Professor Beef
Banned
the fuck did i just readWithout that, you are in effect racially profiling Zimmerman because he happens to be of a different race than the victim.
the fuck did i just readWithout that, you are in effect racially profiling Zimmerman because he happens to be of a different race than the victim.
Define "reported to the public"? Are you suggesting the cops were going to cover this up? I mean, it's not like the entire neighborhood this happened in were just going to never talk of it again.
Still at large? They know who he is, and they know where he is. They're trying to determine what the charges are, but there is no doubt he will be charged with a serious crime for this kid's death.
What does race have to do with this story? As I pointed out a moment ago, young black males are shot every day in Chicago, where I live, and I don't see massive outpouring of rage and anger about those incidents.
Why is this one different? I've read all the key facts, and I'm struggling to understand why this case blew up.
Define "reported to the public"? Are you suggesting the cops were going to cover this up? I mean, it's not like the entire neighborhood this happened in were just going to never talk of it again.
Still at large? They know who he is, and they know where he is. They're trying to determine what the charges are, but there is no doubt he will be charged with a serious crime for this kid's death.
What does race have to do with this story? As I pointed out a moment ago, young black males are shot every day in Chicago, where I live, and I don't see massive outpouring of rage and anger about those incidents.
Why is this one different? I've read all the key facts, and I'm struggling to understand why this case blew up.
Link: http://www.wesh.com/r/30734271/detail.htmlCNN: Vote of "no confidence" in Sanford police chief.
While I'm glad to hear this, I still wonder why George Zimmerman isn't in custody by now.City Manager Norton N. Bonaparte Jr. will decide whether to ask for the chief's resignation or fire him. If Bonaparte decides to do neither, he can then be held accountable for any future problems with the chief.
I'm trying to understand why this story has gotten such attention. I'm not trying to be callous, but I just feel like there are shootings every single day in Chicago, not far from where I live, and I don't see thousands of people assembling in cities to mourn those losses.
Many of the victims of those Chicago shootings are the same age as Trayvon, so the tragedy is no less sad.
...people are shot every day in Chicago where everyone knows who the killer is and the killer gets to go shopping the next day like nothing happened?
Remind me not to go to Chicago.
I'm not from Chicago, so I don't know what it's like there, but racially charged crimes are common place in the south. This was racially charged, no question.
Also, I don't think they know Zimmerman's whereabouts, but I hope I'm wrong.
And there's statutes in Florida Law that could get that psycho off the hook, worse of all.
Because the people who commit the shootings in your area don't walk free when they openly tell police they shot someone. The people in your area who commit shootings aren't neighborhood watch volunteers who carry concealed weapons. That's what's not typical.
Link: http://www.wesh.com/r/30734271/detail.htmlWhile I'm glad to hear this, I still wonder why George Zimmerman isn't in custody by now.
The Sanford City Commission passed a vote of "no confidence" in police Chief Bill Lee Wednesday night.
Oh, so you know it was racially charged? Because I've read nothing that seems to make that clear.
Link: http://www.wesh.com/r/30734271/detail.htmlWhile I'm glad to hear this, I still wonder why George Zimmerman isn't in custody by now.
Why is this one different? I've read all the key facts, and I'm struggling to understand why this case blew up.
Define "reported to the public"? Are you suggesting the cops were going to cover this up? I mean, it's not like the entire neighborhood this happened in were just going to never talk of it again.
Still at large? They know who he is, and they know where he is. They're trying to determine what the charges are, but there is no doubt he will be charged with a serious crime for this kid's death.
What does race have to do with this story? As I pointed out a moment ago, young black males are shot every day in Chicago, where I live, and I don't see massive outpouring of rage and anger about those incidents.
Why is this one different? I've read all the key facts, and I'm struggling to understand why this case blew up.
There's a somewhat similar case around here where a young man looking for help in the middle of night was shot by a homeowner.
The homeowner was arrested for murder the next day.
Link?
In 2005, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest with violence. State alcohol agents said Zimmerman pushed them while they were arresting a friend of his during an underage drinking operation at a bar. Zimmerman avoided a conviction by going into a pretrial program that is offered to people with no prior arrests.
Trust me, I try to avoid the city as much as possible, for those very reasons.
Over 400 people per year are murdered in Chicago. That is more than 1 per day.
Oh, so you know it was racially charged? Because I've read nothing that seems to make that clear.
Yeah, but almost all of the people who shoot other people generally run away the moment they've fired the weapon, and avoid talking to the cops at all costs. In this case the guy called the cops himself, and openly acknowledged what had happened. He's cooperated with them, and will be charged soon.
He followed and continued the kid when he was told to stand down.
The police didn't want to release the multiple 911 tapes.
The man is walking around free..
I'd say its simple: Parents are losing their mind about the loss of their child. Asking police for answers, they get none. The man who murdered their child can go to DQ and grab an ice cream, while on the other hand, kid can lay dead. Only logical thing to do is get the media involved and grab an attorney..seems to get peoples attention.
Man don't even bother explaining to people who can't be bothered to read. This story is everywhere, let him wallow in his own damn ignorance.
I got from the phone call that dude was racist so it isn't a stretch that he was hostile and racist when confronting the kid.
In addition to what we've heard in the calls, Zimmerman's paranoid personality (calling police over 40 times in a year). I don't think it took a real fight for him to whip out a gun.
Yeah, but almost all of the people who shoot other people generally run away the moment they've fired the weapon, and avoid talking to the cops at all costs. In this case the guy called the cops himself, and openly acknowledged what had happened. He's cooperated with them, and will be charged soon.
My comments are based on the evidence. I've been forced into the position of "negating the racist angle" because that's what it suggests to me, and because this thread has been unfairly one sided from the very beginning. If you have information that's sufficiently compelling or irrefutable, please add it. If it happens to come out that Zimmerman has ties to the KKK, extremist skin head groups, or something along those lines--that's great. Your prejudices and biases happened to be correct, but you were still wrong for judging/labeling him in the first place--when it was based on nothing tangible. Without that, you are in effect racially profiling Zimmerman because he happens to be of a different race than the victim.
So basically, you're still feigning ignorance about knowing (or at least, trying to learn more about) all of the details, and you're simply back to champion how you were right about "how it's not racism" earlier in the thread. Kudos!
Obviously the second gap is a bit larger...but the seeming hatred George displayed for his eventual victim is not insignificant, and the perception he had versus the actual truth...well, the jump isn't as far as it was before the 911 calls were released.
One last thing: you do realize I also bolded that you were a clown, right? Context stays the same in either interpretation. You've had plenty of time to demonstrate your views on race, and they've all been laughably misguided:You literally called a levelheaded statement out as part of a post of "foolish assumptions", then go on to make absolutely outlandish (and some would say ignorant) assumptions yourself. Of course, there's more:and this exchange:You basically tell someone that they can't use age as a metric in describing the case, because a 17 year old kid could be a large black lineman or a gangbanger who decided to target the Neighborhood Watch captain for initiation. When confronted on your dense examples of young threatening black males, you basically admit you don't know shit.
Racial profiling is extremely apparent from the 911 call, so yes.
Can someone give me the tl;dr on this whole story so far???
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- Outrage over the killing of an unarmed Florida teenager grew nationwide Wednesday as at least 1,000 supporters of Trayvon Martin took to the streets of New York and a petition demanding the shooter's arrest amassed nearly 1 million signatures.
Members of Martin's family were among demonstrators in New York for a "Million Hoodie March," a reference to the attire the 17-year-old was wearing when he was shot.
"A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically suspicious," an online protest page says. "Let's put an end to racial profiling."
More than 900,000 people have signed a petition on Change.org demanding the arrest of the shooter, George Zimmerman.
Martin was fatally shot February 26 while walking to the house of his father's fiancee in Sanford, Florida, after a trip to a convenience store. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch leader, said he shot the teen in self-defense.
Zimmerman has not been arrested or charged. A police report describes him as a white male; his family says he is Hispanic.
Demonstrators of all races crowded into New York's Union Square on Wednesday night, demanding justice. Many of them wore hoodies and carried Skittles, the candy Martin had bought on the night he was killed.
"I am Trayvon Martin!" the crowd chanted as they marched for about an hour, returning to Union Square. Others chanted, "I'm a suspicious person," a reference to the shooter's description of Martin to a 911 operator. A boy carried a sign that read, "Will I be next?"
"We will not go quietly into the night," Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's attorney, told the protesters. "We have to make sure we understand what happened so we can never let this tragedy happen again."
"No justice, no peace!" the crowd chanted.
"George Zimmerman took Trayvon's life for nothing," the teenager's father, Tracy Martin, told the demonstrators. "Our son did not deserve to die. There's nothing that we can say that will bring him back, but I'm here today to assure that justice is served and that no other parents have to go through this again."
"Our son is your son," Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, told the crowd. "This is not about a black-and-white thing. This is about a right-and-wrong thing. Justice for Trayvon!"
Earlier, she described her situation as "a nightmare" to Anderson Cooper on his talk show. "It's hard to sleep," she said about her son. "Everything reminds me of him, and the only thing that's fueling us to keep pressing on for justice is the fact that we know that justice will be served."
Tracy Martin said race played a role in the police investigation. "Had Trayvon been a white kid ... Zimmerman would have been arrested," he said.
On Wednesday night, the Sanford City Commissioners, passed by 3-2 a no-confidence vote in Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee. It was not immediately clear what impact, if any, that would have.
The vote came a day after Ben Jealous, head of the NAACP, demanded Lee's resignation, accusing him of having mishandled the case by not arresting Zimmerman.
The U.S. Justice Department has launched a civil rights investigation into the shooting.
The incident occurred when Zimmerman, who was patrolling the neighborhood, saw the teen walking home after buying candy and a drink at a convenience store.
Zimmerman called 911 and reported what he described as a suspicious person. Moments later, several neighbors called the emergency number to report a commotion outside.
Heated debate has erupted over whether Zimmerman used a racial slur during the 911 call, a recording of which was released this week.
"We didn't hear it. However, I am not sure what was said," Sgt. David Morgenstern of the Sanford Police Department said.
"I have listened to the tapes, and I have not heard them use a racial slur," concurred Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte.
A top CNN audio engineer enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a racial slur.
Whether Zimmerman used such language prior to shooting Martin is key, according to CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin. "It's extremely, extremely significant because the federal government is not allowed to prosecute just your ordinary, everyday murder. Two people fighting on the street is not a federal crime. However, if one person shoots another based on racial hostility, racial animus, that does become a federal crime."
Toobin said that if "very shortly before" the shooting, "Zimmerman used this racial epithet to refer to the person he openly shot, that very much puts it within the FBI's and the Justice Department's ambit of a case that they could prosecute."
The Martin family's lawyer said the 911 call was questionable even if there was no slur.
"Without even hearing the conflicting part, we did hear, number one, that he said 'these people,'" Crump said. "What did he mean when he said 'these people'? He also profiled him because he was a young black person with a hood on.
"So it goes without saying, even if you don't get to the thing that everyone is debating, he already had a mentality when he got out of that car that this was a young black man, and he had assumed that he was a criminal, and you know what happens when you assume," Crump said.
The 911 tapes show that, while some neighbors were on the phone with emergency dispatchers, cries for help followed by a gunshot sounded in the background.
"The time that we heard the whining and then the gunshot, we did not hear any wrestling, no punching, no fighting, nothing to make it sound like there was a fight," said Mary Cutcher, one of the callers.
Cutcher said Zimmerman was confused after the shooting.
"He'd pace and go back to the body and just like -- I don't know if he was kind of 'Oh, my God, what did I do? What happened?'" she said.
Another caller, Selma Mora Lamilla, said she did not hear any altercation, but the teen cried and "whimpered" before the shooting.
She described Zimmerman as "straddling" the teen after the shooting, saying he was "on his knees on top of a body."
Crump said Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him during the incident and can help prove he was killed "in cold blood."
The girl connects the dots and "completely blows Zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water," Crump said Tuesday.
Shortly before he was shot, the teen told his girlfriend that someone was following him and he was trying to get away, according to the lawyer. The girl, who did not want to be identified, said that during the call, she heard Martin ask why the person was following him.
She got the impression there was an altercation in which his cell phone earpiece fell out after he was pushed, and the connection went dead, Crump said.
She did not hear gunfire, he said.
Records show that Martin was on the phone with her much of the day, including around the time of the killing, the lawyer said.
A Seminole County grand jury will convene April 10 on the matter, State Attorney Norm Wolfinger said in a statement.
Martin's family said they believe race was a factor in his death, fueling an outcry in the racially mixed community 16 miles northeast of Orlando.
CNN has made numerous attempts to contact Zimmerman but has been unsuccessful. His father, Robert Zimmerman, told a Florida newspaper that Zimmerman had moved after receiving death threats.
Zimmerman's family has denied that race played a role, saying he has many minority relatives and friends.
Zimmerman, 28, is a part-time student at Seminole State College, according to the school. He was married in 2007.
"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading. Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas," his father said in the letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. "George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life.
"Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
Frank Taaffe, a neighbor and friend of Zimmerman's, told HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell that his friend was only inquiring about why Martin was in the area, considering that there had been incidents involving young black men in the neighborhood committing crimes.
"Zimmerman is not a racist," he said. "George Zimmerman is a caring man."
Police say they have not charged Zimmerman because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense.
In a police report, Officer Timothy Smith said Zimmerman said he was "yelling for someone to help me," but the victim's family said it was the teen asking for help.
The shooting has renewed a debate over a controversial state law and sparked calls for a review.
Florida's deadly force law, also called "stand your ground," allows people to meet "force with force" if they believe that they or someone else is in danger of being seriously harmed by an assailant, but exactly what happened in the moments leading up to Martin's death remains unclear.
Zimmerman's father said his son never followed or confronted the teen, but 911 recordings tell a different story.
During the incident, the teen started to run, Zimmerman said.
When Zimmerman said he was following the teenager, the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."
The case is rooted in one main thing, said Jeffrey Toobin, a senior legal analyst for CNN: "Clearly, the question at the heart of the case is whether Zimmerman reasonably felt threatened. On this issue, the evidence currently seems murky."
Finding other witnesses is crucial because the teen cannot give his side, he said.
State Sen. Oscar Braynon II sent a letter to Florida Senate President Mike Haridopolos asking for a review of the stand-your-ground law. Braynon called for a legislative panel to look into how the law has been used and implemented.
"The ultimate goal of such process is to decrease the number of incidents like that of Trayvon's and discourage more individuals from deciding to become vigilantes resulting in more lives lost," Braynon wrote.
Florida Gov. Rick Scott said he was going to look into the law "because if what's happening is that it's being abused, that's not right."
The comments people post on Beck's site are enough to make you want to choke a mother fucker. It's unbelievable how some people think.
Can you post the actual transcripts to which you're referring here cj--or perhaps a link to a story that covers them? This is not to imply you're wrong or right, just that the information has been decidedly at odds the last few pages. The audio tapes have reportedly ranged from "He's black! These fucking coons always get away" to "He's wearing a Hoodie, not sure what race, may be black. These fucking punks always get away". I'm not sure which is the real story is here. As you can see, people have been critical of me for feigning ignorance, well, maybe that's because this has been an ongoing issue in this thread--vaguely referring to things without actually posting any of the specifics. Just post the information and let people decide for themselves. If the information is conflicting depending on the source, disclose it as such.
My comments are based on the evidence. I've been forced into the position of "negating the racist angle" because that's what it suggests to me, and because this thread has been unfairly one sided from the very beginning. If you have information that's sufficiently compelling or irrefutable, please add it. If it happens to come out that Zimmerman has ties to the KKK, extremist skin head groups, or something along those lines--that's great. Your prejudices and biases happened to be correct, but you were still wrong for judging/labeling him in the first place--when it was based on nothing tangible. Without that, you are in effect racially profiling Zimmerman because he happens to be of a different race than the victim.
I'm curious as to why the media is portraying Zimmerman as a white guy, he is Hispanic.
SANFORD, Fla -- The many missteps in the Trayvon Martin investigation that may cost this small towns police chief his job started with semantics.
The boys father says police depicted George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot an unarmed Miami Gardens teenager while on his nightly patrol, as squeaky clean. Then Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee told an Orlando TV station that the gunman didnt have a criminal record technically true: Charges in the shooters 2005 felony arrest, which the chief did not mention, had been dropped.
Now Chief Lee, who came on the job just 10 months ago for $102,000 a year to clean up a department tainted by racial scandals, finds himself under fire in what promises to be one of the most explosive law enforcement cases of the year. For weeks, black leaders have called for the firing of Lee, a Sanford native with a three-decade career in law enforcement whose father once ran the nearby black neighborhoods convenience store.
In a 3-2 vote Wednesday night, the Sanford City Commission gave the chief a vote of no confidence, adding to the mounting national pressure to oust him.
What began as misunderstandings, technicalities and poor word choice mushroomed into what critics are calling a deeply flawed investigation, which is now being looked at by state and federal agencies.
Ive never thought the chief was a racist or anything. Its more of a lack of experience and a lack of leadership, said Commissioner Velma Williams, who advocated that the chief resign to quell tensions before a rally next week, timed for Mondays city commission meeting.
Mayor Jeff Triplett told reporters afterward that he voted against the chief over his management and communication. City manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. told reporters that he would not make a decision about the chiefs fate until he learns from an independent law enforcement agency what mistakes police might have made. This week the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement launched their own investigations.
Phone records have not yet been inspected, witnesses calls were allegedly not returned and the criminal record of the shooter was not checked until the morning after the shooting what experts call examples of sloppy police work that undermined the police departments credibility and could hamper a future prosecution. Together, gaffes big and small helped foster Trayvons familys belief that investigators were out to protect the accused.
Basically, from day one, we didnt feel that the police were doing a thorough investigation, said Trayvons father, Tracy Martin, a Miami-Dade truck driver. They were taking Zimmermans word that he didnt murder our son.
So many legislators, online petitioners, national civil rights leaders and even celebrities have denounced the inquiry that the city manager the only one who can fire Lee made the chief respond to the most frequent criticisms in writing. He posted Lees answers on the citys website.
Among the allegations:
As evidence that the incident was not a case of racial profiling, Lee told The Miami Herald that when the police dispatch operator asked Zimmerman the race of the suspicious person he saw, the Hispanic neighborhood watch captain did not know. Yet when the recording of that conversation was made public, Zimmerman clearly says, he looks black.
The police report identified him as a white male.I'm curious as to why the media is portraying Zimmerman as a white guy, he is Hispanic.
The police didn't did any investigation at all , which I fine incredible.
No, I meant the whole "because he was a football player, here's how it went down".
Yeah I though they would atleast look like they were trying but its like they didn't give a damn."incredible" really is the right word.
It's something you don't expect or believe would ever happen in 2012.
and yet, here we all are...and we've known it since the very beginning.
In the state of Florida and other smaller pockets around this great nation. We people of African descent are treated lesser than horses. i.e animals. i.e no souls. To kill one of us is as simple as killing an insect to some people.
I get the impression the cops have been forced into a corner of defending their position (and therefore Zimmerman) because they handled the initial investigation so poorly. They're just trying to protect themselves (the fucks).
That's the impression I was getting too. What do you say when someone calls your investigation into question "Who knows, maybe we fucked up" - nah, you stand by that shit, or it's your ass.
Apparently though, they've been pushed into a corner and now they've admitted that they 'overlooked some evidence' and have to re-open the case (which they closed pretty quickly in the first place).
Why is Zimmerman getting so much protection? He isn't rich or connected from what I see.
And if I drive to West Philly right now, get out of my car and start walking, odds are pretty good that someone will shoot me because I'm white.
Why is Zimmerman getting so much protection? He isn't rich or connected from what I see.
And if I drive to West Philly right now, get out of my car and start walking, odds are pretty good that someone will shoot me because I'm white.
It's kind of a shame, everyone makes mistakes (even though they're likely just racist bastards). There should be no shame in admitting mistakes/problems instead of just doubling down and pretending like up is down.