I remember some people claiming Epic Mickey made them sick. Not my case, but I can see where they're coming from since the camera controls are so awful.
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Eurogamer Miyamoto interview: Future of 3D Mario (Galaxy)
- Thread starter James Scott
- Start date
I remember some people claiming Epic Mickey made them sick. Not my case, but I can see where they're coming from since the camera controls are so awful.
Not the camera. 2d Mario are the easiest games to pick and play.
They were repetitive and pointless in 64, too. My point here is that the goals still exist, just in a more streamlined fashion.
Galaxy doesn't really follow the 64 formula. Despite stars sharing a galaxy, for the most part each mission is a completely separate level just like 3D World. 3D World just drops the charade in favor of having each level be completely independent from each other.
It seems like a little thing but camera control and movement in 3D is very important and it's always good to think how to improve them. It's that thinking process that probably helped in Metroid Prime's camera and how it feels so perfectly natural that you hardly ever notice its there.
Dr. Buni
Member
Can't wait to know more about the next 3D Mario. 3D World was fun, but not really that memorable to me. You know, I still dream with a "Mario Universe" with levels re-imagined from older 2D and 3D games.
But that goes entirely against the point of having the NX as a console and handheld.
I am not sure if you were serious, but yes we should. SPM is the best Paper Mario
Corronchilejano
Member
A lot of people here sound frighteningly out of touch with the interview. Maybe because they haven't read it?
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Well let's not kid ourselves, the man is 62 years old and carries a bit of hubris about his insular philosophy. However, there is some balance because there is now a line of younger personnel at EAD who have managerial pull. I'm guessing there is usually a bit of give and take - at least the last 5 years or so. ( I hope)
I don't think merging 2D NSMB ideas into 3D Mario will broaden the appeal of 3D Mario games.
I don't see any data or statistical evidence showing that 3D Land/World received more commercial success from merging 2D Mario into 3D Mario.
As of June 30th, 2015:
Super Mario Galaxy - 12.50 million
Super Mario 64 DS - 11.05 million
SUPER MARIO 3D LAND - 10.10 million
Super Mario 3D World - 4.3 million
I'd argue that less Nintendo fans bought Wii U because Super Mario 3D World didn't offer a large, ambitious single player experience like Mario Galaxy or Super Mario 64.
That's not to say that 3D World is bad (because it's a fantastic game) but it wasn't what many people wanted at the time.
I don't see any data or statistical evidence showing that 3D Land/World received more commercial success from merging 2D Mario into 3D Mario.
As of June 30th, 2015:
Super Mario Galaxy - 12.50 million
Super Mario 64 DS - 11.05 million
SUPER MARIO 3D LAND - 10.10 million
Super Mario 3D World - 4.3 million
I'd argue that less Nintendo fans bought Wii U because Super Mario 3D World didn't offer a large, ambitious single player experience like Mario Galaxy or Super Mario 64.
That's not to say that 3D World is bad (because it's a fantastic game) but it wasn't what many people wanted at the time.
Youre drastically overstating how repetitive it is to replay mario 64. Each star takes you to a different part of the course. Courses have multiple paths, shortcuts and items for getting around.
From a practical standpoint, its impossible to play each star in the same way. For most stars its literally impossible.
What galaxy was so successful at was taking 64s goals and elaborating on them, and even that wasnt exactly the same. If nintendo thought they could boil it down even further and capture it in the straitjackets of 3d worlds course design they were very wrong.
Well let me be the first, Mario 64 gave me motion sickness. I would break out in a sweat after playing it for too long. wanted to throw up after a while. One of the main reasons I preferred Banjo Kazoiie. For some reason Banjo never made me ill.
Exactly. Its pretty clear at this point no matter what nintendo has done to make 3d mario more accessible, its had zero impact on sales performance. Its like they dont have access to their own sales figures.
And for all the please understand over wii u's installed base, the games have failed the system more than the system has failed the games. With particular regards to mario nintendo broke their own rules and didnt create something new to sell a new console. Its imperative that both 3d and 2d mario see major redesigns in both gameplay and aesthetics on NX.
I see Miyamoto saying "both opportunities" meaning that they'll make Mario games for advance players and beginners.
I imagine a new Mario 3D World game at some point but also a new Mario Galaxy or 3D Mario that everyone wants. We never know what they're going to do with Mario really. Did anyone really expect Galaxy to be what it was and having spherical worlds to run around on? No one did. They've constantly evolved Mario out in many directions over the decades and each one being accessible.
I imagine a new Mario 3D World game at some point but also a new Mario Galaxy or 3D Mario that everyone wants. We never know what they're going to do with Mario really. Did anyone really expect Galaxy to be what it was and having spherical worlds to run around on? No one did. They've constantly evolved Mario out in many directions over the decades and each one being accessible.
Doesn't really matter to be honest. It's still important to think about how a character controls in 3D space and how camera work in 3D space. It's that thinking in how they make such good cameras in games that you often hardly notice they're there. I already brought up Metroid Prime as one example for a perfectly natural camera that doesn't get in your way from anything going on.
How much experience do you have with people who don't live and breathe video games? A lot of my friends and family are 'non-gamers' but had a passing interest in the Wii etc. But they'd get, for example, 10 minutes into the Twilight Princess tutorial and give up because the controls and tutorial were just overwhelming. It's a piss easy game for us but if you don't have that background in post-1996 gaming it's too much.
Honestly just watching my older brother get frustrated with 3D games was a big eye opener for what Nintendo's been going for since the Wii. It's not that he's bad at games or stupid, he has a MAME cabinet in his basement and has played every Civilization game as they came out. But Nintendo was really aiming for that 'I played Mario like 25 years ago' demographic (which he fits into) while trying to also keep the 3D mario fans happy.
But they haven't made the 3D games less hard. They've made them easier to understand, and in doing so increased the difficulty of the platforming.
I think when Miyamoto is talking about "too difficult" he's talking about how obtuse the mission structure of 64 could be to some people. The objectives in Mario 64 are super easy in terms of challenge, but interpreting the clues to figure out what to do, while also very easy, were an unnecessary barrier to entry. Having straightforward goals allows them to do more with the player because they know the player isn't getting lost.
And while having those straightforward goals, they also catered to fans of adventure-oriented goals by having sub-goals in the form of green stars and stamps hidden throughout the levels requiring many different adventure-style objectives to find them. The stars are just as required to beat the game as the stars in Mario 64. The only major difference between them is that the stars in 3D World don't force you to replay from the start of the level every time you collect one.
For example, take this level: World 3-3: Shifty Boo Mansion
If the level title screen displayed this:
and every time you collected a star/stamp you were booted back to the world map you'd have something very similar to Mario 64.
Not even close.
The only thing that would provide a similar experience for is the screen before the level loads.
Completely different design methods, yield completely different play experiences.
If they remotely catered to the fans of the adventure style games, then why are they constantly making threads about how they feel completely unfulfilled? Because of the difference in the stages loading screen? Seriously? They are just so fucking stupid, that they can only concieve the difference of the loading screen, and dont realize that everything else is exactly the same? Fuck off with this shit.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I'm sorry but Nintendo needs to stop making games for our Aunts.
Pretty much.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Mario 3D land outsold NSMB2 though. It's not impossible for it to go in the other direction as well.
What? Mario 3D land doing 10 million on less than half the install base of the wii, and less than a third of the DS is astonishingly good. Relatively, more people who own a 3DS looked at it and decided that was a game they had to have. Yes, it didn't reach higher numbers, but that's more because of the consoles holding sales back rather than the other way around.
Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. The CPU has been the bottleneck for both 3DS and Wii U. It's really positive to hear that they might address that.
It's especially funny considering before Wii U launch that anonymous dev said something like "I guess you don't need physics for Mario".
entremet
Member
Wouldn't that makes sense?
People post in threads they're interesting in.
Same thing as FF, MGS, Zelda threads, and so on.
So who should they make games for? The decreasing amount of console gamers? Writing off a majority of the population is a sure fire way to make sure consoles die.
timetokill
Banned
I hate to use the word "entitled" but this thread is making it increasingly hard not to
Maybe if people would start making games that interested us again we wouldnt be buying less and less?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
So I'm entitled because I think it's silly that people want Nintendo to consider my Aunt when developing a new 3D Mario game?
Alrighty then lol. And Fishlake, consoles aren't going anywhere.
Alrighty then lol. And Fishlake, consoles aren't going anywhere.
This. I remember one of my cousins struggling to even finish the dungeon of TP, and abandoning after a few hours.That when I realized that most people suck at video games without hand holding, seriously
timetokill
Banned
You want them to make games for you and nobody else. Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of entitled.
I know! Do we really need an easier Mario game?
If Miyamoto wants to make Galaxy 3 for Wii U, then go for it. However, if he wants to utilize the gamepad, minimize its use to accessing stored up power ups that you can access on the fly. Sorta like SMB3, but accessible within the levels. Make the game beautiful and harness all of Wii U's power to the TV. 60 FPS, gorgeous environments, effects, etc...
visiblemode
Member
Good lord, just make Galaxy 3 already.
TheHolyTurnip
Member
I don't know if I would say sick is the word, but whenever the game first came out and I played it as a kid I would get headaches after more than a couple of hours, much like motion sickness in a car.I haven't played in a awhile and I don't have as much of a problem with motion sickness as I used to, but GoldenEye 64 still completely screws with me. I can't watch that game for more than 30 minutes before having to stop.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Ehh, perhaps you should take your emotional investment/bias for Nintendo out of this. There's a pretty significant difference between myself and my aunt, so when you say "for you and nobody else" that's just emotional hyperbole considering there are literally millions of people that make up the "you and nobody else" you said lol
But I guess wanting a new 3D Mario game for people who actually play and care about Nintendo games is asking for too much.
You are right in the near future consoles will be fine but as controllers get more complicated the entry level will continue to rise. There absolutely needs to be more entry level games in this industry.
entremet
Member
Talk about hyperboles.
They're releasing more 3D mario. Miyamoto was just talking about the difficulties in making the games more accessible.
What do you think EAD Tokyo is working on? They've been the 3D Mario team since Galaxy 1.
I'd honestly prefer that they just try something new. They've already revisited the Galaxy concept once already, no need to do it again.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
That's a wide group of people, that most likely include aunts.
But he said "both" were considered?
timetokill
Banned
wtf? It has nothing to do with emotional investment or lolworthy claims of "bias."
Nintendo wants everyone to be able to play Mario games. As it is, somebody like my sister (she's in her 20's) can play a 2D Mario game with much more ease than a 3D Mario. She's actually too intimidated to even try "rotating" 3D Mario games now since she had a hard time getting Mario to run straight in Mario 64. She had an easier time playing 3D World based on how the camera worked.
But you saying Nintendo should just stop making Mario games accessible for people who don't play games a lot is pure entitlement. Just own up to it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
For one, I don't think controllers will get more complicated than they already are now for casual gamers, and right there he says 2D Mario games aren't going anywhere so there's little need to gimp a 3D Mario game to cater to an audience who cares little to none about it.
Just own up to what? That I don't want my aunt to be the target audience for a new 3D Mario game?
Jesus lol
Belgian Dude
Member
Didn't Mario 64 had worlds because of tech restriction? The plan was for the Bowser-Styled courses to dominate the game IIRC. 64 is great and super fun to play, but besides maybe two/three levels a LOT of missions recquired retreating the same ground which isn't my cup of tea.
Galaxy (2 in particular) is JUST like 3D world, except levels start in the same place and there's a lot more spectacle. Most of the stars in galaxy take you to a whole different area that could be its own individual 3D World level, so really, there have been more examples of games like that than exploration ones.
BK is a much better examples of Open-World Collectathon but then again it's not a Mario 3D platformer so it's not really something about 'Nintendo stopped doing' because, well, they never did it in the first place. As much as I'd love another exploration-based platformer, 3D Mario isn't really the place to look for it.
Galaxy (2 in particular) is JUST like 3D world, except levels start in the same place and there's a lot more spectacle. Most of the stars in galaxy take you to a whole different area that could be its own individual 3D World level, so really, there have been more examples of games like that than exploration ones.
BK is a much better examples of Open-World Collectathon but then again it's not a Mario 3D platformer so it's not really something about 'Nintendo stopped doing' because, well, they never did it in the first place. As much as I'd love another exploration-based platformer, 3D Mario isn't really the place to look for it.
VGChampion
Member
As a kid I would have loved another Mario 64 taking place in or around the castle but I'm so tired of repeat games. I really don't want another Galaxy. I wasn't a huge fan of the first one and I did like Galaxy 2 more but I want to see them do something else.