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[Exentryk]

Nice thread OP. That gif at the end should be of Prompto though (or Ignis). =P

Anyway, the only thing I noticed that is not there is that each attack seems to have something related to it.
...[SNIP]

Thanks for the post. I did notice the long Rush chains, but I didn't spend too much time on it. I've now added some more details in the weapon section, as it was quite vague.

I don't know if this has a place in your analysis, OP, but if it helps Ignis seems exclusively capable of using cure. [SNIP]

My previous post mentioning the stop bullet had completely incorrect time stamps for the vid with the fixed audio... apologies, I have edited them to be correct now.
... [SNIP]

I am not sure if we can conclude that Ignis is the only one that can cast cure just because we didn't see anyone else use it (even tho I think you may be right). I did notice Prompto's ability that caused the Garula to go in Weak status for a second, but I don't know the name of the ability. Phillipo linked it below.

I think if they give us some more details, I'll have a section for AI party and include these details you've mentioned.

Another skill (バインドバレッ&#12489 used by Prompto:

Anyone know what this translates to?

But can anyone explain this bullet deflection? Is it auto, and how exactly does it work? I thought this was supposed to be a feature of Phantom swords only but Noctis isn't using them.

Noctis is just holding guard, which makes him automatically evade attacks. The effect for dodging bullets they've chosen is that similar to Phantom Sword effect, and I think it's pretty clever/cool.

Nice tutorial. I feel the explanations for the 6 attack types is too vague but I'll assume that is a consequence of what one could see through a video.

Added more detail. Please ask some questions if something is unclear, and that'll give me ideas on what more detail is required.

 

[Turin]

Yeah, I would switch L1 and R1 if I could. It'd feel way more natural to me.

 

[Dark_castle]

Wait? So the translated ATR is out on YouTube? Where did you get this image of a translated steeam?

That screenshot was from an earlier ATR, some time after TGS.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Damn... this or Persona 5 or DBZ:X...

Damn, this or Persona 5.


This actually looks like the first Final Fantasy game I kind of want to play.

 

[abstract alien]

Really awesome visual telling in the OP

 

[Dark_castle]

Btw, there are another two keys that aren't yet revealed for any use, that includes D-pad Up and Down. If they don't have any use (I doubt it), surely they could allocate something there so that sprint (and potentially monster free-run) can go to another button that is not the analogue stick.

 

[Exentryk]

Btw, there are another two keys that aren't yet revealed for any use, that includes D-pad Up and Down. If they don't have any use (I doubt it), surely they could allocate something there so that sprint (and potentially monster free-run) can go to another button that is not the analogue stick.

I honestly don't like stuff being on the Dpad. You have to take your hands off from the left stick stopping your movement and it's just awkward.

 

[Philippo]

TAnyone know what this translates to?

First part is "Bind", second is "Bureddo", no idea what it means. Maybe "Bullet" in Engrish?

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

Noctis is the only character having a MP gauge.. in the final game I expect every character having their own MP gauge. So healing in the demo just by using items, I guess.

 

[Philippo]

Noctis is the only character having a MP gauge.. in the final game I expect every character having their own MP gauge. So healing in the demo just by using items, I guess.

Nah, it's just that is relatively pointless to keep track of AI controlled members MPs, especially if they automatically regen.
And Ignis uses Cure in the footage.

 

[Dark_castle]

I honestly don't like stuff being on the Dpad. You have to take your hands off from the left stick stopping your movement and it's just awkward.

Perhaps. I imagine a good use for Dpad up, down is switching of 'weapon decks'. Not only it eliminate the need for frequently going to pause menu mid-battles for changing weapons, it also provides ways to quickly access to other weapons as Noctis's arsenal grows.

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

Nah, it's just that is relatively pointless to keep track of AI controlled members MPs, especially if they automatically regen.
And Ignis uses Cure in the footage.

keep track of AI controlled members MP is pretty annoying, would be great if they get rid of that. At this point I really would like to see how magic works in the game.

 

[Akiller]

 

[Heartfyre]

Excellent thread. I could actually feel my laptop growing hotter under my fingertips as it was trying to load all those .GIFs.

I'm really liking the battle system so far. I know lots of people are being cynical after Final Fantasy XIII, and not without reason, but I think based on what they've shown, there's a lot to be excited about here.

 

[Exentryk]

First part is "Bind", second is "Bureddo", no idea what it means. Maybe "Bullet" in Engrish?

Cool thanks.

Perhaps. I imagine a good use for Dpad up, down is switching of 'weapon decks'. Not only it eliminate the need for frequently going to pause menu mid-battles for changing weapons, it also provides ways to quickly access to other weapons as Noctis's arsenal grows.

If they indeed include multiple weapon decks, we then would be able to switch weapons manually in a way. We could make 5 decks and each contain 5 of the same type weapons. Then switch decks to effectively switch weapons.

But you wouldn't want the weapon deck switch on the dpad though. L2/R2 might be better there.

I do see a problem with manual weapon/deck switching though, and it may be a reason why XV doesn't have it. The problem with having more than 3 weapons/decks means that it takes a lot of switches to get from one weapon to another, and it ruins the combo flow. It's similar to why Lightning Returns only had three schemas.

 

[Dark_castle]

Cool thanks.



If they indeed include multiple weapon decks, we then would be able to switch weapons manually in a way. We could make 5 decks and each contain 5 of the same type weapons. Then switch decks to effectively switch weapons.

But you wouldn't want the weapon deck switch on the dpad though. L2/R2 might be better there.

I do see a problem with manual weapon/deck switching though, and it may be a reason why XV doesn't have it. The problem with having more than 3 weapons/decks means that it takes a lot of switches to get from one weapon to another, and it ruins the combo flow. It's similar to why Lightning Returns only had three schemas.

I think one change they should really consider is allowing one particular weapon to be slotted to all 5 attack sequences, and as for the abilities, put them under a separate column, and not actually bounded by what weapon was equipped. For instance, once you acquired say, a Blood Sword, HP Drain automatically registered to your 'technique list', and you are given 5 technique slots, eventually unlocked to max of 8 or something, so you can equip HP Drain, taking up one of the slots, but the weapon you use for normal combo can be freely chosen, whether if you want to stick to one or two of your favorite weapon to all sequences or play around with different weapons for different attack sequences.

 

[Exentryk]

I think one change they should really consider is allowing one particular weapon to be slotted to all 5 attack sequences, and as for the abilities, put them under a separate column, and not actually bounded by what weapon was equipped. For instance, once you acquired say, a Blood Sword, HP Drain automatically registered to your 'technique list', and you are given 5 technique slots, eventually unlocked to max of 8 or something, so you can equip HP Drain, taking up one of the slots, but the weapon you use for normal combo can be freely chosen, whether if you want to stick to one or two of your favorite weapon to all sequences or play around with different weapons for different attack sequences.

I think you will be able to add copies of similar weapons in 5 slots if you want, as long as you manage to find 5 copies.

I don't mind abilities being tied to weapons. I think it makes them more special with them. And they should feel special given Noctis's close connection to weapons.

 

[Dark_castle]

I think you will be able to add copies of similar weapons in 5 slots if you want, as long as you manage to find 5 copies.

I don't mind abilities being tied to weapons. It think it makes them more special with them. And they should feel special given Noctis's close connection to them.

In that situation, you would only have one weapon ability though, unless there is a way to add/modify a weapon's ability into something else.

 

[quesalupa]

I didn't really know where to post this but Ignis is totally Hope's dad.

 

[Philippo]

After some thought, i'd like for them to change a couple of things: scrap the Air-related weapon (quite pointless when you can use the same weapon for ground combos), and let the player map all the remaining 4 weapons abilities all to the buttons, so you can use them together all the time. Same goes for magic.

And in the left corner change that skill selector with this window:
L1+R1 Phantom Sword
L2+R2 Summon (probably only one summon at time)
L2 Ability -> (+ Triangle, Circle, Square and Cross for each one of them)
R2 Magic -> (+ Triangle, Circle, Square and Cross for each one of them)

Keep the Items in the Battle Menu (so you can easily select between all of them without rushing), and add an option to switch "decks", that way you can be ready for every occasion.
Also map lock on R1.

 

[Exentryk]

^ Liking the sound of L2 Ability and R2 Magic.

 

[Perfo]

I sincerely don't like the sprint/parkour-mode set to L3, should've been a Trigger Button (L2 or R2) instead.

 

[Dark_castle]

After some thought, i'd like for them to change a couple of things: scrap the Air-related weapon (quite pointless when you can use the same weapon for ground combos), and let the player map all the remaining 4 weapons abilities all to the buttons, so you can use them together all the time. Same goes for magic.

And in the left corner change that skill selector with this window:
L1+R1 Phantom Sword
L2+R2 Summon (probably only one summon at time)
L2 Ability -> (+ Triangle, Circle, Square and Cross for each one of them)
R2 Magic -> (+ Triangle, Circle, Square and Cross for each one of them)

Keep the Items in the Battle Menu (so you can easily select between all of them without rushing), and add an option to switch "decks", that way you can be ready for every occasion.
Also map lock on R1.

Could work, though I might miss the ability to use a different weapon for aerial combo.

I was thinking about another way they could go about the weapon ability control. Do it like Birth By Sleep.

Rather than showing one weapon ability at a time and requiring us to press left/right each time to scroll through it and press Triangle to use the ability, up to 3 abilities are depicted BBS style, and each time an ability (at the center of the three) is used, the next ability is shifted to the center position, and pressing Triangle will activate that ability. You can also freely D-pad up/down to select another ability.

Downside of this approach is if you want to spam one specific ability over and over again, it will be harder to do so.

 

[Falk]

Funny you should bring Command Deck up; E3 2013 trailer was giving off massive Command Deck vibes. Although simplifying it somewhat to a more predictable combo actually opens up for more flexibility.

 

[raven777]

I personally don't like how 'Rush' and 'Slash' system works at the moment.

Rush is basically doing unlimited repetitive combo until enemy's health reaches last hit which then activates Slash finisher.

I personally would have liked them to make Rush do certain amount of hits before activating Slash finisher regardless of enemy's HP. Like you start with 1 break to start -> 4 rush hits -> 1 Slash for 6 hit combo. Then as you level up and get stronger, makes rush longer or add different kind of combination where you do 3 rush -> 3 slash (since slash is stronger hit) or something similar.

 

[Philippo]

Are we even sure Rush attacks are unlimited?
Seems weird, and don't allow for any progress.

 

[raven777]

Are we even sure Rush attacks are unlimited?
Seems weird, and don't allow for any progress.

That was how it worked from gameplay demo presentation on Friday.

When enemy's health is super low, it went from Break to Slash right away, skipping Rush.

 

[Dark_castle]

That was how it worked from gameplay demo presentation on Friday.

When enemy's health is super low, it went from Break to Slash right away, skipping Rush.

Strange. If that's the case, what exactly is the point of Slash in its current implementation? If the monster is about to die anyway, dealing extra damage via Slash seems fairly redundant, doesn't it? Unless, in the final game, there is some kind of Overkill mechanic akin to FFX (more damage for final blow = higher loot %) or if Slash has extra properties of say, doing 'Splash' damage (spreading that damage to surrounding enemies).

 

[chozen]

Yeahh this preset weapon system is lookin akward.

 

[Respawn]

Really nice thread OP, congrats.

I can't wait to play this game, I hope Square will deliver with this one, it's been to long without a good FF, please be good !

To long indeed. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.

 

[raven777]

Strange. If that's the case, what exactly is the point of Slash in its current implementation? If the monster is about to die anyway, dealing extra damage via Slash seems fairly redundant, doesn't it? Unless, in the final game, there is some kind of Overkill mechanic akin to FFX (more damage for final blow = higher loot %) or if Slash has extra properties of say, doing 'Splash' damage (spreading that damage to surrounding enemies).

Well, as it stands, I think they calculate the left over health and Slash damage to trigger Slash.


let's say your Rush damage is 100 and Slash damage is 300. When enemy's remaining health is 300, instead of doing 3 rush to kill, it will do one slash to kill. So in a way it makes for faster kill.

But for me it's too automated atm, and also the unlimited Rush until Slash looks stupid and doesn't seem to have room for growth in the future.

 

[SPAW]

Yeahh this preset weapon system is lookin akward.

This preset weapon system is looking like a breath of fresh air!

it is also probably the only way to have combat sequences with the speed seen in the early VSXIII-trailers with weapons-switching.

 

[Exentryk]

Yeah, Slash gets little to no use this way, esp against tougher monsters. A fixed combo length would be my preferred way as well. Then add abilities like reduce Rush hits, and do 2x finishers etc.

 

[pszet0]

I like the idea of the weapon preset. It adds an extra layer of strategy not seen in your typical hack and slash action RPG. Now it's just all about the execution.

 

[raven777]

Yeah, Slash gets little to no use this way, esp against tougher monsters. A fixed combo length would be my preferred way as well. Then add abilities like reduce Rush hits, and do 2x finishers etc.

The way I see it for the demo atm, I will be using Blood Sword for my Rush weapon since it gives MP for each hits. Basically Slash will be means to charge my MP so I can use powerful abilities.

 

[Dark_castle]

Well, as it stands, I think they calculate the left over health and Slash damage to trigger Slash.


let's say your Rush damage is 100 and Slash damage is 300. When enemy's remaining health is 300, instead of doing 3 rush to kill, it will do one slash to kill. So in a way it makes for faster kill.

But for me it's too automated atm, and also the unlimited Rush until Slash looks stupid and doesn't seem to have room for growth in the future.

The advantage of that seems rather minuscule for all the trouble of setting aside an weapon for Slash, but maybe at a higher level, we can equip some 2H warhammer with zero unique ability, making it extra powerful in terms of raw damage and slot it into Slash, effectively saving quite a number of Rush hits.

I guess that could work.

 

[chozen]

This preset weapon system is looking like a breath of fresh air!

it is also probably the only way to have combat sequences with the speed seen in the early VSXIII-trailers with weapons-switching.

More like a breath of casual and touch of tabata. To say that it's the "only way" is being delusional. This game looks slower than it has ever looked. As I will always say, weapon switching could have been done real time manually in game and wouldn't be that complex to execute either, but would have been more interactive rather than having to pause and swap weapons.

 

[Exentryk]

The way I see it for the demo atm, I will be using Blood Sword for my Rush weapon since it gives MP for each hits. Basically Slash will be means to charge my MP so I can use powerful abilities.

Yeah, that MP Recovery++ is great, and if Rush is the attack that's getting used the most then it makes sense. I also compared the damage done by Avenger (no abilities but balanced stats), and Zweihander (ignores enemy defence), and the difference was pretty small. Avenger does around ~200, while Zweihander does around ~230-250. Add on this that Zweihander is slower than Avenger, it gives Avenger the edge.

So, I reckon I'll go with Avenger - Blood Sword - Partisan as the first trial combination.

EDIT - Zweihander might be better than Partisan for Slash. Will need to compare their damage. But that means your defence ignoring weapon is locked out to Slash, when you could get more use out of it on Raid.

 

[Dark_castle]

More like a breath of casual and touch of tabata. To say that it's the "only way" is being delusional. This game looks slower than it has ever looked. As I will always say, weapon switching could have been done real time manually in game and wouldn't be that complex to execute either, but would have been more interactive rather than having to pause and swap weapons.

Why do you say that? It's really about a different approach here.

Like sure, let's say you can switch the weapons in real time, how exactly are you going to structure your combo based on the idea of what makes the first strike, what makes up for the string of combo, what makes for counter-attack, what makes for the final hit and so forth all in real time? Just think about it for a sec. It just seems too chaotic to be able to keep track of which weapon is currently being used and have another finger on the weapon switching button.

Don't forget that there is already a need to keep track of weapon ability switching, and then eventually Magic as well. By having a system of setting your weapons according to the type of attack you are about to do makes it more intuitive and smooth in the actual combat, AND still works by requiring you physically set the weapons to be used based on each sequence of the normal combo/counter. If you're worried too much about visiting the pause menu too often, that is why some of us were thinking about some ways to customize different decks based on different weapon/action setup.

Also, I hate people throwing around the word 'casual', especially before trying the system itself.

 

[Exentryk]

More like a breath of casual and touch of tabata. To say that it's the "only way" is being delusional. This game looks slower than it has ever looked. As I will always say, weapon switching could have been done real time manually in game and wouldn't be that complex to execute either, but would have been more interactive rather than having to pause and swap weapons.

How you propose manual weapon switch would work in real time given we have 5 weapons so far? Please describe your controller mapping as well.

 

[Nabbis]

TLDR; Is it good? Im a simple man.

 

[Village]

How you propose manual weapon switch would work in real time given we have 5 weapons so far? Please describe your controller mapping as well.

Well dmc4 came out in 08
So dpad bumpers i think... I havent played dmc4 in a little bit

 

[Exentryk]

Well dmc4 came out in 08
So dpad bumpers i think... I havent played dmc4 in a little bit

Haven't played it. Can you describe how they did it?

TLDR; Is it good? Im a simple man.

Sure.

 

[Philippo]

Yeah, Slash gets little to no use this way, esp against tougher monsters. A fixed combo length would be my preferred way as well. Then add abilities like reduce Rush hits, and do 2x finishers etc.

Idk, maybe the same weapon in different slots deal different damages? Like, if you use your spear as Rush it deals 300hps at hit, if its placed as Slash then its 500hp.
That would mean that if the enemy has a given amount of health left, then choosing a stronger/better weapon for Slash would allow you to skip Rush and deal with it in one blow, hence finishing faster and getting a better bonus at the end of the fight.

 

[twobear]

The single button to attack thing sounds quite a lot like Dragon Age.

 

[Exentryk]

Idk, maybe the same weapon in different slots deal different damages? Like, if you use your spear as Rush it deals 300hps at hit, if its placed as Slash then its 500hp.
That would mean that if the enemy has a given amount of health left, then choosing a stronger/better weapon for Slash would allow you to skip Rush and deal with it in one blow, hence finishing faster and getting a better bonus at the end of the fight.

Yeah I know. I was saying that against tougher enemies (5000-10000 HP), you'll only really get one hit out of your Slash Weapon, and most of the effort is being done by Rush, making it the most important weapon in the setup. It's not too big a deal against weaker enemies though.

 

[Dark_castle]

Well dmc4 came out in 08
So dpad bumpers i think... I havent played dmc4 in a little bit

Not trying to take credit away from DMC4, but I don't recall constant weapon switching being the core gameplay element there, though it's been too long way since I played it, so I might have forget things. From my memory, the purpose of the button is just to enable quick swap without going to menu, but it wasn't integral to the gameplay idea of revolving around the use of different weapons. In FFXV, Noctis is a weapon summoner, and the idea of having different weapons to use at all time was the fundamental of the combat. They're just a different beast altogether.

Yeah I know. I was saying that against tougher enemies (5000-10000 HP), you'll only really get one hit out of your Slash Weapon, and most of the effort is being done by Rush, making it the most important weapon in the setup. It's not too big a deal against weaker enemies though.

At first I was thinking the same as you, but then I'm starting to see how Slash can be incredibly useful in regular encounters as Noctis's arsenal grows. Think about it. Slot a very slow, zero-abilities, hard-hitting weapon to Slash. Rush a weak enemy for a couple of hits and Slash will take care of the enemy, effectively saving a lot of time than slowly chipping away enemy's HP with Rush.

 

[Lifejumper]

The combat already looks awesome to me, and it doesnt even include the magic system, the gambit-like system, the summoning system and changing the party equipment

 

[Exentryk]

I'm going to spamming Tempest a lot, coupled with Rush Blood Sword.

 

[chozen]

How you propose manual weapon switch would work in real time given we have 5 weapons so far? Please describe your controller mapping as well.

Ok, Instead of having Left/Right Dpad buttons to swap abilities switch that to Up/Down D pad similar to Birth by sleep. Then have D pad Left/Right to swap weapons in game. Or if you feel that maybe be awkward for the finger put weapon switching on the the L2/R2.
You start with a shortsword and attack smaller creatures that are fast, and if a giant creature comes charging at you simply dodge and press left/right on your d pad and switch to a heavier weapon. How is that so hard?