Support NeoGAF

[Mr. Saturn]

Can you elaborate what this hit-stun is? Must have missed that.

Basically every time Noctis lands a hit on an enemy the game pauses for a split second, I'm guessing this was done to give the combat some impact. The earlier combat footage we've gotten has been much smoother and didn't have any hit stun which has disappointed some the hit stun appearing in the demo that is. I think that's whats going on, someone is more than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously seeing the combat system is not the same as actually experiencing it, so maybe it'll be feel better once we can play the demo.

 

[Death Penalty]

Damn, I must be the only one here who is intrigued by the idea of Slash. Finishing off an enemy with a slow, crushing heavy weapon. Though it would probably be better off if Rush doesn't attack continuously, but rather say 3-4 hit combo and Slash works as the combo finisher.

I actually really like the idea too! It just feels like a bit of a waste if the slash weapon is only used for one attack on any given enemy, though there's a ton of potential with weapon support abilities. Like, a ton. A great compromise would be to make the slash weapon both a weapon that finishes combos and the weapon that appears when the enemy is in that weapon's death zone.

As for the control scheme, it looks to me like there's a lot of room to use up and down on the d-pad to switch between different actions. A magic menu of equipped magic, and ability menu of the equipped weapons and a summoning menu (depending on how robust summoning options are). The UI seems to have plenty of room for it, especially with the current menu being clearly labeled "ability". Would be easy to swap that to "magic" with a button press, and just use the menu setup already in place for abilities.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Alright so I have a question regarding Slash.

The way it sounds from your descriptions it seems very similar to the finisher from Kingdom Hearts 2. In that game however, it was necessary to use a finisher to defeat a boss as that was the only hit that could kill it once a boss' HP was at 1. Will the Slash function similarly for bosses?

 

[threelights]

Alright so I have a question regarding Slash.

The way it sounds from your descriptions it seems very similar to the finisher from Kingdom Hearts 2. In that game however, it was necessary to use a finisher to defeat a boss as that was the only hit that could kill it once a boss' HP was at 1. Will the Slash function similarly for bosses?

They haven't said it, but I would guess not. At least normal enemies are definitely not.

 

[Muffdraul]

Totally sounds like "bread" to me...

Or "bled".

Except it's "bareddo". If it was blade or bled (or bread) it should be bu, not ba. I know they can be inconsistent with transliterating loan words, but that's really really basic.

Edit: Maybe Bind Barred?

 

[Sanpunkan]

Basically every time Noctis lands a hit on an enemy the game pauses for a split second, I'm guessing this was done to give the combat some impact. The earlier combat footage we've gotten has been much smoother and didn't have any hit stun which has disappointed some the hit stun appearing in the demo that is. I think that's whats going on, someone is more than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously seeing the combat system is not the same as actually experiencing it, so maybe it'll be feel better once we can play the demo.

From the tone I'm guessing the general reaction has been that the hit-stun is a bad thing?

I like the hit-stun. It is satisfying when the hits connect in this way.

I do worry that the designers of FFXV might watch forums such as this one a little too closely. I hope the game doesn't have that feeling of being designed by committee because of it. Sometimes I prefer the Steve Jobsian approach of not always trusting players to know what they want. Sure general negativity needs to be addressed but this nitpicking of frame-by-frame stuff seems so superfluous to me.

 

[threelights]

Or "bled".

Except it's "barredo". If it was blade or bled (or bread) it should be bu, not ba. I know they can be inconsistent with transliterating loan words, but that's really really basic.

Edit: Maybe Bind Barred?

I swear the first thing I read with that was Bind Ballad. =P

I hope they do a literal translation for that skill, because I really want to know what it is.

From the tone I'm guessing the general reaction has been that the hit-stun is a bad thing?

I like the hit-stun. It is satisfying when the hits connect in this way.

I do worry that the designers of FFXV might watch forums such as this one a little too closely. I hope the game doesn't have that feeling of being designed by committee because of it. Sometimes I prefer the Steve Jobsian approach of not always trusting players to know what they want. Sure general negativity needs to be addressed but this nitpicking of frame-by-frame stuff seems so superfluous to me.

Indeed. That is currently the biggest issue imo. They took the right feedback for Type-0 HD, but I feel they will just take way too much for this.

Sometimes I just wish more people were like Kamiya in their approach to this stuff.

 

[raven777]

Alright so I have a question regarding Slash.

The way it sounds from your descriptions it seems very similar to the finisher from Kingdom Hearts 2. In that game however, it was necessary to use a finisher to defeat a boss as that was the only hit that could kill it once a boss' HP was at 1. Will the Slash function similarly for bosses?

It's different from KH2. In KH2, finisher was activated at the end of combo(or near end).

But here, Slash is automatically activated when the enemy's health is low enough for Slash to kill the enemy at one shot.

Let's say the enemy has 230 health left. Your break(opening attack) does 50 damage, Rush(mid combo) does 100, and Slash(end combo) does 200.

When enemy has 230 health left, you start with break which leaves 180 health left. The next move is automatically Slash, since Slash damage is 200 and will kill the enemy in one shot. So in this case, Rush is automatically skipped.

 

[Muffdraul]

I swear the first thing I read with that was Bind Ballad. =P

You may have nailed it.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

It's different from KH2. In KH2, finisher was activated at the end of combo(or near end).

But here, Slash is automatically activated when the enemy's health is low enough for Slash to kill the enemy at one shot.

Let's say the enemy has 230 health left. Your break(opening attack) does 50 damage, Rush(mid combo) does 100, and Slash(end combo) does 200.

When enemy has 230 health left, you start with break which leaves 180 health left. The next move is automatically Slash, since Slash damage is 200 and will kill the enemy in one shot. So in this case, Rush is automatically skipped.

I understand. Yet that still begs the question of Slash, being automatically selected as the finishing move, are necessary for killing bosses.Let's say a boss' health is low and Noctis is paralyzed, will a party member such as Prompto be able to take the boss out? There's a heavy emphasis on Noctis being the center of the combat so does that mean without him it is impossible to take out a boss like KH2?

 

[threelights]

I understand. Yet that still begs the question of Slash, being automatically selected as the finishing move, are necessary for killing bosses.Let's say a boss' health is low and Noctis is paralyzed, will a party member such as Prompto be able to take the boss out? There's a heavy emphasis on Noctis being the center of the combat so does that mean without him it is impossible to take out a boss like KH2?

They are actually trying to show how the focus is working with your party members, so I don't think that would be a reason for something like that.

Unless they want to add a bit of difficulty to the game, I suppose...

 

[KarasuEXE]

That is "Bureido", this is "Bureddo".
Also it's Prompto using the skill, that wouldn't make sense.

Oh, you're right.

 

[Harpuea]

So hyped.

I am fine with the deck system as it appears now as limiting as it seems. As matter of fact, I prefer it to be limiting. It facilitates strategy and party building.

I don't mind the Slash attack. If you think it is too slow to use a big weapon as the slash, just set the fastest weapon on the slash slot. Potentially you can set fast weapons for all purposes or vice versa with slow weapons. It is only a limitation when you want to have the ability to switch to fast, medium, or slow on the fly.

I can see why they want to use a deck system. There's raid, rush, counter, and slash and whatever actions they try to add too. If you try implement the freedom to use fast, medium, or slow weapons for each of those it will quickly becomes a big mess of buttons. Oh, don't forget there are different weapons for each speed too. Bloody sucking sword or high crit sword or something for example. What about the Spears? The Greatswords? Want to pick between 3 is a mess. it is like 4 x 4 x 4 combinations or more. Doable for a determined player? Sure, but hardly a simple system for a console game.

I don't like the idea of pausing and deck switching in battles and found games with it piss easy and boring eventually. In the game you already have the advantage of a magical inventory where you can pile a tons of stuff with you, adding the ability to pause and access it on the fly just takes all the thinking, planning, and strategy away. Don't forget you have 2 other dudes you can potentially change and customize on the fly.

Run into something that completely counters your cheesy party strategy and you can simply pause the game and change the load out of your entire party. So instead of building a balanced party to each with different builds to cover potential weaknesses you simply have to max/min the whole game. 3 dudes with Heavy attacks then to 3 dudes with fast attack with a pause of the button. Might as well give everyone the ability to use range weapons and destroy any trace of personality. FFXII original suffers from this problem of monotony. There's a reason why FFXII Zodiac job system is a better game than the original where everyone is the same.

It just breaks party balance. So I don't like the idea of deck switching. Building a balanced party with each person covering each other is more fun imo. Fits with the theme of the game where bros cover each other's back. Noctis doesn't need to be able to use everything all the time, his bro with the great sword or the gun is there for that.

Don't know how deeply you can customize your party, but I doubt they are just there and you cannot equip or customize them.

So hyped. . .

 

[Philippo]

So what everybody would like instead of final blow Slah?
What if it was another combo?

Can't tell if serious.. Don't dissapoint me Philippo!

Lol it was just a jab at people reporting feedbacks to him

Spoiler

and at how we are all "tabata delivers while nomura didn't

 

[ZenTzen]

From the tone I'm guessing the general reaction has been that the hit-stun is a bad thing?

I like the hit-stun. It is satisfying when the hits connect in this way.

I do worry that the designers of FFXV might watch forums such as this one a little too closely. I hope the game doesn't have that feeling of being designed by committee because of it. Sometimes I prefer the Steve Jobsian approach of not always trusting players to know what they want. Sure general negativity needs to be addressed but this nitpicking of frame-by-frame stuff seems so superfluous to me.

its not that the hitstun is a bad thing, its that its too much hitstun, every hit does huge amounts of it, and it makes the game look slower than it actually is

lets look at DMC4 for example, Nero also has hitstun in his moves, but only a little, wich still maintains a good speed while also making each move satisfying to hit on enemies

Hitstun in this game needs to be taken down a bit, at least 70%, and leave more hitstun for something like critical or special moves, not every single move with stupidly high amounts of hitstun

 

[threelights]

So what everybody would like instead of final blow Slah?
What if it was another combo?

It's fine the way it is. Better have the player position themselves for the normal combos than to always give them a tracking hit at the end of it.

Slash is meant to be a chasing hit for enemies that try to run at low HP.

People who think that games need 2/3 different attack buttons to be difficult should go and play something like Ys.

its not that the hitstun is a bad thing, its that its too much hitstun, every hit does huge amounts of it, and it makes the game look slower than it actually is

lets look at DMC4 for example, Nero also has hitstun in his moves, but only a little, wich still maintains a good speed while also making each move satisfying to hit on enemies

Hitstun in this game needs to be taken down a bit, at least 70%, and leave more hitstun for something like critical or special moves, not every single move with stupidly high amounts of hitstun

I don't know if you're talking about the hitstun or the slowdown.

Nero certainly has no slowdown on his hits.

 

[Harpuea]

Um . . . Why does everyone think FFXV is a game in the same genre as DMC? It is not. You have party members. Dante needs to switch weapons on the fly because he is fighting SOLO. Noctix have friends, he has bros to use other weapons for him. You can build him as a Rusher to wear down enemies and his friends with a heavy greatsword can be the Slasher to finish off enemies. Or make Noctics the Slasher and his friend the Rusher, etc. I already find the possibilities of party composition fun and interesting.

Trying to make FFXV a DMC-like game with insane arial combos and weapons switching is a bit unfair.

 

[Philippo]

It's fine the way it is. Better have the player position themselves for the normal combos than to always give them a tracking hit at the end of it.

Slash is meant to be a chasing hit for enemies that try to run at low HP.

People who think that games need 2/3 different attack buttons to be difficult should go and play something like Ys.

Yes, i actually like the way it is, really gives the feeling of using various weapons at once.

 

[ZenTzen]

I don't know if you're talking about the hitstun or the slowdown.

Nero certainly has no slowdown on his hits.

i'm talking about noctis attacks slowing stuff down every time he connects, and Nero does have a certain amount of it, its just enough to make moves very satisfying and less noticeable, but it certainly is there

 

[threelights]

Um . . . Why does everyone think FFXV is a game in the same genre as DMC? It is not. You have party members. Dante needs to switch weapons on the fly because he is fighting SOLO. Noctix have friends, he has bros to use other weapons for him. You can build him as a Rusher to wear down enemies and his friends with a heavy greatsword can be the Slasher to finish off enemies. Or make Noctics the Slasher and his friend the Rusher, etc. I already find the possibilities of party composition fun and interesting.

Trying to make FFXV a DMC-like game with insane arial combos and weapons switching is a bit unfair.

I like people saying that you should be able to switch between 5 weapons at will, when there are people who think Dante having 3 melee weapons at the same time in DMC4 was too much.

Either way, this game is not meant to have these kinds of combos, it was never the intention. It's an action RPG, not a character action game, you're not supposed to style on enemies.

i'm talking about noctis attacks slowing stuff down every time he connects, and Nero does have a certain amount of it, its just enough to make moves very satisfying and less noticeable, but it certainly is there

Nero only has slowdowns when you're revving. Noctis has slowdown on almost every attack.

 

[YRuafraid]

Has it been confirmed that the graphics have taken a slight hit from what we have seen on E3 2013? I notice some subtle differences and I can't decide what they are and which one I like better....

 

[threelights]

Has it been confirmed that the graphics have taken a slight hit from what we have seen on E3 2013? I notice some subtle differences and I can't decide what they are and which one I like better....

It currently looks better than E3 for sure (specially the character models and lighting).

Right now it looks worse than the walkthrough video though (despite the walkthrough video having problems with popup), but that's because the demo is poorly optimized so they can release it faster.

 

[YRuafraid]

It currently looks better than E3 for sure (specially the character models and lighting).

Right now it looks worse than the walkthrough video though (despite the walkthrough video having problems with popup), but that's because the demo is poorly optimized so they can release it faster.

Isn't "right now" the walkthrough video? Or is the demo going to look worse?

 

[Gbraga]

Wasn't it running on PC back then or something like that?

I think it looks better now overall, but the resolution was probably higher back then if it was indeed PC.

 

[ScriptedReality]

Noctis is already shaping up to be my favorite.

 

[wmlk]

Isn't "right now" the walkthrough video? Or is the demo going to look worse?

This is the walkthrough video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKHmB2zXcc

Pretty stunning other than the pop-in.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Where the heck is the English subtitled version SE

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Where the heck is the English subtitled version SE

Spoiler

March 17 when you play it

;D

 

[Philippo]

Has it been confirmed that the graphics have taken a slight hit from what we have seen on E3 2013? I notice some subtle differences and I can't decide what they are and which one I like better....

Upper gif is from TGS, with weather physics and more graphical features than what's currently in the demo.
The second one is from E3 2013, with some reused PS3 assets (and possibly some CG touched up assets). So weird you think it looks better.
By the release, expect it to look like the first gif (if not better).

 

[threelights]

Isn't "right now" the walkthrough video? Or is the demo going to look worse?

Nope. That one looked better, more vegetation, more shadows, but worse draw distance and more pop in.

Wasn't it running on PC back then or something like that?

I think it looks better now overall, but the resolution was probably higher back then if it was indeed PC.

It apparently was always PS4, but it probably was a little rough performance-wise. That's why they had to optimize it like that for the demo.


Also, aren't we getting a new ATR in a couple of days? We probably don't need an english version of this video specifically.

 

[Philippo]

Also, aren't we getting a new ATR in a couple of days? We probably don't need an english version of this video specifically.

I recall someone saying it was T0 only.

 

[threelights]

I recall someone saying it was T0 only.

T0 only or T0 focused?

I heard it was focused on T0, not necessarily that XV wouldn't be in.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

I recall someone saying it was T0 only.

SE says they'll talk a bit of FFXV and do some Q&A but it's mostly focused on Type-0

 

[wmlk]

T0 only or T0 focused?

I heard it was focused on T0, not necessarily that XV wouldn't be in.

Hazmer said we would see stuff we wouldn't wanna miss.

At this point, Type-0 is completely missable so it's definitely FFXV stuff.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Spoiler

March 17 when you play it

;D

Don't you mean when I watch it on YouTube

 

[Philippo]

T0 only or T0 focused?

I heard it was focused on T0, not necessarily that XV wouldn't be in.

No idea, hope you're right.

edit: nice

 

[threelights]

Hazmer said we would see stuff we wouldn't wanna miss.

At this point, Type-0 is completely missable so it's definitely FFXV stuff.

It's what I'm hoping too.

Actually, it's what I'm hoping because I don't want them to talk about more stuff about Type-0, the game is way better when you don't know everything before.

I'm also watching this mostly because I want to hear Tabata speaking in english.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

This is the walkthrough video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKHmB2zXcc

Pretty stunning other than the pop-in.

Is it possible that the final game will have this level of graphical fidelity ? I'd really like to hear informed opinions on this.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Is it possible that the final game will have this level of graphical fidelity ? I'd really like to hear experts opinions on this.

I'm an expert and I'm quite sure SE will shoot themselves in the foot

 

[threelights]

Is it possible that the final game will have this level of graphical fidelity ? I'd really like to hear experts opinions on this.

Of course. The current game isn't even running on the final version of their engine.

Not to say that optimization is one of the last stages of development, so that's why the demo doesn't look so good in comparison.

 

[ZenTzen]

Nero only has slowdowns when you're revving. Noctis has slowdown on almost every attack.

thats what i'm saying, and i dont think you understood what i'm trying to say, Noctis slowdown while hitting enemies, as i said, is too much, it makes it seem slower than it is, in comparison, Nero has slowdown while hitting enemies but its barely noticeable, and its not only in revving

 

[prwxv3]

No sure why some people want the game to be more like DMC. Making your sword deck is where the games depth is. KH BBS is has just as many attack methods as this but the deck system makes the games gameplay god tier.

 

[threelights]

No sure why some people want the game to be more like DMC. Making your sword deck is where the games depth is. KH BBS is has just as many attack methods as this but the deck system makes the games gameplay god tier.

And that game didn't even let you combo into your abilities, so it was not very smooth.

Here that seems way better.

I do wonder if we'll get crazy levels for the Phantom Sword though.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I just want to thank the OP for this thread. Really great work collecting, parsing and presenting this analysis.

 

[MultiJhonny]

And that game didn't even let you combo into your abilities, so it was not very smooth.

Here that seems way better.

I do wonder if we'll get crazy levels for the Phantom Sword though.

I bet we can. If we have to collect them it makes sense. Since in the high level E3 stuff it shows him with a bunch of phantom swords and in the demo walkthrough it only showed 3 or 4 surrounding him. Whether or not they add to it with each sword acquired or if they just have that many for the demo. I just want it to be March 17

 

[threelights]

I bet we can. If we have to collect them it makes sense. Since in the high level E3 stuff it shows him with a bunch of phantom swords and in the demo walkthrough it only showed 3 or 4 surrounding him. Whether or not they add to it with each sword acquired or if they just have that many for the demo. I just want it to be March 17

But are we getting stuff like Cyclone? Wingblade? Dark Impulse? Sky Climber?

Command Styles were awesome, if the Phantom Swords is half the fun of them than I'm good.

 

[Dark_castle]

And that game didn't even let you combo into your abilities, so it was not very smooth.

Here that seems way better.

I do wonder if we'll get crazy levels for the Phantom Sword though.

I think XV to be kinda like a mix of KH2 and BBS.

Magic, XV will be like KH2, shortcut+face button, friendly for combo purpose.
Abilities, XV will be like BBS with its command deck abilities, which are not so much built for combo chaining, as they do their own thing.

I was thinking Phantom Sword as an equivalent to Sora's Limit Form.

 

[MultiJhonny]

But are we getting stuff like Cyclone? Wingblade? Dark Impulse? Sky Climber?

Command Styles were awesome, if the Phantom Swords is half the fun of them than I'm good.

I guess we will see, but I doubt we will get that in the demo though even we get the lower leveled phantom swords. But I guess we might get more phantom sword info after the demo or during E3

 

[threelights]

I think XV to be kinda like a mix of KH2 and BBS.

Magic, XV will be like KH2, shortcut+face button, friendly for combo purpose.
Abilities, XV will be like BBS with its command deck abilities, which are not so much built for combo chaining, as they do their own thing.

I was thinking Phantom Sword as an equivalent to Sora's Limit Form.

I wonder how the magic will be too.

I actually am more interested in how the magic system will work, since they don't use MP.

Maybe an Ability gauge like Type-0? But for Magic...

I guess we will see, but I doubt we will get that in the demo though even we get the lower leveled phantom swords. But I guess we might get more phantom sword info after the demo or during E3

Yeah, we definitely won't see that before the game comes out.

But I actually don't expect that much from the Phantom Swords. I expect you to get stronger, get more combos and maybe get some special stuff (juggling enemies?)

 

[MultiJhonny]

I wonder how the magic will be too.

I actually am more interested in how the magic system will work, since they don't use MP.

Maybe an Ability gauge like Type-0? But for Magic...


Yeah, we definitely won't see that before the game comes out.

But I actually don't expect that much from the Phantom Swords. I expect you to get stronger, get more combos and maybe get some special stuff (juggling enemies?)

Don't forget blocking bullets and stuff. Probably beefs up your DEF a ton or makes you temporarily invincible like we see in the early CG trailers. Also the building warps that we see done in the E3 demo as well, with the soldiers on them.