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[Servbot24]

“Wii U’s definitely good enough in terms of hardware performance, it is more the workload of the team. If you look at Star Fox Zero, the TV and GamePad are both rendered in 60 frames, so in total that’s 120 frames. It’s really just a matter of the CPU speed at this point.”

Is this the explanation for why it looks so bad? Because if so, it will be my go to exhibit for frames vs shinies discussion.

 

[metalslimer]

To be honest I don't really see the diifcult drop people seem to be talking about. I went back and played sunshine and the vast majority of the shine sprites were as easy as most of the recent Mario levels.

Also yeah it does seem like the useless gamepad killed the graphics in Star Fox which makes more sense because most of Nintendo's wiiu games have been beautiful

 

[ViewtifulJC]

LMAO'd at that Star Fox comment

the Gamepad was a mistake

 

[JoeM86]

Nintendo and the rest of this industry needs to chill out with making games as simple as possible. Kids aren't as dumb as they think they are. Give them a challenge, they can rise to the occasion. Minecraft is one of the most popular games around with kids and they've managed to learn the ins and outs of that game despite the complexity and lack of hand-holding. Or hell, go back to the NES days when Nintendo ruled the world with kids, most of the games they released were difficult as fuck.

Also, give me Galaxy 3 cause I really want to play another Galaxy.

Nintendo games nowadays are simple on the outside, but so complex on the inside. Don't let the outwards fool you. Nintendo games are complex and hard these days.

 

[KuroPyonyo]

These reactions from "hardcore" gamers, though...

Guys. I really don't want to call anyone entitled or whiny, but you are, like, giving all possible reasons to do so. Please realize that:

• there are people who play video games but not video game enthusiasts
• some people really did and do struggle with 3D movement and camera control
• Nintendo don't want to create yet another frustrating Mario experience like Super Mario Sunshine which sales and reception hit them so hard they had to go back to the drawing board
• they did say they are considering to make separate games for separate types of players

Because making a game that caters to everyone is more beneficial, not just for Nintendo, not just for the casual audience, but for everyone.

I guess I can address both of you at once:
Customers simply demand a product that is most appealing to them. I know exactly what I want and I fail to understand why I should accept deficiencies for "catering to everyone". Where is my personal gain here?
If you want my money you need to deliver and according to Zhuge I am 15 to 20 times a more worthwhile customer to have then your average american.

I can understand that it's whiny and anoying if every single thread would be spammed with such remarks, but voicing your opinion once is totaly fine. (For example I posted in one Metroid FF thread that the game is crap etc. etc. but I will not go into any future thread to say the same thing again).

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Please just no Galaxy 3. Not now. Don't get me wrong, I loved SMG2 and it's definitely one of my favourites. It's just no longer as fresh or exciting an idea, give it more time to relax. 64 Style definitely makes sense, 2016 just marking 20 years and we've had plenty different styles since. I'll also of course take another new style too, just anything but Galaxy or SM3D, they've had their time and I've been happy with them all.

 

[Supermanisdead]

yes, you guys are right, i'm sorry. amiibos are a success. im glad cheap plastic toys are keeping nintendo afloat because 190k sales for the wii u in 2014 is not something that any hardware company can survive on.

 

[JoeM86]

To be honest I don't really see the diifcult drop people seem to be talking about. I went back and played sunshine and the vast majority of the shine sprites were as easy as most of the recent Mario levels.

Many haven't played in years and don't realise their skills have improved in time, so they blame the later games.

For example. I used to think Super Mario Land was so hard when I was younger, and that made me avoid replaying it.

I replayed it on Thursday for the first time in about 17 years, finished it 100% in 40 minutes with only one life lost.

yes, you guys are right, i'm sorry. amiibos are a success. im glad cheap plastic toys are keeping nintendo afloat because 190k sales for the wii u in 2014 is not something that any hardware company can survive on.

I'm sorry. Do you actually believe Nintendo only sold 190,000 Wii U units last year?

 

[RagnarokX]

To be honest I don't really see the diifcult drop people seem to be talking about. I went back and played sunshine and the vast majority of the shine sprites were as easy as most of the recent Mario levels.

Yeah. I think when Miyamoto mentions difficulty he's talking about difficulty in presenting 3D space. In Sunshine you had to fight with its awful camera. In games since then they've improved level design and the camera to alleviate those issues. In terms of challenge, if anything the games have gotten overall harder over time.

 

[metalslimer]

Many haven't played in years and don't realise their skills have improved in time, so they blame the game.

For example. I used to think Super Mario Land was so hard when I was younger, and that made me avoid replaying it.

I replayed it on Thursday for the first time in about 17 years, finished it 100% in 40 minutes with only one life lost.

Right, 64 was harder but I think a lot of that came down to the controls and camera rather than platforming skills

 

[Supermanisdead]

I'm sorry. Do you actually believe Nintendo only sold 190,000 Wii U units last year?

in america? yes.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Yet there is a never-ending discourse about people crying for ,,real 3D Mario'' (I'm not one of them, I just think 3DW was a bad 3D Mario) and its sales are still behind Sunshine. Which is why relatively, this is not good. 4,3 mil - 4,8 mil (3DW-NSMBU) is good for certainly not very expensive titles, however, in relation to the rest of the series and considering that their biggest franchise stopped moving units of the WiiU, these are far from favorable results.
If there's relatively decent software sales to notice on WiiU, it's Splatoon and maaaybe Mario Kart not crumbling as hard as the mainline.

Only because of the Wii U itself. How is this hard for you to understand that even though the console itself didn't sell that well that software sales are still good. Also Lol 3D World being a bad game. Just goes to show how little credibility you have when it comes to talking about Nintendo.

 

[JoeM86]

in america? yes.

Even when you put it to America, you're absolutely wrong.

 

[DownGrader]

yes, you guys are right, i'm sorry. amiibos are a success. im glad cheap plastic toys are keeping nintendo afloat because 190k sales for the wii u in 2014 is not something that any hardware company can survive on.

What? 190k for year? If you are going to pull the numbers out of your ass, make it at least look somewhat believable next time. Also, you again forgot the 3DS, although I'm sure you are not even trying to remember.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Please just no Galaxy 3. Not now. Don't get me wrong, I loved SMG2 and it's definitely one of my favourites. It's just no longer as fresh or exciting an idea, give it more time to relax.

1) it was fucking FIVE years ago

2) fuck fresh, quality is quality

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

The borders of Donkey Kong Country are always open to you Mario refugees looking for a better life 😍

 

[Sai-kun]

Nintendo records surprising profit and strong sales in Q1 2015

this is not as good of a defense as you think :/

 

[Shion]

In an age where games like GTA, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls and Minecraft sell like crazy…Miyamoto thinks that people can't handle 3D environments and dual-analog controls.

Nintendo and Miyamoto are so out of touch it hurts.

All the wrong noises I'd want to hear from Miyamoto going forward. Its got to the point now where I can't wait for him to retire and just let the new talent take over completely without him as a roadblock.

Amen to that.

 

[JoeM86]

In an age where games like GTA, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls and Minecraft sell like crazy…Miyamoto thinks that people can't handle 3D environments and dual-analog controls.

Nintendo and Miyamoto are so out of touch it hurts.

You do realise that's not what he said and that Miyamoto is correct in what he said, right?

 

[Scum]

Joe. Please. Why? Go bother yourself with something worthwhile, mate.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

this is not as good of a defense as you think :/

It's crazy that a toy company would make money making toys

 

[FunkyDealer]

I really want to see a 3D mario a'la 64/Galaxy on Wii U that pushes the system.

3D World had to accommodate up to four players, but a refined version of that engine with an art-direction closer to Galaxy... WANT.

 

[Gsnap]

Kinda funny that people are saying people don't have a problem with the 3rd dimension anymore when

1) that's not true, just hand a 3d game off to someone new. And

2) you can't compare a 3d platformer to the majority of 3d games that people play these days. How many big 3d sellers these days require precise movement of a character over a variety of pitfalls and hazards? Most are on flat or safe surfaces. Many don't even have jumping at all. Most that do have "platforming" are automatic.

You can't look at the sales of gta or the witcher or uncharted or whatever else and say everyone can handle 3d platformers now.

 

[E-phonk]

Add me to the team of people wanting (and actually expecting) something new for the next 3D mario.

 

[fhqwhgads]

Miyamoto threads should have a tally for all the "Miyamoto is out of touch" and "Miyamoto should retire" posts.

 

[MrGoomba]

In galaxy games we didn't need to change the camera most of the time, and that was fine to me. But also we didn't have a second analog on wii so I think they were forced to make the game that way.

Maybe nintendo can add the ability to change the camera for the hardcore gamers.. but also, make it intuitive enough like in galaxy games where you don't really need to.

 

[Servbot24]

Nintendo records surprising profit and strong sales in Q1 2015

This post is so depressing. :/

Splatoon selling well is nice though.

 

[TheSlySoul]

So the lack of 3D Mario is becuase 2D sells better?
Guess we are getting Mario Maker 2 then. Sorry Galaxy 3 dreamers.

 

[JoeM86]

So the lack of 3D Mario is becuase 2D sells better?
Guess we are getting Mario Maker 2 then. Sorry Galaxy 3 dreamers.

Lack of 3D Mario is because we got one just over a year and a half ago.

 

[cloudstrife]

No concrete plans for a 3D open world Mario on NX?

Fuck. Looks like WiiU is my last Nintendo console in the forseeable future.

 

[Kriken]

I do find it amusing how the "hardcore gamers" think they are representative of difficulty for the average gamer

 

[TheSlySoul]

Lack of 3D Mario is because we got one just over a year and a half ago.

Well lacking to the 3D number. We got NSMB U, Luigi U, and NSMB2 recently.

 

[Az987]

I wish we'd get a SMG collection with new, non Wii remote controls and HD graphics. I've never been all that into the SMG games because of the controls.

They could make it in between other games since it wouldn't take as long as a brand new game.

 

[JoeM86]

Well lacking to the 3D number. We got NSMB U, Luigi U, and NSMB2 recently.

I agree the NSMB2 and NSMBU releases were way too close, but Luigi U was made as DLC. Sure, it was packaged separately as well, but it's DLC (just as the GTA IV DLC that also was sold separately is DLC).

No concrete plans for a 3D open world Mario on NX?

Fuck. Looks like WiiU is my last Nintendo console in the forseeable future.

You're jumping to conclusions. For one, they've already said they're working on the next 3D Mario.

 

[Devil]

The fact that he thinks, in 2015, that players still haven't come to terms with a 3D camera is kind of mind boggling to me.

It's true though for the mass market apart from the AAA mainstream crowd which will not convert to Nintendo anyway. People who don't game a lot but love 2D platformers like Mario are out there and many of them get frustrated quickly when playing the 3D games.

 

[jonjonaug]

>On the other hand, me and [Yoshiaki] Koizumi-san, director of Galaxy, are always looking to challenge Galaxy and do another 3D action title.

Please just let Koizumi direct/write games again instead of just working as a producer. I miss him.

 

[Mael]

Are people still surprised that Nintendo is unhappy with the state of 3D Mario?
Seriously for every single time they made another 3D Mario they tried to make it more accessible for people who played 2D Mario.
There's load of interview saying that for Sunshine, Galaxy (the game with ads in Japan explaining that really 3D Mario is like 2D Mario), Galaxy 2 (the game that came with a Dvd to explain how to play like you're 2yo), Mario 3D Land the game that pretty much dropped most of 3D Mario to take 2D Mario's gameplay and make it 3D as well as Mario 3D World which doubled it down on it.
Seriously guys stop, acting all surprised it's been more than a decade that they're trying to make 3D Mario as popular as 2D Mario and failing.
I can hear the hardcore gamers whining over how the NSMB games are shit and they should continue Galaxy games when the former actually is far more fun for and sells better to boot (the only time that didn't happen was when we got numbers for NSMB2 and 3D Land, basically the worst NSMB game and a game people on gaf took years to voice anything but contempt for it).
Ever tried to have someone play NSMB games and 3D Mario games?
Invariably the result is the same for every single Mario game, they drop the boring slow ass 3D Mario and pick up the more accessible (and now multiplayer) 3D one.
The last is even more of a disaster in that regard, we all had more fun trying to play DKCTF 2 players than explaining how Mario 3D World works.

Prediction : the next 3D Mario will try to be more like 2D Mario and it will again fail to succeed.

 

[Theanine3D]

I wish they'd just dedicate the 2D Mario series for those who complain about 3D being too hard, and leave the 3D series alone.

No sense in ruining the 3D series and turning into something else entirely if the complainers already have the 2D games to play anyway.

They can absolutely continue to satisfy both audiences. Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

[SinCityAssassin]

For the people who keep guffawing at njntendo's concern about camera difficulty, you are not the only audience Nintendo wants to cater to, Christ.

My sister used to play Mario 2 all the time when I was young but she doesn't want to play 3D Mario games for this exact reason.

 

[Fishlake]

I'm also going to throw this out there but does anyone else think that the current "standard" game pad has too many inputs.

It is overwhelming to new players and I know people who just give up trying to use the darn thing. If consoles intend on having a large audience they will need to cut down on so many inputs. Many of us grew up with just simple abxy dpad controls so we got to introduce each button over time. The new gamers that are interested in joining us have to learn them all at once. I think unless it becomes easier for new people to enter consoles we will only continue to see consoles shrink.

This is one thing smart phones and the wii have done very well by making the entry point much lower and more natural to control. I don't think it is a coincidence the Wii and smartphones were picked up for gaming. Consoles currently are uninviting with this game pad controller.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

1) it was fucking FIVE years ago

2) fuck fresh, quality is quality

1) So? Big 3D Mario games don't come every 2 years or anything. Galaxy series accounts for 2 of the last 3 grand Mario titles. Get back to me when you go 20 years without a Galaxy game.

2) Mario is Quality. They can do something amazing WITHOUT retreading the same ground, they've done it with Mario plenty of times.

 

[BigDug13]

I think as long as the Mario game series has multiplayer, it will require fixed camera perspectives so that all players can reorient their controls in the 8 direction digital control scheme.

If they go back to single player or if they make the multiplayer online only where each player has their own control over the camera for their individual character only, then being more like Mario 64 or Galaxy will be fine. But as long as 2 or more players are controlling characters on the same screen, the Super Mario 3D Land/World style system has to be what's used.

 

[RagnarokX]

I wish they'd just dedicate the 2D Mario series for those who complain about 3D being too hard, and leave the 3D series alone.

No sense in ruining the 3D series and turning into something else entirely if the complainers already have the 2D games to play anyway.

They can absolutely continue to satisfy both audiences. Why does it have to be one or the other?

But they haven't made the 3D games less hard. They've made them easier to understand, and in doing so increased the difficulty of the platforming.

I think when Miyamoto is talking about "too difficult" he's talking about how obtuse the mission structure of 64 could be to some people. The objectives in Mario 64 are super easy in terms of challenge, but interpreting the clues to figure out what to do, while also very easy, were an unnecessary barrier to entry. Having straightforward goals allows them to do more with the player because they know the player isn't getting lost.

And while having those straightforward goals, they also catered to fans of adventure-oriented goals by having sub-goals in the form of green stars and stamps hidden throughout the levels requiring many different adventure-style objectives to find them. The stars are just as required to beat the game as the stars in Mario 64. The only major difference between them is that the stars in 3D World don't force you to replay from the start of the level every time you collect one.

For example, take this level: World 3-3: Shifty Boo Mansion

If the level title screen displayed this:

and every time you collected a star/stamp you were booted back to the world map you'd have something very similar to Mario 64.

 

[lwilliams3]

In an age where games like GTA, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls and Minecraft sell like crazy…Miyamoto thinks that people can't handle 3D environments and dual-analog controls.

Nintendo and Miyamoto are so out of touch it hurts.



Amen to that.

I have seen several posts like this, but it fails to notice that Miyamoto is talking about just Mario, which is a platformer. Platformers rely on precise and well-aimed jumping. Games like GTA, Zelda, xenoblade, etc doesn't have to rely as much on those things, so it's much less of a problem.

 

[ZhugeEX]

according to Zhuge I am 15 to 20 times a more worthwhile customer to have then your average american.

I can confirm what Kuro said is true

 

[NeonZ]

The last is even more of a disaster in that regard, we all had more fun trying to play DKCTF 2 players than explaining how Mario 3D World works.

Prediction : the next 3D Mario will try to be more like 2D Mario and it will again fail to succeed.

You shouldn't mention Tropical Freeze while trying to use sales as something that strengthens your point. Besides, NSMBU has barely sold more than 3d World too - and NSMBU was a bundled title, replacing Nintendo Land. So, it's not really an illusion. The audience that would carry those 2d titles forward just isn't there anymore.

I think as long as the Mario game series has multiplayer, it will require fixed camera perspectives so that all players can reorient their controls in the 8 direction digital control scheme.

If they go back to single player or if they make the multiplayer online only where each player has their own control over the camera for their individual character only, then being more like Mario 64 or Galaxy will be fine. But as long as 2 or more players are controlling characters on the same screen, the Super Mario 3D Land/World style system has to be what's used.

They could use the GamePad screen for 2 player co-op without split screen at least.

 

[TI82]

Miyamoto please, leave the Wii U behind. Work on new hardware with some power.

 

[JoeM86]

Miyamoto please, leave the Wii U behind. Work on new hardware with some power.

They are...

 

[MrSaturn99]

For example, take this level: World 3-3: Shifty Boo Mansion

If the level title screen displayed this:

and every time you collected a star/stamp you were booted back to the world map you'd have something very similar to Mario 64.

Unless this was like Sunshine/Galaxy where the level design/objectives change substantially for every star, that wouldn't be half as interesting at those. As 3D World's level design currently stands, it'd be far more repetitive and pointless.

(Unless that's that your point. You've brought this up before and I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This post is so depressing. :/

Splatoon selling well is nice though.

Them having extra income from something besides games means they can take more risks with games because they don't rely on it as their primary income.

Unless this was like Sunshine/Galaxy where the level design/objectives change substantially for every star, that wouldn't be half as interesting at those. As 3D World's level design currently stands, it'd be far more repetitive and pointless.

(Unless that's that your point. You've brought this up before and I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.)

Later in the game certain stages are remixed to have a different layout. That jungle level with the raft and Piranha Plants, for example. Later in the game is a night version that's a little different.