoto gets dumber and dumber.
You can really tell he's getting old and just doesn't have feeling with gamers anymore.
2015, and he thinks people have trouble with 3d camera movement.
Pray to all the Gods that he won't become the new CEO
You can really tell he's getting old and just doesn't have feeling with gamers anymore.
2015, and he thinks people have trouble with 3d camera movement.
Pray to all the Gods that he won't become the new CEO
Littlefang
Member
I mean I'd understand where he's coming from if we were talking about the Wii. But I mean the Wii U doesn't have that same universal appeal, so I don't really get why Nintendo is still chasing a market that it doesn't have. When the audience that buys your console wants Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, etc. then why not keep providing games that do have that option for difficulty and online support?
By making games that have this "universal appeal" it just seems like they're alienating the fan base that they already have. Like I'm not complaining about not getting a "proper" 3D Mario because I think that's their choice if they want to make that or not. It just seems really silly to me that they talk about dumbing down games for an audience that mostly isn't there.
By making games that have this "universal appeal" it just seems like they're alienating the fan base that they already have. Like I'm not complaining about not getting a "proper" 3D Mario because I think that's their choice if they want to make that or not. It just seems really silly to me that they talk about dumbing down games for an audience that mostly isn't there.
DownGrader
Member
He's making games which can be played by everyone, not just "gamers."
melee sold 7 million on a 20 million install base
brawl sold 10 million on a 100 million install base
i have a hard time believing that extra 3 million was because sakurai dumbed down the game
mario sunshine outsold mario 3d world and has a 92 on metacritic
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Right, but the people Miyamoto is talking about don't play on consoles at all anymore. They have their smartphones now, and that's all they need. Ergo, the Wii U's sales after what the Wii did. Nintendo doesn't seem to get that their "new, confused gamer" audience isn't buying consoles anymore. The "hardcore", the people buying PS4s, XBOs and gaming PCs, sure know how to control a character in 3D space.