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FF Rebirth sold less than FFXVI in Japan at launch (336,027 vs 262,656) Retail
- Thread starter LordOcidax
- Start date
- Sales-Age
ProtoByte
Member
That's not going to make a material difference, especially not in Japan.
This would make more of a difference, but I think its entirely speculative by how much.
As I've said before FF's problem isn't exclusivity. It's thay the games just aren't appealing enough relative to how they used to. At least, not in Japan. And I don't think there's much reversing that domestic problem.
It's so confusing, since it's not like Japan hasn't bought into PS5 hardware at a reasonable clip. They sold a record number of consoles last year.
Digital split notwithstanding, that's closer than I would've thought.
Would be interesting to have a country by country breakdown. Iirc, we had it, no?
You think so? I really don't. The PlayStation audience doesn't buy PlayStation for Ace Attorney. In the short run, ports will obviously increase total sales units. In the long run, I believe it will level out. 99% of the people that want Ace Attorney get a Switch, and then get Ace Attorney. It's the same thing I've been saying as it pertains to PlayStation porting 1st parties to PC.
I know I'm asking for a lot of data, but can you name some examples?
Grow the game, yes. Grow the audience? I have doubts.
IAmRei
Member
The first time i saw moggle open their eyes, and im scared ....
simpatico
Member
Yeah, Square is obviously outsourcing to Inida. 0% chance that monstrosity was modeled by Japanese hands. It's pure nightmare fuel.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Someone here was saying that FFVII Remake part 2 was killing it on japan....
...can someone explain these numbers?
...can someone explain these numbers?
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I wish I could pop into an alternate universe to see what the figures would be for a faithful remake all other variables remaining the same.Someone here was saying that FFVII Remake part 2 was killing it on japan....
...can someone explain these numbers?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
similar thought but instead i wish Square Soft was still a thing with a strong creative vision and adequate technology to to make proper Final Fantasy games in the first place.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
People wanting a downscale version of Rebirth for the Switch... the 1997 version maybe?
Madflavor
Member
The PC market has seen huge growth in Japan over the past several years, and considering XIV's strong player count in Japan, I'm inclined to believe a PC release at launch would absolutely make a difference.
LazyParrot
Member
Sequels to lengthy RPGs are kind of cursed, especially if they can't stand on their own in terms of the story. It's a well established fact that most people who buy single player games don't beat them, and nobody who dropped Remake is going to buy Rebirth.
Same thing happened when the Trails In The Sky games released on Steam. The first game sold gangbusters, but numbers for the sequel took a nosedive because even the people who had left glowing reviews for the first game often hadn't actually finished it and thus held off on investing more into the series.
Same thing happened when the Trails In The Sky games released on Steam. The first game sold gangbusters, but numbers for the sequel took a nosedive because even the people who had left glowing reviews for the first game often hadn't actually finished it and thus held off on investing more into the series.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Someone here was saying that FFVII Remake part 2 was killing it on japan....
...can someone explain these numbers?
Seems the sales of Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth sold lower at debut week with a steep fall over the Final Fantasy 16. Despite that the install base of Playstation 5 is higher when Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth launches compared to when Final Fantasy 16 launches.
Woopah
Member
We got one by region, but not by country, for World. Nothing for Rise as it came out after the #Capcom leak
I think a lot of people can be interested in a game or franchise, without being interested enough to buy a whole platform for it. There are at least 1.7 million people who were interested in Persona 5 Royal, but hadn't bought it on PlayStation. That strongly suggests that not everyone who might enjoy Persona owns a PlayStation. Likewise not everyone who is interested in Ace Attorney owns a Switch.
Konami's baseball franchise is a good example I think:
PS4: Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 - 252,297
PSV: Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2018 - 119,754
PS4: Pro Baseball Spirits 2019 - 259,227
PSV: Pro Baseball Spirits 2019 - 70,763
Switch: Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball (2019) - 225,614
Switch: eBaseball Powerful Pro Baseball 2020 - 342,187
PS4: eBaseball Powerful Pro Baseball 2020 - 189,649
Switch: eBaseball Pro Baseball Spirits 2021: Grand Slam - 259,126
Switch: eBaseball Powerful Pro Baseball 2022 - 314,533
PS4: eBaseball Powerful Pro Baseball 2022 - 107,222
In 2018 Switch had already been out for a year, but Konami didn't even put the game on Switch. In 2019 they made a bit more of an effort and basically ported the cartoony 2018 PS4 game to Switch that year, while the realistic 2019 game stayed PS exclusive.
But by then they'd seen the direction the wind was blowing, and from 2020 onwards they have made sure their baseball games are all on Switch from Day 1. That's helped them reach a new audience.
Lets say that for the next 15 years Capcom only releases Monster Hunter games on PlayStation vs. publishing it on PlayStation, Switch and PC. After those 15 years, would the audience for the franchise not be much bigger in the latter scenario?
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Pejo
Member
Someone here was saying that FFVII Remake part 2 was killing it on japan....
...can someone explain these numbers?
Lethal01
I think it was you and I discussing these sales a few days ago. In regards to this post:
Do you still stand by your statement that FF as a brand isn't hurting, and that it is "THE can't miss franchise"?
To be clear, I don't want to be a petulant shit about quoting a few days old post, but I think the FF brand has absolutely been damaged or at least watered down enough to where this game isn't what it once was as far as fan sentiment (and obviously sales).
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
It is extremely clear to me that Square's systematic mismanagement of the franchise dating back arguably to ousting Matsuno from FFXII and to FFX-2 has resulted in the gradual erosion of mass market mindshare and fan loyalty. XVI was an attempt to turn things around but just wasn't a very good game, and VII Re- is a terrible remake that is simply worse than the original.
In regards to this post:
Do you still stand by your statement that FF as a brand isn't hurting, and that it is "THE can't miss franchise"?
To be clear, I don't want to be a petulant shit about quoting a few days old post, but I think the FF brand has absolutely been damaged or at least watered down enough to where this game isn't what it once was as far as fan sentiment (and obviously sales).
Killer8
Member
It's been common for a while now for Japanese games to do better overseas than domestically. Japanese gamers just have completely different priorities nowadays with all the mobile, F2P and gacha shit they pump their hours and yen into. The discussion inevitably always leads to "what can Square Enix do to win back Japan?" I say: do fucking nothing. Japanese games have been firing on all cylinders for the last couple of generations, change nothing. Let us Westerners foot the bill.
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Woopah
Member
For Square Enix the main course of action is to ensure their games on Switch 2, unless Sony pays them not to.
Goalus
Member
What can they do? I'd say make their female characters less beautiful, give them male traits and let them behave like men in general. This will attract female players, and transform the male ones into super-fans.
Sakura
Member
For all we know sales numbers in the west won't be that impressive either.
Kacho
Member
With no PR this week I’d say that’s likely the case
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Lethal01
Member
In regards to this post:
Do you still stand by your statement that FF as a brand isn't hurting, and that it is "THE can't miss franchise"?
To be clear, I don't want to be a petulant shit about quoting a few days old post, but I think the FF brand has absolutely been damaged or at least watered down enough to where this game isn't what it once was as far as fan sentiment (and obviously sales).
I don't know why you would think I would change my mind when you are quoting my standpoint.
Again, what the number tell us is that Final Fantasy brand was "hurt" enough that right now the Final fantasy brand is the best selling franchise on PS5 in Japan by far.
This is me talking specifically about Japan and these PS5 sales numbers, they simply don't back up the claim that the franchise is doing badly, unless you're expecting it to be some actual miracle game with a 50% attach rate.
We could find out tomorrow that it's worldwide number are absolutely atrocious but it wouldn't change the fact that it had a great launch on PS5 in Japan and people trying to paint it as a bad launch just saw what they wanted to see.
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lordrand11
Member
Stop releasing as console only exclusive? Or decrease the exclusivity time so it can be ported over to other platforms like PC quicker to help drive sales?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i don't think that is the issue
Kacho
Member
Explain
sendit
Member
You looked at the data on that tweet and came to that conclusion?
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
how do you then explain that had it had a lower launch than FFXVI and a bigger second week drop?
Now, I think these numbers are only physical right? maybe with digital things are not going to look as bad.
Lethal01
Member
I don't expect Digital to be any higher than normal.
That said the drop is bigger by 2% which is just not worth mentioning at all, could really be a rounding error the difference is microscopic.
The lower sales is a different story though, this game is a direct sequel vs 16 which is a standalone and also the latest mainline entry into the franchise. But they are still the two biggest launches by far.
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Deerock71
Member
Is that what the rest of the world is saying, too? Because I'm sure it's just FLYING OFF SHELVES in your region.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I have seen this narrative that FFVII would have sold dramatically more with PC and Xbox included
And also that FFVII is a flop because of its exclusivity.
I'm saying that its exclusivity is not the issue but the state of the brand and the nature of FFVII itself.
1.The brand has been on a downward trend since FFX, unable to deliver what a FF game is supposed to be.
Every new divisive entry will burn out some fans who will not buy the next entry outright, as well as damage the word of mouth and sentiment for the games and franchise over the years.
Now, you can see the opposite effect with Souls games. Since Demon's Souls, FromSoftware had a strong formula/vision with a niche audience at first, slowly and consistently improving and refining it until it reached mainstream levels with Elden Ring
FF has lacked a strong vision and compelling formula since SS became SE
2. FFVII was the 'Elden Ring' of its time.
But SE isn't FromSoftware, so this remake is being done from a position of weakness in terms of design and technology (vision and formula). In other words, there is no build-up to create a zeitgeist event like when FFVII first released. This remake is sustained by nostalgia and fan service, but the outdated design and padding are not going to capture the general public or convert old fans who have been disappointed and disillusioned. It feels like overcompensation for the lack of innovation and creativity.
in other words: FFVII remake should perform like a GOW 2018/Ragnarok, around 3-5 Million sells in the firs week.
the current performance is just a sign that there is not a huge interest in the IP from the general public in the first place. and if that's the case on Play Station it will be far worse on PC and especially Xbox.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
ok. is there any info about how many copies were sold in the first week world wide?
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I don’t think it’s just Japan. But I also don’t think SE is making the games like the ones that did sell extremely well. If SE came out and said the next tentpole FF game was going to be a turn based 2D-HD game, I think Japan would be down for that more than these super high budget action games. I say that as someone that really likes Rebirth.
Kacho
Member
Thanks. I disagree that exclusivity isn’t a factor in damaging the FF brand, but I agree with the rest of what you said.
Pejo
Member
You keep using this specific PS5 launch week physical sales thing, but several of us are talking specifically about the series as a whole is in decline.
It's tough to find reliable numbers, especially for older data that wasn't tracked as closely as it is now. According to Google, gaming was 5x bigger in total revenue in 2023 (184 billion USD) than it was in 1997(35~ billion USD), but FFVII sold 3.4~ million units in Japan alone on PS1 LTD. FFXVI for comparison's sake sold an estimated 414k LTD so far, in Japan. Sure you can argue that they might get an uptick because of future DLC or sales or something, but there's virtually no chance it breaks 2 million at this stage in the game, in Japan. FFVII Remake is sitting currently at 1.4 million in Japan, and by all counts Rebirth is doing significantly worse than it did with the chart I quoted earlier in this thread.
All of the numbers I got from FF series sales were gathered here. I'll be honest I hate looking up these numbers and comparing various lists and metrics, but the point I'm trying to make here is that Final Fantasy is much weaker of a brand now than it was.
Is that a good number for physical first week sales for a PS5 exclusive? Yes. You've made your point. But for Final Fantasy those numbers are absolutely pedestrian.
Badlucktroll
Member
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's probably bombing in Japan because
>because it's not the full story
>FF is a stagnating brand as a whole
>Japan is more mobile/handheld centric and on the move all the time which is why Mobile Phones and the Switch with it's handheld mode are more popular
>Will come to PC later
>Perhaps mixed reception from FF16
>Releases flip flop from different genres with each entry indicating lack of identity
>I'm noticing much higher sellthrough and console loyalty with the PSX-PS4. Ergo PS5 has a small install base.
Would love to see global sales for the first week, month, and later year and then compare contrast with previous FF titles.
>because it's not the full story
>FF is a stagnating brand as a whole
>Japan is more mobile/handheld centric and on the move all the time which is why Mobile Phones and the Switch with it's handheld mode are more popular
>Will come to PC later
>Perhaps mixed reception from FF16
>Releases flip flop from different genres with each entry indicating lack of identity
>I'm noticing much higher sellthrough and console loyalty with the PSX-PS4. Ergo PS5 has a small install base.
Would love to see global sales for the first week, month, and later year and then compare contrast with previous FF titles.
Woopah
Member
Mobile/handheld has nothing to do with it given PS5 is selling faster than PS4 and PS3.
Lethal01
Member
Revenue include mobile and gacha games
The series as a whole may be in decline, I am simply in opposition to these specific launch number being a good indication of this becalse they clearly show that everything else on PS5 was doing worse so the problem seems to be with playstation rather than something like th game being turn based or something like that.
Against if this is a bomb on PS5 then what game is a success?
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Chukhopops
Member
Remember that XVI retail sales in the UK were down 74% compared to XV:Rebirth sales are up 6% over FFXVI in the UK:
It’s spiraling down but at different paces in each country.
Madflavor
Member
Final Fantasy is declining in Japan, but being exclusive to a dead console is significantly expediting that decline. We have plenty of data to show that this is absolutely the case. PS5s have sold a lot over there, but software sales are down across the board. The fact that there’s a wide gulf between the sales of the #1&2 selling PS5 games (both being FFs) compared to the rest of the games in the Top 10, suggests exclusivity is the biggest factor.
You also have to keep in mind that Japan is currently going through some economic hard knocks, and a $70 price tag (whatever that is in Yen) is a tall order for a lot of people. Especially for people who, given what data has shown, are more inclined to play mobile and f2p games these days.
You also have to keep in mind that Japan is currently going through some economic hard knocks, and a $70 price tag (whatever that is in Yen) is a tall order for a lot of people. Especially for people who, given what data has shown, are more inclined to play mobile and f2p games these days.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Nah it's a factor. Plus if you compare sales of previous FF games across it's timeline you most definitely see a massive decline. It's gone down on average from 1.3m sales to around 200-300k. For a mainline title that's not good at all. For a new IP or niche title it's great but for FF that's atrocious.
I also forgot another factor which is Price Inflation.
The games itself play a major factor. Lots more people had a PS4 and some may not be so keen to buy another system just for Rebirth and if you have a PC you can save money by just waiting it out.
Also PS5 selling faster doesn't really matter if no one is buying PS3 or PS4 anymore. I'd only give validity to this statement if PS5 was selling faster that it outsold PS3 and PS4 lifetime sales which currently I do not think it has reached that milestone.
lordrand11
Member
Yeah. You should have too.
lordrand11
Member
Name the last great Final Fantasy game to you.
SantaC
Member
PC gaming has exploaded since last year.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Square and Capcom are traditional Japanese companies that have heavily leaned to the West, for better or worse.
Surprise, surprise, sales declined in Japan. Who could have guessed?
Exclusivity is NOT the issue. Anyway, Square themselves said why this is a console exclusive at launch so the argument is debunked already.
Surprise, surprise, sales declined in Japan. Who could have guessed?
Exclusivity is NOT the issue. Anyway, Square themselves said why this is a console exclusive at launch so the argument is debunked already.
Minsc
Gold Member
Crazy how much difference in sales you have between something like Last of Us or Spiderman exclusives and FF, that's for sure.